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Outlaw289
10-07-2006, 15:47
From what I've gathered, they seem to be a highly religious group of people fighting for the Ecclesiarchy. If this is the case, why is their existence permitted, since the Ecc. isn't allowed to have men under arms?

Also, considering the relative religious zealotry of the common Imperial and of the Imperial Guard, is there anything really stopping the Ecclesiarchy from recruiting Imperial Guard regiments to (officially or unofficially) fight in their name?

Minister
10-07-2006, 15:58
The Decree Pasive halted the Ecclesiarchy's use and funding of warships and "men under arms", however it did not halt the arming of non-military units for basic security...

Ordained priests are permitted weapons for defence and for the enforcment of Ecclesiarchy law amongst the populace. This also results in the members of the Pontifex Guard detailed as Witch Hunters advesaries.

The Faretas Militia is comprised of either:
1) Members of the local population roused to the defence by the Ecclesiarchy.
2) Honest pilgrims who just happen to find themselves confronted by heretics/xenos/whatever and have had the good fortune to have taken with them weapons with which to defend themselves. These weapons, of course, have nothing at all to do with the Ecclesiarchy Missionaries who are leading them on their pligrimage at all, perish the thought.
3) Lay servants of the Church who have taken up arms in defence of their shrine and/or community.

Whilst the Ecclesiarchy could influence PDF, mercenary or Guard units to attack their enemies, this is not permitted without a War of Faith being authorised by the High Lords. The Inquisitoon watches these like hawks, ensuring that they obey at least the spirit of the Decree Pasive.

Sikkukkut
10-07-2006, 16:05
I don't have my books next to me, but from memory there are all sorts of ways for the Ministorum to slither through loopholes in the Decree Passive. The Sororitas are one, and another is the thinking behind the Frateris Militia.

"What's that, Mister Hereticus Inquisitor? Men under arms? Goodness me, no! That would be wrong! No, these fine men, all fifty-eight thousand of them, are all marching aboard these transports as part of a spontaneous devotional pilgrimage. Strangest thing - by complete coincidence all our priests and confessors happened to spend the last month giving homilies about the schismatic blasphemers over there in the next system. And these fine citizens decided, completely on their own, to go over there and fight for the Emperor's truth, isn't that marvellous? Why of course we're sending a contingent of clergy over there with them, these men are all so committed to their faith, it would be abandoning our vocation not to accompany them into battle! Oh, those Ministorum banners they're marching under? A gift from our Cardinal to the Lord Militant, purely a token of esteem, you understand. And the fully-armed Sororitas mission is a symbolic presence only, of course."

gunhed
10-07-2006, 16:19
As they said. Think of it as a spontanious show of faith without any prompting from priests, confessors etc ;)

Almost like these entirely spontanious demonstrations in certain parts of the world where 10,000 people can suddenly find a flag/effigy of the latest focus of hate and starts denouncing them whilst also burning said flag/effigy.

Now imagine these mobs arming themselves and wanting to borrow a spaceship or two to follow their hearts. As a spaceship captain, who'd say no to 10,000 hate filled fanatics?

Odd isn't it... Can't buy a loaf of bread or medicine in most of these places, but someone else's national flag? no problem :wtf:

Minister
10-07-2006, 16:53
The great thing about a starship is that you can just close the hathces and leave. Often quite quickly.

It's a rare angry mob that has PD lasers.

Inq. Veltane
10-07-2006, 17:09
Yeah. The Ordo Hereticus was founded precisely to watch the Ecclesiarchy and ensure that it didn't gain the power to cause another Age of Apostasy. Inquisitors are generally not easily taken in by lies such as those gunhed suggests. Basically, just because we're the Inquisition doesn't mean we're stupid.

Ursca
10-07-2006, 18:41
Well, the Frateris Militia aren't really "men under arms" as I think that's supposed to mean a trained and armed private army.
The Frateris Militia are, as other posters have said, more of a spontaneous thing. And what inquisitor is going to stop a horde of fanatics fighting the enemies of the imperium, even if they are a bit close to the ecclesiarchy?

Gen.Steiner
10-07-2006, 20:24
What they said.

They're just religiously inspired militas, but slightly less (dis)organised than the Crusade of the Red Redemption.

Minister
10-07-2006, 21:37
More that the Faretas are recognised by the Imperial Church, whereas the Red Redemption is not most of the time (although they have their supporters).

Gen.Steiner
10-07-2006, 21:39
The Red Redemption are a deniable asset, really.

gunhed
11-07-2006, 17:56
Inquisitors are generally not easily taken in by lies such as those gunhed suggests. Basically, just because we're the Inquisition doesn't mean we're stupid.

I wasn't suggesting outright lies, more a kind of plausible deniability. Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. When I said Preachers, Confessors etc, I meant anyone, even a member of the =][=.

It wouldn't be beyond belief for a member of the =][= to stay out of the limelight, whilst whispering certain words into a preachers ear, convincing him to whip up a crusade of sorts.

Minister
11-07-2006, 19:29
The Red Redemption are a deniable asset, really.
They are, by my reading, more of a seperate organisation which can be manipulated under certain circumstances. The Red Redemption is as much a threat to the local church as it is an ally, being as that it tends to anhialate the nice, stable setup upon which the Ecclesiarchy thrives.

Gondorian
11-07-2006, 20:45
The inquisition isn't stupid. But it has to play the game. Part of the 'Oh no inquisitor, they just decided to go on pilgrimage, no act on our part' is that the priests know they are lying, the inquisition know that they're lying but to say so out right is not political.
The work of a lot of inquisitors, such as the guy in the second soul drinkers book, involves playing political games with other factions, such as the ecclesersy or the adaptus mechanicus, to gain what they need.