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Herzlos
13-07-2016, 10:09
So I'm toying with playing Warhammer (mass battles in the old world) using 10-15mm mini's from another company, and likely a different ruleset (like HC or KoW). Is that still Warhammer?

Can we discuss things that happen in the world that was, even if there's no relation to the current GW?

Rogue Star
13-07-2016, 10:15
Well that depends... what was Warhammer to you? The rules? The models? The setting?

Also sure, we can still discuss the "World-That-Was".

MLP
13-07-2016, 10:25
It's your game. Do what you like.

Holier Than Thou
13-07-2016, 10:44
I would say it's not still Warhammer if you're not using Warhammer rules, even if it is set in that world. You could call it Kings of Warhammer or Hail Warhammer depending on what rule set you go with? But like MLP said, do whatever you want. It's your hobby, it's your decision.

Niall78
13-07-2016, 11:58
Warhammer is a setting. You can play in its fictional universe with any rule-sets or miniatures.

To put it another way if you play Roman historical armies the setting doesn't change if you change rule-sets. Same applies to Warhammer.

Rogue Star
13-07-2016, 11:59
Like others have said though, after a certain point... it's your game. You want to search other model ranges for new factions, you can do that. You can change the background or timeline as much as you like. Why do you feel the need to limit yourself by what GW does?

zoggin-eck
13-07-2016, 12:34
Can we discuss things that happen in the world that was, even if there's no relation to the current GW?

Of course you can, providing you don't use that awful "world that was" term to describe the proper Warhammer setting :mad: :rolleyes:

Out of interest, what range(s) of models are you using? I reckon I'd use Demonworld from Ral Partha Europe for elves, greenskins, beastmen and dwarfs if I were to switch to 15mm.

Ultimate Life Form
13-07-2016, 15:07
Well, it should be obvious that after a certain point, we have to carry on without GW miniatures. Or what else are Bretonnians and Tomb Kings to do? Though I would clearly prefer the models used to bear a certain resemblance to their legacy.

The rules, however, are what the game is. For example I would find it a strange idea to say 'I want to play chess, but let's use checkers rules instead'. Well, that's not playing chess, it's playing checkers. That's the way I see it. So this idea gets a big no-no from me.

Of course the lore is going nowhere and is also archived to a degree on the internet. Like anything else, it can be discussed. There's still tons of loose ends to tie together. End Times don't seem to have covered even half the things I was expecting. Really a shame that the Greenskins were almost non-present. For example what happened to the idea of the 'last waaagh!!' and so on. In fact this may be the only way to keep the game alive after a fashion.

Voss
13-07-2016, 18:34
So I'm toying with playing Warhammer (mass battles in the old world) using 10-15mm mini's from another company, and likely a different ruleset (like HC or KoW). Is that still Warhammer?
No. It is whatever the other system is.


Can we discuss things that happen in the world that was
Sure? I assume you're quite capable of discussing anything you like.

pox
13-07-2016, 18:56
it's like playing tabletop WoW using pathfinder rules, I see no reason to not divorce the setting from the rules if thats what you want.

MLP
13-07-2016, 19:36
You can play your wargame with whatever ruleset you like, using whatever miniatures you like in whatever setting you like.

Who cares if you call it playing Warhammer, Corehammer, Oldhammer, Meircehammer, Mantichammer, Warpotatoe or anything you like to call it.

Feel free to use your 10-15mm minis from another company and play KoW rules all the while discussing the ins and outs of the Old World.

Niall78
13-07-2016, 19:41
it's like playing tabletop WoW using pathfinder rules, I see no reason to not divorce the setting from the rules if thats what you want.

Settings are never tied down to a rule-set. In fact any decent setting will eventually break free of it's original constraints - be they a TV show, a table-top game rule-set backdrop, a comic or whatever.

Even taking taking the WFB universe. It has already been played in using 8th different editions of 28mm rule-sets, a 6mm rule-set, two naval rules-sets, multiple board game rule-sets - including a sports game rule-set and that's just official rule-sets. Which of these is the real Warhammer setting? All of them of course. Any time a gamer imagines they are engaging with the Warhammer world they are doing so - this is completely independent of any rule-set from any company.

Herzlos
14-07-2016, 06:33
Of course you can, providing you don't use that awful "world that was" term to describe the proper Warhammer setting :mad: :rolleyes:

Out of interest, what range(s) of models are you using? I reckon I'd use Demonworld from Ral Partha Europe for elves, greenskins, beastmen and dwarfs if I were to switch to 15mm.

I've picked up a pack of the Mountain Orcs from Kallistras Hordes & Heroes (https://www.kallistra.co.uk/?page=19) range, which I'm planning on using as Goblins in 15mm. I remember seeing 15mm Knights that'd make perfect Brets at a show but I can't remember the company. I haven't got very far with the project yet.

I havent necessarily decided against using 8th Edition either, but I think at the scale I'm wanting to play it'd just be a bit cumbersome, even if I'm treating a stand of ~4 as a single model.

Ben
14-07-2016, 08:12
Have you not thought of Warmaster? It's a very good system.

Horace35
14-07-2016, 09:04
Warhammer is mainly the setting for me which is why AoS is definitely not Warhammer.

However I fear it is becoming that for more and more people. There has been a noticeable drift back to GW & AoS, I guess some people just need the new shiny things & others only want to be playing the current thing.

Voss
14-07-2016, 17:12
Settings are never tied down to a rule-set.
Well, Earthdawn is a direct contradiction to that idea. Even without it though, I disagree profoundly. Rulesets outline what is and isn't possible, and a setting shaped by a ruleset has to cope with those possibilities, or it turns into a mess. LotR, for example, doesn't cope with D&D rules, where just teleporting the ring into mount doom turns the entire story into a 5 second action. Lots of settings would just fall apart with different conceits and assumption about what is and isn't possible.

captaincortez
14-07-2016, 23:44
"Warhammer" is Warhammer Fantasy Battles. Any pretender is not Warhammer. Also, unless someone rips the books out of your hands...the warhammer olde world still exists and you can still enjoy this awesome rule set and awesome models(most were awesome anyways).


EEFL!
EEFL.freeforums.net

Wishing
15-07-2016, 08:26
If you say "I'm playing warhammer", I would assume that you were talking about one of the rulesets of WHFB that has been released over the years. So I guess to me, warhammer as a game is mainly tied to the rules, but I would also assume that you are setting the game in the old warhammer world. So "warhammer" as a concept to me assumes a combination of a ruleset with a world setting. What miniatures you use is irrelevant.

Once you start diverging though, I would consider your game to be something else, whatever you want to call it. AoS is sufficiently different to me that I (and everyone else I think) call it "AoS", not just "warhammer". If you took warhammer 8th edition rules but used it to play battles set in the Game of Thrones setting, I would also consider it to be something else, and you would have to call it "thronehammer" or something for me to get it. Similarly, if you set your battles in the WHFB setting with warhammer miniatures, but used warmachine rules, that would be something else to me, a "warmahammer" or something.

Herzlos
15-07-2016, 13:22
Have you not thought of Warmaster? It's a very good system.

I get the impression Hail Caesar is very similar, but yeah I might try and track down a copy of the Warmaster rules.

My query was more in terms of what we can discuss in this forum. Does it cover the Warhammer/AoS rules only, or anything that involves the Warhammer World?

In a similar vein, I don't see Warhammer using Hail Caesar as any different to Warhammer using AoS, except that HC is a better fit for the huge regiments.

Vazalaar
15-07-2016, 14:21
I get the impression Hail Caesar is very similar, but yeah I might try and track down a copy of the Warmaster rules.

My query was more in terms of what we can discuss in this forum. Does it cover the Warhammer/AoS rules only, or anything that involves the Warhammer World?

In a similar vein, I don't see Warhammer using Hail Caesar as any different to Warhammer using AoS, except that HC is a better fit for the huge regiments.

What is Warhammer these days? ->Probably the opposite what the internet claims it to be.. .;)

It seems that the forum will be re-organized, but I think that if you want to talk about the Warhammer world, you need to go the background section. If you want to talk about another ruleset that you will use for your "Warhammer battles", you need to go the historical section if you are planning to use a historical ruleset and if you want to use KoW, you need to go to the Mantic section if you want to talk about Warhammer using KoW rules and so on.

To me this part of the forum is about AoS or Warhammer 8th edition or previous editions.

Even 9th Age should not be in this section. Anyway this should have been renamed to Warhammer: Age of Sigmar a long time ago.

Anyway, it is to late now. People that love AoS left this forum long ago and people that love the spiritual successor (9th Age) went to the official 9th Age forum.

Smooth Boy
17-07-2016, 01:23
I'm not really too fussy but if someone said to me 'hey do you want to play Warhammer?' I would think of 1st to 8th edition. This sounds like a spiritual successor that is keeping the feel of the game alive in the same world but just at a smaller scale. On another note I've really warmed to the 15mm scale, great for 6x4 boards.

Icarus81
17-07-2016, 02:17
Warhammer is mainly the setting for me which is why AoS is definitely not Warhammer.

However I fear it is becoming that for more and more people. There has been a noticeable drift back to GW & AoS, I guess some people just need the new shiny things & others only want to be playing the current thing.

It seems you're saying that if people don't like what you like so they must be vapid and shallow? Hrmm.

smaxx
17-07-2016, 04:16
I get the impression Hail Caesar is very similar, but yeah I might try and track down a copy of the Warmaster rules.

In a similar vein, I don't see Warhammer using Hail Caesar as any different to Warhammer using AoS, except that HC is a better fit for the huge regiments.
HC is similar to Warmaster, it's the same designers that have continued to develop the game. HC is very fluent, no-nonsense game, which is all about quick gameplay for large amount of troops. Hc is very good game if You have minis to play not just the front battle line but also the second line and reserves.

I guess You'll have to model the fantasy elements Yourself to HC ?

15mm as a scale is very good for HC, You get enough troops in that scale, and in my personal opinion 15mm is smallest scale that's still fun to paint and play with.

And if playing HC, there's the most interesting world of historical games also possible for You.

Horace35
17-07-2016, 05:14
It seems you're saying that if people don't like what you like so they must be vapid and shallow? Hrmm.

Yes that is exactly what I'm saying... you can get back to pointing out how everyone who doesn't like AoS is just bitter now

Herzlos
17-07-2016, 08:45
HC is similar to Warmaster, it's the same designers that have continued to develop the game. HC is very fluent, no-nonsense game, which is all about quick gameplay for large amount of troops. Hc is very good game if You have minis to play not just the front battle line but also the second line and reserves.

I guess You'll have to model the fantasy elements Yourself to HC ?

15mm as a scale is very good for HC, You get enough troops in that scale, and in my personal opinion 15mm is smallest scale that's still fun to paint and play with.

And if playing HC, there's the most interesting world of historical games also possible for You.

I'm under the impression that there's a Fantasy variant of HC coming out soon, though I don't know much about it.

smaxx
17-07-2016, 09:39
Haven't heard of that. Warlord doesn't have fantasy minis, and I doubt if they'd be heading that direction. Anyway, there seems to be some fanfiction variants, which may be useful.

smaxx
17-07-2016, 09:43
I would really like to have fantasy version of HC though :)

Herzlos
17-07-2016, 16:53
I could be totally conflating Konflict '47 (fantasy Bolt Action) and Dragon Rampant; I was sure there was a fantasy HC coming. There's this: http://adyswargamesden.com/category/shadow-storm/ which is a fantasy variant written by one of the expansion authors, so it might be this.

stroller
17-07-2016, 19:16
So I'm toying with playing Warhammer (mass battles in the old world) using 10-15mm mini's from another company, and likely a different ruleset (like HC or KoW). Is that still Warhammer? Can we discuss things that happen in the world that was, even if there's no relation to the current GW?

You can play what you like, and call it what you like, but if you're using HC or KoW rules, then you're playing HC or KoW, whatever setting it's in. Feel free to disagree. In any case, enjoy!

EagleWarrior
18-07-2016, 10:07
Have you not thought of Warmaster? It's a very good system.

This is what I would do. Up to you though, it's your hobby. :)