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deathrain-commander
29-02-2016, 15:57
So here's a fluff question I've been curious about for a while now: Do Dark Angels harvest geneseed from Fallen they capture and get to repent? I'm not certain if there's any official ruling (I mean, why would they specify that one way or the other) so I'm more curious about what people think they do. I'd tend to assume not, but hey, someone might have a compelling argument.

Rogue Star
29-02-2016, 16:12
Assuming it's untainted? Don't see why not, but expect extensive screening, and the recipient to undergo intense scrutiny.

Matthueycamo
29-02-2016, 16:22
I would say no. In such a hyper religious environment the fact that they think they have fallen would be enough to make their geneseed not worthy of being used I think. Does not mean the seed is actually tainted and that it would not create a fine loyal marine just it's not something I think they would do as they would see it as tainted.

Karhedron
02-03-2016, 13:54
I am inclined to agree with Matthueycamo. Such is the perceived dishonour surrounding the Fallen that I would imagine the DAs want to expunge every trace of them. Also there is the psychological aspect. Marines venerate the geneseed as way of perpetuating the chapter and also in a sense their own contribution to it. Destroying the geneseed of the Fallen to to ensure they have no legacy (even a genetic one) is one further tool in the arsenal of the Chapter to help break the spirits of those they capture.

Asi the Red
07-03-2016, 04:01
I think I'd have to look at what the DA's motivation for hunting the Fallen is (I like the DA, but I'm a Tau player so I'm not 100% read in on their background). Obviously they hunt the Fallen to keep them a secret from the rest of the Imperium, and to keep them from doing any more damage to the Imperium / spreading dangerous ideologies. But there's more to it than that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of capturing the Fallen and delivering them to the Interrogator-Chaplains is to get them to repent, and the point of repentance is to give them the forgiveness of death and in dying to do their final duty to the Emperor. And in laying down their life for the Emperor and dying in His service, they earn redemption.

So I would think that if the geneseed can be verified by an Apothecary as pure, and the Fallen has confessed and earned his redemption in death by an Interrogator-Chaplain's hand then he did not die a Fallen - he's died as a Dark Angel, and there would be no reason not to use his geneseed.

Of course I could see it going the other way just as easily, but I like this narrative better in that it makes their hunt for the Fallen not just about keeping their dark secret but also about returning a lost brother to the fold.

Tarrell
07-03-2016, 05:59
Collected DA for a while now, and love their lore (though some has changed).
From How I understand it, the 'Fallen' were the original inhabited Kights of Caliban, they served and fought with the Lion and Luthor to free Caliban of the demons, beasts and other threats that infested the forests of Caliban.
After the world was freed the imperium eventual came across Caliban and emperor new the Lion as his one of his sons.
However the Dark Angels as a force already existed, the first order to be created after the emperors own legion. They already contained the Geneseed, however as Knights of Caliban were already middle aged to late men, instead they were "Converted" into space marines through augmentation.
I dont believe they had the gene seed implanted, or if they did it was different to an actual grown space marine.
It was luthor and the original knights of Caliban they were eventual sent home near the end of the crusades to guard against horses forces, and they that turned the guns of Caliban on the Lion and the Dark Angels fleet.

Also DA hate anything that looks or could be 'Tainted" preferring to 'Cleanes it" first, which is why the don't paly nice the the imperium, and refuse to fight if subhumans are present in an imperial guard force.

Matthueycamo
07-03-2016, 11:08
A lot were from the Order but not all. Astelan for example was one of the origional Dark Angels Legionaries from before Lion was found.

The Black Shield
07-03-2016, 12:23
A lot of the Fallen are Terrans. The Fallen were the Dark Angels that had displeased Johnson in some inscrutable way and were banished back to Caliban for the "Honor" of training the new recruits. We are not sure on all the details, but we know that those on Caliban fired upon the returning Dark Angels fleet and afterwards there was a confrontation between Luther and the Lion. After which the Fallen were scattered by the Warp and Caliban was destroyed.

Tarrell
07-03-2016, 22:28
There you go I wasn't aware Astelan was from Terra.
We know now that the Lion was mortally injured and the watchers took him deep into the Rock, where he has been healing.
I always like the idea of the Rock, a small part of the planet, big enough to dock battle cruisers inside, formed around the biggest citadel left standing from the destruction of the planet, and then they strapped giant thrusters to the rear and covered it in shields and lots of guns. Also saya a lot about those shields, with able to withstand the barrage of a fleet that destroyed the whole planet yet the citadel still stands.
Also unlike other legions that separated into self governing chapters, all the DA chapters still report to the Rock, and in one form or another are all working towards the same goal, capture the fallen.

One thing I don't like, is the fact that Fallen are often represented wearing Dark Green Armour, Example Cypher, hes always wearing the Dark Greens of the current Dark angels, yet the Dark Angels Armour was Black, they only changed it when they Started hunting down the renegades and began referring themselves to the Unforgiven.

blackcherry
07-03-2016, 22:57
That's a bit of artistic licence. The real reason for the change is that between one edition of the game and another, someone painted a dark angel army the wrong colour completely and then photos of the newly painted dark angels showed up in a key 40k rulebook :D

But hey, the writers justifying goofs with in universe excuses has always been great part of my enjoyment of the 40k universe.

MOMUS
08-03-2016, 00:14
Nah you guys got it wrong, the DA chapter as it stands today are the real fallen.

The (mainly) Terran troops sent back to guard the homeworld discovered the Lions betrayal, this is why he swiftly attacked. To silence anyone who may contradict his word.

The fallen are the last remaining loyalist DA.

StrikeDeath
08-03-2016, 02:16
Nah you guys got it wrong, the DA chapter as it stands today are the real fallen.

The (mainly) Terran troops sent back to guard the homeworld discovered the Lions betrayal, this is why he swiftly attacked. To silence anyone who may contradict his word.

The fallen are the last remaining loyalist DA.

Oh you poor, poor person. Allow me to set you up with a meeting with my good friend Asmodai. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.

Tarrell
08-03-2016, 03:33
Oh you poor, poor person. Allow me to set you up with a meeting with my good friend Asmodai. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.
Asmodai is always looking for more beads to add to his collection. Consequentially he has a 100% conviction rating.
The artistic licencing, OMG really... thats...actually worked out quite nicely.

Night Bearer
08-03-2016, 21:55
Asmodai is always looking for more beads to add to his collection. Consequentially he has a 100% conviction rating.
The artistic licencing, OMG really... thats...actually worked out quite nicely.
For some reason I'm picturing Asmodai as the villainous prosecutor in a "Making a Traitorer" Netflix documentary about a Legionnaire set up by corrupt Loyalists for a heresy he claims he did not commit.

Tarrell
10-03-2016, 02:02
Sounds like a binge watch to me

kilkrazy
03-04-2016, 03:11
I thought it was mainly Calibanites that were sent back to Caliban.
Something about the Lion not trusting them or that they were slightly touched by Khaos. Or just pissed him of for some reason.

Khaos can create more marines with stolen progenoids, no reason to think it couldnt work the other way, depending on the level of corruption.
Doubtful the DA would try it though. Theyre a little too paranoid about everything.
The Ba might be making use of some the renegade knights of blood geneseed to bring their numbers back up

StrikeDeath
03-04-2016, 12:01
I thought it was mainly Calibanites that were sent back to Caliban.
Something about the Lion not trusting them or that they were slightly touched by Khaos. Or just pissed him of for some reason.

He sent people back that disappointed him in some way. Out of everyone that was sent back you can be sure that he'll have trusted Luther (at least some what) but he failed in something.

ryng_sting
09-04-2016, 07:40
AFAIK only Luther wasn't a true Space Marine; all the other Fallen were. They were a mix of Terrans and Calibanites, handpicked by their Primarch and relegated to home-world duties.

Keep
13-04-2016, 15:11
They might possibly keep the fallens geneseed in storage and experiment with it... secretly of course.

Denny
13-04-2016, 15:18
I can't see them using it due to paranoia, even if the geneseed is clean of obvious taint.

Keep
13-04-2016, 15:26
well not using it for their own marines obviously, but for experimenting with it / trying to do something with it in order to find the last fallen with the same geneseed... something like that.