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Karak Norn Clansman
05-07-2016, 22:15
Having just stumbled across the first acknowledged former hobbyist returning to Warhammer thanks to Total War, only to disappointedly discover what GW has done to the setting (but collecting old models anyway), I can't help but wonder how common a phenomenon this is in the wake of Total Warhammer's success.

Anyone here thanks to Total Warhammer? Or do you know someone who is back to collecting thanks to the game? What do such returnees think of AoS?

squeekenator
05-07-2016, 23:14
I'm getting back into things mostly because of TW. Not interested in AoS, but I'm quite liking 9th Age so far.

Tokamak
05-07-2016, 23:53
All Total War is doing is vindicating the masochists under us that stayed through the whole ordeal.

herjan1987
06-07-2016, 02:51
I am a new comer to Warhammer thanks to Total War: Warhammer and the guy who sold it to me ( Arch Warhammer find him on youtube ).

In short my thought on GW action are this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTNP792ykYM

In long:

I am really unsure whats GW mindset is when it comes to their products. If they acknowledge that video games are bringing in people to the hobby and they release TW:W, yet destroy the setting and the armies, then these guys are either bonkers or they want to shut down the company. Then they think about Central- Eastern Europe ( Hungary, Ukraine, Poland, Belorus etc ) as a greenfield area know as a person who was born their I can tell you that when they sell Archoan for half of the average Joes monthly salary, then they dont know nothing about business in these areas. If people will buy stuff they will buy KoW from Mantic you get more for cheaper price.
Since the first physical contact with the Warhammer Fantasy ( 4 Thunderer and 2 Dwarf warrior mini ), which was about 3 months ago, I also dived into Mordhem: City of the Damned and Blood Bowl 2. At this point, if GW releases a WHFB background Mordheim it would be instant buy from me. Since I have a sizeable High elf ( mostly special units ) and Dwarf army, with some Battalion box of Tomb Kings, I could easily field some warbands together for it. I would be interested to build a Empire army/warband ( for Mordheim ), if they bring some Empire charactars like Marius Leitdorf.
Also I have some friends who played WHFB and they all agree that the prices of GW are insane and by squatting the specialist games like Epic, Mordheim was a really stupid idea. They also dislike AoS and they think that is not going to work in the long run.

One last thing: I just cant describe the lack of intelligence that they squatted Bretonnia and the Tomb Kings. Okay this is partially biased, because I like those armies, but as see on youtoube many Total War players like them also. Why? Because they are used to medieval and ancient warriors ( France and Egypt, from Medieval and Rome Total War ). These two armies will ( would have been ) be the fan favourite of the traditional Total War players.

Yowzo
06-07-2016, 09:25
Anyone here thanks to Total Warhammer? Or do you know someone who is back to collecting thanks to the game? What do such returnees think of AoS?

There's this one guy who left WHFB mid-7th edition, and he was just playing the occasional 40K every now and then (which is dead for the most part in our area) but mostly X-Wing and Imperial Assault.

He's back into our 9th age group, 4 games played so far.

snyggejygge
06-07-2016, 13:08
My brother got interested again after having quit in 6th edition, when he heard of what had happened to the old world, he just laughed, called GW idiots & proclaimed how he had saved a bunch of money due to not being interested in playing He-man.

Asmodios
06-07-2016, 17:05
I had a friend who I have played video games ask me about getting into tabletop games (he's been a big total war fan) after playing the new TW. He wasn't very interested when I explained they had gone to skirmish and that the "mass battle" version was not supported by GW anymore. Most of my other friends who play TW are already playing 9th so he's the only person I know personally that had gained interest due to the new game.

I think a big market they missed out on was simply repeat customers that have played the new TW. I know every time I'm playing a new campaign mode it makes me want to start that army on the table top (then I remember the world is dead). My group are all starting new armies for 9th but are all using other companies models.
1. I'm doing brets with fireforge and slowly building demons with several different companies
2. younger brother is doing ogres with mantic
2. brother 2 is starting empire with a roman theme (hail Cesar)
4. friend doing chaos with AOW
5. two other friends are still looking at different books and haven't decided yet

The common theme (in my group) seems to be "if GW doesn't support mass battle don't support GW"

Before this, we all had 100% official GW forces because we wanted to be able to play at the local GW stores. We dont have to worry about that anymore so there is no point in buying a GW model unless it really stands out. But mine and my older brothers new armies were inspired by playing TW.

StygianBeach
06-07-2016, 19:49
1. I'm doing brets with fireforge and slowly building demons with several different companies
2. younger brother is doing ogres with mantic
2. brother 2 is starting empire with a roman theme (hail Cesar)
4. friend doing chaos with AOW
5. two other friends are still looking at different books and haven't decided yet

The common theme (in my group) seems to be "if GW doesn't support mass battle don't support GW"


I understand making a Bretonnian army out of Fireforge stuff, all you need is some Halberd heads and you can make everything except Pegasus Knights. This is the main reason I think GW made the right choice in dropping Brets, but to make an Ogre army out of Mantic stuff over GW stuff just sounds like unnecessary hard work for little gain to me.

I think Romans fit Dwarves better than Empire myself, but working with plastic is easy enough (even if Roman Greatswords might be tough). If I was making a Roman Empire army I would wait for Virtix's new EI Romans, they look great, plus in an Roman Empire army there is always the possibility of a Steam Elephant.

The old players I know are still unsure about AoS, but love the new Total War and are happy to have it.

Asmodios
06-07-2016, 21:52
I understand making a Bretonnian army out of Fireforge stuff, all you need is some Halberd heads and you can make everything except Pegasus Knights. This is the main reason I think GW made the right choice in dropping Brets, but to make an Ogre army out of Mantic stuff over GW stuff just sounds like unnecessary hard work for little gain to me.

I think Romans fit Dwarves better than Empire myself, but working with plastic is easy enough (even if Roman Greatswords might be tough). If I was making a Roman Empire army I would wait for Virtix's new EI Romans, they look great, plus in an Roman Empire army there is always the possibility of a Steam Elephant.

The old players I know are still unsure about AoS, but love the new Total War and are happy to have it.
Mantic covers almost everything ogres. The only thing that was a bit tricky to replace were the iron blasters (I think thats what they were called) but he's found suitable replacements for everything and I like the look of his "in shape" ogre army. My older brother is planning out the army but hasn't got time to build it for the next couple of months. But so far the models he's planning on using and the theme of the army is making me wish I had done it. For the Bret's I'm going to do a GOT karstark theme. Realistically I won't get to the painting phase until around christmas though so the theme might change.

SuperHappyTime
08-07-2016, 04:54
Yup, I was thinking the same thing when TW:WH dropped, that they really missed a massive boat of vidya-gamers that may buy Warhammer models.

But then it dawned on me that if I was itching for a Rank & Flank game, playing a few battles in TW:WH (even vs the CPU) was simpler than writing a list packing my models, driving to the game store, and then finding someone to play a round of Warhammer 8th Ed, 9th Age, or Kings of War.

StygianBeach
08-07-2016, 07:17
Yup, I was thinking the same thing when TW:WH dropped, that they really missed a massive boat of vidya-gamers that may buy Warhammer models.

But then it dawned on me that if I was itching for a Rank & Flank game, playing a few battles in TW:WH (even vs the CPU) was simpler than writing a list packing my models, driving to the game store, and then finding someone to play a round of Warhammer 8th Ed, 9th Age, or Kings of War.

Don't forget making the Terrain as well if you want a fancy looking battlefield to fight on. :)

Horace35
08-07-2016, 09:49
Sure it is simpler, but it is not the same thing. Playing on the TT is something very different to gaming. I have always done both and they each scratch different itches :)

Obviously not 100% (or even a massively high %) of gamers would really pick up the TT game, but TW:WH has sold massively already and will no doubt he huge by the time the 3rd game has rolled around. Only a small percent of these people would have equated to some significant for GW

Yowzo
08-07-2016, 10:43
Sure it is simpler, but it is not the same thing. Playing on the TT is something very different to gaming. I have always done both and they each scratch different itches :)

Obviously not 100% (or even a massively high %) of gamers would really pick up the TT game, but TW:WH has sold massively already and will no doubt he huge by the time the 3rd game has rolled around. Only a small percent of these people would have equated to some significant for GW

Now, if the TW guys made a turn-based replication of warhammer rules (dice and all) using the TW graphic engine that would be massive.

Considering the amount of traffic at places like Universal Battle, at least.

Herzlos
08-07-2016, 12:32
If anything, TW is getting me keen to start up some 6/10mm fantasy gaming, with something like the Hail Caesar fantasy set. I can have hordes of thousands of Gobbos on a small table and get a birds eye view of the action.

Horace35
08-07-2016, 13:28
Now, if the TW guys made a turn-based replication of warhammer rules (dice and all) using the TW graphic engine that would be massive.

Considering the amount of traffic at places like Universal Battle, at least.

I expect someone will rip the models out of TW and put them into Tabletop Simulator at some point

Yowzo
08-07-2016, 13:32
If anything, TW is getting me keen to start up some 6/10mm fantasy gaming, with something like the Hail Caesar fantasy set. I can have hordes of thousands of Gobbos on a small table and get a birds eye view of the action.

Hail Caesar comes with 28mm (though it's possible to play on a smaller scale as well).

jtrowell
08-07-2016, 15:40
Another option is using Kings of War, it works perfectly for smaller scale, you just convert the default units sizes to an appropriate smaller dimension as needed, and maybe use the ranges in cm instead of inches.

StygianBeach
08-07-2016, 15:57
Another option is using Kings of War, it works perfectly for smaller scale, you just convert the default units sizes to an appropriate smaller dimension as needed, and maybe use the ranges in cm instead of inches.

Trying to sell KoW again?

Shudson66
08-07-2016, 17:54
Trying to sell KoW again?
Why not it is a great game.

StygianBeach
08-07-2016, 19:36
Why not it is a great game.

Better than Hail Caesar?

What if someone expressed interest in a game... maybe Hail Caesar then someone replied that KoW was a great game... hmmm

My post did not question the merits of KoW.

Teurastaja
08-07-2016, 20:11
If anything, TW is getting me keen to start up some 6/10mm fantasy gaming, with something like the Hail Caesar fantasy set. I can have hordes of thousands of Gobbos on a small table and get a birds eye view of the action.

You made me miss Warmaster so much...

Anyone here tried fantasy rules for Hail Caesar?

Shudson66
08-07-2016, 20:36
Better than Hail Caesar?

What if someone expressed interest in a game... maybe Hail Caesar then someone replied that KoW was a great game... hmmm

My post did not question the merits of KoW.

You are correct you did not question the merits. Sadly the tone I read it in seemed snarky, the problems of reading things on the internet. While I have never tried Hail Caesar I would not discourage people from trying it. I guess what it really comes down to is what is played in your local area. I would encourage anyone to try and play in the local meta. My local meta is currently Dead 8th, little to no AOS, and growing KOW which was chosen over 9th do to no company supporting it. If people were playing Hail Caesar I would give it a try. Games come and go I started table top in Battletech, which I still love but in not played around here much. I say find what you like an play it, even AOS, not for me but why rain on someone else parade.

StygianBeach
08-07-2016, 22:17
You are correct you did not question the merits. Sadly the tone I read it in seemed snarky, the problems of reading things on the internet.

Thanks for that :)

I guess it was a bit snarky though :(.

jtrowell
11-07-2016, 09:08
Better than Hail Caesar?

What if someone expressed interest in a game... maybe Hail Caesar then someone replied that KoW was a great game... hmmm

My post did not question the merits of KoW.

And mine didn't question the merits of Hail Caesar.

Herzlos mentionned that Warhammer Total War made him wishing to play in the warhammer world at 10mm and Hail Caesar was mentionned, and someone else mentionned that Hail Caesar was initially 28mm but worked also at smaller scale, I simply mentionned that a similar option that would work well was KoW, you were the one to see an attack against Hail Caesar where there was none.

And the "Kings of War is a great game" was by someone else in answer to you own post, not in mine.

So please let's keep the discussion cordial and keep on topic.

Herzlos
11-07-2016, 10:16
Hail Caesar comes with 28mm (though it's possible to play on a smaller scale as well).
It's base agnostic, so I don't see why it wouldn't work in smaller scales. I've only played it in 28mm (on a 12' table) though.


Better than Hail Caesar?

What if someone expressed interest in a game... maybe Hail Caesar then someone replied that KoW was a great game... hmmm

My post did not question the merits of KoW.

No reason I couldn't play both. I said Hail Caesar because I've played it before and I know there's a fantasy supplement coming.
Does Kings Of War work as-is in <15mm? It has fixed base sizes? I'd probably base everything to DBx spec anyway (40mm frontage) so multiples of that are easy to get away with.

I'm always open to suggestions though :)


Anyone here tried fantasy rules for Hail Caesar?

Not yet. I'm hoping they'll be compatible with the historics, so that my Spartans/Persians/Indians can battle Orcs and Lizardmen.

jtrowell
11-07-2016, 13:34
(...)
No reason I couldn't play both. I said Hail Caesar because I've played it before and I know there's a fantasy supplement coming.


Well said. ^_^

I must say that I am curious of what their fantasy supplement will look like.




Does Kings Of War work as-is in <15mm? It has fixed base sizes? I'd probably base everything to DBx spec anyway (40mm frontage) so multiples of that are easy to get away with.


Yes, in fact what matter is not the individual model bases but the whole unit footprint.

You might simply chose to play with the exact same footprint as 28mm but with 10mm models, having your units represent a much larger, and closer to real battle, number of soldiers (this would even allow you to play against 28mm armies), or you might use smaller base as both players use the same convention.

For exemple players using Warmaster models use one infantry stand for a troop, 2 stands one behind the other for a regiment, and 4 stands in 2x2 for a horde for exemple (a legion would be 2x3)

If you want to use 40mm multibases, I would probably use 2 bases for a troop, 4 for a regiment (2x2), and 8 for a horde (4x2) of normal infantry




I'm always open to suggestions though :)

Not yet. I'm hoping they'll be compatible with the historics, so that my Spartans/Persians/Indians can battle Orcs and Lizardmen.

Are you talking about Hail Caesar or KoW ? For KoW there is indeed a historical supplement planned for this fall where the core rules should be compatible with the Fantasy version.

For Hail Caesar I'm not sure, I suppose that it will probably be as compatible as their other games like Pikke and shotte ?

Herzlos
11-07-2016, 16:10
I meant Hail Caesar, in that I assume it's more or less the same rules but with additions. Good to know that KoW has a historical supplement, as that'll let me do the same thing (and justify all of the 15mm historics I haven't opened up yet)

StygianBeach
11-07-2016, 21:32
And mine didn't question the merits of Hail Caesar.

Herzlos mentionned that Warhammer Total War made him wishing to play in the warhammer world at 10mm and Hail Caesar was mentionned, and someone else mentionned that Hail Caesar was initially 28mm but worked also at smaller scale, I simply mentionned that a similar option that would work well was KoW, you were the one to see an attack against Hail Caesar where there was none.

And the "Kings of War is a great game" was by someone else in answer to you own post, not in mine.

So please let's keep the discussion cordial and keep on topic.

Sure, I would say KoW works better in 15mm and smaller scales, however Herzlos mentioned Hail Caesar him/herself. I did not see your post as an attack on Hail Caesar itself, more as an attempt to sell KoW when someone expresses interest in a different gaming system.

KoW is a great game, but I think if someone expresses in interest in a particular game (like Hail Caesar) then simply replying with a suggesting they try a different game is inconsiderate. If you had written a comparison between the 2 systems, then I would not have felt compelled to comment.


I'm always open to suggestions though :)

However I may have jumped the gun.

My mistake.