PDA

View Full Version : Slaves of Darkness bundle



Thane Godri Thunderbrand
22-12-2015, 19:49
I've been thinking about starting a small chaos army (For Warhammer, not AoS), and since its a decent deal, I'll probably buy the Slaves of Darkness Bundle. It comes with a sorcerer, 5 chaos knights, 12 warriors, and chariot. My brother plays an Orc (or Orruk) army, so what would be the best way build my warriors to get the most out of this army? Shields and hand weapons for the WoC? Have the Chaos Lord on the chariot or on foot? Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

Vulgarsty
22-12-2015, 23:59
Well i'd almost always go halberds and almost never go gw (particularly if you wanted to field them as chosen)

Sword and board makes tzeencth hard to shift, and if you can make sword and board nurgle cause fear successfully then they could be almost impossible to shift. 2 hand weapons can make for a choppy khornate mob, particularly in the watchtower scenario with a flaming banner. I run my slaanesh with halberds and no shields. Its not like they can be panicked on the way in.

Drakkar du Chaos
23-12-2015, 01:11
Weapons...
Shield and Halberd is the way to go for warriors. Mandatory against elves.

Mark of Chaos...
Unmarked if you are going to play small games.
Khorne have the best damage output but it's not beginner friendly and with a shield you lost the parry save... useful against anybody, best against undead.
Tzeentch stack with the parry save from your shield and give more protection against dakka armies like dwarves or empire.
Nurgle is better against than Tzeentch against non-dakka armies because -1 to hit is better than +1 ward save. And you have fear. Great against Hordes.
Slaanesh is not useful for Warriors. Unless you are fighting against Dark Elves...

Unit size...
4*3 is the smaller and defensive formation. 6*2 you have the best damage output but suffer a lot from dakka armies. 6*3 against dakka armies but 6 more warriors are a lot of points.

Options...
No need for a Champion, M5 with banner of swiftness.

Conclusion...
A great unit but cost a lot of points... M4 is too slow so you need to accept they will always be the last unit in your army to reach the opponent. Don't be flanked.

Ayin
23-12-2015, 06:54
Halberds are the basic choice for Warriors. My Khorne Warriors with Halberds are wonderful, and they would be my default choice for generic (or Slaanesh) Warriors as well.

Tzeentch with Hand Weapon and Shield is a neat unit with their 5++ parry and 3+ save that can either be fielded just for fun, or work even better with some kind of purpose. As resilient as the unit is, most "elite" CC troops will still be hitting on 4's, wounding on 2's (although maybe half will need 3's) and dropping you to 5+/5++ at best, so it's still very easy to have the unit chewed up, and with damage output being the other (and likely bigger) part of the Combat Res equation, the unit is heavily penalized here.

The other option which I feel doesn't see nearly enough play is Mark of Nurgle with Great Weapons. The MoN's flat -1 to hit in CC gives the unit significantly increased surviveability, especially against other armies elites, and that bonus very nearly offsets the downside of going last against most foes. In addition, the unit has the potential to kill anything. Halberd Warriors, even with MoK can get caught up against 1+ save troops (Demigryphs, Steam Tank), but that extra point of Strength that lets them wound and go through armour can really turn it for them. Backed up with some magic, and the unit is potentially awesome.

Any build should bring Shields along. Ranged damage is really hammered in 8th due to the increase in cost and loss of effectiveness of man ranged Infantry units (especially in earlier books like Empire), but for the average 18 man unit, including shields is very likely the exact same points cost as one more model, so if it saves one model while closing ranks, it's a draw, and if it saves two, it was a good investment.


Going with the Banner of Swiftness is a solid choice to help your unit close (and manuever, that wider unit frontage really shows when trying to wheel) with your enemies lines. If you're going Mark of Khorne, make sure to bring along enough units of Warhounds to control your Frenzy in addition to tying up enemy lines (and giving your unit cover). In my 1500pt list I bring 4x5, and at 2000 I'd likely have 6x5. It's incredibly helpful.


Lastly, Warriors are NOT the best investment in the Core section for Warriors of Chaos (sadly), but don't let that stop you, because they are still GOOD, just not Chariot-Spam "great". Use the units you like. I run 18 in 3x6, but have my BSB on Daemonic Mount in with them, and he's AWESOME (and helps control Frenzy), just like my two units of Chaos Knights are awesome (one with Lances and Flaming Banner for monster hunting, one with Enscorcelled Weapons and Gleaming Penant to use farther away from my BSB to give me Frenzy control). There are a lot of fun ways to play Warriors that aren't often explored. Hordes of them seem like a terrible idea (and they admittedly are the worst for Khorne), but I've gone up against armies built on a Hordes of Nurgle Warriors (with GW) and a Horde of Tzeentch Warriors (Tzeentch with the BSB toting the Ironcurse Icon and some MR) and seen them used, and it can be hilarious when they run up against an army that's generalled by someone who is sure such a force is badly designed, but still can't come up with a solution based on the forces they brought.

daftpunkevo
23-12-2015, 10:00
Weapons...
Shield and Halberd is the way to go for warriors. Mandatory against elves.

Mark of Chaos...
Unmarked if you are going to play small games.
Khorne have the best damage output but it's not beginner friendly and with a shield you lost the parry save... useful against anybody, best against undead.
Tzeentch stack with the parry save from your shield and give more protection against dakka armies like dwarves or empire.
Nurgle is better against than Tzeentch against non-dakka armies because -1 to hit is better than +1 ward save. And you have fear. Great against Hordes.
Slaanesh is not useful for Warriors. Unless you are fighting against Dark Elves...

Unit size...
4*3 is the smaller and defensive formation. 6*2 you have the best damage output but suffer a lot from dakka armies. 6*3 against dakka armies but 6 more warriors are a lot of points.

Options...
No need for a Champion, M5 with banner of swiftness.

Conclusion...
A great unit but cost a lot of points... M4 is too slow so you need to accept they will always be the last unit in your army to reach the opponent. Don't be flanked.

except you forgot to mention that halberd in close means no parry save since halberd is a 2Hand weapon. the Halberd + shield combo will only give you +1 armor against shooting.

Drakkar du Chaos
23-12-2015, 13:13
except you forgot to mention that halberd in close means no parry save since halberd is a 2Hand weapon. the Halberd + shield combo will only give you +1 armor against shooting.

I'm do not play 8th that much so forgot about that rule ;)

Ayin
23-12-2015, 19:06
except you forgot to mention that halberd in close means no parry save since halberd is a 2Hand weapon. the Halberd + shield combo will only give you +1 armor against shooting.

And it's still perfectly worth the points to give them shields, and that is still the most common and effective build.

Thane Godri Thunderbrand
23-12-2015, 23:03
Awesome, thanks!
What about the chaos knights and the chariot? Should I give the knights the enscrolled weapons? And which chariot (I'll only have the one) should I build; gorebeast or normal? And should my chaos lord ride on it, or go on foot?

daftpunkevo
24-12-2015, 09:29
Awesome, thanks!
What about the chaos knights and the chariot? Should I give the knights the enscrolled weapons? And which chariot (I'll only have the one) should I build; gorebeast or normal? And should my chaos lord ride on it, or go on foot?

never make a chaos lord on chariot, it's a lone target, always get boys around him so it can have the 2+ watch out save. being alone means 100% destroyed turn 1. Given your knowledge about chaos, i would advise building the normal chariot, it will be as fast as marching chaos warrior on foot, the gorebeast while much stronger, will be left alone behind.
the knights should indeed have ensorcelled weapons :) expanding this army you could buy just more knights and more chariots, and some dogs and a chimera, knight are REALLY cheap with 20€ for 200 points and are effective.

Drakkar du Chaos
24-12-2015, 14:09
Awesome, thanks!
What about the chaos knights and the chariot? Should I give the knights the enscrolled weapons? And which chariot (I'll only have the one) should I build; gorebeast or normal? And should my chaos lord ride on it, or go on foot?

Gorebeast is better but slower.
A Gorebeast with mark of Nurgle is very resilient. A normal chariot with mark of Khorne is immune to panic and it's a lot of pain for your opponent when you have two khorne chariots on the same target (chariots doesn't work alone).

As for the Knights they cost a lot of point so you have two options :
- a big unit of 10, 12, 15 knights with you General in it. Khorne ? We already have the skullcrushers and frenzy for a high cost unit is not a good idea. Nurgle ? -1 to hit, fear, 1+ armor save, great unit for a nurgle sorcerer. Use ensorcelled weapons against anyone, use spears or nothing against high elves.
- one or two small unit with 5 knight, unmarked or slaanesh with cavalry spears. Use them like a chariot.

Ayin
26-12-2015, 19:27
Awesome, thanks!
What about the chaos knights and the chariot? Should I give the knights the enscrolled weapons? And which chariot (I'll only have the one) should I build; gorebeast or normal? And should my chaos lord ride on it, or go on foot?

Chaos Knights are somewhat difficult to fit. Much like the Warriors, they aren't a BAD choice at all they just clearly aren't as good as some other things for their cost. A big part of their deployment and use is in the marks.

I run two units of 5 or 6 Chaos Knights in my 8th edition army, both Mark of Khorne, and I love them, and they serve very different purposes. Unfortunately as with all Khorne, they pay points for an ability that they get no benefit from if they are set into the second rank. Because of this I prefer to run multiple one-rank units, which also helps me get more charges, and more protection against enemy spells and missile attacks.

The first is a unit of 5 with Banner of Eternal Flame and Lances with a Unit champion is an absolutely AMAZING monster hunter unit. They're able to fit 4 wide to the front of most monsters and they put out 13 WS5 S6 flaming attacks at I5. That's usually enough to run right through a Hydra or Hellpit face on, and that's a beautiful sight.

The second is a unit of 5 or 6 with Enscorcelled Weapons and the Glimmering Pennant (I think this is the one), a very cheap Magic Standard that allows you to re-roll the first failed Ld test. This unit is a great choice to be out on the side, out of range of the Battle Standard (or General) with reasonable protection from Frenzy-ing off somewhere terrible. Ideally this unit gets into something already engaged, but I occassionally just use them to slam straight into a unit I don't feel like dealing with. Although they lack the ranks to match Steadfast the damage they put out (15 WS5 S5 I5 attacks and 10 WS3 S4 attacks from the mounts) is often enough to delete two ranks of an opponent a combat round, which is enough to either allow my infantry to break Steadfast on my opponents, or guarantee me two or three rounds (or more) of won combats, tying up even a fairly difficult enemy until the end of the game.

Ran with a different Mark, they lose much less with multiple ranks. Two (or three) ranks of Chaos Knights with MoN and Enscorcelled Weapons is a very difficult unit to shift. Throw in a Hero (even BSB) on a Daemonic Mount to give him T5 and 3W and they can tank nearly anything in the game.


Chariots are in a similar position. They are naturally hard to shift by killing, and can put out reasonable damage. A Khorne marked chariot can put out enough hurt to consistently win combats on it's own against many units even after the Impact Hits go away. In that case, upgrading it to a Gorebeast is almost a waste of points (especially if you are using it to support another unit, where the lack of speed could actually show), but on the other hand, converting a Chariot to be pulled by a Juggernaut is an awesome sight! A Nurgle marked Chariot is ludicrously tough, like, unreasonably at WS5, T6, 5W and -1 to be hit, but it doesn't carry the combat res to stay in long combats consistently.


If you want to put a character in a Chariot, I suggest you take a look at The 9th Age, otherwise it's pretty much a lost cause (though it is an awesome concept, and I try and make sure to cut my regular opponent slack on how I treat his Orc character in boar chariot).