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gunhed
10-07-2006, 16:38
I know that IG regiments are founded from the populations of different world, is catachan, mordia, valhalla etc, but I was wondering if someone could actually switch regiments.

Not like they did in "15 Hours" where they were dropped onto the wrong planet and ended up with another regiment by mistake, or where two or more regiments (say Tallarns and Cadians) are reduced in numbers so much that the War Marshalls fuse them into one regiment, but by actually applying to join the regiment in question.

Minister
10-07-2006, 16:50
No, baring signing up on another world after your term of service is over or being permanantly attatched to another regiment as part of your unit (commonly because your regiment has sustained suficient casualties to be broken up entirely).

Khaine's Messenger
10-07-2006, 16:55
One assumes not. Arguably, for certain worlds, a "foreign" officer cadre might be drawn up, or some local yokels may be sucked into an existing regiment (Vervunhivers + Tanith = scratching head), but other than that or "regiments fused together by circumstance"...no, I wouldn't think so. Guard regiments are almost always self-contained units (well, on paper anyway...their battlefield formations aren't exactly along the same lines as their paperwork "organization"), and petitioning the Administratum or Guard Command for reassignment is going to be a non-starter (if only because of the paperwork).

I mean, as it stands, it takes an act of god to convince them you're not dead once you've been written up as a casualty (on the other hand, Ciaphis Cain cannot, "officially" speaking, die). So unless you're a Commissar or have some similar officer standing, no dice.

Inq. Veltane
10-07-2006, 17:05
I'm sure there would be a few exceptions (aren't there always?) but as a general principle certainly not.

Gen.Steiner
10-07-2006, 20:25
I entirely agree with all that's been said.

The one group of Guardsmen who routinely switch Regiment are the Commissars, of course...

Inquisitor S.
10-07-2006, 21:02
Except the fusing of regiments or the ending up like in 15 hours there is no such thing that I would have heard of. Exceptions of course for storm troopers, ogryns, ratlings etc.

Gen.Steiner
10-07-2006, 21:07
Commissars are the only people who routinely switch Regiment.

Not even Storm Troopers, Ogryns or Ratlings switch regiments, as they have their own Regiments, and are simply attached to other units for certain campaigns.

EarthScorpion
11-07-2006, 10:07
It also occurs if you are assigned to a penal regiment, of course, although that move is basically permanent, and also rather short.

Sai-Lauren
11-07-2006, 11:34
I can think of a few ways - if someone was included in an infantry guard founding who was a really good diver for example, then they could possibly apply for a transfer to a maritime navy unit, similarly, if they had shown a measure of skill in digging trenches or demolitions, then they may be allowed to move to an engineering corps unit, or if rendered non-combatant through injury or age, they could potentially be moved from front-line units to such things as transport pool, C&C, Quartermasters stores, MPs/POW guards and garrison duties and so on, or soldiers could transfer out to become DIs for newly founded regiments, particularly those from their home world - such things could even be given as rewards for particularly meritous service alongside promotions.

Other possible reasons for transfer would be if they showed sufficient ability to warrant reassignment to Special Forces units, or an officer elevated from a line regiment to the General Staff could potentially bring a lifeguard from his old regiment with him.

Of course, all that's probably quite rare, and Penal Legions, amalgamation of regiments and possibly reassignment of a regiment (say an infantry regiment gets retrained and assigned to a Mechanised regiment to help replace their casualties) are probably the most common ways to change regiments.

I think tranfers would be allowed if there were a definite advantage to the imperial war machine in that change (a skilled diver in an infantry regiment is merely a body in the line, that same person in a maritime unit is much more useful to the unit in question).

gunhed
11-07-2006, 17:51
Thanks fellas, that's pretty much what I thought, only having just read 13th Legion, Kage was offered a post in any regiment he wanted, and I was wondering how a regiment composed os soldiers born and raised on lets say Valhalla, would react to a stranger joining the ranks.

Gen.Steiner
12-07-2006, 12:29
With distrust until he proved himself, and even after that I suspect a lot of people would tolerate rather than appreciate him.

MrLiy
12-07-2006, 17:28
hehe catachans react badly to commisars joining the ranks....

Gen.Steiner
12-07-2006, 22:46
Ah, yes, but not all Regiments ensure their Commissars have 'accidents'... ;)

MrLiy
12-07-2006, 23:39
the irony is that my catachans take commissars....two powerfists in one squad....why of course!

Ardathair
13-07-2006, 00:30
It would be a difficult transition in most cases.

A Cadian transfered to a Mordian unit, "You say we stay close to consentrate our fire (close order drill), what about frag missles."

A Valhallan joining a Catachan unit, gets left behind as everyone else moves through the jungle like it wasn't there, not waiting for the slow poke. "He wouldn't have survived long enough on Catachan to grow up."

Catachan joining Steel Legion Regiment, "You expect me to go into that tin can?"

The doctrines are the current way of representing that differant regiments fight in different ways which a transfered guardsman would find difficult to grasp putting the whole unit at risk unless they write the newbe off.

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 08:39
Or they treat the new guy as the FNG, get along, and then eventually s/he'll fit in - or die. C'est la guerre.

gunhed
13-07-2006, 17:16
On a similar vein then, would Stormtroopers return to their original regiment after their tour of duty (I'm of course only assuming that they have a fixed tour) or do they get a better offer?

Isoroku
13-07-2006, 18:00
Hmm transference to personal the one regiment Trained to Chaos Fighters (Mordia) to cadia Maybe
Transference Mordian to catachans is very hard to poor mordian

Gondorian
13-07-2006, 21:56
A lot of the time forces just get taken to where they are needed most. Stormtroopers on tour are more likely to be diverted to a new task force where they are urgently needed than sent back to where ever they came from, most of the time anyway.

Gen.Steiner
13-07-2006, 22:31
Stormtroopers are deployed to warzones by Regiment, then the individual units are spread out to complete specific tasks, which may or may not coincide with the tasks of the standard Guardsmen. Think of them as Delta Force, SAS, or SpetzNaz.

gunhed
14-07-2006, 11:50
Think of them as Delta Force, SAS, or SpetzNaz.

I already do. I was just wondering whether or not the the IG soldiers selected to be Stormtroopers are Stormtroopers for a fixed term like the trainee Commisars who are doing it for combat experience, and if so, do they return to their original regiments, get asked to join other regiments (after all, what commander wouldn't want a few fully trained Stormtroopers filling the ranks and acting as instructors) or do they just stay as Stormtroopers until the end?

Sai-Lauren
14-07-2006, 13:06
Think of them as Delta Force, SAS, or SpetzNaz.
I don't know, I've always been kind of loathe to do that, in that whilst they can do those kinds of missions, it's not really their speciality.

I see them more as they're named - Stormtroopers - hitting a particular point in the enemies lines very hard, and holding it whilst the regular troopers get up and reinforce them before they tire and run out of ammo. The Stormtroopers then retire to the rear to rest up, re-arm, and get ready to go again.

Special forces would be something else, such as kill teams, hardened veterans and the like. Units that can act away from the main force without being seriously compromised, which IMO Stormtroopers are too high maintenance to do (ST raids would be more like commando missions, approach, attack and extract, whilst SFs would stay behind enemy lines awaiting their next mission and attacking targets of opportunity).

And going onto one of the other threads around here, Stormtrooper regiments are reinforced with new recruits.;) But unless they're on secondment from somewhere like the Commissarat, they're Stormtroopers until they're retired.

Gen.Steiner
14-07-2006, 15:12
The Stormtroopers are from the Schola Progenium. They have generally never been in any other Regiment, although it is worth noting that many Regiments have 'ersatz' Stormtroopers who are specially selected men and women from that Regiment. These are not, however, the real thing.

Stormtroopers can, I think, do both commando raids Royal Marine Commando style - and also do the Special Forces thing (probably most Kill Teams are Stormtroopers out of their carapace).

As for reinforcements, I assume that's because the Ad. Munitorium sees them as being far more important than Average Guard Regiment # 1,572,819...

Gondorian
15-07-2006, 00:00
It depends on the type of storm troopers.

Inquisiroial storm troopers who have followed a particular inquisitor and faced a variety of highly dangerous threats and missions would probably be able to perform special force actions.
Then again, stormies attached to an inquisitor who spends a lot of time in diplomatic duties and therefore see less combat would be less able to achieve special missions.

With guard storm troopers it depends on what they've been through. If they are used to fighting nids by lining up the walls and firing volleys then they won't be flexible enough.
If they are used to fighting guerrlia warfare against say dark eldar then they'll be better prepared for special missions where there will be little or no support.

Sai-Lauren
17-07-2006, 08:28
Having considered it over the weekend, I think there's two reasons why everyone thinks Stormtroopers = Special Forces.
1) They're classed as elite, which to people immediately means SFs. There are elite line troops as well.
2) They're a troop type that hasn't really been around for at least a couple of centuries - they're Heavy Infantry.

Chem-Dog
17-07-2006, 08:48
I suppose one way a trooper might "swap" regiments is if he gets put in a Penal Legion.

You can also have a single specialist, guide or advisor attached to a regiment, a local to help a regiment's HQ navigate the local environment or even just as a translator or even a Jungle Fighter making sure a regiment gets where it is supposed to.

Sai-Lauren, Storm Troopers are considerd as Special Forces, because that's what they are ;) It's been this way since the notion of the Storm Troopers were introduced in the 2nd Edition of 40K with the first IG codex.

Sai-Lauren
17-07-2006, 09:22
Sai-Lauren, Storm Troopers are considerd as Special Forces, because that's what they are ;) It's been this way since the notion of the Storm Troopers were introduced in the 2nd Edition of 40K with the first IG codex.
And you're trusting GW to be correct? They are the people that brought us depleted deuterium bolter warheads after all. :p

Chem-Dog
17-07-2006, 09:47
Heh, in that case, using your logic we can have girl marines, orks on jet bikes and the Emperor's best friend was a chap called Eldrad :p

Seriously though, ignoring gun fetishism and militaria, the Storm Troopers are raised by the Schola Progenium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schola_Progenium), they are transported to battlezones where their combat abilities are needed and then shipped off to another one after their mission is done. Therefore they are Elite.

Sai-Lauren
17-07-2006, 10:50
Heh, in that case, using your logic we can have girl marines, orks on jet bikes and the Emperor's best friend was a chap called Eldrad :p

And short bearded abhumans... :D

But you know what I mean, just because GW says something, doesn't mean they've actually thought it through and they're saying the right thing.



Seriously though, ignoring gun fetishism and militaria, the Storm Troopers are raised by the Schola Progenium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schola_Progenium), they are transported to battlezones where their combat abilities are needed and then shipped off to another one after their mission is done. Therefore they are Elite.
Elite I have no problem with. Didn't I even say they're classed as elite earlier? :)

It's the idea of them sneaking around behind enemy lines on extended missions, or training up local guerrilla fighters and so on (the kinds of missions Special Forces actually do participate in) - what with their power-hungry hellguns, fatiguing heavy armour and so on - Stormtroopers are high maintenance troops that simply need too much regular HQ support to operate in such a manner.

Edit: and if you follow the Stormtroopers link on that page, it takes you to Shock Troops, which is exactly how I referred to them operating. ;)



From
Wikipedia on Special Forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_forces)
Special forces (colloquially, sometimes incorrectly) or special operations forces (general term) are military units which are formed and trained to conduct missions involving unconventional warfare, Counter-Terrorism, reconnaissance, direct action and foreign internal defense. Special Forces typically comprise relatively small groups of highly-trained personnel who are armed and supplied with specialised equipment, and operate on principles of self-sufficiency, stealth, speed and close teamwork. The term is somewhat vague and exactly what forces could be considered special forces is often a judgement call. However, a special force is not the same as an elite force. An elite force is a force of soldiers picked for their competence and put in the same unit. Most special forces are elite to some degree, but all elite forces are not the special forces. An elite force may be expected to do exactly the same thing as a regular soldier, only better, and thus could hardly be called an special force. An example of this might be Napoleons Imperial Guard. Nor should special forces be confused with military specialists, that are simply people with special skills and tasks within an army, such as military doctors, engineers, forward observers and mechanics. A special force team may certainly include people with military specialist training but apart from that, the terms have nothing to do with one another.

Chem-Dog
17-07-2006, 11:03
In that case, I agree with you. Stormies are shock troops, not stealthers.

Edit because I can't spell.

Sai-Lauren
17-07-2006, 13:14
No worries, SFs really are outside the scale of 40k anyway, more likely kill teams, or Inquisitor warband style groups. Although I'd personally suggest hardened veterans or the Last Chancers to represent them in 40k.

Going back on topic, what about temporary and unofficial secondments? Say a trooper was wounded and evac'ed to a field hospital, with his wounds requiring a degree of continuous care, but still being able to wield a gun or whatever, would he be seconded to the field hospitals defence/ security units, or maybe used as an orderly or a driver, at least until he can be declared fit and repatriated to his own unit?

Another one is the Imperial Guard equivalent of ENSA, or the Armed Forces Entertainment - could a trooper who plays a musical instrument, or was an actor on their home world apply for transfer to such a morale/propaganda unit? Do such things even exist?