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Sleazy
11-07-2006, 12:24
I normally dont ponder on the fluffs and what if of these things but something struck me the other day.

As the Emperor is being kept alive in a huge great life support machine but is basically in a vegative state, is mankind not unwittingly stopping him from ascending to godhood himself and being in a position to fight the chaos gods on a level plane (in effect becoming the chaos god of the Imperium himself).

I got the idea for this watching "Dogma", what do you think?

Dspankdo
11-07-2006, 12:43
Most believe that he has already done this and it is why there are saints in the imperium (the emperor blesses them) you must remember it was the emperor who ordered that the golden throne should be altered to acommadate him.

Minister
11-07-2006, 12:47
There is also the possibility that the Emperor himself did not fully understand what would happen upon his death. Some fluff presents the Star Child that will succeed him, some say that the final death of the Emperor will leave humanity wide open to attack. Whatever happens, it will change everything, and there are many in the Imperium who desire stability for its own sake.

The fate of the Emperor is one of the primary bones of contention amongst those few in the know, and a primary point of the Inquisitor game.

Sleazy
11-07-2006, 12:48
so the "Emperor is just an empty husk "admittedly making a canny lighthouse"?

A neutral shade of black.
11-07-2006, 12:53
so the "Emperor is just an empty husk "admittedly making a canny lighthouse"?

Not only that, but also tethering the Star Child to the mortal world and preventing it from ascending to godhood.

It's because the man who was the Emperor still lives (barely so) on the physical plane that the God-Emperor is limited to giving good luck to one person every once in a while. Unplugging the throne will result in the Emperor's physical death - whether the Star Child or humanity's annihilation will result of that death is unknown. Probably a bit of both, if you ask me, in that it'll take the Star Child a while to collect itself, time during which humanity will be at the mercy of the whole galaxy. Not that they're in that good a position right now, anyway.

Dspankdo
11-07-2006, 13:10
If there is a starchild then i think there will be a repeat of the great crusade exept this time round they'll follow in macharius's footsteps and push beyond the galactic rim.

Lord Dante
11-07-2006, 14:35
Without the throne room Warp travel isnt possible - so I guess the Emp made a choice when asking Dorn to build the throne.
Stay as a husk and keep Warp travel open, whilst using his half god like status to hold back the entire will of chaos and everything else funky boo boo in the galaxy.
Nice chap, I met him once on the way home from skegness...

Dspankdo
11-07-2006, 14:54
its not that warp travel isn't possible without the astronomican its just much harder and you can't make long jumps, how do you think they got around during the great crusade.

Lord Dante
11-07-2006, 15:06
With the emperor as a guiding light to the astropaths - Wihtout him in the throne there would be no light to guide them, or realistically give them a point of reference I pressume.
If he wasnt kept somewhat alive in the throne and fed psykers everyday then we would lose the ablity.
So yes Warp travel is very possible but as you say it would be almost impposible to traverse the huge distance that Emperor allows.

Crazy Tom
11-07-2006, 16:04
I don't think the Emperor has to die, as such, but the Imperium is doomed if it follows its current path of fear and oppression. I think the best thing that could happed for the Imperium (barring the birth of the Star Child / return of the Emperor) would be for one of the lost Primachs to return. They would shake up the stagnant society and bring it back to the Emperor's true path. Granted, they'd have to deal with the fanaticism of the Ecclesiarchy and wade through the beurocracy of the Ministorum, but the whole of the Adeptus Astartes would flock behind the banner of a returned Primach. A Primach would first sort out the internal problems of the Empire - a focus on new and advanced technology, more freedom for the populace and so forth - before defending the Imperium. They'd have next to no opposition - no Imperial Guardsmen would stand against them, no Inquisitor would be able to take them down - though they might have to watch out for the Cadillus Assassins.

Emperor's Grace
11-07-2006, 16:37
There is also the possibility that the Emperor himself did not fully understand what would happen upon his death. Some fluff presents the Star Child that will succeed him, some say that the final death of the Emperor will leave humanity wide open to attack. Whatever happens, it will change everything, and there are many in the Imperium who desire stability for its own sake.

The fate of the Emperor is one of the primary bones of contention amongst those few in the know, and a primary point of the Inquisitor game.

Or he did know... and could not take the golden path. Hate to bring up Dune again but Paul shunned it when he realized exactly what was required. It took his son Leto II to "correct" things.

Zzarchov
11-07-2006, 17:26
Unless the inquisition said the primarch had been tainted by chaos.

A neutral shade of black.
11-07-2006, 18:02
Unless the inquisition said the primarch had been tainted by chaos.

That would be the Inquisition's death warrant, and the death warrant of the Imperium. 95% of the chapters would switch to the primarch's side along with a good deal of the rest of the Imperium. They would just be losing precious resources and time.

Buddha777
11-07-2006, 18:24
I always thought the golden throne was thought to be a temporary soulution to the problem of a dying man that turned into a way for the high lords to keep their power. I think more likley that if the emperor's body was just allowed to die his essence would still be allowed to reincarnate himself. But such a return is the last thing many individuals would like to see. Of course, many of the luxuries associated with the golden such as the astonomicon would be elminated thus furthering the drive to keep the emperor incapciated.

But I have little doubt that if the emperor were to reawaken or even one of his sons to return there would be little stopping it. One could view the loyalty of the immperium to the service of one's country. That is, they are loyal to the country (or at least should be) not the leaders. But I can only imagine the disgust that would result from see what the grand vision of the emperor for mankind had turned into.

muskrat
11-07-2006, 18:25
Yeah, I would definitely say a Primarch- the genetic son of the Emporer- would garner hell of a lot more clout than the Inquisition. Worlds would riot against the Imperium if one of the Emporer's own children was declared a traitor- remember that the traitor legions themselves are kept in secrecry, and also that those Primarchs aren't being venerated on a daily basis by the Imperium.

As for the Emporer dying, I don't see why you need both the shrivelled husk of a man, and 10000 psykers to keep the beacon going. Why not throw on a few more brains on the pyre to compensate?

Kymar
11-07-2006, 18:47
As for the Emporer dying, I don't see why you need both the shrivelled husk of a man, and 10000 psykers to keep the beacon going. Why not throw on a few more brains on the pyre to compensate?

I like the of the brain pyre, but I think they need the Emperor to keep the beacon going. The 10000 psykers "pray" to the emperor and give him their life to create the Astronomican. Perhaps they could do it on belief alone, but it would be alot harder to focus without the Emperor, or at least the idea that the Emperor is in control.

Eversor
11-07-2006, 23:06
:skull: Regarding warp travel: The Astronomican does not originate from the Emperor; it is maintained by the psychic choir alone. I'm not sure where this misconception comes from, but I'm betting it's from some piece of 3:rd edition background initially, as well as mixing it up with the third-rate psykers sacrificed to the Golden Throne.

Minister
11-07-2006, 23:27
There exists a theory, one which is held in-universe by many (and the Navigis Nobilitae in particular) that the Emperor directs the Astronomican in some manner. Whether it is true or not is unknown and probably irrelevant.

Krusk
11-07-2006, 23:47
If a primarch returned, you might just get a civil war, which would be nasty.

Kensai X
12-07-2006, 05:07
I'm actually currently working on creating an End game scenario if you will that will determine the outcome of the universe if you will. I have currently have the idea to bring the Imperium to its knees with another Great Civil War between Astartes and it all begins with the return of a beloved primarch. In fact I'm looking to induct some Warseers in helping me pan the idea out...

But anyways currently I believe the husk of the Emperor is just that a husk. The High Lords and the Inquistion mearly keep him alive so that the Astronomican can be powered and the Imperium can function. As I much as I hate to say in this regard I think Sabertooth fluff makes more sense in the fact the that the Golden Throne was built to provide an Imperial Webway and the plan drastically backfired and led to the current situation. I then combine this fluff with that of which makes the spirit of the Emperor possesses Cypher and the Star Child is reborn and all that jazz and what not...

Khaine's Messenger
12-07-2006, 05:32
is mankind not unwittingly stopping him from ascending to godhood himself and being in a position to fight the chaos gods on a level plane

Eh. Personally, I would say no. While the surest route to allowing the Emperor to ascend to full godhood would probably be to shut down the Golden Throne, it would be akin to throwing Ynnaed into the deep end before he can wade on the steps. The Emperor is fully capable of investing others with fragments of his will (if the Thorians are to be believed), which is just as good as godhood imho, and the "crippled old man" routine is pretty clever.

All the full ascension of the Emperor will do is change the nature of the game, and probably for the worse. It would hardly make things any better for anyone, and is no more an auto-win (like in Dogma) than the Ynnaed project.

MrLiy
12-07-2006, 17:37
The Cadillus Asassins the Cadillacs of Asassins!!!
Sorry I couldnt resist.

back to topic.
We all want for the empire to once again be the light of the universe, spreading freedom, justice and the imperial way. Judging by the fluff though this will never happen. The emperor as others have stated made a choice and that was to keep to give the imperium a relative level of stability. Letting himself die in order to maybe be born again is too high of a risk. While theres a chance that he may return and help humanity meet its destiny, theres probably a bigger chance that humans would be overwhelmed without him and be beaten into extinction.

or....
maybe he was just a self-serving bastard and wanted immortality through the golden throne and to keep ruling the empire. Maybe he's just another human that tried to delay his inevitable by nature death.

muskrat
12-07-2006, 21:54
Heisn't ruling crap at this point, so I doubt it. But I'd be willing to help flesh out an endgame type scenario.

For the Imperial webway- I think he was more trying to break into the Eldar one. Hell, I'm suprised he didn't send an envoy to them to attempt to form an alliance and free use of it.

Like those aliens that (i think) were mentioned in the Imperial Fists Ia, who were bred purely for their role in their scoiety, be it underwater warrior, artisan, or leader. The Emporer was going to make them a protectorate, because of the huge waste of time and manpower it would be for 1 world. But them Dorn stomped em in three days...somehow.

Temmy
12-07-2006, 23:47
The Emperor may not be ready to ascend to godhood. Assuming there is something forming in warp around the Emperor's soul (given the amount of worship he gets, there has to be) it may not have enough critical mass to forma fully awakened warp power. If the Emperor dies prematurely and his mind is united with his soul in the warp, the entity will be unable to withstand the onslaught from the other powers of chaos.

I think things have to get unbearably bad, with untold billions of humans dying and suffering and their cries for salvation filling the warp with emotions in order for the Emperor's soul to get that final mass that it needs. At this time the Emperor may well die, and then a new warp power will awaken. Then the real war begins.

Minister
13-07-2006, 00:48
There's also the old monster of the Imperial Civil War thread from Portent, in which the merest possibility of the Emperor's resurection split humanity on a level that eclipsed the Horus Heresy.

Loki
13-07-2006, 00:54
In the Inquisitor book, it is said he CAN be brought back to life, but like how Minister said, it could start another war.

MrLiy
13-07-2006, 01:56
could there be a mysterious Da Vinci codesque vibe going on?!

n00bLord
13-07-2006, 02:06
If he did come back than it would make things really really different for the game. Its like an ominous power that you only hear about in whispers.

Ktotwf
15-04-2007, 21:53
Necrons and Tyranids be damned if the Emperor is resurrected.

I pretty much imagine that, if the story ever reaches a conclusion, this is where it is headed.

Vesica
15-04-2007, 23:54
im going to back the greedy high lords keeping him contained idea, i rekon he would be reborn if they let him die.

the solution to the problem would be all the SM chapters finding out the heresy been conducted by the high lords and boom civil war