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Turgol
28-05-2016, 20:22
So fantasy has been pretty much dead on the GW story in my area since AoS came out. Some people collected armies, but very little to no battles in store. I went to the store today and to my surprise there was not only a WQ game going on, but also two or three AoS games. Iam not sure how this happened, maybe AoS had started to spark interest sooner, but most likely the whole WQ release has had a revitalizing impact in the fantasy GW community. How has it done in your region?

Banville
28-05-2016, 20:44
No change whatsoever. Kings of War is the only fantasy game in town.

Vazalaar
28-05-2016, 20:51
You should have added a poll.;)

I think Warhammer Quest will have a positive impact for AoS in the long run. Atleast I suspect that more AoS clampacks will be bought.

Hoffa
28-05-2016, 20:53
Everyone here plays 9:th age.

Niall78
28-05-2016, 21:06
Kings of War here still. WQ:ST didn't really register with the board game crowd. Price was off the wall compared to competing products.

2DSick
28-05-2016, 22:00
You should have added a poll.;)


Haha, where would we be without the bimonthly AoS...ish poll? XD

I know a whole bunch of folk who are interested in it, a hand full who have bought it and only a couple are dissapointed with it.

I won't bother. WHQ and HQ were two of my first ever wargames around 22 years ago. Not sure I want to ruin those memories XD like going back to play N64's Goldeneye only to find that you can't play it at all becasue the controls are horrible! XD

To give it one of my terrible analogies, I'd go with;

It's made a drop in the pond but it's already raining pretty hard!

Teurastaja
28-05-2016, 22:26
One guy bought it. We tried it. Nothing changed, no one here cares about AoS. We play 9th Age.

Spiney Norman
28-05-2016, 23:24
It's definitely having an impact, we had two games of WHQ running last week with four players to each game and another one planned for this week, most of those playing were not already AoS players and were either new to the hobby entirely or at least not previous wfb players, the attitude around the games was extremely positive and several people were talking about starting small AoS warbands based on their WHQ tzeentch figures.

Yodhrin
29-05-2016, 00:15
I know a few folk like myself who bitz-ordered the usable parts of the box for WHF, chiefly Mordheim gaming, and a few more who got a bout of nostalgia feelies and started up some new games of WHQ using the original version, but the only ones who seem hyped about the new WHQ are the same handful of ex-40K guys who were already hyped about AoS, although they're the kind who buy boxes just to put them on a shelf and never open them so I imagine GW doesn't care about the rest of us as long as they keep forking over enough cash for three normal people.

de Selby
29-05-2016, 00:19
I don't think anyone in my group bought it. I thought about it but I've bought too much stuff this year. after we gave up on age of sigmar I bought loads of figs for frostgrave, so no money for whq. unfortunately the knock on effect has been the wrong way round.

Smooth Boy
29-05-2016, 03:18
For a while I was tempted to buy it and just swap the AoS stuff for Fantasy appropriate miniatures, but Blood Bowl put me off. I can only justify a few of these Ģ100 boxed games and since I know BB is out very soon I'm hanging on for that. I think maybe GW is giving us too much of a good thing, every few month a new boxed set is out and no one is getting them all are they?

smaxx
29-05-2016, 08:49
No. It has a Sigmarine on the cover, so not interested.

Whirlwind
29-05-2016, 10:15
So fantasy has been pretty much dead on the GW story in my area since AoS came out. Some people collected armies, but very little to no battles in store. I went to the store today and to my surprise there was not only a WQ game going on, but also two or three AoS games. Iam not sure how this happened, maybe AoS had started to spark interest sooner, but most likely the whole WQ release has had a revitalizing impact in the fantasy GW community. How has it done in your region?

I doubt AoSQ has had that much of an impact because of its relative lack of being advertised to the wider world. However I might suggest that Total War: Warhammer could be another alternative reason for the influx if they are new players. Although not massed battles (and GW has missed a trick here) it will get free advertising and potentially people interested and looking into it (Karl Franz on Griffon is currently out of stock and is a large model priced reasonably). The question is whether this is a temporary blip as people check it out or whether it helps GW build a newer player base?

Vazalaar
29-05-2016, 12:34
I doubt AoSQ has had that much of an impact because of its relative lack of being advertised to the wider world. However I might suggest that Total War: Warhammer could be another alternative reason for the influx if they are new players. Although not massed battles (and GW has missed a trick here) it will get free advertising and potentially people interested and looking into it (Karl Franz on Griffon is currently out of stock and is a large model priced reasonably). The question is whether this is a temporary blip as people check it out or whether it helps GW build a newer player base?

If Karl Franz is temporally out of stock because of TW: Warhammer players, than GW hopefully realizes at last what we all knew for months... . That they were stupid to kill of the old world, when finally a fantastic Warhammer game is released that portrays the old world and mass battles in a fantastic way.

Felwether
29-05-2016, 12:38
Two of us got it and there's been a lot of interest from others with them sprucing up old character models or picking up new ones to use in the game.

I'm not sure it'll encourage many people to start up AoS but it certainly has me tempted...

EDIT: Actually It's probably the rumoured General's Handbook that has me more tempted.

Kahadras
29-05-2016, 12:48
Nobody I know has picked it up yet; even those who are only interested in board games. Somebody in the Sunday club might have splashed out on a copy but TBH GW has been pretty dead for the last year or so among my friends. 40K is currently considered to be a mess and Age of Sigmar was pretty much DOA. I wouldn't mind playing a game to see what it's like but there's no way in hell I'm going to pay Ģ95 for a game that might get played once or twice then sits on a shelf for the next few years.

Vazalaar
29-05-2016, 13:06
The flgs I regular visit said that AoS sales are bad, but that Silver Tower is doing much better than previous AoS releases.

ColShaw
29-05-2016, 13:51
No impact as of yet in the Twin Cities South Metro, Minnesota.

veterannoob
29-05-2016, 13:59
It has, so even more opponents. A Warhammer store opened last weekend back home and after opening and WHQ there's a whole body of AoS players we never knew about since they didn't play at the FLGSs. Really looking forward to new opponents and what they field.

BeardMonk
29-05-2016, 14:39
WQST may make an appearance in our club in our little corner of Essex/London as we like a board game/RPG. But AOS as a game has never made it into our club. We are WM/H, Malifaux, Infinity, X wing and 40K for the kids

stroller
29-05-2016, 15:34
Local theme is: couple of completers have bought it straight off the bat. Others: "looks nice: will think about it..." I'll play it first and then see.... No effect on AoS that I can observe.

Finnigan2004
29-05-2016, 16:20
The price is insane. I don't think enough people will buy it to make any impact.

Adam_Barrow
29-05-2016, 16:55
Not a bit. All boxes still sitting unsold. RIP GW fantasy games around here.

Darnok
29-05-2016, 17:34
I bought a box of WHQ:ST, but would still not touch AoS wit the proverbial ten-inch pole.

For me it's a nice opportunity to go through my collection with the thought of "What models could make cool heroes to use in ST?". I also like to think of the Silver Tower as being part of the Warhammer world - only the Sigmarine needs a bit of handwaving to explain, the rest works perfectly fine in the WHF setting.

I have no intentions whatsoever to build an army around the WHQ models though.

Malagor
29-05-2016, 17:51
Looks like a few boxes has been sold in my local game store but still no one playing AoS so I'm pretty sure that the people that bought it are playing it at home.

Finnigan2004
30-05-2016, 00:13
I think that they really squandered their reputation as game designers with the AOS debacle (there are other things, but that was the real kicker). I'm really hoping that they don't mess up Blood Bowl next year, and leave the current rule set more or less untouched. It's still my favorite game of all time.

Kahadras
30-05-2016, 01:12
I'm really hoping that they don't mess up Blood Bowl next year.

Same here. A reprinted Bloodbowl would be awesome. A Bloodbowl that pits Sigmarines vs Fyreslayers less so.

Darnok
30-05-2016, 04:32
It has already been said that the rules will be a reprint of the "current" edition. The two first teams (Orcs and Humans) were also shown already.

Since BB has always been part of an alternate reality in the WFB world, I doubt there will be any bakground issues at all. Even if it is set in an AoS-like setting: why would you care?

ntw3001
30-05-2016, 04:44
AoS could have an extra realm stuck on. The Realm of Sports, where all the sports spinoff games are set. Blood Bowl, Warhammer Kart, Sigmar Golf: Shimmertarn Tour and so forth.

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Ronin[XiC]
30-05-2016, 06:14
Or just don't do that and have BB stay in its old original world.

Urgat
30-05-2016, 06:55
Even if it is set in an AoS-like setting: why would you care?

Well:


No. It has a Sigmarine on the cover, so not interested.

Apparently it's vital to some.

Spiney Norman
30-05-2016, 07:31
It has already been said that the rules will be a reprint of the "current" edition. The two first teams (Orcs and Humans) were also shown already.

Since BB has always been part of an alternate reality in the WFB world, I doubt there will be any bakground issues at all. Even if it is set in an AoS-like setting: why would you care?

Well for BB I would really rather still call my old team 'lizardmen', instead of 'Seraphon' but I guess it doesn't make too much difference...

HammerofThunor
30-05-2016, 09:06
I have no idea what the local scene is but my brother has got it and played with a few people down south. Thy thought it was good. He's now thinking of using the chaos stuff as the start of an AoS Warband. We've both been playing since early 90s and hI had to put with an hour rant over the phone when they kills the old world and that fantasy was dead to him. So it's helped him.

Turgol
30-05-2016, 09:31
I bought a box of WHQ:ST, but would still not touch AoS wit the proverbial ten-inch pole.

For me it's a nice opportunity to go through my collection with the thought of "What models could make cool heroes to use in ST?". I also like to think of the Silver Tower as being part of the Warhammer world - only the Sigmarine needs a bit of handwaving to explain, the rest works perfectly fine in the WHF setting.

I have no intentions whatsoever to build an army around the WHQ models though.

Well this is true, as the ST setting is mostly a realm of chaos setting. Sure: it is built around the 8 mortal realms, but those are also the 8 winds of magic that actually originate in the realm of chaos, so it works as good or maybe even better than as an AoS setting.

Still I'am not quite sure all heroes fit as Warhammer heroes. The Sigmarine certainly does not. I would also say the dwarf doesn't; he is not really a WH slayer. Barbarian and priest seem more of Warhammer heroes than AoS, so they work perfectly. Both elves are on the middle. The shard is a cool idea for a dark elf army and the mistweaver is pretty much a HE or WE grey mage. If I were playing like you, I would simply never touch the sigmarine and Fyreslayers heroes and play with the rest.

SimaoSegunda
30-05-2016, 09:44
We've had an AoS community here more or less since release, albeit mostly on a small scale. Silver tower sparked a fair amount of interest, with several players buying boxes. One or two I know bought just for the board game itself, others (like myself) bought it for the game, but now intend to work the models into existing AoS warbands, and I know a couple of people who haven't really played since AoS hit, who have bought the game and intend to start a Tzeentch army from the models. I would say it has definitely had a positive reception around here, and could expand the AoS player base a little.

kericmason
30-05-2016, 15:31
It doesn't look like the launch went well from the independent US retailer point of view:

http://icv2.com/articles/columns/view/34601/rolling-initiative-warhammer-quest-the-release-weekend-a-post-mortem

de Selby
30-05-2016, 22:43
Interesting. I think the boxed games are some of the better stuff GW has released recently, so I wonder what that means for their other lines.

vlad78
30-05-2016, 23:03
I bought a box of WHQ:ST, but would still not touch AoS wit the proverbial ten-inch pole.

For me it's a nice opportunity to go through my collection with the thought of "What models could make cool heroes to use in ST?". I also like to think of the Silver Tower as being part of the Warhammer world - only the Sigmarine needs a bit of handwaving to explain, the rest works perfectly fine in the WHF setting.

I have no intentions whatsoever to build an army around the WHQ models though.

Same, but I'll replace all the AOS specific characters. But time will tell if it has any affect.

DVeight
31-05-2016, 04:11
Friend of mine bought the board game. I will no doubt play though there is scarce interest amongst our gaming group so having a game will be hard. Don't think it would be enjoyable for just two players. So, to date no game yet and my friend is shifting focus on just the models. If people are buying for just the models.... that's a pretty expensive buy in.

Darnok
31-05-2016, 04:34
Still I'am not quite sure all heroes fit as Warhammer heroes. The Sigmarine certainly does not. I would also say the dwarf doesn't; he is not really a WH slayer.

I know others feel differently, but for me and in this case it is not that big of a deal. I pretend the Sigmarine is the commander of a Sigmar-devoted Knightly Order, while the Dwarf is still basically a Slayer to me.

I also like the idea that the Sigmarine could jut come from a different reality (i.e. one were AoS exists), while WHQ itself still exists in the "Old World".

Yodhrin
31-05-2016, 14:08
I know others feel differently, but for me and in this case it is not that big of a deal. I pretend the Sigmarine is the commander of a Sigmar-devoted Knightly Order, while the Dwarf is still basically a Slayer to me.

I also like the idea that the Sigmarine could jut come from a different reality (i.e. one were AoS exists), while WHQ itself still exists in the "Old World".

I've never understood why GW felt the need to create a whole new reality to have big golden-suited Land Marines. I mean you literally have a city in your setting called Prague, a setting that is often at its best when creating a pastiche of history, actual myth, and fantasy, and the word "Golem" didn't pop into the heads of anyone at GW Towers? Magical constructs forged from Gromril alloy by Dwarfen smiths, awakened with a prayer and the touch of Ghal-Maraz to defend the faithful from Chaos. Throw in an early-End Times-ish siege of Prague(except not, you know, setting-endingly hopeless), starving citizens, priest having visions etc narrative and boom, Sigmarines.

Personally I'm not fond of them so wouldn't have bothered, but there are ways to include them in WHF without breaking things, at least in limited numbers.

williamsond
31-05-2016, 14:16
Haven't tried it as I'm not interested in wq AoS.
if had been a straight re release of wq like the new space hulk was I might have given it a go,but as it stands too AoS and too expensive. I currently get my warhammer board game fix from old heroquest or dungeon saga. As for its effect on war hammer scene no real change still AoS free.

Bingo the Fun Monkey
31-05-2016, 14:33
AoS could have an extra realm stuck on. The Realm of Sports, where all the sports spinoff games are set. Blood Bowl, Warhammer Kart, Sigmar Golf: Shimmertarn Tour and so forth.

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I know this was a joke but I would be all about Warhammer Golf: Shimmertarn Tour. I can picture an orruk, a fyreslayer, a sigmarine and a chaos lord all sporting kilts with assorted spiky or golden golf clubs and caddies (grot, kegbearer, flagellant, familiar, respectively).

Sent from my SM-T310 using Tapatalk

Skargit Crookfang
31-05-2016, 16:12
Gaming scene? No.

Myself? yep- been enjoying it with my wife and a few friends and plan on bulk ordering acolytes to turn into a "Barbarian army" for 9th Age.

Plebian
31-05-2016, 18:18
Only KoW at my FLGS. They don't even carry GW fantasy models anymore.

Ben
31-05-2016, 23:56
At my club no impact, tonights games were 5 Bolt Action, 3 X wing, 2 40k, 1 Gates of Antares (me running it for the first time), the new FFG Star Wars board game, DBM (getting really groggy there), some board games and 2 people playing a card game (possibly magic, not looked at magic in 15 years?).

So no, still no Age of Sigmar. But I am only in the second most populous city in the UK, there could be thousands of people playing it in rural Wales or something. I heard someone did play it at the club once last year though, and someone this year asked about running a game of it, but no one was interested.

Sureshot05
01-06-2016, 11:29
Price point is just a bit too high given the limited replayability that I've been seeing. Though if i did get a set I'd replace the SigMarine with a Bret knight on foot and the slayer would have the armour filed off (or replaced with the AoW slayer). However, when its a hundred quid, I can't justify the purchase for something I have to modify to make something i'd enjoy. If it were cheaper (and I am already factoring the FLGS discount) then I would have picked it up. However, there are cheaper and more exciting releases from other board game companies which are taking my money.

duffybear1988
01-06-2016, 13:11
I looked at the box but then decided to buy Total War: Warhammer instead.

Dr.Zahnfleisch
01-06-2016, 13:29
Same here, bought Vermintide and Warhammer: Total War instead plus I got my hands on Sigvald and a few (cheap) Juan Diaz Daemonettes via ebay. That about satisfies my need for anything warhammer right now.

At first I consdered buying ST, but the other stuff seemed just a better value poposition.

Arrahed
01-06-2016, 13:45
I looked at the box but then decided to buy Total War: Warhammer instead.
That is exactly what I did. :D

Folomo
01-06-2016, 14:59
I looked at the box but then decided to buy Total War: Warhammer instead.

Did the same but I shouldn't have bought it. :rolleyes:
I have played it like 30-40 hours in the last week (and have never played a TW game before).
The game has such a vibrant atmosphere :eek:

Gorbad Ironclaw
01-06-2016, 19:11
It seems to have done okay at my club. There was a game this week and a game last week and I think there are 3 or 4 copies floating around. It haven't really drawn in anyone wgo wasn't already playing wfb/AoS/40k but who knows. Although my expectation is that it will be played for a couple of weeks and then probably disappear again .

rmeister0
01-06-2016, 20:19
Interesting. I think the boxed games are some of the better stuff GW has released recently, so I wonder what that means for their other lines.

Better perhaps, but priced in the stratosphere for a board game you can't play until you assemble the pieces.

As usual, grain of salt, insignificant statistical sample, does not include GW stores, et al.

2DSick
02-06-2016, 00:25
Screw ST! This is by far teh best warhammer board game I've played ina long time; https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/chaos-in-the-old-world/

played twice this week!

Arrahed
02-06-2016, 08:28
Screw ST! This is by far teh best warhammer board game I've played ina long time; https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/chaos-in-the-old-world/
played twice this week!
But its only $60. You cannot make a good game for only $60, can you? ;)
Ironically, I actually thought about getting that game but I thought $60 was quite steep for a board game.

Archibald_TK
02-06-2016, 10:05
If Karl Franz is temporally out of stock because of TW: Warhammer players, than GW hopefully realizes at last what we all knew for months... .
Alas issues with the Griffin are unrelated to TW. That model is just part of those that have been recently removed from order forms so it's either a question of it ending up direct only in the near future or simply being repackaged. Actually, the release of the Grand Alliance books didn't secure the shelf presence of the models presented inside, on the contrary, since then the pace at which models disappear from our order forms has increased IMO.

Regarding the thread original question, there was no visible impact of ST here. I actually went light on my first order as I was fearing nostalgia would make the Internet considerably more enthusiast toward the game than reality would prove to be. And indeed sales of ST were nothing impressive at all. In the end, there is only so much you can do by releasing a costly box toward the end of a month. The incoming week end will be far more telling about the success of the game IMO.

Horace35
02-06-2016, 10:06
Did the same but I shouldn't have bought it. :rolleyes:
I have played it like 30-40 hours in the last week (and have never played a TW game before).
The game has such a vibrant atmosphere :eek:

My hobby time has taken a severe hit since this game came out. Like you say the Old World just comes alive. Loving it and can't wait to throw my money at all the DLC which will follow

blackcherry
02-06-2016, 10:33
like going back to play N64's Goldeneye only to find that you can't play it at all becasue the controls are horrible! XD

To give it one of my terrible analogies, I'd go with;

Lies! It still holds up and never needs to be changed :mad:

Oh god, I've turned into an old beard :(


;)

csb
02-06-2016, 14:50
I've never understood why GW felt the need to create a whole new reality to have big golden-suited Land Marines. I mean you literally have a city in your setting called Prague, a setting that is often at its best when creating a pastiche of history, actual myth, and fantasy, and the word "Golem" didn't pop into the heads of anyone at GW Towers? Magical constructs forged from Gromril alloy by Dwarfen smiths, awakened with a prayer and the touch of Ghal-Maraz to defend the faithful from Chaos. Throw in an early-End Times-ish siege of Prague(except not, you know, setting-endingly hopeless), starving citizens, priest having visions etc narrative and boom, Sigmarines.

Personally I'm not fond of them so wouldn't have bothered, but there are ways to include them in WHF without breaking things, at least in limited numbers.

Because they thought that it needed more than just Not-Spacemarines to sell as much as 40k. So they had to add a Not-God-Emperor and a Not-Galactic-Empire and so forth. Not to mention that they could Copyright everything now.

Apart from that, I don't think Sigmarines fit in the old World. Not with their present looks, which is really somewhere in between old Star Trek, Flash Gordon and probably a lot of other things that have nothing in common with the old World-Setting.

When I first read rumors last year about some elite warriors of Sigmar I thought about full plate armour-Knights or something like that, but certainly not golden Spacemarines.

2DSick
02-06-2016, 17:54
Lies! It still holds up and never needs to be changed :mad:

Oh god, I've turned into an old beard :(


;)

I only wish they were!

We played it a few years back and I must have spent the whole.hour or so, spinning round in circles with my gun pointed at the ceiling or floor XD

Must be too used to.modern fps controls!

Tokamak
02-06-2016, 18:33
Only KoW at my FLGS. They don't even carry GW fantasy models anymore.

Clever move. New comers don't care about the brand so might as well carry a range that doesn't mess with retailers.

Angelwing
02-06-2016, 19:13
Silver Tower hasn't even been mentioned in my gaming circles, so no impact at all.

DYoung
02-06-2016, 20:44
I only wish they were!

We played it a few years back and I must have spent the whole.hour or so, spinning round in circles with my gun pointed at the ceiling or floor XD

Must be too used to.modern fps controls!

One of the control configurations is essentially modern fps controls, I forget which one though.

As for whether ST has impacted my gaming community: Since my gaming community consists of my brother and I only and he managed to talk me into getting ST and the expansion I guess it has... although technically I guess I'm still not playing AoS.

Finnigan2004
04-06-2016, 05:41
It has already been said that the rules will be a reprint of the "current" edition. The two first teams (Orcs and Humans) were also shown already.

Since BB has always been part of an alternate reality in the WFB world, I doubt there will be any bakground issues at all. Even if it is set in an AoS-like setting: why would you care?

For me, it would mean a lot. The new designs are not my thing, but more than that the setting of Blood Bowl is important, and it is hilarious and amazing. It means a lot in terms of interest in the game. As much as bad rules, I reject AOS for bad fluff. Changing the Blood Bowl setting is just salt in the wound for the many of us who see AOS as an abomination. There is no room for Sigmarines in a Blood Bowl game that I play.

Claymore
04-06-2016, 09:04
None really, local shops have only really sold a few copies the store I visit the most still has 12 out off the 15 he ordered left.

It's basically to expensive for the board gamers hell you can even get war of the ring for nearly half the price and the local AOS community is more or less none existent, the game just doesn't have the betrayal at caith appeal.

Ben
04-06-2016, 15:55
What's the cheapest you guys have seen it at? There's a shop dumping their copies at the UK Games Expo for Ģ70, which is Ģ25 off.

No store at the Expo is stocking AoS at all. 40k is on a couple of stands. A lot of companies are their plugging their stuff and running demos. As it is now the UK equivalent of Essen I was actually surprised to see no one from GW there at all.

Also the 40k tournament is a fraction of the size of the X wing tournament, though still bigger than the Epic tournament and the Dystopian Wars tournament, which is in the same side room.

The X-wing tournament has 300 players.

Captain Marius
04-06-2016, 19:53
I went halves with my regular gaming buddy on silver tower and the mighty heroes box, we spent the whole bank holiday weekend assembling and playing through 7 of the 9 scenarios. Currently we're painting everything up for the last two scenarios, and the next playthrough with all different heroes. Neither of us has downloaded the app yet as there are more than enough options with just the main set and the one expansion. In half of the scenarios we played we didn't even encounter the rooms that give you bonuses in the final battle, a side effect of getting the rooms with three exits early on, so theres plenty of stuff we havent done yet to enjoy on a replay.

mightymconeshot
05-06-2016, 02:43
What's the cheapest you guys have seen it at? There's a shop dumping their copies at the UK Games Expo for Ģ70, which is Ģ25 off.

The X-wing tournament has 300 players.

In the US there are a couple copies going for 85 dollars and up. Most of the 85 dollars don't include shipping which means most are about 95 dollars after shipping ( or with shipping including). Which averages to about 35% off.

Holier Than Thou
05-06-2016, 06:47
What's the cheapest you guys have seen it at? There's a shop dumping their copies at the UK Games Expo for Ģ70, which is Ģ25 off.

No store at the Expo is stocking AoS at all. 40k is on a couple of stands. A lot of companies are their plugging their stuff and running demos. As it is now the UK equivalent of Essen I was actually surprised to see no one from GW there at all.

Also the 40k tournament is a fraction of the size of the X wing tournament, though still bigger than the Epic tournament and the Dystopian Wars tournament, which is in the same side room.

The X-wing tournament has 300 players.

414 players total for the X-Wing Yavin Open, it was the biggest X-Wing tournament ever. The CEO from FFG gave a wee speech at the start thanking everyone for their support. Only bad thing about it was I didn't make the cut for the second day today (wasn't expecting to but after winning my first two games I got delusions of grandeur). :( haha They are, however, running a second mini tournament today for the players who didn't qualify with additional prize support.

Ben
05-06-2016, 08:00
414 players total for the X-Wing Yavin Open, it was the biggest X-Wing tournament ever. The CEO from FFG gave a wee speech at the start thanking everyone for their support. Only bad thing about it was I didn't make the cut for the second day today (wasn't expecting to but after winning my first two games I got delusions of grandeur). :( haha They are, however, running a second mini tournament today for the players who didn't qualify with additional prize support.

So only 20 times more players than the 40k tournament.

Evil Hypnotist
06-06-2016, 09:51
9th Age dominates the fantasy games at my club, I bought WQ:ST and enjoyed giving it a go with the others but I can't see that encouraging more AoS. What might do that is the new FLGS in town, they have even convinced me to have a demo of AoS in the near future :O.

Tuatha Dar
06-06-2016, 10:24
I know others feel differently, but for me and in this case it is not that big of a deal. I pretend the Sigmarine is the commander of a Sigmar-devoted Knightly Order, while the Dwarf is still basically a Slayer to me.

I also like the idea that the Sigmarine could jut come from a different reality (i.e. one were AoS exists), while WHQ itself still exists in the "Old World".

How did you base the sigmarine?
It seems like he'd never fit on a 20mm base.

Yowzo
06-06-2016, 11:25
How did you base the sigmarine?
It seems like he'd never fit on a 20mm base.

You can do some clever stuff with raised terrain like this:

228234

Darnok
06-06-2016, 20:09
How did you base the sigmarine?
It seems like he'd never fit on a 20mm base.

I'm talking about WHQ only, and changed my mind back to "use the actual round bases". You can put a Sigmarine on a 25mm square base though.

Tuatha Dar
06-06-2016, 20:57
I'm talking about WHQ only, and changed my mind back to "use the actual round bases". You can put a Sigmarine on a 25mm square base though.

Ah, got it. I misunderstood.
Okay so you just used the game's round bases.
Thanks,

WLBjork
12-06-2016, 17:53
It's not too bad. Plays fairly well and reasonably quickly. Not looked at AoS though.

Casting Light of Sigmar in the (almost full) Alchemists' Chamber is hilarious, by the way. I'll happily take 8 renown from the mass explosions I caused :evilgrin:

Archibald_TK
12-06-2016, 21:18
Enough days have passed that I can say that things didn't go well here. Even if my expectations were less enthusiastic than many other posters, that's still very disappointing. Maybe it's because we have such a large range of board games at the store that it neuters the demand for a similar GW product. Or maybe it could be any other reason from a basic "people not interested" to pricing issues... Who knows, it's too soon for me to really analyze the "why", all I can see is the result as the game is not selling well.

So alas you can guess the impact it had on our community here: nothing, nada. While it would have been more than welcome, or shall I even say needed, it didn't end up causing any visible renewed interest into AoS.

Vazalaar
13-06-2016, 16:57
Disappointing, I would have thought that Silver Tower would have done better. I bought it, but my interest for AoS is still low.. . I do hope that in the end Silver Tower will be succesful for GW, as I want to see more expansions for it.

williamsond
14-06-2016, 08:16
I think a few more of my gaming community would have picked it up if it was "warhammer quest", but the AoS branding of warhammer quest has put a lot of people off. The sigmarine just seems to be toxic to some people.

Agrimax
14-06-2016, 12:33
I was toying with getting Silver Tower. Then the remainder of my Zombicide: Black Plague kickstarter stuff turned up; the realisation of just what a vast gulf there was in terms of value (my pledge worked out about the same cost, but included expansion and dozens of additional models - granted maybe not GW quality and with a lot of duplicate sculpts, but very nice anyway) just completely killed any further thought of getting it.

Coincidentally the same company has another dungeoncrawler kickstarter on the go at the moment, so if I was going to get another game I'd be looking there first. Though of course that model of delivery months down the road probably doesn't suit the GW impulsive "must have now" dynamic anyway.... but it's what they're up against in terms of value proposition in the board game arena, for anyone not already wrapped up in the AoS setting.

Zywus
14-06-2016, 13:11
The sigmarine just seems to be toxic to some people.
True. He is a powerful symbol of everything people hate about AoS and GW's recent actions.

It's unfortunate that WQ:ST is tarnished by it's connection to AoS, since it seems like a decent game on it's own and could as well have been made set in the old world without changing a lot.

Greyshadow
14-06-2016, 13:44
Maybe Silver Tower is tarnished due to the Age of Sigmar backlash but it didn't really worry me. A Silver Tower of Tzeentch just screens Warhammer to me either way. I kind of like that it is Age of Sigmar though, I am not an expert like I am with the Old World so I am kind of like a newbie again. Makes everything feel fresh. Maybe it is just me.

75hastings69
14-06-2016, 14:40
Despite not liking AoS for various reasons I did buy WHQ:ST, sadly it seems I was the only one in my group that did, and also the only one that wanted to give it a go :( As a boost to "AoS" sales I also picked up the hero box - as someone was selling one of for petty much 50% off RRP, I actually was surprised that I quite like the flying sigmarine and bird character..... not enough to consider buying more or playing AoS but I am looking forward to my first ever attempts at NMM on it (I know I probably picked a crazy hard model to try first!).

There seems to be considerably more buzz about the Massive Darkness Kickstarter than WHQ:ST in my area. GW as a whole has lost any kind of traction for gaming nights with mainly X-Wing, Guidball, Malifaux & Infinity being played.

smaxx
14-06-2016, 15:08
True. He is a powerful symbol of everything people hate about AoS and GW's recent actions.

It's unfortunate that WQ:ST is tarnished by it's connection to AoS, since it seems like a decent game on it's own and could as well have been made set in the old world without changing a lot.
That's right. Not only is Sigmarine repulsive, but it lacks the pull from the Old World. A Descent style, story driven campaign dungeon crawler in Old World would be nice. FFG might've done good job by just recycling the Descent II game mechanics in different setting. Now the Silver Tower setting interests not at all, and thus no need for the game. Board game is very much dependent on the setting. There are nice minis tuere though.

Vazalaar
14-06-2016, 15:46
Hmm, I don't see the problem with the Stormcast as he fills the paladin role, albeit a bit bulky.;). Imo as a party member he fits the theme perfectly. I only played Descent (without expansions) and Silver Tower. Silver Tower is imo a better game with fantastic miniatures. While I found the price for Silver Tower fine, maybe it should have been lower than 100 euro.. .

The impression I got from my local store owner when I bought my copy was that he seemed content with the Silver Tower sales, as other AoS sales were terrible.

smaxx
14-06-2016, 16:41
Hmm, I don't see the problem with the Stormcast as he fills the paladin role, albeit a bit bulky.;). Imo as a party member he fits the theme perfectly. I only played Descent (without expansions) and Silver Tower. Silver Tower is imo a better game with fantastic miniatures. While I found the price for Silver Tower fine, maybe it should have been lower than 100 euro..
Truly difficult to believe :) But as I haven't played ST, cannot really know. Descent (both first ed and second) is a fine game, and Imperial Assault shows well how to use the same engine for different story. GW on the other hand is not focused in making games, and did release AoS, so sounds unlikely. But good to hear that the game has it's merits. The minis are way better than ffg's.

Arkon
14-06-2016, 20:24
As a foreword, my „gaming community“ consists of 4 friends, who recurrently play (GW) tabletops (whfb, 40k and BFG) for some months, with larger breaks between – and who all hate AoS passionately. Most of us still buy GW things here and then, but far less than before AoS (we were mostly in whfb before this abomination)

Silver Tower is the first new GW-System that interested us for quite some time. This is mainly because of the concept of the game, but it helped greatly that there is actually no problem to view the setting as a whfb one (For example I converted the sigmarine to a big, probably Norsca-like Paladin, which I quite like. The trick is mainly to change the helm). We recently played it and it was great fun. Even my wife, who is not in tabletop, tried and liked it. It was annoying to get the rules and cards outside the app, I had to convert or replace quite some of the miniatures (I REALLY hate the original goblins) and the story could be less epic-LSD-trip and more conservative fantasy but all in all it was well worth buying it. I really hope for further expansions an especially fan made stuff (preferably for the old world). This would be far better spent effort than to release something for AoS itself in my eyes.

If GW don’t get this (which wouldn’t surprise me a bit, since they don’t even want to confess that they release games…) I will probably give decent a try instead. I would prefer more warhammer quest though, since I like GWs miniatures an foremost their conversion-friendly hard plastic far more than the Descent-stuff and I’m only interstet in the app scenarios, since no one of us would like to play as dungeon master.

By the way, are there really no rumors about further expansions that are worth putting them in the N&R-section?

Ultimate Life Form
14-06-2016, 23:56
That's right. Not only is Sigmarine repulsive, but it lacks the pull from the Old World. A Descent style, story driven campaign dungeon crawler in Old World would be nice. FFG might've done good job by just recycling the Descent II game mechanics in different setting. Now the Silver Tower setting interests not at all, and thus no need for the game. Board game is very much dependent on the setting. There are nice minis tuere though.

Strangely I don't mind the Sigmarine that much. If you consider it closely (and ignore the all-too-obvious space marine parallels) they are like Chaos Warriors of Sigmar. Which is a concept I could get behind. Order has been lacking any real way to counter the Chaos threat for far too long. It's mostly what the Sigmarine stands for, namely the ruination of a perfectly good game and 40kaytion of the franchise, which earns them so much ire. I guess some folks will never be able to accept them, and that's okay.

Btw I bought (half) of the Silver Tower but mostly for the models and maybe a quick game every now and then. No way I would purchase it at full price, and the chances of it converting me to AoS are pretty much nil. Still interesting to note that it is the first "AoS" product I bought ever. Therefore I'm slightly surprised it doesn't seem to do well, if I buy it then I'd figure there must be a pretty broad base for this kind of thing. Maybe it's the price, as always.


This is mainly because of the concept of the game, but it helped greatly that there is actually no problem to view the setting as a whfb one

And this.

shinros
15-06-2016, 02:09
Strangely I don't mind the Sigmarine that much. If you consider it closely (and ignore the all-too-obvious space marine parallels) they are like Chaos Warriors of Sigmar. Which is a concept I could get behind. Order has been lacking any real way to counter the Chaos threat for far too long. It's mostly what the Sigmarine stands for, namely the ruination of a perfectly good game and 40kaytion of the franchise, which earns them so much ire. I guess some folks will never be able to accept them, and that's okay.

Btw I bought (half) of the Silver Tower but mostly for the models and maybe a quick game every now and then. No way I would purchase it at full price, and the chances of it converting me to AoS are pretty much nil. Still interesting to note that it is the first "AoS" product I bought ever. Therefore I'm slightly surprised it doesn't seem to do well, if I buy it then I'd figure there must be a pretty broad base for this kind of thing. Maybe it's the price, as always.



And this.

It is clear why GW or kirby made them but you are correct lore wise they are the order version of chaos warriors that's why sigmar made them I am serious he looked at the events of the empire and looked at the chaos warriors and decided yup that's the thing I am missing. Table top wise they work VERY very well with the sigmarite humans a whole army of them does not work that great they strike hard and fast just like the books but they are lacking in area's that the normal guys/sigmarite priests can cover. They still fear like a chaos warrior they require food rest etc. Less than a normal man of course but they are made to fight chaos warriors on equal level lore wise they are about the same size.

Hell look at their war scroll.

Stormcast Liberator
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/warhammer-aos-liberators-en.pdf

Chaos warrior
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-chaos-warriors-en.pdf

Of course some people cannot get over that I just want to let some people know.

Greyshadow
15-06-2016, 04:22
I agree, it is hard for people to look at them objectively. I also agree that the Eternals work better as individuals in a party than an army. I can't see myself ever painting a collection of them but I do see the value of having an army that is easier to paint and play with for beginners. They can look awesome though - see Darren Lathams non-metallic metal version on a lava display base. That is one of the most incredible models I have ever seen. Will be interesting to see how Age of Sigmar evolves when the General's Handbook is released.

Geep
15-06-2016, 08:58
lore wise they are the order version of chaos warriors that's why sigmar made them I am serious he looked at the events of the empire and looked at the chaos warriors and decided yup that's the thing I am missing.
It's pretty clear what Sigmarines are supposed to be lorewise, but that really just exacerbates one of the main problems I have with them;
Chaos is willing to grant its power freely, but the power always has a cost, whether the receiver knows that or not. Chaos Warriors are some of the lowest of those to be blessed with the power of Chaos, and part of the price is that they lose not only the need to eat or sleep, but the ability to do so (in any regular fashion, at least- they may be able to eat raw flesh and drink blood, but they won't sit down and have a nice meal with the marauders who were once family). They grow and fuse to their armour, losing almost all sense of touch. The entire process is at least as much of a curse as it is a blessing, and that disconnection from humanity drives them further towards Chaos.
Sigmar doing the same to humans makes no sense- at least there is a curse aspect to his gift, as is appropriate, but that curse is really not in his favour. He's basically setting the Sigmarines up to fall, and creating a problem for himself in the future. If this weren't the case then surely many gods would have directly blessed their servants in the past?

As for how ST has affected my local gaming community, it hasn't even been a blip. GW games as a whole though are quickly fading away- only 40k has a few strong adherents. KoW and other competition is very strong though.

shinros
15-06-2016, 09:15
It's pretty clear what Sigmarines are supposed to be lorewise, but that really just exacerbates one of the main problems I have with them;
Chaos is willing to grant its power freely, but the power always has a cost, whether the receiver knows that or not. Chaos Warriors are some of the lowest of those to be blessed with the power of Chaos, and part of the price is that they lose not only the need to eat or sleep, but the ability to do so (in any regular fashion, at least- they may be able to eat raw flesh and drink blood, but they won't sit down and have a nice meal with the marauders who were once family). They grow and fuse to their armour, losing almost all sense of touch. The entire process is at least as much of a curse as it is a blessing, and that disconnection from humanity drives them further towards Chaos.
Sigmar doing the same to humans makes no sense- at least there is a curse aspect to his gift, as is appropriate, but that curse is really not in his favour. He's basically setting the Sigmarines up to fall, and creating a problem for himself in the future. If this weren't the case then surely many gods would have directly blessed their servants in the past?

As for how ST has affected my local gaming community, it hasn't even been a blip. GW games as a whole though are quickly fading away- only 40k has a few strong adherents. KoW and other competition is very strong though.

Well the difference is the stormcast know the cost of dying too many times but they press on anyway that's why sigmar chose them to bear some of his essence he chose them for their character and strength of spirit over their sword arm. Hell one used to be baker, another a priest in a hospice. Chaos warriors fight for their personal gain most of them ignorant of the cost of the path of chaos. While the stormcast are willingly sacrificing themselves and placing their souls in peril due to nagash disliking the immortality. Of course it's a problem something that sigmar has no way to fix at the moment until a moment in a book now if he could replicate it again that's another story. Yes they fear the effects of the reforging but they keep fighting for the hope of a better tomorrow a the realms free of chaos that's why they have been chosen by sigmar.

Even broken due to the reforging effects they are still dedicated to the mission even as a robot that's the price of their immortality. That's why when they come across a tribe in the realm of ghur that worships sigmar that impresses them greatly due the hardship they face of living in lands ruled by chaos, ravaging greenskins and the local wild life trying to kill them and the fact they have never seen their god. While they and the people of ayzr have seen sigmar in person. A priestess of the tribe faith was so great it was able to give sigmar the power to restore one of the lord celestants.

Chaos looks for those who are physically strong and who can murder and give them more souls and sigmar care's more about the strength of someone's willpower/soul and not to give in when looking in the face of evil than how strong they are.

Some people say AOS is more of a setting of hope over a minute to midnight. Of course the summer campaign may change that depending on the results.

Yodhrin
15-06-2016, 14:30
It is clear why GW or kirby made them but you are correct lore wise they are the order version of chaos warriors that's why sigmar made them I am serious he looked at the events of the empire and looked at the chaos warriors and decided yup that's the thing I am missing. Table top wise they work VERY very well with the sigmarite humans a whole army of them does not work that great they strike hard and fast just like the books but they are lacking in area's that the normal guys/sigmarite priests can cover. They still fear like a chaos warrior they require food rest etc. Less than a normal man of course but they are made to fight chaos warriors on equal level lore wise they are about the same size.

Hell look at their war scroll.

Stormcast Liberator
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/warhammer-aos-liberators-en.pdf

Chaos warrior
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-chaos-warriors-en.pdf

Of course some people cannot get over that I just want to let some people know.

And some of us are perfectly aware of that rationale and still think they're rubbish.

Part of the appeal of "Order" forces in WHF was that they were fundamentally doomed, that(one day, in the distant future that we would never actually experience) Chaos would eventually win out because they were stronger, nastier, and at the end of the day unbeatable because they were just personifications of the worst parts of everyone else. It was the struggle despite that, despite the odds, despite the horror that made the Empire etc heroic, that willingness of ordinary men to take up a halberd and stand toe-to-toe with a Chaos Warrior that could crush their skulls with one hand even knowing they would probably die. Sigmarines are not heroic, because the stakes they face are pitiful - they're functionally immortal conscript soldiers with superpowers and the explicit, active backing of a capital-G God, where's the peril? Where's the struggle?

Chaos Warriors get a pass because they're not supposed to be heroic, or even anti-heroic, they're villains, and making them extremely powerful relative to normal mortals with the chance for some to keep resurrecting to come back and terrorise again enhances them in that role.

Zywus
15-06-2016, 14:48
Sigmarines are not heroic, because the stakes they face are pitiful - they're functionally immortal conscript soldiers with superpowers and the explicit, active backing of a capital-G God, where's the peril? Where's the struggle?
But, but... they lose a piece of their precious personality whenever they're reforged:cries:

AmaroK
15-06-2016, 14:49
And some of us are perfectly aware of that rationale and still think they're rubbish.

Part of the appeal of "Order" forces in WHF was that they were fundamentally doomed, that(one day, in the distant future that we would never actually experience) Chaos would eventually win out because they were stronger, nastier, and at the end of the day unbeatable because they were just personifications of the worst parts of everyone else. It was the struggle despite that, despite the odds, despite the horror that made the Empire etc heroic, that willingness of ordinary men to take up a halberd and stand toe-to-toe with a Chaos Warrior that could crush their skulls with one hand even knowing they would probably die. Sigmarines are not heroic, because the stakes they face are pitiful - they're functionally immortal conscript soldiers with superpowers and the explicit, active backing of a capital-G God, where's the peril? Where's the struggle?

Chaos Warriors get a pass because they're not supposed to be heroic, or even anti-heroic, they're villains, and making them extremely powerful relative to normal mortals with the chance for some to keep resurrecting to come back and terrorise again enhances them in that role.

Itīs pretty clear after reading your post that you havenīt read any of AoS fluff directly from the books. Otherwise, you would know that Stormcasts can eventually die if their souls are not able to return to Azyr for whatever reason, and it happens in the Realmgate war books. Also, after the reforging, they lose part of themselves and their memories. And they can also be trapped, tortured or driven insane by their enemies. Sure, dying is way more "dangerous", but their fluff and their weaknesses are still not so explored to say they are immortals with no drawbacks.

Silencio
15-06-2016, 15:36
Itīs pretty clear after reading your post that you havenīt read any of AoS fluff directly from the books. Otherwise, you would know that Stormcasts can eventually die if their souls are not able to return to Azyr for whatever reason, and it happens in the Realmgate war books. Also, after the reforging, they lose part of themselves and their memories. And they can also be trapped, tortured or driven insane by their enemies. Sure, dying is way more "dangerous", but their fluff and their weaknesses are still not so explored to say they are immortals with no drawbacks.

I commend anyone who tries to defend the Stormcast Eternals. But despite your passion, yours is a doomed task, because the reasons for our hatred are legion.

We hate them because they're space marines in fantasy. We hate them because they're the mightiest warriors ever. We hate them because they all look the same. We hate them because they're led by Super-Jesus. We hate them because they live in a world that makes zero sense. We hate them because they're shallow as a puddle. We hate them because Stormthis Stormthat Stormstorm everywhere. We hate them because their defining trait of endless reincarnation that gradually chips away at them came about because someone was watching Game of Thrones and saw that episode when Beric Dondarrion is reincarnated and says "Each time I come back, I'm a little less", and they thought "That concept belongs to us now."

Everything about the Stormcast Stormhosts, hanging with Sigmar while clad in Sigmarite on Sigmaron, reeks of laziness. That is why we hate them.

Ultimate Life Form
15-06-2016, 16:29
Everything about the Stormcast Stormhosts, hanging with Sigmar while clad in Sigmarite on Sigmaron, reeks of laziness. That is why we hate them.

Well, you certainly have a point, and personally I would prefer them not to be blatant Space Marine rip-offs.

However a lot of the complaints you make can be raised against well established parts of the lore as well. For example Bretonnia always made precious little sense; it was just the laziest King Arthur rip-off imaginable, not to mention the sillyness of voluntarily arresting technological evolution and remaining in the middle ages while everything around them was beginning to stock up on laser cannons. No wonder they were wiped out in a heartbeat during the End Times. Or what about the Moot; just a piece of Middle Earth transplanted straight into the Empire, Hobbits and all, which never seemed to have any significance or amount to anything, the main thing being having a Tolkien rip-off in the setting.

These are only two examples, and them being well-established does not make them less stupid. GW was never overly original to begin with. They just had a team of talented writers who were able to blend the mix into an enjyoable drink; sadly the talent has long since abandoned ship. Let's also not forget that a prime ingredient of the early days was a hefty dose of humor, which seems all but gone now.

Cybtroll
15-06-2016, 17:06
The Moot was a fundamental part of the Lore and of Bloodbowl. Their chefs was one of the reason to collect fantasy football miniatures ^^

csb
15-06-2016, 17:09
The technological differences between the races were always one big problem in the old world setting. In fact, humans and dwarfs (or is that dwarves?, sorry) having access to various machines, steamtanks, cannons, gyrocopters, proto-gatling guns and all... They would overrun the rest of the old world in no time (so much also for the "doomed humanity" in old world, ist just not the case once a cannon is not a "rare unit" anymore, but mass-production and deployment sets in). And the only "answer" to why this does not happen is that "the Magic" of others is too strong. That probably also made the old world setting less attractive than the 40k-setting, where at least there is some kind of technological balance and the territory is far wider.

AmaroK
15-06-2016, 18:07
I commend anyone who tries to defend the Stormcast Eternals. But despite your passion, yours is a doomed task, because the reasons for our hatred are legion.

We hate them because they're space marines in fantasy. We hate them because they're the mightiest warriors ever. We hate them because they all look the same. We hate them because they're led by Super-Jesus. We hate them because they live in a world that makes zero sense. We hate them because they're shallow as a puddle. We hate them because Stormthis Stormthat Stormstorm everywhere. We hate them because their defining trait of endless reincarnation that gradually chips away at them came about because someone was watching Game of Thrones and saw that episode when Beric Dondarrion is reincarnated and says "Each time I come back, I'm a little less", and they thought "That concept belongs to us now."

Everything about the Stormcast Stormhosts, hanging with Sigmar while clad in Sigmarite on Sigmaron, reeks of laziness. That is why we hate them.

First of all, Iīm not defending the Stormcast because of a passionate thing, but just saying its clear many people didnīt even read the fluff from the books directly. If you fancy to hate them, go for it. But I get the feeling that AoS in general and Stormcast in particular are just judged not by themselves, but related to the end of WHFB. Itīs like saying your new girlfriend is worse than the previous one just because she isnt her. I can understand it, but in the end, it is still not fair.

AmaroK
15-06-2016, 18:17
Well, you certainly have a point, and personally I would prefer them not to be blatant Space Marine rip-offs.

However a lot of the complaints you make can be raised against well established parts of the lore as well. For example Bretonnia always made precious little sense; it was just the laziest King Arthur rip-off imaginable, not to mention the sillyness of voluntarily arresting technological evolution and remaining in the middle ages while everything around them was beginning to stock up on laser cannons. No wonder they were wiped out in a heartbeat during the End Times. Or what about the Moot; just a piece of Middle Earth transplanted straight into the Empire, Hobbits and all, which never seemed to have any significance or amount to anything, the main thing being having a Tolkien rip-off in the setting.

These are only two examples, and them being well-established does not make them less stupid. GW was never overly original to begin with. They just had a team of talented writers who were able to blend the mix into an enjyoable drink; sadly the talent has long since abandoned ship. Let's also not forget that a prime ingredient of the early days was a hefty dose of humor, which seems all but gone now.

Stormcast are even more related to the Necrons (in the Necrontyr times) than to the Space Marines themselves. Itīs pretty clear they are Fantasy Space Marines, or Good Chaos Warriors, but from the very early rumours, Harry stated they would be like that. Considering Space Marines are mostly knightly orders in space, its not that hard to make the jump back, and Stormcast would have had no problem to fit in the WHFB setting, either as a concept or visually. They decided to make a new game and blow up the Old World, thatīs what some people canīt take, not the Stormcasts (though it seems they have to hate them as a symbol of it).

Silencio
15-06-2016, 18:30
First of all, Iīm not defending the Stormcast because of a passionate thing, but just saying its clear many people didnīt even read the fluff from the books directly.

"Lord-Celestant Zephacleas led the Astral Templars of the Beast-Bane Chamber against the howling hordes which guarded an ancient duardin road through the Raxulian lava-tubes. But to Orius and his chamber had fallen the task of clearing the Mandrake Bastion of Klaxus..."

"‘This night,’ Vandus cried, glorying in the full release of the divine magic, ‘we ride the storm!’"

With writing like that, is it any wonder people don't read the books?

(quotes courtesy of Mudkip's sig)


If you fancy to hate them, go for it. But I get the feeling that AoS in general and Stormcast in particular are just judged not by themselves, but related to the end of WHFB.

Nope. I already gave you some of the reasons we hate AoS. Sure, I'm displeased that WFB died, but I'm more displeased that its replacement is an atrocity against creativity and intelligence.


Itīs like saying your new girlfriend is worse than the previous one just because she isnt her.

Nah. It's like saying your new girlfriend is worse than your old one because she is an orruk who murdered your ex, and then wore her scalp as a wig, and appropriated her perfume and make up, and stuck in huge butt and breast implants, to try to be better than her...

AmaroK
15-06-2016, 18:51
"Lord-Celestant Zephacleas led the Astral Templars of the Beast-Bane Chamber against the howling hordes which guarded an ancient duardin road through the Raxulian lava-tubes. But to Orius and his chamber had fallen the task of clearing the Mandrake Bastion of Klaxus..."

"‘This night,’ Vandus cried, glorying in the full release of the divine magic, ‘we ride the storm!’"

With writing like that, is it any wonder people don't read the books?

(quotes courtesy of Mudkip's sig)



Nope. I already gave you some of the reasons we hate AoS. Sure, I'm displeased that WFB died, but I'm more displeased that its replacement is an atrocity against creativity and intelligence.



Nah. It's like saying your new girlfriend is worse than your old one because she is an orruk who murdered your ex, and then wore her scalp as a wig, and appropriated her perfume and make up, and stuck in huge butt and breast implants, to try to be better than her...

About the writing, you are just cherrypicking in order to dismiss a whole product. I have read through the campaign books, and while they must be nothing to call home, they are pretty ok and interesting enough, considering they are focused to stablish some scenarios and gaming content through the story. Its like saying all Ultramarines stuff is crap because Matt Ward wrote once in their codex any marine would like to be an Ultramarine... But as you say, its about giving HATE reasons, what else can be said :)

smaxx
16-06-2016, 05:22
Nah. It's like saying your new girlfriend is worse than your old one because she is an orruk who murdered your ex, and then wore her scalp as a wig, and appropriated her perfume and make up, and stuck in huge butt and breast implants, to try to be better than her...
Yeah :D That's why it was impossible to continue with this proposed new girl, the feelings were just a bit on the negative side...

Yowzo
16-06-2016, 08:44
About the writing, you are just cherrypicking in order to dismiss a whole product. I have read through the campaign books, and while they must be nothing to call home, they are pretty ok and interesting enough, considering they are focused to stablish some scenarios and gaming content through the story. Its like saying all Ultramarines stuff is crap because Matt Ward wrote once in their codex any marine would like to be an Ultramarine... But as you say, its about giving HATE reasons, what else can be said :)

I can live with a campaign book having that sort of writing, but a novel you're paying good money for?

No thanks.

I'm not suggesting the Malus or G&F novels are magna opera or anything like that, but this takes pre-processed, template mass-produced crap to a whole new level.

herjan1987
16-06-2016, 08:59
I dared and I read the Vengeance-Eternal short since its for free. Damn I feel so bad. So the Stormcasts these demigod warrior, who hold there 5 inch thick shields like it was bloody nothing are tricked into a trap created, by the Skaven and cant handle the situation without losses? There awesome sigmarate armor can be pierced by Warplock Jezzails? Why should care about these guys? Also orcs are starting to negotiate with someone who defends their prey, give me a break....
Other than that pacing of the book is bad. I really found hard to follow, because of silly tittles and names. Maybe I read too much Gaunts Ghosts.

jtrowell
16-06-2016, 09:09
i didn't read this story and I am no fan of AoS, but to be fair warplock jezzails are heavy long rifles with a lot of armor penetration, and they use (or at least used in the World that was) unstable warpstone amnunitions.

It's probaly not unlike a heavy sniper rifle with depleted uranium rounds being able to wound someone despite hitting right on his kevlar vest due to the power of the weapon, so this part at least might make sense.

StygianBeach
16-06-2016, 10:13
I commend anyone who tries to defend the Stormcast Eternals. But despite your passion, yours is a doomed task, because the reasons for our hatred are legion.

We hate them because they're space marines in fantasy. We hate them because they're the mightiest warriors ever. We hate them because they all look the same. We hate them because they're led by Super-Jesus. We hate them because they live in a world that makes zero sense. We hate them because they're shallow as a puddle. We hate them because Stormthis Stormthat Stormstorm everywhere. We hate them because their defining trait of endless reincarnation that gradually chips away at them came about because someone was watching Game of Thrones and saw that episode when Beric Dondarrion is reincarnated and says "Each time I come back, I'm a little less", and they thought "That concept belongs to us now."

Everything about the Stormcast Stormhosts, hanging with Sigmar while clad in Sigmarite on Sigmaron, reeks of laziness. That is why we hate them.

I loved Beric in the books, but I think the show did not do his reincarnations justice. The problem with the Sigmarines losing their Humanity story is that they look like golden idealised Warrior statues. They look like their Humanity is already gone.
If you look at the 1980's Robocop the first movie is about him being a robot who (without being able to violate his programming) gains some humanity. I think this would make a much better fit for the Sigmarines.

Some months ago I watched a YouTube Video by Rob Ager about the Judge Dredd movie called Technocracy and social oppression.
While watching this, I thought how the Sigmarines visually fit perfectly into the role of the 2000AD Judge in a fantasy setting. That is when I grew to love the Sigmarine, because when I look at them I do not see their own fluff anymore. I only see a Robocop, an idealised gold armoured warrior who is ready to stomp the letter of the law into the face of humanity... forever!

The problem as I see it as that Sigmar is ridiculously infallible. He is like Superman/Batman/Braniac all in one tidy Epic Jesus package.

I wish they were more like Space Marines, with a corrupt church of Sigmar leading them... ah well, at least I can still enjoy my own fluff.

Captain Marius
16-06-2016, 18:10
My view of Stormcasts is that Sigmar needs to pick mortals of the greatest heroism, faith or willpower and their reward for being the best the mortal realms have to offer is an eternity of service in war in which their very sense of self is at risk of being eroded until they are simply automata. This hits the traditional warhammer grimdark buttons for me for sure!

As to the stakes, i think they are higher than ever. Sigmar and certain others, including all wfb players, have seen what happens when chaos wins - aos is the story of the survivors of the world that was desperately trying to stop chaos repeating their success! The elements of hope in the narrative are directly influenced by the survivors of the old world learning from their mistakes and giving themselves a chance. This time the triumph of chaos is no longer inevitable, it is a proper fight rather than a last stand, and i like it!

Captain Marius
16-06-2016, 18:12
Ahem oh yeah re: silver tower, after the initial flurry of playing weve all gone off and painted everything up ready to do another playthrough with new heroes this weekend!

shinros
17-06-2016, 00:38
I dared and I read the Vengeance-Eternal short since its for free. Damn I feel so bad. So the Stormcasts these demigod warrior, who hold there 5 inch thick shields like it was bloody nothing are tricked into a trap created, by the Skaven and cant handle the situation without losses? There awesome sigmarate armor can be pierced by Warplock Jezzails? Why should care about these guys? Also orcs are starting to negotiate with someone who defends their prey, give me a break....
Other than that pacing of the book is bad. I really found hard to follow, because of silly tittles and names. Maybe I read too much Gaunts Ghosts.

I have read the novel of the short story here is my take.

You are aware they were caught in that trap due to one of the lord celestant's suffering from the effects of the reforging they talk about it at the start of the novel for those who have not read the previous books. That was the whole point of the battle and how bad the after effects can be sometimes. Yes their armor was pierced by skaven ranged weaponry if you know ANYTHING about skaven lore(considering how much you love the old world) their ranged guns are no joke. In 40k and some area's of fantasy orcs have been negotiated with ALL the time this is not new and majority of the time orcs try and chop your head off before entertaining such a discussion.

So what I am gathering is that you hate them for being pretty much human? Which is what they are? If you follow all their lore they are pretty much order chaos warriors not juggernaut space marines who can spit acid. Who takes on whole armies of nids, can shut half their brains down, battle almost constantly without rest or food, Or doing the feats of Calgar. Their armor is the equivalent of chaos armor. Even human general's and priests can get sigmarite weapons. Hell stormcast even feel FEAR.

Yes they are empowered by sigmar but they die just like any chaos warrior. Over the books they have been killed by skaven, marauders, chaos warriors, Skeletons, Vampires, Orcs, they have been decapitated, falling from cliffs, dying in molten lava. Hell chaos warriors have been called demi god's among men and they still die by getting shot by a human line.

Soulsmith
17-06-2016, 00:42
In 40k and some area's of fantasy orcs have been negotiated with ALL the time.



Indeed, I feel that greenskins seem vicious and war-obsessed, but only because that's viewed from a human perspective. Greenskins of all shapes and sizes have a completely different of outlook, which whilst brutish and crude, includes cunning, diplomacy (to some degree), and economics. Just not in a way immediately recognizable to anything that isn't a greenskin.

shinros
17-06-2016, 00:48
Indeed, I feel that greenskins seem vicious and war-obsessed, but only because that's viewed from a human perspective. Greenskins of all shapes and sizes have a completely different of outlook, which whilst brutish and crude, includes cunning, diplomacy (to some degree), and economics. Just not in a way immediately recognizable to anything that isn't a greenskin.

Yup and most of the time to even get them to do anything they want you to fight them first.

herjan1987
17-06-2016, 03:39
I have read the novel of the short story here is my take.

You are aware they were caught in that trap due to one of the lord celestant's suffering from the effects of the reforging they talk about it at the start of the novel for those who have not read the previous books. That was the whole point of the battle and how bad the after effects can be sometimes. Yes their armor was pierced by skaven ranged weaponry if you know ANYTHING about skaven lore(considering how much you love the old world) their ranged guns are no joke. In 40k and some area's of fantasy orcs have been negotiated with ALL the time this is not new and majority of the time orcs try and chop your head off before entertaining such a discussion.

So what I am gathering is that you hate them for being pretty much human? Which is what they are? If you follow all their lore they are pretty much order chaos warriors not juggernaut space marines who can spit acid. Who takes on whole armies of nids, can shut half their brains down, battle almost constantly without rest or food, Or doing the feats of Calgar. Their armor is the equivalent of chaos armor. Even human general's and priests can get sigmarite weapons. Hell stormcast even feel FEAR.

Yes they are empowered by sigmar but they die just like any chaos warrior. Over the books they have been killed by skaven, marauders, chaos warriors, Skeletons, Vampires, Orcs, they have been decapitated, falling from cliffs, dying in molten lava. Hell chaos warriors have been called demi god's among men and they still die by getting shot by a human line.

First to note the skaven is one of my least favourite factions in WHFB. There for lack the knowlegde of them.

Your whole argument doesnt matter. The simple fact that the others were stupid enought to follow the skaven to their turf is mind blowing.

"Thostos was killing his way towards the warlord, bleeding now from a dozen wounds. More Stormcasts hauled themselves up onto the mound, but still the skaven guns blazed, now joined by an enfilade from the right flank. The skaven had brought forth a heavy wooden shield, from behind which several long-barrelled rifles laid down a vicious crossfire. Another Liberator went down, crimson spurting from his ruined gorget, spasming as he fell. Eldroc felt a dull thud on his thigh, and growled as it was followed by searing, white-hot agony. Not the sharp, honest pain of a flesh wound, but something more sinister, a rapidly spreading toxic ache that burned across his leg. He lowered his warding lantern and let the blessed light bathe his smoking limb."

Those are Warplock Jezzails, their are not written as Warplock Jezzails, since GW wants get rid off them. Everybody gloryfies sigmarite armor how good it is. It happens it cant hold up Old World AP rounds. Dont hire Sigmar to be your body armour maker, he is a god and cant solve problems, that was giving a headache in the Old World.

And yeah they so human that they get themselves electrocuted and get blasted apart via ligthning, after that they mix their souls several dose of godhood and then finally get them blessed by the big man himself.

Sorry at the best these dudes are puppets of the gods. Not to mention the fact these dudes are getting ressurrected so again these folks become even more zombified. Sorry the story of the things dont makes any sence what so ever.

Replicant253
17-06-2016, 03:47
Yup and most of the time to even get them to do anything they want you to fight them first.

The orgin of GW Orcs is a mixture of British football hooligans from the 1980s (depressingly making an appearance on our TVs again) as well as the more traditional Tolkien fantasy Orcs. Violence to Orks in Warhammer has a deeper cultural and social impact, more akin to a primary language. It is how they communicate. It can also be very funny.

Sothron
17-06-2016, 04:06
The very little fantasy gaming in my area is Kings of War or some old version of Warhammer.

shinros
17-06-2016, 14:47
First to note the skaven is one of my least favourite factions in WHFB. There for lack the knowlegde of them.

Your whole argument doesnt matter. The simple fact that the others were stupid enought to follow the skaven to their turf is mind blowing.

"Thostos was killing his way towards the warlord, bleeding now from a dozen wounds. More Stormcasts hauled themselves up onto the mound, but still the skaven guns blazed, now joined by an enfilade from the right flank. The skaven had brought forth a heavy wooden shield, from behind which several long-barrelled rifles laid down a vicious crossfire. Another Liberator went down, crimson spurting from his ruined gorget, spasming as he fell. Eldroc felt a dull thud on his thigh, and growled as it was followed by searing, white-hot agony. Not the sharp, honest pain of a flesh wound, but something more sinister, a rapidly spreading toxic ache that burned across his leg. He lowered his warding lantern and let the blessed light bathe his smoking limb."

Those are Warplock Jezzails, their are not written as Warplock Jezzails, since GW wants get rid off them. Everybody gloryfies sigmarite armor how good it is. It happens it cant hold up Old World AP rounds. Dont hire Sigmar to be your body armour maker, he is a god and cant solve problems, that was giving a headache in the Old World.

And yeah they so human that they get themselves electrocuted and get blasted apart via ligthning, after that they mix their souls several dose of godhood and then finally get them blessed by the big man himself.

Sorry at the best these dudes are puppets of the gods. Not to mention the fact these dudes are getting ressurrected so again these folks become even more zombified. Sorry the story of the things dont makes any sence what so ever.

Warplock Jezzails are long-barrelled rifles that fire a high velocity bullet made of refined warpstone. Due to their length, Jezzails can fire an incredible distance and still strike with enough force to punch clean through even the toughest armour. If the target does not die from their injuries, they will quickly succumb to the toxic effects of the warpstone that hit them. Of course, such power does come with a price and Jezzail teams have often found themselves on the receiving end of return fire. As a result they will often be found hunkered down behind a large pavise, which is a convenient resting place for the heavy gun as well as adequate protection for the crew.

Even chaos armor cannot stand up to it lore wise even in the old world. They are still the same what are you trying to say here? Stormcast are not space marines but equivalent to chaos warriors lore wise. Chaos armor and stormcast armor is much more better than normal armor but it cannot stand up to warp infused bullets. That's how skaven kill people most of the time.
https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Skaven-Warplock-Jezzails

They are still in the setting almost everything is to me it seems like you are complaining for the sake of it. The point of the story is reforging effects are causing BAD things to happen and so they fell into a trap because of it that's the PURPOSE of the story. Thostos is the character who is suffering the reforging effects hence it effects his command and those who he is working with. So how does it not make sense? How is it hard to follow? :wtf:

They had to get through the skaven area to get to their objective but what he did caused him and his allies to fall into a trap. Something that the other lord celestant get's pissed off about after the battle is done.

My comment stands you say you love the old world yet you are displaying that you don't know much about it in my eyes sorry if it sounds harsh. All the general lore is the same the old world is a HH era not something that was declared non canon. The reason why they are turned into zombies has been explained in detail I might add and it has nothing to do with sigmar but a certain necromancer who like's to talk in caps. Warhammer has always been about god's/people using people to do their wars. That's the prevailing theme in both settings 40k and fantasy.

So what you want is amazing super soldiers that slap everything in the face without any problems? 40K is that way my friend. I don't want that in fantasy in general it's one of the main reasons I got tired of 40k.

Sanjuro*
19-06-2016, 07:07
So another thread descends into a collective angry phillipic about AoS and its faults.

I'm actually surprised this has happened because I feel Silver Towers is much more like the Old World than the new Realms of Whatever. That's why I bought it, because I think it still has that essence. Yes it has a Stormcast and Fireslayer in it but they don't feel out of place in my opinion. (It's interesting how the stormcast has become the focal point for all the bitterness around AoS, I've grown to love the aesthetic) Both models are beautiful and when not surrounded with an army of dracoths etc they feel much closer to the D&D fantasy archetypes which everyone misses so much.

As for the literature I was so put off by the silly names, awful prose, forced plot line and poor characterisation in the first AoS book I haven't picked up another since. However, I did read the silver towers novella (with a little trepidation) and quite enjoyed it. It's still dreck pulp fiction, not even as good as the HH series, but it was a fun read which didn't overstay it's welcome and again felt much more like the warhammer universe we all know and love(ed).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Folomo
19-06-2016, 16:02
I have to agree that the Stormcast looks much better as the "leader" of a small group than as a complete army of them. It make him stand out, something that simply can't happen in a only stormcast army. They appear to suffer from "if everyone is special, no one is". Made me appreciate the idea much better when presented this way.

Dr.Zahnfleisch
19-06-2016, 16:15
I have to agree that the Stormcast looks much better as the "leader" of a small group than as a complete army of them. It make him stand out, something that simply can't happen in a only stormcast army. They appear to suffer from "if everyone is special, no one is". Made me appreciate the idea much better when presented this way.

I'd have loved the idea of Stormcasts being sort of Inquisitors/Emissaries of Sigmar. They could have forged a much more interesting narrative around fewer Individuals that came to aid the mortals in their struggle against chaos, each with their own personality, background and agenda.

shinros
19-06-2016, 20:16
I'd have loved the idea of Stormcasts being sort of Inquisitors/Emissaries of Sigmar. They could have forged a much more interesting narrative around fewer Individuals that came to aid the mortals in their struggle against chaos, each with their own personality, background and agenda.

Apologies for the off topic posts.

Going by the recent books and the grand alliance order it kinda seems to be heading that way. Human and stormcast mixed armies, on the table top I feel stormcast work better with a mixed human army in my opinion right now during the realm gate wars sigmar is just using them to tackle the crazy objectives and hard striking realm gates. Instead of a full force sort of army.

Once the realm gate is secured according to the grand alliance book the mixed army come in and sweep across the realm recolonizing it. Plus pounding chaos in the face. Sigmar already has inquisitors that's witch hunters their job is to stop corruption and to scour cultists in the new settlements that are being put up.

My dream book for AOS would be a witch hunter series now that would be interesting and more stuff on the warrior priests since he was rather interesting in the sliver tower book. On facebook someone asked about seeing more of him and they kinda hint dropped that devoted of sigmar (humans) is in the pipeline.

Anyway GW have said the realm gate wars is ending soon and going by the last book it is. So I suspect when the summer campaign kicks off we should see more books on other races.

jtrowell
21-06-2016, 09:13
I'd have loved the idea of Stormcasts being sort of Inquisitors/Emissaries of Sigmar. They could have forged a much more interesting narrative around fewer Individuals that came to aid the mortals in their struggle against chaos, each with their own personality, background and agenda.

I agree. Even if the Stormcast were fully mindless automatons, simply having them work around normal humans would make them much more bearable.

In some way the Elohis in the Basilean army in Kings of War are not unlike Stormcast, they are angels created and send by their gods, in some way of a similar nature than the daemons (the angels are usually more powerful, but also less in numbers) and most of the time they don't show a lot of expression (but it's possible it's for lack of background fluff showing them), but this doesn't matter because while they are an iconic part of the Basilean army, the core of the army is still the humans that compose it.

When you read the Basilean history, you see it from the point of view of the humans, not the angels.