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F.E.A.R.
23-01-2016, 00:07
How do they? Do they have some kind of a project of creating new CSM (not cloning like Fabius Bile)? The only source I know about is the project Honsou launched, but was destroyed.

The guy created a group of creatures known as Daemonculaba. These creatures were made from captured female slaves, mutated and modified using vast amount of gene-seed. These creatures would create new CSM by implanting human children into their wombs, which would speed up the process of an Astartes by the use of modified gene-seed in the female slaves.


224937


Though this project was destroyed by Uriel Ventris of the Ultrasmurfs.

Is there a similar project like the Daemonculaba? Someone in the Dark Mechanicus planing a similar project? Or is it already on the run?

Kakapo42
23-01-2016, 00:50
Mostly the same way regular Space Marines are, by finding suitable recruits and implanting them with the extra organs and geneseed. The main difference is that they usually use looted loyalist geneseed, since the average Chaos Space Marine geneseed (well, for Traitor Legions at any rate) tends to be too mutated to work properly, though there are exceptions (like the Night Lords if I remember correctly). The upshot of that is that in order to make new Chaos Space Marines they typically have to steal a bunch of loyalist geneseed first.

There are other alternative options though, like the aforementioned Daemonculaba.

Denny
23-01-2016, 09:31
Also note that Fabius Bile still makes Space Marines the 'normal' way, and is willing to sell his services to any legion in need of recruits.

In addition the legions can 'recruit' recently turned traitors from loyalist legions (and from each other; a significant number of the Black Legion are converts from other legions/chapters.)

F.E.A.R.
23-01-2016, 14:25
I see. So they steal gene-seed to create new CSM. But if Fabius Bile is willing to sell his service to any legion, then what if the Death Guard came in question? How will he create Death Guard Marines? Or do the Death Guard use fallen SM then raise from the dead?

Kodanshi
23-01-2016, 15:23
224937


Looks like Slaanesh Porn.

Retrospectus
23-01-2016, 17:25
Looks like Slaanesh Porn.

too softcore for slaanesh

Inquisitor Engel
23-01-2016, 17:53
I see. So they steal gene-seed to create new CSM. But if Fabius Bile is willing to sell his service to any legion, then what if the Death Guard came in question? How will he create Death Guard Marines? Or do the Death Guard use fallen SM then raise from the dead?

The Death Guard and Thousand Sons both are kind of weird. Of course any old marine can say "Yeah, I'm pledging Nurgle!" but perhaps there's some formal destroyer-hive mutation process that happens after that?

Thousand Sons supposedly re-summon the souls of recently "broken" Rubric marines, but still...

WarsmithGarathor94
24-01-2016, 21:09
Well when a female csm and a male csm have special feelings for each other.... :p jk
Fabius bile is one option. Recruiting from recently turned renegades is another. Also depending on who the warband is favored by Necromancy could be a option too

Denny
25-01-2016, 09:07
The latest chaos codex notes that certain sorcerers know the rituals for creating new Plague Marines; I imagine becoming a Plague Marine is the goal of Nurgle marked marines, and such marines that prove worthy are therefore 'recruited' in that manner.

When you are as corrupted as a Plague Marine your original geneseed is probably fairly irrelevant.

nagash66
25-01-2016, 10:23
Its also worth stating that the major traitor legions have been in steady decline for ages. The black legion flourished by basically letting anyone in and re investing themselves.

But 1k sons, night lords and the like who care/cant who they recruit, stick to older notions of legion marines=better then rogue marines and the like are dying out.

Look at the night lord books to see what happens to those traitor legions who fail to learn from the Black Legion. The old legions are dead or dying, even the despoiler needs major alliance numbers to carry out major strikes . They just dont have the numbers of 'pure' traitors left.

Even 1k sons who can re summon dead rubrik are slowly dying out, as in the Ahriman books this can happen in the case of Rubrics dying to major damage or inability to summon them back in time. As for the sorcerers themselves they are only a finite numbers of the old guard left and it isnt going up.

Its a aspect of CSM that the BL books have done well in some cases, the actual traitors are few and far between, mostly its marines who either never knew the original heresy or new recruits who hate the Imperium because that is what they were taught to do.

Chaos players yammer and yammer about how the codes doesnt focus on the legions much, but it really shouldn't, they are the minority of the CSM forces, and they are only diminishing.

So how they are created? In a vast mix of ways. None of which is doing the old guard much good.

Karhedron
25-01-2016, 13:58
I remember some old IA fluff stating that the Alpha Legion gene seed was still stable as they didn't tend to hang out in the Eye much and instead quietly infiltrated worlds in realspace. There was also mention of partially implanted individuals being recorded although it was unclear whether these were new recruits or an attempt to create souped-up agents who could still pass for normal humans.

blackcherry
25-01-2016, 14:12
I remember some old IA fluff stating that the Alpha Legion gene seed was still stable as they didn't tend to hang out in the Eye much and instead quietly infiltrated worlds in realspace. There was also mention of partially implanted individuals being recorded although it was unclear whether these were new recruits or an attempt to create souped-up agents who could still pass for normal humans.

Considering certain people during the heresy were created in a similar way (i.e. they were human adults made post-human but not quite at the level of a standard marine due to their age) it could be possible that that knowledge has been retained in some of the Traitor legions, who aren't as picky when it comes to recruitment. The thinking seems to be (people like Fabious Bile who want to create the 'perfect beings' excluded) that that if they are hungry enough for it then they will survive and distinguish themselves, regardless of their heritage.

Plus, you have a good point Karhedron. People who have been augmented slightly but could otherwise pass for a human/tall human would probably be better infiltrators.

F.E.A.R.
25-01-2016, 20:33
Its also worth stating that the major traitor legions have been in steady decline for ages. The black legion flourished by basically letting anyone in and re investing themselves.

But 1k sons, night lords and the like who care/cant who they recruit, stick to older notions of legion marines=better then rogue marines and the like are dying out.

Look at the night lord books to see what happens to those traitor legions who fail to learn from the Black Legion. The old legions are dead or dying, even the despoiler needs major alliance numbers to carry out major strikes . They just dont have the numbers of 'pure' traitors left.
LoL I didn't knew about this. Well they should make a new codex where there's finally a way of creating CSM. If possible.

F.E.A.R.
25-01-2016, 20:36
I remember some old IA fluff stating that the Alpha Legion gene seed was still stable as they didn't tend to hang out in the Eye much and instead quietly infiltrated worlds in realspace. There was also mention of partially implanted individuals being recorded although it was unclear whether these were new recruits or an attempt to create souped-up agents who could still pass for normal humans.
That I didn't knew. I can say that the Alpha Legion is very mysterious. So it not only has a stable gene-seed, but they also do not call for demons. I mean they do, but a lot less, compare to the other Legions. But I think you already heard of the theory about the Alpha Legion being still loyal, while being traitorous at the same time. Though is for another topic.

=Angel=
25-01-2016, 21:37
I didn't see anything in Ahriman series about Rubrics becoming too damaged to regenerate. In the admittedly old SW novels, Ragnar kills a Sorceror, only for him to return, summoning thousand sons souls into the bodies of mortals no less.
Apothecaries do exist among the legions, such as the word bearers, and they will be highly valued. Only the cult legions would have messed up geneseed, the undivided legions should be mostly OK, and even the world eaters don't mutate too much. Lesser warband commanders would be less likely to have an apothecary but a unified legion is more likely to have access to such individuals.

Rogue Star
26-01-2016, 10:27
Easy.

Loyalists keep turning traitor. :p

WarsmithGarathor94
26-01-2016, 11:49
while certain legions might be dieing out quite a few are not ie the word bearers the iron warriors the death guard

blackcherry
26-01-2016, 12:01
while certain legions might be dieing out quite a few are not ie the word bearers the iron warriors the death guard

Where does it state the Death Guard are stable numbers wise WarshithGarathor94? Just curious, as I know The Word Bearers and Iron Warriors are pretty stable due to them being insular in nature (though they do have a very high attrition rate when launching raids it seems) but the Death Guard I haven't heard much of.

Harwammer
26-01-2016, 16:56
I remember some old IA fluff stating that the Alpha Legion gene seed was still stable as they didn't tend to hang out in the Eye much and instead quietly infiltrated worlds in realspace. There was also mention of partially implanted individuals being recorded although it was unclear whether these were new recruits or an attempt to create souped-up agents who could still pass for normal humans.

There is an Alpha Legionnaire, who identifies as Alpharius(!), who specialises in subverting Ultramarine successor chapters, causing civil wars in those chapters, then absorbing the survivors of those civil wars into his own forces. He plans to bleed dry the legacy of the Ultramarine Legion in this way.