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Perth
18-11-2015, 00:22
We all know that Terminators can be teleported, as that's one of their signature abilities, but what else can the Imperium beam down?

From Forgeworld, we have a few different cases of Marines in regular power armor being teleported. 30k Alpha Legion has a character (Dynat) that can make an infantry unit teleport in, while 40k has Lieutenant Commander Anton Narvaez from the Badab stuff that can teleport Tacs, Devs, and Sternguard. Grey Knights also apparently can teleport short ranges, and don't even need a ship to do it.

I'm not that versed in the background material of 30-40k, are there any other instances of teleportation by non-Terminators?

mightymconeshot
18-11-2015, 00:44
In a space wolves novel they get teleported in power armor. In a Cain novel one of the bad guys has a displacement fields that always teleports him to the side when attacked. Big part of Necrons is their teleport out.
Orks have their tellyporta tech. In the Rogue Trader RPG there is no limit on what can be transported.

TheSaylesMan
18-11-2015, 01:33
The Rogue Trader RPG includes a ship component called a Teleportarium which allows the ability to send your men direction on board the enemy vessel. Fantasy Flight Games material is always of questionable canon but it does imply that a sophisticated enough teleportation device can send anything through the Warp safely. Keep in mind that the component is listed as Archeotech and beyond the means of the Mechanicus to reproduce. Whether that is an implication that Imperial teleportation tech is exceeding rare or that this particular item is of a grade higher than what the Imperium normally uses is unknown. I do know there is no lower grade teleportation platform listed in any other books.

Leftenant Gashrog
18-11-2015, 02:31
In Battlefleet Gothic *any* capital ship (including Imperial Navy vessels with no Space Marines on board) can make teleport attacks, escorts cannot but the primary reason given is that 'only the largest ships have the teleport capacity to move enough men onto their target to inflict sufficient damage'.

The Black Shield
18-11-2015, 03:44
In the book Iron Hands there is a lost Titan Legion fortress that has a teleporter large enough to teleport an Emperor Titan. This Titan Legion was lost whole-sale either before the Heresy or shortly after.

ChaosTicket
18-11-2015, 05:50
Generally speaking teleporters are one of the arcane technologies in the Imperium that is unstable. Regular use is unlikely as these arent as common use as Star Trek transporter pads. Space marines veterans are often the only ones that could be effective enough to risk being phased into rocks or lost through a malfunction. Its also only a few Techmarines of Adeptus Mechanicus that can actually maintain and operate them.

There isnt alot of information on them, due to their rarity. In theory a teleporter could transport anything up to a certain size. The problem is how to get lost technology large enough to transport something like a tank. Using Thunderhawks or drop pods is a much less risky option which should tell you alot.

Lord Damocles
18-11-2015, 07:05
The first Soul Drinkers novel has teleporting techpriests.

Most of the Dawn of War games feature personal teleporter packs, usable by power armoured Marines (such technology being more commonly used by the Blood Ravens than most other Chapters apparently).

Kal Jericho: Above and Beyond featured a variety of unprotected humans being teleported from a space hulk to a nearby Imperial ship.

The 4th ed. Chapter Approved rules for Deathwatch offered teleportation as one explanation for their having the Deep Strike rule.

Snake Tortoise
18-11-2015, 07:22
Regular teleporter devices on ships don't have any kind of recall ability, do they? A unit of terminators being teleported from a ship down to the surface of a planet will have to use conventional means (another ship) to get back to their original ship, right?

MarkNorfolk
18-11-2015, 08:35
I've never seen a reference of teleporters being used as a recall device (making their use in Battlefleet Gothic either a suicide run or expecting/hoping the attackers can use the target's lifeboats). I can't quote any references I'm afraid but what I've picked up about Imperial teleporters from various novels and fluff pieces in rulebooks and White Dwarf...

They are big and dangerous - the teleport chamber for 5 terminators was the size of a warehouse and the tech-priest was behind a protective barrier
They are one-way
They don't scramble and reassemble the molecules - the teleportees are projected through the warp to the destination point

Maybe terminators are the ones worth risking because of the armour is more protective against warp threats mid-teleport. They do have a piece of the Emperor's own armour embedded in the Terminatus-crux on the sholuder pad (post HH of course).

Cheers
Mark

Lord Damocles
18-11-2015, 10:26
Regular teleporter devices on ships don't have any kind of recall ability, do they?

I've never seen a reference of teleporters being used as a recall device
I gave just such an example above - Kal Jericho: Above and Beyond (part 9) has a Deathwatch ship teleport three humans, a Kroot, and a robot dog (...yeah really) from a space hulk, using a teleport homer.

MarkNorfolk
18-11-2015, 10:32
I gave just such an example above - Kal Jericho: Above and Beyond (part 9) has a Deathwatch ship teleport three humans, a Kroot, and a robot dog (...yeah really) from a space hulk, using a teleport homer.

D'oh. Oh well - I stand corrected.

=Angel=
18-11-2015, 10:48
Anyone and anything can be teleported.
The reason it doesn't happen that often is that there is a risk involved (you are pushing people through hell protected by a thin tube of energy) and the technology is rare(how rare depends on the writer)
The other reason is that there is a huge tactical difference between teleporting 5 terminators and 5 humans behind or even into the midst of enemy lines.
The bright light and sound (not to mention energy signature) of teleporting let the enemy know you are there.
The Terminators will likely survive the enemy's reaction and go on to wreak havoc as the enemy turns to deal with heavily armoured juggernauts in their midst.
The humans would be wiped out in a hail of bullets/shurikens/green beams/living ammunition and the enemy would go right back to what it was doing.

And yes, teleportation can be used as a recall- you'd usually do this as an extraction from danger as if you had the area secured, why wouldn't you just wait an hour for a transport to pick you up rather than risk another journey through hell?

Snake Tortoise
18-11-2015, 11:38
Thanks for the responses, I was thinking of making a thread to ask that very question a while ago (teleport recalling)

So how would recalling work? I understand an astropath is needed for teleportation in the first place. Would the point of insertion be used for returning, or could it happen in a different location? Would a physical beacon be necessary or can the astropath 'see' the warp signature of whoever needs... collecting?

I'm imagining the tech priest prepares the teleportarium and an astropath reaches out to the coordinates of extraction where the subjects will be assembled, then the process happens again but the subjects are dragged back to the ship. Is that somewhat how it goes?

Any input would be appreciated. I read up on teleportation on Lexicanum a few months ago but it didn't explain the process in much detail

mightymconeshot
19-11-2015, 02:03
An early space wolf novel has them being extracted by teleport. They are trapped on a building top fighting an ork warboss and storm boyz. They have to be near a teleport homer and are being completely overwhelmed hence the use to bring them by teleport. I don't remember it exactly or I would give the details.

insectum7
19-11-2015, 17:54
One of the biggest example of mass recall that I know of is in the Dark Eldar 5th Ed. book. Space Marines are "lured" into an assault on Commoragh by a rival faction to Vect. I think hundreds of Space Marines rampage their way through DE territory, and then are teleported back to the Space Marine vessels after leaving Vect's rival in ruin, and bug out. Possibly hundreds of Space Marines teleported back to multiple ships, but someone with the codex might have more specific numbers.

Talon of Anathrax
19-11-2015, 19:44
In the book Iron Hands there is a lost Titan Legion fortress that has a teleporter large enough to teleport an Emperor Titan. This Titan Legion was lost whole-sale either before the Heresy or shortly after.
Nowadays, the Forge World of Lucius (the one built as a Dyson sphere around the artificial star) has enough power to teleport its Titan legions into battle.

The Black Shield
19-11-2015, 21:07
Commissar Cain is teleported off a Space Hulk in the Ciaphas Cain novels.

Romanov77
19-11-2015, 21:49
How about teleporting cyclonic warheads?

Or even simple massive explosive charges?


That could really ruin someone's day.

ChaosTicket
20-11-2015, 01:47
Would you really want to risk teleporting something that can destroy a planet using an unstable and arcane technology with short range?

Romanov77
20-11-2015, 22:15
Would you really want to risk teleporting something that can destroy a planet using an unstable and arcane technology with short range?

Sounds like a gamble that plenty of Warhammer 4k characters and organizations would take.

The Navy could teleport nukes on enemy ships, the Guard could teleport massive quantities of explosives in the impenetrable enemy fortress...


And how about teleporting stuff away? Like teleporting enemy ships' bridge crew into the void?

Formerly Wu
21-11-2015, 18:30
The Navy could teleport nukes on enemy ships, the Guard could teleport massive quantities of explosives in the impenetrable enemy fortress...
The Great Eagles law: if the proposed solution to a narrative irrationality can be finished with the phrase "...but that would make things boring," then something will exist in the setting to prevent it from happening.

So, something something void shields, too unreliable, desperation tactic, etc.


And how about teleporting stuff away? Like teleporting enemy ships' bridge crew into the void?
My understanding is you need a teleport beacon- or some other method of reliable locking on- in order to teleport distant objects.

Lord Damocles
21-11-2015, 18:53
So, something something void shields, too unreliable, desperation tactic, etc.
Indeed.

'...active shields interfere with the teleport beams, so such attacks can only be made against an enemy whose shields have been knocked down.'
Battlefleet Gothic rulebook, pg.35

ChaosTicket
21-11-2015, 21:38
Teleportation technology is pretty rare. For Imperials its regarded as one of the "lost technologies". Eldar use stable webway portals. Orks have their own Tellyportas which are of course unstable, but unlike the Imperials' version Orks can keep producing new tellyportas. Its a shame that there arent any ork units that can really use it.

Romanov77
22-11-2015, 12:16
Indeed.

'...active shields interfere with the teleport beams, so such attacks can only be made against an enemy whose shields have been knocked down.'
Battlefleet Gothic rulebook, pg.35

So, knock down enemy shields, teleport a giant warhead near the reactor core, watch the enemy ship turning supernova and swallowing nearby enemy vessels.

Sounds better than knocking down enemy shields and keep pounding it until it is a non-threatening hulk.


I think we require a more specific "something something science something tachyon flux something" to make this tactic non viable.

Something like teleporting interfering badly with large masses of explosives (but apparently it CAN teleport small explosives like stormbolter bolts and grenades/meltas).

Lupe
22-11-2015, 13:56
So, knock down enemy shields, teleport a giant warhead near the reactor core, watch the enemy ship turning supernova and swallowing nearby enemy vessels.

Sounds better than knocking down enemy shields and keep pounding it until it is a non-threatening hulk.

A non-threatening hulk that you could potentially reuse or salvage, though.

Sai-Lauren
22-11-2015, 14:59
In a Cain novel one of the bad guys has a displacement fields that always teleports him to the side when attacked.
Amberley Vail has one as well.


So, knock down enemy shields, teleport a giant warhead near the reactor core, watch the enemy ship turning supernova and swallowing nearby enemy vessels.

Sounds better than knocking down enemy shields and keep pounding it until it is a non-threatening hulk.


I think we require a more specific "something something science something tachyon flux something" to make this tactic non viable.

Something like teleporting interfering badly with large masses of explosives (but apparently it CAN teleport small explosives like stormbolter bolts and grenades/meltas).
Ok, how about...
Teleportation potentially interferes with electronic or biological control systems, which means it's not a guaranteed success, the energy requirements to teleport something increase exponentially with the size/mass of the object, vessels have countermeasures to stop exactly that, or it's entirely possible, but unless you're transporting something the size of a nova cannon warhead, the vessels internal structure and redundant systems can cope with it.

Romanov77
22-11-2015, 16:48
But do we really need to teleport huge explosives to blow up ships?

Consider the mass of a full Terminator squad, in high explosive material. Wouldn't that be enough to cause a catastrophic reactor failure if teleported in the right spot?

Anyway, anything we write is pure conjecture.
I was just imagining the the Death Star reactor going critical with a single tiny missile.

About the salvage thing, I don't think the Imperium is into salvaging, especially chaos or bizarre xenos vessels.
Also, I don't think that in big naval engagements captains would be concerned about salvaging the enemy fleet.

Retrospectus
22-11-2015, 17:07
So, knock down enemy shields, teleport a giant warhead near the reactor core, watch the enemy ship turning supernova and swallowing nearby enemy vessels.

Sounds better than knocking down enemy shields and keep pounding it until it is a non-threatening hulk.


I think we require a more specific "something something science something tachyon flux something" to make this tactic non viable.

Something like teleporting interfering badly with large masses of explosives (but apparently it CAN teleport small explosives like stormbolter bolts and grenades/meltas).

consider how much firepower even the smaller imperial capital ships carry, on the one hand you get the shields down and then through the complicated procedure of teleporting (which fluff suggests is finicky and drains power, not to mention the difficulty of pinpointing an open space large enough to recieve your warhead then teleporting with enough precision to actually get there in one piece all the while your ships are moving immensely fast relative to each other and the enemy is half a solar system away shooting at you) then hoping the teleport can even make it through hundreds of metres of armour and other interferences.

or you could just hit it with another broadside or hail of torpedoes. seeing as (due to the power limits on the size of the payload) your ship carries far more destructive weapons than whatever bomb you could feasibly teleport.
it's kind of like the whole "rock are not free" thing where using asteroids as orbital bombardment was seen as pointless because the ships guns did the job quicker, cheaper and far more efficiently. same principle applies here, just shoot the guy

Formerly Wu
23-11-2015, 17:23
consider how much firepower even the smaller imperial capital ships carry, on the one hand you get the shields down and then through the complicated procedure of teleporting (which fluff suggests is finicky and drains power, not to mention the difficulty of pinpointing an open space large enough to recieve your warhead then teleporting with enough precision to actually get there in one piece all the while your ships are moving immensely fast relative to each other and the enemy is half a solar system away shooting at you) then hoping the teleport can even make it through hundreds of metres of armour and other interferences.

or you could just hit it with another broadside or hail of torpedoes. seeing as (due to the power limits on the size of the payload) your ship carries far more destructive weapons than whatever bomb you could feasibly teleport.
it's kind of like the whole "rock are not free" thing where using asteroids as orbital bombardment was seen as pointless because the ships guns did the job quicker, cheaper and far more efficiently. same principle applies here, just shoot the guy
Also a reasonable answer. The Imperium is anything but averse to using the brute force method. Anything valuable enough to require a finicky tactic like a teleported explosive is generally either big enough to soak it, too important to risk that kind of indiscriminate damage on, or small enough that it's easier to just keep shooting.

Theocracity
23-11-2015, 17:36
Also a reasonable answer. The Imperium is anything but averse to using the brute force method. Anything valuable enough to require a finicky tactic like a teleported explosive is generally either big enough to soak it, too important to risk that kind of indiscriminate damage on, or small enough that it's easier to just keep shooting.

You also have to consider how that tactic would go over with the Techpriest in charge of one of these priceless teleportariums.

"So we'll cart one of our high yield explosive devices in there, arm it, and then you'll..."

"No."

ChaosTicket
23-11-2015, 19:59
Well the thing is that any explosive worth teleporting would have to be massive in size and explosive power. Plasma torpedoes are already in the megaton range making them as powerful as strategic nuclear warheads. Now consider that Plasma torpedoes can be launched long distances, while teleporters are relatively short ranged.

Still Standing
24-11-2015, 12:04
You have to drop your own shields to teleport. Additionally, why wouldn't everything important within a ship have it's own localised Voids and Gellar fields that are active during battle?

Formerly Wu
24-11-2015, 16:29
You also have to consider how that tactic would go over with the Techpriest in charge of one of these priceless teleportariums.

"So we'll cart one of our high yield explosive devices in there, arm it, and then you'll..."

"No."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJXYMDu6dpY

=Angel=
26-11-2015, 20:36
The Great Eagles law: if the proposed solution to a narrative irrationality can be finished with the phrase "...but that would make things boring," then something will exist in the setting to prevent it from happening.

So, something something void shields, too unreliable, desperation tactic, etc.


This is the factor forever lacking in Trek v 'x' discussions.
The fact that you, armchair general, would simply beam the Jedi/Space Marine boarding team into the void does not mean renowned diplomat and Flag Admiral Pierre-Marc Lefranc has that option at his disposal.

Spiney Norman
27-11-2015, 21:45
So, knock down enemy shields, teleport a giant warhead near the reactor core, watch the enemy ship turning supernova and swallowing nearby enemy vessels.

Sounds better than knocking down enemy shields and keep pounding it until it is a non-threatening hulk.


I think we require a more specific "something something science something tachyon flux something" to make this tactic non viable.

Something like teleporting interfering badly with large masses of explosives (but apparently it CAN teleport small explosives like stormbolter bolts and grenades/meltas).

Presumably because knocking down the enemy ship's shields wouldn't be enough, you'd also have to lower your own shields to teleport something between the two locations, and if it was a choice between using lance batteries to carve the ship apart whilst keeping my shields up and lowering my shields to teleport a bomb into their engine room I know which I'd choose (esp if there were other enemy ships around).

Not to mention that if you lowered your shields to beam a cyclonic torpedo into your enemy's engine room you might find someone else takes advantage to those downed shields to do the same to you, or just hits you with lance batteries while your pants are down

daveNYC
07-12-2015, 20:15
There's a couple of outs regarding the dropping of your own shields to teleport something. One is that you control the timing and you might be able to drop and raise the shields quickly enough that other ships can't react and return fire. The other is that the ship's teleporter could be configured to counteract the interference from it's own shields, since it's harmonics and frequencies and blah blah blah are known to the tech priests involved.

And Eldar do have teleporters. Warp spiders and Autarch wargear.

WarsmithGarathor94
07-12-2015, 22:30
The Grey Knights can probably teleport alot especially due to them being able to use sorcery without becoming tainted

bittick
09-12-2015, 18:53
So, knock down enemy shields, teleport a giant warhead near the reactor core, watch the enemy ship turning supernova and swallowing nearby enemy vessels.

Sounds better than knocking down enemy shields and keep pounding it until it is a non-threatening hulk.


I think we require a more specific "something something science something tachyon flux something" to make this tactic non viable.

Something like teleporting interfering badly with large masses of explosives (but apparently it CAN teleport small explosives like stormbolter bolts and grenades/meltas).

If their shields are down, why not just shoot them with that giant warhead?

Lupe
09-12-2015, 19:20
If their shields are down, why not just shoot them with that giant warhead?

Travel times for subsonic warheads capable of damaging ships would probably exceed the downtime of the shields for the duration of a teleport procedure, I guess...

Matthueycamo
10-12-2015, 00:04
Why would you not just use your lance weaponry in that situation?

Lupe
10-12-2015, 16:18
Why would you not just use your lance weaponry in that situation?

You could, I suppose, but I'd guess the window would still be pretty narrow. Maybe a burst or two? We're talking about a less than half a minute worth of time for the teleport process, plus however long it would take for the shield generators to get the shields back online.

But, now that I think about it, I guess that's an interesting point. I don't think I've seen any mention of how long it takes to raise the shields on a spaceship. I mean, would it be more like restarting your computer (shut down, reinitialize hardware, boot up the software, log in) or more like flicking the light switch on and off? Or like pausing a youtube video?

Theocracity
10-12-2015, 16:41
You could, I suppose, but I'd guess the window would still be pretty narrow. Maybe a burst or two? We're talking about a less than half a minute worth of time for the teleport process, plus however long it would take for the shield generators to get the shields back online.

But, now that I think about it, I guess that's an interesting point. I don't think I've seen any mention of how long it takes to raise the shields on a spaceship. I mean, would it be more like restarting your computer (shut down, reinitialize hardware, boot up the software, log in) or more like flicking the light switch on and off? Or like pausing a youtube video?

Considering that we're dealing with a complicated piece of technology, I wouldn't be surprised if there could be a whole ritual involved in the process. Incense, prayers, a rote performance to appease the machine spirits, etc.

Lupe
10-12-2015, 17:00
Considering that we're dealing with a complicated piece of technology, I wouldn't be surprised if there could be a whole ritual involved in the process. Incense, prayers, a rote performance to appease the machine spirits, etc.

Yeah, that's the thing. It could even be that. Or it could be as fast as the flick of a switch. Or it could be either and anything in between, on a case-by-case basis. The Imperium is hardly a consistent entitiy. In fact, the same could be said for their Chaos counterparts.

Now that I think about it, I like the case-by-case option best.

Why? Because even in the case where most ship crews resort to pointless rituals that leave them exposed for far longer than necessary, no shipmaster worth their salt is going to exploit that enemy weakness because of the sizable minority of pragmatists who skip the prayers and just flick the switch makes it impossible to know for sure what the result will be.

Sai-Lauren
10-12-2015, 18:29
Another factor to consider is the skill of the operator - your average chapter serf might be able to get Terminators across with very little ceremony, but to teleport a live warhead that's only a few seconds away from detonation (to prevent it being disarmed or teleported back at you) may need the skills of a very high level AM Magos, who'll probably want several hours of ritual, annointing with oils, incense and everything else before they'll even consider it.

Still Standing
10-12-2015, 19:17
When I imagine Void Shields going down due to enemy action I think of explosions, entire sections being vented to space, thousands of dead workers. We're talking serious amounts of energy, and there is nowhere to earth it to. When a Void Shield goes down I imagine there are fairly serious repairs happening.

DYoung
11-12-2015, 03:33
In one of the Horus Heresy novels a ship fires a spread of warheads that close with the enemy by making a series of 'short' teleport jumps hundreds (thousands?) of kilometres in distance. It's implied that this is pretty normal for torpedoes in the 31st millennium.

Matthueycamo
11-12-2015, 05:56
You could, I suppose, but I'd guess the window would still be pretty narrow. Maybe a burst or two? We're talking about a less than half a minute worth of time for the teleport process, plus however long it would take for the shield generators to get the shields back online.

But, now that I think about it, I guess that's an interesting point. I don't think I've seen any mention of how long it takes to raise the shields on a spaceship. I mean, would it be more like restarting your computer (shut down, reinitialize hardware, boot up the software, log in) or more like flicking the light switch on and off? Or like pausing a youtube video?

With the huge amounts of power involved and the fact you just directed it to the teleportation room I doubt it's instant. The fact it's standing orders to keep shields at 50% at all times (presumably with the odd operational exception) in the Imperial Navy and that this rarely happens with shields kept at a minimum instead because captains don't like the power drain probably tells us that's it's not instant or an easy thing to use on a device that sucks in all your power and then immediately go to full power in another thing that takes a great deal of power to begin with. You will need to also match generation to use to keep things stable and in control meaning things can't be instant otherwise things like frequency and overloading become a problem. They also have to direct this power between shields, weapons systems, engines and other ships systems during battle. It's quite possible in battle even with shields off it's not possible to direct enough power to make a successful teleportation with some ships because of the other systems that need it that you might normally turn off when teleporting something. So you might need to shut down other systems too.

Any one of those things go wrong with your shields down in the middle of a fleet action and you are probably totally screwed. Making it a risk all but the most foolhardy Captain would be unwilling to take considering unless you get a beacon in place first actually hitting the intended target is a bit of a gamble. And getting the beacon in place means you have to first board the vessel you intend to hit. Meaning the guys you sent there to place the beacon just went on a suicide run. Not particularly great for moral or efficiency seeing as there is no guarantee they can get to the right place to put the beacon down. So to do it reliably you first himave to board a ship and if you do that why not just melta bomb the critical systems effectively neutralising the ship instead of going through the trouble of teleporting a massive warhead and killing all your guys on the ship too? I know the Imperium like to sometimes throw men at problems but there is a difference between "Charge that position head on" and "hey guys place this beacon and by the way you aren't coming back."

Space Marines are interesting in this regard though I would not be surprised that with their role their ships are much more suited to using teleportation in a fleet action with regards to power needs though it still requires a boarding action first to allow the terminators to get into the action where you want them and not get split up. And Space Marines defo would not send their guys on a suicide mission as standard practice. Though they probably would as a last resort when they are going to be killed anyway. However this situation of deciding how best to finish off the enemy is not a last resort. Terminators are probably the only ones that can maybe actually do it, You breach the ship and place a beacon, get the Terminators in. They then fight to the place you need to hit to place the beacon for the warhead meanwhile the ordinary marines get back in their craft and return to your ship. You then teleport the warhead in, the Terminators set it and just before it goes off you teleport them away. Still a process that takes a lot longer than 30 seconds though.

=Angel=
11-12-2015, 07:56
Making it a risk all but the most foolhardy Captain would be unwilling to take considering unless you get a beacon in place first actually hitting the intended target is a bit of a gamble. And getting the beacon in place means you have to first board the vessel you intend to hit. Meaning the guys you sent there to place the beacon just went on a suicide run.

But that's not what we see at all. In Gothic there are no penalties to a teleport attack, whilst there are penalties to regular boarding actions (the enemy ship might launch counter boarders and actually overwhelm YOUR ship if things go wrong)
I reckon voidshields keep things out, not in. I don't know of any 40k source where shields have to be dropped to either insert or recover a team by teleportation. If your voidshields go down you are vulnerable to both enemy fire and teleport attacks.

Check Bloodquest where they teleport directly onto a traitor bridge, dakka the captain and beam out. They also beam onto an Ork vessel and fight their way to the throne room.

They do this without any preparation time or sending of beacons.

Similarly the Mechanicum teleport straight to a relic as soon as the Soul Drinkers had secured the area.

Matthueycamo
11-12-2015, 12:46
That may well be what might be called plot armour. If you want to reliably teleport 99% of the time then you need a homer where you are going. It's what the terminator suits lock on to to make them so accurate. If you don't have the homer in place there is a realistic chance of being scattered especially if your astropath is not the greatest. The lead protagonist teleporting to where the plot needs him to be is not representative of the general outcomes across thousands of teleportations in such circumstances.

I can think of one, after the Battle for Terra when Sanguinius is killed. Horus orders the void shields of his ship down to entice the Emperor to fight him. Why would he do this if void shields did not affect teleportation? There would be no extra incentive to try and go kill him.

Just because there aren't does not mean it's because it's accurate representation of the fluff, battle fleet Gothic is a game, it has to be balanced to work. In fluff 50 space marines would absolutely annihilate 150 guardsmen but on the table top the Guard have a chance. They both move the same distance yet space marines are supposed to be able to run stupidly fast in power armour, faster than a normal man. That's not reflected in the game rules, it's just 6 inch move plus a D6 run roll if you want it for both. There are many instances where rules and fluff don't go totally together. The game has to be somewhat balanced. Building a game and building a game universe are somewhat different.

TheRedAngel
11-12-2015, 13:26
But, now that I think about it, I guess that's an interesting point. I don't think I've seen any mention of how long it takes to raise the shields on a spaceship. I mean, would it be more like restarting your computer (shut down, reinitialize hardware, boot up the software, log in) or more like flicking the light switch on and off? Or like pausing a youtube video?

In "Master of Sanctity" the Dark Angels estimate it will take the enemy heavy cruiser to raise its shields again "four to seven minutes" after they have been knocked down.
The estimate wasn't that far off as the Marines manage to teleport back within four and a half minutes, only able to do so because the cruisers shields are not yet up (which also implies that you can't being "teleported out" through raised shields (at least not the enemies)).

On the other hand the DA trilogy makes quite a few statments concering the fluff which are somewhere between bold and very strange.

Snake Tortoise
11-12-2015, 16:23
In "Master of Sanctity" the Dark Angels estimate it will take the enemy heavy cruiser to raise its shields again "four to seven minutes" after they have been knocked down.
The estimate wasn't that far off as the Marines manage to teleport back within four and a half minutes, only able to do so because the cruisers shields are not yet up (which also implies that you can't being "teleported out" through raised shields (at least not the enemies)).

On the other hand the DA trilogy makes quite a few statments concering the fluff which are somewhere between bold and very strange.

I like this interpretation the most. It seems like it would be a good way to prevent people teleporting around willy-nilly, and since buildings can have void shields too means terminators can't always be beamed straight into the enemy throne room to finish a story on page 4

Sai-Lauren
11-12-2015, 16:35
In one of the Horus Heresy novels a ship fires a spread of warheads that close with the enemy by making a series of 'short' teleport jumps hundreds (thousands?) of kilometres in distance. It's implied that this is pretty normal for torpedoes in the 31st millennium.
Don't know about torpedoes, but Warp missiles in the 1st edition Adeptus Titanicus game did exactly that to skip past a Titans void shields.

Romanov77
11-12-2015, 23:39
Ignoring the many valid arguments posted by you guys, just imagine Horus' face if after killing Sanguinius and lowering the shields he would have been suddenly staring at a freshly teleported cyclonic warhead with a couple of seconds left on its countdown...

ChaosTicket
12-12-2015, 00:25
Yeah. use a planet killing weapon on Terra just so you can imagine what Horus's face world be like...just before he gets warped away by the Chaos Gods and you killed the emperor of Mankind.

See thats the stupid thinking. If you are in range to teleport anything then you are in range to fire space ship guns, so there is no reason to use unstable teleportation which is very likely to activate whatever explosives you want to send even if you can actually aim at a moving target while youre also moving. This isnt Star Trek where theres a 99.9% chance of success so everyone is teleporting everything.

Romanov77
12-12-2015, 11:48
Dude relax, it was just a joke.

Also, the warhead would explode in orbit, not on the surface of Terra.
Considering that the planet was already reduced to molten slag by the traitors' fleet, I suppose collateral damage would be minimal.

The Emperor could have stayed comfortably on Terra in his underground sanctum, using his super warp powers to ensure correct teleportation of the warhead.

Yes maybe Horus might have survived that because he had fabulous super warp powers too. Yet, it would have be fun.
I would also have added a giant ACME anvil to teleport right on top of Horus throne, for additional lulz.

Matthueycamo
13-12-2015, 00:35
Ignoring the many valid arguments posted by you guys, just imagine Horus' face if after killing Sanguinius and lowering the shields he would have been suddenly staring at a freshly teleported cyclonic warhead with a couple of seconds left on its countdown...

Hahaha, that would be pretty funny.

ChaosTicket
13-12-2015, 03:05
Warhammer 40,000 is more hard-science-fiction than soft. Things taken for granted in shows in Star Trek are more realistically very difficult to do. Energy Shields require massive reactors, teleportation requires a great deal of energy and is imprecise in a constantly moving universe. "The notion of [teleportation] is like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse"

You have people loading nuclear...ahem plasma warheaded missiles by hand and colossal cannons aimed by manual gunsights. So all that crap about super-precise teleportation is a load of crap. Doing it using planet-killing weapons is stupid as you would be in range of the effect or if you use something smaller scale then its ineffective because the target is built to withstand external and internal damage of that scale anytime.

In other words, no magic teleporting bombs and saving the universe. You dont get a movie Deus Ex Machina to save you.

Romanov77
13-12-2015, 13:07
Unless archeotech wizardry or warp powers come into play.

None can stop a BL author from coming up with a magic archeotech teleportarium array that can bypass shields and that it is so reliable that can teleport artificially made kidney stones inside the urinary tract of the crewmen manning enemy ships at hundreds of kilometers.

Still Standing
13-12-2015, 14:02
Unless archeotech wizardry or warp powers come into play.

None can stop a BL author from coming up with a magic archeotech teleportarium array that can bypass shields and that it is so reliable that can teleport artificially made kidney stones inside the urinary tract of the crewmen manning enemy ships at hundreds of kilometers.

C.S. Goto no longer writes for Black Library.

ChaosTicket
13-12-2015, 14:54
Some authors are bloody idiots. One one hand I praise how authors have shaped up the warhammer universe more than Games-workshop itself, but sometimes authors are just bad.

Razios
15-12-2015, 05:52
Warhammer 40,000 is more hard-science-fiction than soft. Things taken for granted in shows in Star Trek are more realistically very difficult to do. Energy Shields require massive reactors, teleportation requires a great deal of energy and is imprecise in a constantly moving universe. "The notion of [teleportation] is like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse"


it depends, Warhammer sciene is mosly the bellisarius maxism(dony look to hard in this thing) and rule of cool, but there is something(like how mindblowing big is galaxy spanning empire and how sheer hard it is)