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Comrade Penguin
14-07-2016, 18:09
So with the release of the new point system right around the corner many units' points costs are now available. I have checked out a few of them on Scrollbuilder but I am not sure how to interpret them without playing a few games.

Some random observations:
- Undead skeletons and zombies seem to be pretty weak for their points cost. With the nerf to summoning I do not see how they would hold up to equal points of Sigmarines.
- Sigmarines in general seem to make out pretty good with their good to hit/wound stats and armor saves. Liberators seem to be pretty cheap for their stats.
- I am happy with the price on some of my Skaven shooters, but they will definitely evaporate if enemy ranged units target them.

Has any one else gotten a chance to start comparing units and points? Any thoughts?

Spiney Norman
14-07-2016, 18:25
We played one game with the points system so far; 1500pts Khorne chaos vs dark elves. Overall the game felt pretty balanced, there wasn't a great deal left and the end of the game.

malisteen
15-07-2016, 12:54
skeletons get a lot of attacks in large numbers, which lets them leverage the strong buffing spells and abilities available to the faction. I'd never take them in squads less than 30 though, and 40 really feels like a better way to go with them.

Zombies, however, are fantastic, primarily for their ability to cheaply fill obligatory battle line slots with a bunch of 10 man squads that voltron up into a single, functional large squad during the game.

Both also benefit considerably from the death faction trait, especially when enhanced by the Ruler of the Night command ability.

I think they're both ok.

Skeleton chariots, on the other hand, feel a bit overpriced, as do skeleton horsemen and black knights. Nagash, morghasts, and the necrosphinx are all extremely strong, but they feel like their assigned points costs maybe overcompensated slightly. Especially Nagash given the summoning and rule-of-one casting nerfs, but then again if we see an expansion with spell lores for the four alliances that could change quickly.

Necropolis knights, though, wow are they something else. They were strong in Age of Sigmar already, but deathless minions / ruler of the night and a very friendly points cost I think will make them a real terror going forward.

shinros
15-07-2016, 14:14
Skeleton warriors I have a unit of 40 of them most people I face avoid them like a plague two rows of them is like 60 attacks? Plus if a death hero is within 18 of them they get +1 to their hit roll. Hell they tied up godrakk the fist of gork for the whole game.

Ad_Hoc_Games
16-07-2016, 08:46
Skeleton warriors I have a unit of 40 of them most people I face avoid them like a plague two rows of them is like 60 attacks? Plus if a death hero is within 18 of them they get +1 to their hit roll. Hell they tied up godrakk the fist of gork for the whole game.

Not to mention stick a few banners in the unit, and they'll be getting some casualties back at the start of each turn.

inq.serge
16-07-2016, 09:00
I have the feeling that Legacy units are the biggest losers, with most likelihood to be overpriced.

Dosiere
16-07-2016, 13:50
I think the points cost for the "horde" type units like skeletons, state troops, etc... are going to feel a little off due to the unit abilities getting better the larger the unit is but the cost per 10 or whatever is flat. Not a biggie really, at least there is some incentive to bring them versus the 1 model = 1 point that the old system basically was. Whatever flaws the new system has, it's still light years better than what's written in the core rules.

malisteen
16-07-2016, 14:18
I have the feeling that Legacy units are the biggest losers, with most likelihood to be overpriced.

You might have thought that, but at least looking at the death faction that's very much not the case, with a lot of very effective for the points cost stuff coming out of the tomb kings compendium. These points are far from perfect, but they do not at all seem tweaked to try and sell new models or discourage old ones.

Icarus81
16-07-2016, 17:54
You might look at a spawn at 60 points and wonder why anyone would take it over 10 marauders, but there is something to be said for a unit that is bravery 10 versus bravery 5.

Everything has it's place and purpose and on the whole it's well balanced.

40 skeletons (320) are roughly the cost of 15 libs (300). Stick spears to get 3 "ranks" worth of attacks - say 25 models out of 40. They kill 3 libs (6 wounds) or 4-5 if a hero is nearby. Libs are on 32mm and have 1" weapons forcing them to be really wide or lose attacks. If 10 of them (rarely) get to swing (3 with grandblades) then they kill 5 skeletons - that's it - five.

But then libs aren't horde killers. That role is reserved for decimators.

Know your units - skeletons can be powerful if you underestimate them.

veterannoob
16-07-2016, 21:34
I have the feeling that Legacy units are the biggest losers, with most likelihood to be overpriced.

This is 100% the opposite of what's in there. You don't even need to play a few actual games to see that, but I recommend you do. 100% the opposite.

Also skeletons with spears and VH doing 91 attacks twice in a row...not THAT hurt. Skeletons can be brutal.

mashkeyboardgetusername
17-07-2016, 11:52
I think the points cost for the "horde" type units like skeletons, state troops, etc... are going to feel a little off due to the unit abilities getting better the larger the unit is but the cost per 10 or whatever is flat. Not a biggie really, at least there is some incentive to bring them versus the 1 model = 1 point that the old system basically was. Whatever flaws the new system has, it's still light years better than what's written in the core rules.

Although one downside to this system is that, unless you want to lose the bonus when one single model dies, you have to go up to 30 models to reliably get the 20 model bonus. You can't go up to 25 or whatever to give yourself a bit of breathing room while saving some points. (It's one of the reasons I think 20 dryads units are good, because you have to kill 9 before their bonus save goes away.)

'Course, outside tournaments it may be possible to houserule working out individual model points (it's easy enough to work out after all) but that's going to come down to what a person's local scene wants to do.