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jangartharn1
10-07-2016, 14:55
Hey guys. So I'm making a genestealer hybrid army. I'm curious as to which vehicles would be allowed to bolster their ranks. Would imperium vehicles be allowed or no? Anyone who would or could help me figure this out would be much appreciated. Thanks! :)

Mr_Rose
10-07-2016, 16:05
Hey guys. So I'm making a genestealer hybrid army. I'm curious as to which vehicles would be allowed to bolster their ranks. Would imperium vehicles be allowed or no? Anyone who would or could help me figure this out would be much appreciated. Thanks! :)

At this time there's not really any such thing as a genestealer hybrid (cult) army. Closest you get is the formation in white dwarf that hot published along side the boxed game.
Unfortunately that restricts you to using allies for anything that isn't a hybrid on foot. And, in turn, that means no transports at all because genestealer cults have no battle brother allies that have transport vehicles. Sorry.

Fluffwise they ought to have access to the vehicles of the race they hybridised with, which usually means Imperial Guard stuff and I'm sure you shouldn't have too much difficulty persuading people to let you put hybrids in chimaeras. Just don't expect that to fly at a tournament.

jangartharn1
10-07-2016, 16:50
Alright I'm fine with that. To be honest I'm not that good at warhammer and I just play for fun. ;)

Casper Hawser
10-07-2016, 20:02
In the days of 2nd edition they could use any of following Land Raider, Rhino, Predator, Leman Russ, Chimera, Sentinal.

I think this is where unbound really comes in. I'd be chuffed to bits playing against a list made up of Genestealer cult along with some imperial vehicles. Makes me think of reading about Genestealer cults back in the days of Rogue Trader when I was a kid.
You just need to check your usual opponents would be up for it.


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Sureshot05
11-07-2016, 07:52
I think Mr. Rose has it succinctly. Rules-wise there is no allowance except for unbound and units starting far apart.

Fluff wise, you could justify guard vehicles with ease and maybe the Rhino. Things have moved on since 2nd Ed and I think the land raider would be much harder to justify now. I am fairly sure most players will allow you to take an allied guard formation. The image of a basilisk manned by hybrids is quite cool.
For the leaders unit, a rhinox, or a Valkyrie could be justified at a stretch, but stick with the Chimera and I doubt you will even raise an eyebrow. Get some pictures up in the painting plogs when its done!

Abaraxas
11-07-2016, 10:08
I'm an RT/2nd guy, and Stealer Cults appropriated (read infected) the local PDF (Planetary Defense Force's) personnel and armament- so anything the Imperial Guard uses is fair game.
The Cult Limo is possibly the most iconic.

Casper Hawser
11-07-2016, 10:33
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160711/006ba3b60d156ae08f327bc36e3dde80.jpg
The good old days when you could create your own vehicle rules.


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Azazyll
11-07-2016, 14:48
This all worked better when different imperial armies had different ally rules. Basically anyone should be allowed to ally with IG, representing mercenaries working with Orks or Tau, PDFs corrupted by Xenos or Chaos, etc.

Elbows of Death
11-07-2016, 14:49
Depends on which era of fluff you're interested in. The further back you go the more unified the Imperium was (namely due to lack of model kits). The original ad for the Predator tank stated it was used by the Space Marines and the Imperial Army etc. It was only a bit later in 2nd when rhinos/predators/land-raiders became truly Space Marine-only vehicles.

So, really old fluff? Whatever Imperium based vehicles you want.

Newer fluff? Imperial Guard vehicles should all be fair play.

Casper Hawser
11-07-2016, 16:37
I'm picturing a cult imperial knight[emoji3]


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R.D.
11-07-2016, 16:41
If you're in a casual game and your opponent is fine with a bit of fluffiness, yeah, I say go for Chimeras and Tauroxes, which should work the best.

Elbows of Death
11-07-2016, 17:47
I'm picturing a cult imperial knight[emoji3]


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I was actually thinking about a cool narrative campaign pitting Sisters of Battle and a handful of Knights fighting against an encroaching Genestealer Cult which is spreading over the planet. A Knight stomping around covered in genestealers...

LegioDestructor
11-07-2016, 17:51
Use the Imperial Guard rules.

Hybrids = Guardsmen
Aberrants = Ogryns/Bullgryns
Cult limousines = Taurox / Centaur

Might not be able to use the Primus or purestrains, but you have limos!

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Dryaktylus
11-07-2016, 17:53
I'm picturing a cult imperial knight[emoji3]


Well... (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/House_Mortimer) But I'm pretty sure this is not the best way to get the acceptance of other players.

For fun games the Looted Wagon rules should be fine.

Casper Hawser
11-07-2016, 18:23
I was actually thinking about a cool narrative campaign pitting Sisters of Battle and a handful of Knights fighting against an encroaching Genestealer Cult which is spreading over the planet. A Knight stomping around covered in genestealers...

Yeah your ideas better. I really hope GW do release a Genestealer cult codex with the use of imperial vehicle's. It's such a great army for campaigns.


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Humanoid
11-07-2016, 23:30
Caveat: I have not played 40K since 5th edition, and have an attitude that "counts as" armies are fine and are great when the player builds a stunning army on a theme.

Instead of battle lines between two land opponents, one has to think in terms of battle spheres for a planet of space, atmosphere, and surface when the Tyranid invasion attacks from space to consume the biomass of the planet. The genestealer cult is not responsible for warfare in the battle spheres of space and atmosphere as that is for the Tyranids. The genestealer cult is responsible for disrupting the command and control elements on the surface which impact the command and control of space, atmosphere, and surface. One means of disruption is through a diversion, for example, creating a land battle where the intent is not to win but to sow confusion and to draw fighting forces away from other locations to increase the probability of successful infiltration and/or assault by the genestealer cult at those other locations.

With not needing to win the battle, and with not responsible for the battle spheres of space and atmosphere, plus being primarily an infiltration force, a genestealer cult often has difficencies in some areas of a battle force. Unless supplemented by infected guard, a genestealer cult has difficencies in areas such as the following:
- walkers
- flyers
- superheavies or greater
- deep striking
- artillery in the definition of modern warfare

So, in my view, not all Imperial vehicles are available to one's genestealer cult. Here are some vehicles that I see as available in someone's genestealer cult:

- Razorback, Predator, Taurox, and Leman Russ

- Chimera: The Special Rule of "Mobile Command Vehicle" is not available to a hybrid crew as the genestealer cult does not have the luxury of conducting any field training exercises. Infected guard retain the Special Rule of "Mobile Command Vehicle".

- Rhino: The Special Rule of "Repair" is not available as the hybrid crew are not trained to repair the vehicle.

- Land Raider: The Special Rule of "Power of the Machine Spirit" is not available as the Machine Spirit wants nothing to do with the hybrid crew.

In the above list of vehicles, a genestealer cult pays the full points cost even with the loss of a special rule. Furthermore, not all items on a vehicle wargear list are available to a genestealer cult for the above vehicles.

Defining one's genestealer cult is tricky, but it is best to build a genestealer cult on a coven by coven basis.

For example, there is a sprawling guard base of thousands of troops in the middle of farming land. One coven has the task of disrupting that guard base. In the countryside around that guard base, some barns are not barns but Land Raiders with a wooden facade. On the signal, the barns disintegrate into Land Raiders and the battle starts. The first reports by the guard base are that they are under attack by Chaos Land Raiders.

For example, citizens of a major city watch as SWAT (Special Weapons And Tactics) vehicles of wheeled Tauroxes race down the street with sirens blaring. One coven has the task of assaulting a command and control center in the major city. There are no SWAT teams inside the wheeled Tauroxes, but hybrid and purestrain genestealers on their mission to attack the command and control center.

LeeBrunish3
13-07-2016, 02:53
I have the Genestealer cult rules in the Chapter Approved tome. Ah the memories

Dr.Clock
13-07-2016, 03:45
Renegades and Heretics are best IMO - same 'ally' rules as Imperium lol; but also 'less experienced', cheaper, and has mutant rules. Maximum conversion potential for stuff like Marauders and Spawn as well, and cheapest [heavy] artillery in the game.

This would be more 'late stage' or 'extreme mutation' type. Obviously 'insidious menace' would be better as increasingly 'human looking/behaving military'. I like me some Gribblies though.

I feel like the Quintus Cult formation does most of what you wanna, and by the time you throw a formation of Genestealers in there [Broodlord Hunting Pack for Broodlord + 3 units of Stealers], basically a Knight for armour in one model might make most budgetary/competitive sense right now at ~1750...

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

memitchell747
14-07-2016, 04:48
Depends on which era of fluff you're interested in. The further back you go the more unified the Imperium was (namely due to lack of model kits). The original ad for the Predator tank stated it was used by the Space Marines and the Imperial Army etc. It was only a bit later in 2nd when rhinos/predators/land-raiders became truly Space Marine-only vehicles.

So, really old fluff? Whatever Imperium based vehicles you want.

Newer fluff? Imperial Guard vehicles should all be fair play.

Technically, the GSC is relatively new, The Deathwatch: Overkill Ghosar Cult is the first encountered by the Imperium, a few hundred years before the current time. I don't think that should be confining.

There are rumors a new GSC Codex is coming in the Fall.

Smooth Boy
14-07-2016, 18:55
I thought Genestealer Cults were getting a small codex with Deathwatch or has this been debunked?

Clang
14-07-2016, 20:03
Yeah, a Genestealer Cult codex (or at least mini-codex) is still rumoured for later this year, so I'd be tempted to wait. If it's terrible, the OP can then take another look at other codexes for the Cultist army to count-as.

Elbows of Death
15-07-2016, 02:26
Didn't they do a formation in White Dwarf for the Deathwatch stuff? I don't play modern 40K nor collect WD but I thought I had heard that on a podcast.

LegioDestructor
15-07-2016, 03:41
Elbows is right, they did. It's the Quintus formation Dr. Clock mentioned, and is still up on the GW site: https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/Deathwatch/40k-rules-deathwatch-en.pdf

It covers the units in DW:O very nicely but doesn't resolve the OP's issue of adding vehicles.

If you want your Genestealer Cult to ride around in transports, use the Astra Militarum codex or the Renegades & Heretics list from Imperial Armour 13. Everything is a Counts-As unit, but this way they can have mechanized infantry (Guardsmen in Tauroxes = hybrids in limousines), but there is no real way to work in the Broodlord and it loses a lot of GSC 'flavour' (you could add the Broodlord formation as Dr. Clock mentions).

If you just want the contents of Deathwatch: Overkill joined by Imperial vehicles, use the Quintus formation and have Astra Militarum or Space Marines (hear me out!) as Come-the-Apocalypse allies. The Guardsmen or SM Scouts (don't use any Terminators / Power Armoured models) would be Fourth Generation hybrids, add tanks and walkers to taste.

Dr.Clock
15-07-2016, 03:51
[Ninja'd] - They did do a formation recently, yes.

It's great for what it is, but it's no codex. All the units, annoyingly, are listed as 'unique' so you can't just take the formation twice for a 1200 point list, which I would do if it were legal. There's no ability to take transports, so it's not really relevant to this discussion, but it does provide good [appropriate] rules for the cult... My suspicion is that mixed with a Broodlord Hunting Pack and something else, it could be roughly viable for a 'mostly friendly' meta. If you just build a small Renegades and Heretics 'backline defense force', the Allies issue shouldn't be too worrisome, as all the actual 'Nid forces will be infiltrating basically on top of the enemy. Some cheap and cheerful Ordnance with a tonne of light assault infantry could mess some people up - especially if their collections are a bit more to the 5th ed. paradigm : P. As numbers of fliers and Superheavies start showing up, the equation will change sharply, though... in which case you're better off just using the R&H rules for the whole force, and investing in bigger guns and fliers of your own. Ho Hum.

Genestealer Cults and Deathwatch make me super-nostalgic, as the former was already legendary when I started collecting in ~'95, and then I have very fond memories of ALL the Index Astartes books from back in the day. Hence, all my Deathwatch have basically 'red period' bolter casings lol - but are generally a bit more in the flavour of the stuff that was happening around the time Inquisitor first came out. Heady days...

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Lord Damocles
15-07-2016, 06:23
All the units, annoyingly, are listed as 'unique' so you can't just take the formation twice for a 1200 point list
Only the characters are unique. So you can take three Combined Arms Detachments is you want (or go Unbound).


I wouldn't expect any possible mini-Codex to include vehicles. It would be surprising if the selection of units was much beyond their current mini-list in White Dwarf/online (possibly with Princelings replaced with larger purestrain broods, and a generic hierarch?).

Dr.Clock
15-07-2016, 16:19
Ohhhhh... nice one. Thanks for the catch, Lord Damocles!

It's still a bit annoying, though, that in taking the unique formation, you are suddenly 'stuck' and can't take any more GCult units without going Unbound.

Many opponents would likely be pretty forgiving, though I suspect... it's worth checking in with people to see what they're okay with in terms of slight rules-bending when it comes to the Unique units... I don't think one more Magos or Primus is gonna wreck the game : P

As to what to expect from the mini-'dex; GW would be fools to limit it too much. It's actually a great opportunity for them to encourage players to buy 'other factions'' things, but most especially Chimeras and Tauroxes. Seeing as we just saw updates for looted wagons for Orks, it would very much surprise me if the new sub-faction codexes didn't each include some kind of vehicle/transport... whether through their own list or 'good enough' allies. Basically throwing Guard up as even 'Desperate Allies' to the GCult would solve this problem almost entirely, but I would still not be too surprised to see an actual GCult vehicle kit to match the rumoured Deathwatch dropship. I know I'd grab at least one of each... but more likely one dropship for the Watch, and two GCult transports filled with converted Hybrids to supplement the existing Cult Formation and Stealers. Hey - a man [hybrid] can dream!

If all else fails, this: http://wargameexclusive.com/shop/imperial-soldiers/imperial-civil-limo-on-antigravs-28mm/

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.