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The Inevitable One
30-05-2016, 02:14
Hello all!

I've had quite a few Eldar-related questions that I haven't been able to find the answers for, so I thought I'd ask the good people of WarSeer if they could lend a hand to answer a question, two, or even the whole lot. Anything is appreciated.

1. How big is Commorragh? What is the general population density of Commorragh? Are there 'safe zones' where you can walk outside your living quarters and not get shot/stabbed/kidnapped?

2. What is trying to break through Khaine's Gate? Why did the Dark Eldar even create an entrance there?

3. How are Eldar transformed/made into Mandrakes? Do they make a pact with a daemon that grant them powers or do they merge with a daemon? Are the Mandrakes powers psychic, as I thought the Dark Eldar barred any used of such powers in that dimension as they are thought to bring Slaanesh's attention to the Dark City, and thus put themselves in a position of a daemonic invasion?

4. On a 1-dimensional scale on who is the most selfish faction and who is the least selfish, where do the five Eldar factions (Dark Eldar, Eldar Corsairs, Eldar, Harlequins, Exodites) stand?

5. Can Eldar be corrupted by Chaos? I think I remember reading somewhere that Eldar were resistant to Chaos, but Arhra was "the Fallen Phoenix who burns with the dark light of Chaos", so I don't know if I am misreading/misinterpreting or if the two pieces of information are genuine, but ultimately contradictory.

6. If a Craftworld Infinity Circuit is destroyed, does it halt/reduce the likelihood of Ynnead forming? Or is it that once a soul has been placed into the Infinity Circuit, that regardless of what happens to the construct, Ynnead still has that soul to be used to awaken?

Thanks very much and I look forward to hearing all of your answers. :)

Saunders
30-05-2016, 05:13
1) Commorragh is an expansive city within the webway that has grown over the millenia through Asdrubael Vect's efforts to bring other webway realms in as satellites. Think of it as being the size of a planet system, but represented by continuous urban sprawls that cover its entirety. The population is densely-packed and counting all the dregs of society would put it above the whole of the Craftworlds in population by a significant margin, but relatively few have a similar standard of living.

Oh, and Commorragh is as safe as you make it. There are no designated areas to go in order to find respite. There are ways to insulate yourself from danger, but there are no garuntees.

2. Daemons are trying to break through Khaine's Gate. The Dark Eldar tend not to build webway portals, though Commorragh is known for its myriad of connections. Commorragh began as a major port within the webway and thus necessitated many connections, and its expansion has increased the number of twisted passageways connecting to it from other parts of the webway. In fact, there are major webway gates connecting directly to Commorragh from all parts of the galaxy. Now, regarding Khaine's Gate itself, the gate is large and likely very old considering its location in the heart of Vect's domain. Since the Fall, many paths within the webway have fallen in to disuse and states of poor repair. Sometimes, they break. That's a bad thing, because if a webway tunnel tears it opens directly to the Warp. So, compromised webway tunnels are simply sealed off at the gates. Khaine's Gate would have been one such tunnel, sealed off a long time ago. The problem is that through unknown means, the Daemons are breaking down the seal.

3. Nobody knows how the Mandrakes came to be, and they reside in their own segregated realm deep within the bowels of Commorragh. They are not psykers, and their powers are likely channeled through more exotic means. A common rumor is that they are daemons, but I think they're something else entirely created long ago and away from prying eyes. In the years leaning up to the Fall, many of the Eldar hiding within the realms surrounding Commorragh were up to all kinds of crazy experiments. If they are daemonic, they're certainly don't serve any Chaos Gods.

4. Everyone has their own agendas. With the Dark Eldar being the most selfish and the Harlequins being the least, all the others lay somewhere in between on a case-by-case basis.

5. Eldar can be corrupted by Chaos like all other sentient beings, but the survivors of the Fall are keenly aware of the danger that Chaos poses and thusly are more wary of its influences.

6. If an Infinity Circuit is destroyed, its contents are Slaanesh food. Nobody really knows for sure if Ynnead is even real, since it has yet to awaken. One would imagine that once Ynnead does wake, the gestalt of souls comprising its power would then belong to it as opposed to Slaanesh.

The Inevitable One
31-05-2016, 16:33
Thank you for the help so far. I've had a few more questions crop up:

Would it be correct to say that the Eldar and Dark Eldar are polar opposites/two halves, in that the Eldar are the spiritual portion, while the Dark Eldar are the physical portion?

Are the Half-born Dark Eldar genetically manipulated in any way compared to their True-born counterpart?

Are the Dark Eldar predisposed to doing what they do because of internal influences (genetics), external influences (surrounding ennvironment), or mixture of the two?

If a citizen of the Dark City decided to take refuge on a Craftworld, would they be allowed to?

Are there any redeeming qualities to the Dark Eldar?

Lord Damocles
31-05-2016, 18:36
If a citizen of the Dark City decided to take refuge on a Craftworld, would they be allowed to?
One of the Striking Scorpions from Path of series is a former Incubus.

Saunders
31-05-2016, 18:55
I wouldn't say that the Craftworld and Dark Eldar are two sides of a coin. If we're talking about a diametric opposition, it would be truer to say that it is the Exodites are opposite to the Dark Eldar. That said, every Eldar faction has enough in common that I don't think you can say any of them are in direct opposition to each other

If there's a difference between the artifical and natural births amongst the Dark Eldar, we have yet to hear about it. I would imagine that much of the difference lies with the traditions of nobility and bloodlines that existed before Asdrubael Vect seized power and tried to turn Dark Eldar society in to an extreme meritocracy. Then again, you could make the case that for a natural-born eldar to surevive to maturity one can assume that the individual is exceptional.

Well, it is possible that there resides a genetic element. We don't exactly know how they suppress their psychic potential and harness the anguish of others to revitalize themselves. Most evidence suggests that external influences are what dictate the behaviors of the Dark Eldar, though. They are compelled to live their lives in this fashion because it is what sustains them and shields them from Slaanesh's influences. Eldar from other walks of life have been known to fall in with Commorragh and adopt their ways. I would argue that the only internal element driving the Dark Eldar is their phisiology, particularly that Eldar senses are radically heightened in comparison to Humanity, and that they experience emotions of much greater intensity. When you combine that with the boredom in the wake of complete mastery of the mundane elements of life, and hedonism seems like the only thing left to generate excitement. That's why both the Exodites and Craftworld Eldar deliberately busy themselves with other pursuits.

There's a side-story in the Path of the Eldar about a Dark Eldar being adopted by a Craftworld. It's dangerous and they will meet resistance and prejudice at every turn, so it's not a frequent event. In particular, binding yourself to a waystone later in life is a risky process that can kill the individual attempting it. It's not impossible, though.

Redeeming qualities to the Dark Eldar? That's entirely a matter of perspective. They are Eldar, which is in itself a redeeming quality. The Dark Eldar are closest to the height of the Eldar Empire of old. They have wealth and resources beyond measure at their disposal, and can draw from technology that other Eldar have forgotten by divorcing themselves from the Empire. Their HaemonculiI have perfected the art and science of manipulating the physical form, unfettered by the restraints of others. Commorragh is a place where the gifted excel; if an individual has the talent and ambition, they can achieve any goal (say what you will about Vect, he brought down the heavily entrenched aristocracy and empowered the disenfranchised)

Yeah, they're cruel slavers that are compelled to torture others in order to keep existing. They also can't operate any of the technology they haven't been able to adapt from the Eldar Empire to function without psychically interfacing. Every faction of the Eldar has their faults though, we're just predisposed to be revoted by their activities. The worst part is that they enjoy their way of life, which is why the Eldar Empire fell.

knife23
01-06-2016, 02:39
Question: How long do Eldar generally live? As in, what's the life expectancy for Craftworld vs Kabalite?

It's also a hammer
01-06-2016, 09:02
Question: How long do Eldar generally live? As in, what's the life expectancy for Craftworld vs Kabalite?
Well Eldrad Ulthran is at least 10,000 years old and Vect has been in power for around 7-8000 years so...

Saunders
02-06-2016, 15:17
The Eldar lifespan is indeterminable, as far as we know. They take time to reach maturity, but show very little in a way of physically aging beyond that.

Eldrad Ulthran was already a leader on his Craftworld when the Fall happened. The Haemonculus Urien Rakarth was also alive to witness the Fall, though he has altered his body in many fashions over the millenia.

It's established that Eldar can live for thousands of years. The problem is that the 41st millenium is a violent place and we don't have any data preceding the Fall. The Eldar may have outgrown the need for manual labor (barring the Exodites, who voluntarily spend their lives away in relatively primitive conditions and environments) but post-Fall warfare has been devastating to their people. Highborn Dark Eldar may have the means to cheat death (which would explain how many of them live for thousands of years in Commorragh, where their end is more likely to come from treachery than anything else) but the Craftworlds have no such fortune. Most every individual serves with the Aspect Shrines at least once in their lives, and all able-bodied citizens are liable to be conscripted as Guardians. Senior positions on the Craftworld also tend to demand military service, and commanders lead from the front. When you add up the risks facing those living on the Craftworlds over the course of centuries, it becomes quite evident as to why not many experience natural deaths.

Oh, then there's that whole crystallization thing that Eldar seers experience... which leads me in to my second observation. Being that the Eldar are such an emotional species, mental trauma or the assorted ennui that can occur from a poor temperament has been known to lead to individuals simply 'giving up the ghost,' as it were. Especially on the Craftworlds, when you're literally surrounded by the souls of those who have already died.

TLDR; nobody knows how long Eldar generally live because the Fall wiped out most records preceding the last 10,000 years, and Eldar have had a nasty tendency of killing themselves or other Eldar in the time since. Despite that, they can live for thousands of years without slowing down.

knife23
04-06-2016, 03:15
Eldar lost the ability to build Webway, right? If so, is there a way to regain that knowledge?

The Inevitable One
04-06-2016, 03:55
Vect and Urien Rakarth are creating pocket dimensions if Commorragh ever fell to a daemonic incursion, so the question remains of whether this is synonymous with Webway technology.

Saunders
04-06-2016, 14:58
The Eldar still have the ability to build Webway; it's more a matter of infrastructure and resources available to do so. There simply aren't enough eldar left to maintain what has already been built, so there's little reason to go around building more gates.

Both the Eldar and Dark Eldar can establish temporary webway paths, should the need arise.

knife23
06-06-2016, 02:14
Here's another question: Can the troupe master for a harlequin troupe be female?

Malefactum
06-06-2016, 04:39
Yes. Absolutely. Cegorach doesn't differ between genders, the Eldar in general don't very often.

Saunders
07-06-2016, 20:39
Yes. Absolutely. Cegorach doesn't differ between genders, the Eldar in general don't very often.

Nothing to add to that :p

<edit> Just kidding! The only real cases of gender discrimination that have come up within Eldar society are in Dark Eldar Wych cults and Howling Banshee shrines.

Amongst the Wyches, there are plenty of males but rarely advance within their heirarchy. SuccubI are exclusively female, while the males are regarded more as good breeding stock than anything else.

Howling Banshees simply tend to attract more females than males. That said, there is no deliberate prejudice between genders, and some males serve as Banshees just the same.

knife23
08-06-2016, 02:18
Does the Imperium still maintain ambassadors on certain craftworlds?

Saunders
08-06-2016, 06:04
No, and they never have. Inquisitor Czevak was famously a guest on Craftworld Iyanden for a period of time, but his was a rare instance. The Imperium has no official ties with the Craftworlds, and in the case of Craftworld Alaitoc they are actually in a state of war (if you could call it that).

knife23
08-06-2016, 14:17
No, and they never have. Inquisitor Czevak was famously a guest on Craftworld Iyanden for a period of time, but his was a rare instance. The Imperium has no official ties with the Craftworlds, and in the case of Craftworld Alaitoc they are actually in a state of war (if you could call it that).

I recal a passage about an ambassador recounting the intricacies of Eldar language before the passage ended with a note that he was the last ambassador to the craftworld.

Saunders
08-06-2016, 17:19
I wouldn't be surprised if that is older lore, to be honest. The Craftworlds are quite estranged from the Imperium, these days.

Malefactum
09-06-2016, 19:41
That lore is from 3rd Edition iirc. At the end of the Codex. I won't say that is totally off. Just not a regular type of thing. And neither a "recent" (in regards to human life timespan in comparison to the current 40k timestamp).

Robin5t
10-06-2016, 22:08
The Eldar lifespan is indeterminable, as far as we know. They take time to reach maturity, but show very little in a way of physically aging beyond that.

Eldrad Ulthran was already a leader on his Craftworld when the Fall happened. The Haemonculus Urien Rakarth was also alive to witness the Fall, though he has altered his body in many fashions over the millenia.

It's established that Eldar can live for thousands of years. The problem is that the 41st millenium is a violent place and we don't have any data preceding the Fall. The Eldar may have outgrown the need for manual labor (barring the Exodites, who voluntarily spend their lives away in relatively primitive conditions and environments) but post-Fall warfare has been devastating to their people. Highborn Dark Eldar may have the means to cheat death (which would explain how many of them live for thousands of years in Commorragh, where their end is more likely to come from treachery than anything else) but the Craftworlds have no such fortune. Most every individual serves with the Aspect Shrines at least once in their lives, and all able-bodied citizens are liable to be conscripted as Guardians. Senior positions on the Craftworld also tend to demand military service, and commanders lead from the front. When you add up the risks facing those living on the Craftworlds over the course of centuries, it becomes quite evident as to why not many experience natural deaths.

Oh, then there's that whole crystallization thing that Eldar seers experience... which leads me in to my second observation. Being that the Eldar are such an emotional species, mental trauma or the assorted ennui that can occur from a poor temperament has been known to lead to individuals simply 'giving up the ghost,' as it were. Especially on the Craftworlds, when you're literally surrounded by the souls of those who have already died.

TLDR; nobody knows how long Eldar generally live because the Fall wiped out most records preceding the last 10,000 years, and Eldar have had a nasty tendency of killing themselves or other Eldar in the time since. Despite that, they can live for thousands of years without slowing down.
We actually do have a bit of information about this.

Asurmen, Hand of Asuryan, Pg. 61

Life was long enough, even longer if he wanted to regrow or join the growing numbers of the reborn. The natural span of his people, already measured in hundreds of stellar orbits, had been extended tenfold, a hundredfold even, by the technologies they had invented over the aeons. The gift of Vaul, the knowledge of artifice, had made them masters of the stars and their own bodies.
From this, we get that natural Eldar lifespans are measured in hundreds of years, which supports the oft-toted '1000 years on average' figure. That can, as we know, be extended by various means - psychic power for the likes of Eldrad, mastery of biological technology for Urien Rakarth, being so pants-wettingly terrifying that old age runs from you rather than the other way around for Vect. The Pre-fall Eldar basically seemed to live as long as they wanted - dying and being reborn was effectively reduced to being something you tried out when you wanted to experiment, like getting a tattoo.

Saunders
10-06-2016, 22:16
That's a good way of putting it.

Perversor
10-06-2016, 23:47
Just a bit of info to fill some answers.

According to a WD history Vect been alive from before Slaanesh birth, according to him he was going to be sacrificed by a cult when the fall happened and he luckily survived.

Wytch cults it's probably the only Gender discrimination group in eldar society we know, Howling Banshee are mostly female but males while rare are also able to join them without restrictions (still the armor is meant to represent the female spirit of legend)

I think it's in black library Xenology where it's explained that the eldar race is somehow capable to *adapt* their genetic traits subsconsciusly within time, thus explaining why any of them can become a Psyker or stop being one ir just move from a Craftworlder to Dark eldar life and adapt like nothing.

Malefactum
11-06-2016, 05:57
Well, they are all psychers anyway. Much of their technology is based on psychic links. From controlling the local transportation systems to simple door mechanics. It's even half of a subconcious thing.

Sai-Lauren
11-06-2016, 08:16
Just a bit of info to fill some answers.

According to a WD history Vect been alive from before Slaanesh birth, according to him he was going to be sacrificed by a cult when the fall happened and he luckily survived.

The Dark Eldar also practise resurrection, so along with their soul consumption rejuvenating them, it's not impossible for particular powerful individuals to effectively live forever.



I think it's in black library Xenology where it's explained that the eldar race is somehow capable to *adapt* their genetic traits subsconsciusly within time, thus explaining why any of them can become a Psyker or stop being one ir just move from a Craftworlder to Dark eldar life and adapt like nothing.
Way back in RT, Eldar were the most psychic race (75% chance for heroes), so it's probably more that they supress most of their psychic abilities (both conciously and via dampeners) unless they're actually on a seer path, and even then they limit themselves, so as not to attract the attentions of Slaanesh.

Saunders
11-06-2016, 14:14
Craftworld Eldar are taught from birth to use their psychic potential in a safe and restrained manner. Those on the Path of the Seer learn to harness psychic power.

The Inevitable One
17-06-2016, 19:46
Is there a real possibility of the Dark Eldar, or at least a major portion of them, merging with the rest of the Eldar if Commorragh is overrun by daemonic forces? I understand that Vect and Rakarth have pocket dimensions with lots of resources, but I am guessing they can't bring all of them. If this played out, would we start to see a 40k version of Warhammer's 'The End Times', where Naggaroth and Ulthuan are either overrun or destroyed, thereby seeing a unified race?

Rogue Star
17-06-2016, 19:55
Is there a real possibility of the Dark Eldar, or at least a major portion of them, merging with the rest of the Eldar if Commorragh is overrun by daemonic forces? I understand that Vect and Rakarth have pocket dimensions with lots of resources, but I am guessing they can't bring all of them. If this played out, would we start to see a 40k version of Warhammer's 'The End Times', where Naggaroth and Ulthuan are either overrun or destroyed, thereby seeing a unified race?

Could be... although this could be considered a sign that the Rhana Dandra had begun...

Xisor
18-06-2016, 12:33
Possibly, but I hope not.

Recall that the boundaries of Eldar life are more porous than they first appear. Dark Eldar can become Craftworlders, Craftworlders join Harlequins etc. In those respects, there's just much more Eldar than there ever were elves. Grudges are much less faction-based, much more personal.

Saunders
18-06-2016, 22:27
Merge with the Craftworlds? No. Ally themselves with the Craftworlds? Yes. As refugees, it would be a pretty easy choice to make.

insectum7
24-06-2016, 00:10
Off the wall related question: Dark Eldar have no psykers but mould Wraithbone? Is it that DE just have no battle-psykers, but still have psychic wraithbone "techs"? Or is DE stuff not Wraithobne? I have literally no idea.

mightymconeshot
24-06-2016, 04:45
It is not wraithbone specifically because they don't have psykers to mould it. They wield certain weapons which are made from tortured wraithbone that they capture i guess, but it has been a while since I read the 5th edition codex.

blackcherry
24-06-2016, 08:33
I imagine they can adjust it, but crudely. Hence the tortured wraithbone bit - they aren't able to actually shape it psychically, so they resort to more brutal techniques. It's vandalism in effect.

I've hypothesized that pieces tend to be rare, not only if only because craftworlds won't give it up easily, but because having such a psychically attuned object is quite risky in Dark Eldar society because of the potential it holds (both good and bad). As such, those individuals who hold it are more likely to come under attack.

Just fan fic of a sort. But it adds a bit of depth to a minor item in the codex.

Arijharn
24-06-2016, 10:04
The Dark Eldar manufacture things in the more 'mundane' way. Kabal's own the manufactories though; in the recent codex it goes on to say that one of the Kabal's have gained great wealth due to the status symbol owning her :(her being the controlling Archon) gear has become. It doesn't state specifically what sort of techniques they use other than you can implicitly rule out things like Wraithbone simply because of how psychically atrophied the species has become. I would suggest it's as mundane as we'd expect if only because Commorragh is primarily slave market driven, and getting slaves to assemble components would seem to fit with their background, even if it may just be pressing buttons etc.

insectum7
24-06-2016, 17:56
^@ "Psychically atrophied" If the DE are able to leave and eventually join a Craftworld, are they really psychically atrophied? I would think "Psychically repressed" more like. I'd think that DE are still inherently psychic, but culturally suppress it for protection, while Craftworld Eldar openly train/enhance/use it.

Interesting responses about the Wraithbone though, thanks!

Saunders
27-06-2016, 18:00
Wraithbone fetches a high price in Commorragh because they can't produce it themselves, but being that it's a material born from the Warp, it resonates with the powerful negative emotions that they're keen on eliciting from others. That's tantamount to poisoning the wraithbone, which is how it is described that the Dark Eldar interact with it. Such a material can be useful for enhancing the anguish inflicted with its use, having a powerful effect on the psyche of others. That's why you often hear about exotic wraithbone devices created in Commorragh and used for anything from torturing the souls of others to imprisoning daemons and driving them mad with torment.

Psychically atrophied is the exact phrase you would use to describe the Dark Eldar. After generations of suppressing their psychic capabilities, any individual attempting to manifest their powers for the first time would find that they're less potent than a newborn, having neglected that aspect of their mind for the entirety of their lives. Atrophy implies that their psychic power has wasted away with disuse over an extended period. If you spend your life not using your legs, the muscles will atrophy and become useless. Over generations of disuse, you may find that your legs are incapable of working in the way that they did for your ancestors who actually used them. Don't expect a convert from the Dark Eldar to be a potent psyker upon leaving their society, they would be completely incapable at the start.

insectum7
28-06-2016, 17:26
The "unused muscle" notion makes a ton of sense for individuals. But are they "psychically atrophied" in regards to DE as a race, genetically, as though they had no/less psychic potential to begin with upon birth? (has it been enough generations since the fall to breed out innate psychic potential?)

My impression is that Slaanesh likes Eldar souls because they have a more potent "taste", because of their inherently more potent presence in the warp, but DE "sour" their own souls.

Saunders
28-06-2016, 18:11
I won't presume to know because it has never been explicitly stated, but I think the Dark Eldar as a race have repressed their psychic cabilities. The important thing to realise in this scenario is that the Eldar are physically and mentally unlike humans, and their development as a species since being elevated by the Old Ones has been unnatural. I mean, we're talking about beings that can heal otherwise moral injuries by imposing sufficient force of will upon their bodies. After all, the Dark Eldar themselves have already developed the means to replenish their souls through others. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that the Dark Eldar can actually force biological changes through a similar fashion.

That's all speculation, needless to say. The only thing I can say with certainty that the ban on psychics in every capacity is total and endemic to Commorragh, in such a fashion that it's not even discussed as a point of contention in their society.

Regarding your impression, you are correct that the Eldar have potent souls, and thus are extra-delicious daemon food (and Dark Eldar food, for that matter). Dark Eldar souls are fundamentally no different from other Eldar souls, though. They avoid the trappings of being psykers in order to avoid drawing undue attention from Slaanesh, being that using psychic power in an unguarded fashion is essentially making a connecton directly to the Warp and lighting up your mind, body, and soul with an "open for business" sign. The only 'souring' of Dark Eldar souls would be from Slaanesh himself whittling them away. Unprotected Eldar such as the Dark Eldar and Corsairs are doomed to waste away or be driven mad in time by this process, which is why the Dark Eldar have developed the means to refill their souls and revitalize themselves through the suffering of others, ala psychic vampirism.

Malefactum
28-06-2016, 20:04
Eldar souls aren't sweet because of being psychers but because that's what Slaanesh is made of in the first place. Dark Eldar souls are the same tasty to her as Craftworlder-souls. DE just don't have the same protection as Craftworlders have - the Waystones. I don't know why Dark Eldar mock about Waystones, if I were a bad guy, I'd prefer using such a simple 'device' and keep using my evil psycher-connections instead of suppressing a part of myself. Especially since Dark Eldar make jokes on Craftworlders because they suppress their true nature. Kind of ironic.

insectum7
28-06-2016, 20:10
I won't presume to know because it has never been explicitly stated, but I think the Dark Eldar as a race have repressed their psychic cabilities. The important thing to realise in this scenario is that the Eldar are physically and mentally unlike humans, and their development as a species since being elevated by the Old Ones has been unnatural. I mean, we're talking about beings that can heal otherwise moral injuries by imposing sufficient force of will upon their bodies. After all, the Dark Eldar themselves have already developed the means to replenish their souls through others. It's entirely within the realm of possibility that the Dark Eldar can actually force biological changes through a similar fashion.

That's all speculation, needless to say. The only thing I can say with certainty that the ban on psychics in every capacity is total and endemic to Commorragh, in such a fashion that it's not even discussed as a point of contention in their society.

Regarding your impression, you are correct that the Eldar have potent souls, and thus are extra-delicious daemon food (and Dark Eldar food, for that matter). Dark Eldar souls are fundamentally no different from other Eldar souls, though. They avoid the trappings of being psykers in order to avoid drawing undue attention from Slaanesh, being that using psychic power in an unguarded fashion is essentially making a connecton directly to the Warp and lighting up your mind, body, and soul with an "open for business" sign. The only 'souring' of Dark Eldar souls would be from Slaanesh himself whittling them away. Unprotected Eldar such as the Dark Eldar and Corsairs are doomed to waste away or be driven mad in time by this process, which is why the Dark Eldar have developed the means to refill their souls and revitalize themselves through the suffering of others, ala psychic vampirism.

Hmm, ok. So possibly just repressed, but possibly bred/engineered out of some/many individuals. In regards to "souring" I may be misremembering some description or piece of fiction from way back when. (like 3rd. Ed.)

Alright, so I'm curious to clarify these relationships. So the ban on psychic powers in Commoragh is total, because it's dangerous. But it's fine on Craftworlds? I guess the obvious difference is that Commoragh exists in the webway?

Non Eldar psykers appear to be able to use their powers in Commoragh. A SM Librarian uses his powers during the Vect coup. Presumably captured psykers attempt to use their powers to escape. (although may be suppressed via DE tech somehow) Are there any other tidbits of information around these circumstances? Seems like powers can be used, but Eldar just don't do it because they shine particularly brightly to She Who Thirsts. It's not like Commoragh as a whole has a "null field" or anything. (although smaller null sections might exist)

If an Eldar uses their powers in Commoragh(or webway), is that dangerous beyond affecting the individual casting? (near instant daemon portal or something?)

carlisimo
28-06-2016, 20:40
My impression was that using psychic powers in Commorragh increased the chance of a disjunction, a tear in the walls of the Webway. That’s why it’s not a problem on a craftworld – they aren’t inside the Webway so they’re more isolated from the Warp. A Librarian wouldn’t mind if that happened.

blackcherry
28-06-2016, 21:00
In the second of the Dark Eldar path novels, an Incubi fights a Exodite world spirit that has been corrupted by a deamon. During the confrontation he uses psychic powers quite openly, but in a scattershot way that shows no finesse or real control.

I suppose that makes sense with Dark Eldar - if they were to somehow be in a space that was safe from risk of incurring a disjunction (and an Exodite world is pretty safe) and they could use them, it would be like someone learning to use them for the first time, but with none of the mental barriers or control that Craftworld Eldar build up during their lives.

Perversor
28-06-2016, 21:28
Eldar souls aren't sweet because of being psychers but because that's what Slaanesh is made of in the first place. Dark Eldar souls are the same tasty to her as Craftworlder-souls. DE just don't have the same protection as Craftworlders have - the Waystones. I don't know why Dark Eldar mock about Waystones, if I were a bad guy, I'd prefer using such a simple 'device' and keep using my evil psycher-connections instead of suppressing a part of myself. Especially since Dark Eldar make jokes on Craftworlders because they suppress their true nature. Kind of ironic.

The thing with a waystone it's that you just rely on a one way ticket to salvation, if the moment you die the gem can't properly capture your soul (wrong attunement or broken gem) then your soul dies/is devoured by slaanesh and you vanish forever, also you are bounded to that gem fate after your death, like being lost in some battlefield and still prone to be destroyed/damaged and die or be recovered and returned to some craftworld infinity circuit.

Dark eldar don't rely on waystones so their *deaths* obey some other rules they managed to bend, while the process may lead to some minor damage to the dark eldar in the long rung (Urien rakarth wich the codex claims created the regeneration process has died so many times his body it's everytime less *perfect* and show some kind of mutations) can on the other hand live at their fullest (aside dabble in psyker games) and still expect to be returned to life because they had some deal with some hemonculi that preserved a part of them.

Xisor
28-06-2016, 22:35
The "unused muscle" notion makes a ton of sense for individuals. But are they "psychically atrophied" in regards to DE as a race, genetically, as though they had no/less psychic potential to begin with upon birth? (has it been enough generations since the fall to breed out innate psychic potential?)

I distinctly remember Xenology making comment about the Eldar in this fashion. It was derived from only two datapoints, if memory serves, but the conclusion that the investigator reached was that the two Eldar specimens were, at a genetic level, more akin to incredibly high-precision manufactured goods - no hint of deviation or genetic drift down the centuries because nothing had changed.

Of course, that was for an early Eldar and a Craftworlder - so it doesn't strictly apply to the Dark Eldar. Nevertheless, if it's the case that Eldar genetics are incredibly durable and persistent (and only the haemonculi[...] seem inclined/skilled-enough to tinker with it), then I'd expect the Dark Eldar to be more or less indistinguishable from other Eldar.

Certainly, that sort of thinking appeals to me (unsurprisingly - I thought it!) - it goes neatly with both a grand sense of eternity about them, as well as a strangely fleeting quality. They might last for eternity, but their minds might not necessarily be cut out for the true scale of eternity.

(If it took them longer than sixty-five million years to 'fall' - they seem to have been doing okay at it, for a while... until that business with the psychically gestated cosmic horror...)

Saunders
28-06-2016, 23:52
The thing with a waystone it's that you just rely on a one way ticket to salvation, if the moment you die the gem can't properly capture your soul (wrong attunement or broken gem) then your soul dies/is devoured by slaanesh and you vanish forever, also you are bounded to that gem fate after your death, like being lost in some battlefield and still prone to be destroyed/damaged and die or be recovered and returned to some craftworld infinity circuit.

Dark eldar don't rely on waystones so their *deaths* obey some other rules they managed to bend, while the process may lead to some minor damage to the dark eldar in the long rung (Urien rakarth wich the codex claims created the regeneration process has died so many times his body it's everytime less *perfect* and show some kind of mutations) can on the other hand live at their fullest (aside dabble in psyker games) and still expect to be returned to life because they had some deal with some hemonculi that preserved a part of them.

Don't kid yourself, regeneration is a process only available to a privileged few and is more uncertain than preservation of the soul with a spirit stone.

ryng_sting
29-06-2016, 05:35
In fact, their codex states that most DE enter into a regeneration pact with the haemonculi at some point or another.

Also, the Asurmen novel seems to imply that regeneration technology was around before the Fall.

Malefactum
29-06-2016, 14:24
In the second of the Dark Eldar path novels, an Incubi fights a Exodite world spirit that has been corrupted by a deamon. During the confrontation he uses psychic powers quite openly, but in a scattershot way that shows no finesse or real control.Do we remember the same book? The world-spirit wasn't corrupted by a deamon, it was a raging dragon manifested by the anger of the population and world itself. I also can't remember the Incubi having used any psychic powers at all. Any specific pages you might be able to name?

Saunders
29-06-2016, 14:50
No, you remember it pretty well. It wasn't a psychic attack. The only thing I'd add is that it was implied that Morr was able to able to master the World Spirit's rage and channel it against the warlock/daemon because of his heritage as an exodite ...and being full of rage all the time.

Karhedron
04-07-2016, 15:11
Would it be correct to say that the Eldar and Dark Eldar are polar opposites/two halves, in that the Eldar are the spiritual portion, while the Dark Eldar are the physical portion?

Not really. Each of the 4 factions of the Eldar race represent a different survival mechanism against the depredations of Slaanesh. You could argue that the Exodites are the most physical of the factions since they avoid technology and sensation in favour of hard living and manual labour.