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View Full Version : Similarities in Loyalist/Traitor iconography



Night Bearer
22-04-2016, 19:40
What are people's thoughts on how the Imperium views names/icons similar to those of Traitor legions? Not in terms of specific Chaos markings and runes, but of the symbols used by renegade chapters and legions themselves?

I've noticed there are a number of Marine chapters that share imagery, such as the Brotherhood of a Thousand (similar name, and use the original painted icon of the Thousand Sons), the Iron Warriors/Silver Skulls, and the Red Legion, whose color scheme and flaming skull are awfully similar to the Word Bearers, to the point where I'm not sure it'd be easy to distinguish between them on the battlefield.

Admittedly, the Brotherhood of a Thousand similarities are really more of a meta-reference that probably don't apply in-universe, but I'm sure there's others. And regardless, the Imperium seems like a place where one would assume even relatively generic icons/names would be dropped once associated with a traitor or renegade force, but obviously that's not the case. Although I don't actually know how Chapter names are chosen, so maybe that's exempt from such things.

Regardless, what's also making me ask is I really love the old, RT/2nd-era one-piece metal Thousand Sons model. While the headdress and other elements make it distinctively Thousand Sons, the only real Chaos-element on the model is the small Tzeentch rune on the back of the right hand - there's no horns, Chaos stars, or mutations (for obvious reasons), which made me start thinking if such a model could actually pass as a Loyalist Marine with the appropriate color scheme (and minus the aforementioned Tzeentch rune). Mind you, not as a 'hidden' Tzeentch Marine amongst Loyalists, or a secret/obscured successor to the T-Sons, but a 'generic' Marine Chapter (albeit one with Egyptian themes of some sort).

My assumption would be that the headdress is way too iconic of the T-Sons for a loyalist to use it, let alone get away with it without sanction by the Imperium. But is that the actual case?

MajorWesJanson
24-04-2016, 14:23
There have been cases of Chaos wargear and ships being reconsecrated and used in Imperial service. Without chaos runes or symbols, the generic styling of the armor should be fine. The armor could be say a long lost stockpile, or a small forge that still makes that pattern, but not Chaos tainted, and thus fine for use. Could even make it a part of the fluff, in that th chapter is loyal, but regarded with suspicion for using that style wargear.

daveNYC
25-04-2016, 19:39
The helmets might be a step too far, just because anyone 'in the know' will probably start shooting the second they see the 1k Son style helmets. This is 40k, where saying that someone looked suspicious and then blowing them to hell is the safe choice.

MajorWesJanson
27-04-2016, 04:10
Of course that depends on who is "In the Know". There are 1000 chapters, and to most Space Marines are legends at best, or glimpsed once from a distance. Working with Imperial authorities, a distinct lack of Chaos worship or symbols besides the shape of the helmet (egyptian, not a stylized Khorne rune like Berzerkers).

daveNYC
27-04-2016, 16:13
Depending on the ignorance of your allies will work right up until it doesn't and then you end up eating a heap of Lehman Russ cannon fire in the face.

OTOH, given the Imperium's pro-ignorance stance, you could probably last a few dozen centuries before you ran into problems.

MajorWesJanson
28-04-2016, 02:41
Depending on the ignorance of your allies will work right up until it doesn't and then you end up eating a heap of Lehman Russ cannon fire in the face.

OTOH, given the Imperium's pro-ignorance stance, you could probably last a few dozen centuries before you ran into problems.

True. But the same could probably be said of any chapter that is not first/second founding. Someone with minor knowledge of Chaos iconography would be quick to shoot at say the Exorcists, Silver Skulls, Red Legion, or Black Dragons. On one occasion a bunch of IG and Sisters of Battle were convinced that Grey Knights were a Chaos Marine force.