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View Full Version : Yet another help me decide on an army thread ='{



Pantomime
11-07-2006, 19:53
Hey, I'm deciding to get back into GW games and I will start with fantasy. I have previously Played Undead and Dark Elves in 4th edition (thats how long its been since I've played. My fiance will take a shot at it as well, she loves the painting aspect so the look of the models is really what sets it in for her. Choosing an army for her will be easy, I on the other hand am far more indicisive when choosing any thing customizable =/ sooo many options and I love them all. In any case these are the qualities I look for in an army.

- Flexability/versitility : I like to have an assortment of troops to choose from that allows different play styles. I also like the option to change my strategy mid game if I need to (I am not sure if I would go as far to say a reactive army).

- Finesse: I like for there to be a challenge for me to win my victories, I really dont like anything really overpowered. This goes into me liking percision and a steap learning curve. The more I loose initially the better.

- Fluff: I tend to not like overly benevolent good guys (which isn't really a problem in the warhammer universe, choas has done a good job to make sure all the races have some "taint"). I also dont like having a seizure while looking at my army (I know I can paint them any way I want, guess I was just ruling out bretonians).

Basicly what I've narrowed it down to threw my own comparisons:

High Elves
Empire
Lizardmen
Ogre Kingdoms
Dark Elves
Wood Elves (I'm not huge on elves, they just seem to be the most frail, glass cannons if you will)

I've basicly settled on the Idea of Eldar for 40k they seem to fit my description fairly well. I am open to suggestions on other armies as well. Thanks for your time.

ebolatheripe
11-07-2006, 20:57
You may want to think about Tzeentch mortals as an option. There characters are very powerful, and are the best warriors/mages in the game. But because of the characters high points cost, there armies are almost always outnumbered by a large margin, there army has the lowest leadership of any Chaos army, and have access to a lot of very fast and varied units. Learning to tactically use Tzeentchian magic, maneuvering, and combined charges is key to winning with this army and sounds like it covers all of your criteria. The only thing that you may not like is that they can't change tactics as easily as some armies, but that may just add to the challenge of wielding them effectively.

Pantomime
12-07-2006, 10:07
they do sound interesting, mortals as in no demons? and can any one tell me how these armies stack up?

sigur
12-07-2006, 14:04
I'd say, go for an Elven army.

- Flexibility/Versatility: Those armies contain almost everything you could have (Monsters, light to medium Infantry, fast cavalary, heavy cavalary, missile troops, warmachines, skirmishers, flyers, ...)

- Finesse: An Elven unit can not charge another unit of about the same size and win a war of attrition. The single units have to work together, you have to hit flanks and rears to be successful.

- fluff: Elves have very good fluff as well as old fluff which is always a joy to read.

metallegion
12-07-2006, 14:26
I would go Empire or HE. Both of these armies have a good wide variety to make up there lists.

Brock Samson
12-07-2006, 15:30
If they were not on the threshold of having new models, I would say Orcs & Goblins for sheer troop variety. Empire also have a lot of variety. I don't see a lot of variety (comparatively) in the Ogre Kingdoms. I am a Wood Elf player, and their variety is ok, but you will miss out on the block to block action. You do have to be crafty to win with them though (at least with the lists that I field).

Pantomime
12-07-2006, 15:49
orcs come off as some what unreliable and alot of randomness (in fighting?). Now from what I can tell, empire and HE are basicly the same minus the gunpowder. Am I incorrect with this statement, what other differences do they have (oh and detachments)

scavenseer
12-07-2006, 16:03
I would go for lizardmen, as they are a fun army to collect and everyone likes dinosaurs, righty?:)

Pantomime
12-07-2006, 16:13
Are there any fantasy armies comparble to eldar i.e very specialized units, they do 1 thing well (the units)

scavenseer
13-07-2006, 10:05
You already own them... UNDEAD and Dark elves:eyebrows:

Omeg
13-07-2006, 11:57
Dark elves are nice now that the beastmasters can keep up with the hydra

Viskrit
13-07-2006, 13:14
Are there any fantasy armies comparble to eldar i.e very specialized units, they do 1 thing well (the units)
If you want an army which is similar to Eldar, go for Elves. They are very fragile, yet they are some of the fastest armies around.

They strike with pinpoint accuracy, and are very fun to field. Which kind of Elves, you decide. I only have experience of playing High Elves, and I can say that they are very fun.

Brock Samson
13-07-2006, 13:24
Orcs have a tendency to be random, but only in the sense of their animosity. Stick a unit of Black Orcs in the middle of your 150-180 or so models, with a Warboss in their ranks, and they do a good job at quelling animosity. In HTH, orcs can be quite a handful, the extra toughness n' all. Their leadership isn't terrific, but it's not awful, unless you are fielding a goblin army.

Pantomime
13-07-2006, 14:34
right now it seems elves or empire. My rundown analysis (feel free to add to or correct me)

Wood Elves: Skirmishers, Guerilla warfare, Fantasy Tau?

Dark Elves: offensive High Elves ?

High Elves: Empire without gunpowder and numbers, Defensive Dark Elves ?

Empire: IG of fantasy? elves with science?

Viskrit
13-07-2006, 14:39
That's about right. However, High Elves are quite good on the offense. All Elf armies are offensive by nature.

Dark Elves make more use of quick cavalry, scouts and monsters, while High Elves tend to go with lots of Heavy cavalry and stuff. That's my take on it.

Empire aren't quite "elves with science". They have slower movement, and less weapon skill and ballistic skill.

gorenut
13-07-2006, 19:46
Out of the choices and meeting your criteria I'd say you should go either Empire, Lizardmen, or Dark Elves.

High Elves may look flexible on paper, but their current army list is a bit rough and as a whole it forces you to either do a cav heavy or magic heavy list to be competitive. Thats when people start crying cheese or whatever.

Wood Elves actually play like how I'd imagine elves, but they aren't as flexible as some of the other choices you named. You miss out on some of the rank and file goodness.

The Dark Elf list is much more refined than the High Elf list after the revision. Their common warriors are not only great models, but they are some of the most flexible troops. You can actually viably arm them all with shield, hand weapon, and repeater crossbow and they'll still be effective pointswise. Their other models look great too, especially the Executioners (my personal favorite RnF troop models) So you get the Elven specialism, speed, while still getting the flexibility to play static combat res and shooting with the warriors if you want. Not to say high elves can't do it, but dark elves do it better with the price cut of their warriors.

If it's flexibility you want though, I think Lizardmen and Empire are pretty much the masters of these. Empire is a jack of all trades. They can participate in anything decently and have counters for most things out there. UNless you make a gunline, no one will usually consider them cheesy. Plus you can take just about any DoW unit and the army will still be fluffy. I personally run an Empire army whcih I'm branching into a DoW army as well, which only takes a few more adjustments. Something you might want to keep in mind. Lizardmen are just solid in every aspect of the game. The difference with Lizardmen is that you can take super characters. So if you want an army with flexibility and want to take characters of epic proportions, Lizardmen are a nice choice.

EDIT: OH yea, if you're thinking of going Empire, you might just want to atleast wait till the end of this year. They're getting new models after the orcs and its rumored they have a new army box coming out for xmas.

Pantomime
13-07-2006, 21:00
yeah, thats what's holding me back from empire, I really like the gunpowder/steamtech feel as well, and that engineer that uses a peasant(?) as a foot stand and to hold up his rifles kickstand = classic. Also, I thought all the armies where getting revision, even if not the 7th rules will change the game quite a bit. Lizardmen would loose alot of there skirmish cheese (?) (I like saurus warriors too much not to field them), I'm not sure how DE magic will change. How does a Tzeentch chaos list stack up (chaos seems rather overpowered I think)? In the end I feel like I will probably settle for Empire, but I have to weigh all my options first. BTW has any one told you your avatar looks like the BK King? :p

ebolatheripe
13-07-2006, 21:23
Some people feel Chaos is over powered in some ways such as having such a large selection, but Tzeentch Mortals is definitely not overpowered if you don't go the all chariots and characters, or the cliche Lord on a dragon with staff and eye rout.

They have some tactically great daemonic units like Screamers (flying demons that can hunt war machines and lone characters), Horrors (weak in combat but can cast spells) and Flamers (single model shooting units, like a detachment to the Horrors).

There mortals are the least dependable of the chaos powers because they don't have any leadership based special rules like the other powers, but that is just compared to the other Chaos factions. Their leadership isn't bad in comparison to most army's in the game and you can mitigate that by having a Battle Standard bearer or banner of the gods (if you take an Undivided General).

The selection of units is huge and can be tailored to your play style.

To answer your question from before, yes you can use demons but only so many if your General isn't a Demon.

gorenut
14-07-2006, 00:32
It sounds like you might as well go with Lizardmen or Empire. Out of the two, if you like modeling and conversions.. I think Empire offers you more. My Empire army's core consists of almost entirely of the Militia box. I have my halberdiers, my swordsmen (yea, I had to order shields, but it was well worth it), my free company, archers, handgunners.. etc. All of them sans spearmen. Also its a great army that'll let you experiment and expand. You can either take DoW stuff without any care of it not being fluffy, because almost everything fits in it.. or you can like me, branch into a DoW army. There are so many possibilities that it's hard to grow tired of the army.

Only thing you might desire are stronger characters. Empire just lacks the grand epic characters that I actually like. It's kind of the reason why I play Fantasy, for the larger-than-life stuff.. but I guess you can't have it all.

Pantomime
14-07-2006, 01:54
are DoW tourney legal?

gorenut
14-07-2006, 02:08
As far as I know they are. Though that might change with 7th ed. I hope not and I think likely it'll stay the same, simply because the Ogre Kingdom's army book specifically details how to field Ogres in a DoW army and thats a very current army book.

Pantomime
14-07-2006, 04:00
so if I can field ogres with DoW that kinda rules them out, I kinda like the slann priest though. human characters do seem lacking, but the game is about the units right?

gorenut
14-07-2006, 09:06
Well, you can field ogres in just about any army, but the Ogre Kingdom army book allows DoW take Ogres as special units instead of rares.

Yea, ultimately the game is about units, but certain armies have characters that can really alter the way the battle goes (atleast moreso than other races).

ebolatheripe
14-07-2006, 09:23
Yea, ultimately the game is about units, but certain armies have characters that can really alter the way the battle goes (atleast moreso than other races).

Such as Tzeentch:D

Pantomime
17-07-2006, 18:01
unit toughness doesnt really matter to me. I think what I am looking for is mobility and hitting power. The Empire doesnt seem as mobile as the elves but with detachments they have a nice "counter" system. One thing thats been in the back of my mind is whats really a safe bet with 7th comming out and army book revisions? My Idea for empire was get the 6th ed box set for the free 7th book, trade the orcs for more empire and get the empire battlebox(?). I think that would give me enough core troops and I could specialize from there in.

ebolatheripe
17-07-2006, 19:56
unit toughness doesnt really matter to me. I think what I am looking for is mobility and hitting power. The Empire doesnt seem as mobile as the elves but with detachments they have a nice "counter" system. One thing thats been in the back of my mind is whats really a safe bet with 7th comming out and army book revisions? My Idea for empire was get the 6th ed box set for the free 7th book, trade the orcs for more empire and get the empire battlebox(?). I think that would give me enough core troops and I could specialize from there in.

It definitely would give you enough troops. And better yet you wouldn't have to wait long for the new army book to come out.

You may want to get all that, but wait till the new army book comes out to decide if you want to put the Knights and Soldiers together as Knights panther or White wolf,etc...and swordsmen or halberdiers.

gorenut
17-07-2006, 19:59
Personally, if you want to start Empire, I'd still hold off until atleast the Army Box release. There may be a chance that the new models are so awesome that you'll think the old ones just don't fit the bill. That'll definitely take the motivation out of building an army.

Pantomime
17-07-2006, 20:45
lol, I kinda feel in limbo. Unless they loose the puffy shirts I dont think there is much they can change. Then again the old stuff might get discounted further. I can get "Middenheim Siege Defenders Army" for about $80.

gorenut
18-07-2006, 02:37
lol, I kinda feel in limbo. Unless they loose the puffy shirts I dont think there is much they can change. Then again the old stuff might get discounted further. I can get "Middenheim Siege Defenders Army" for about $80.


Well, if you actually hold the Empire models, you'll notice how dated they are. If anything, the new models will atleast be better quality and probably scaled better. Some of the Empire soldiers are on the smaller side. The exception to all this is the Empire Militia sprue. You can easily invest into that and start assembling to your heart's content. So far, rumors all point that these models will stay. They're great anyways and I've built nearly my entire army out of these boxed sets. Again, all up to you though.