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View Full Version : Cadia's gone. New IG posterboy regiment?



Cèsar de Quart
14-02-2017, 08:05
Hello all!

As I finished reading the Fall of Cadia, I realised that most Cadian Shock Troops had been wiped out. That can only mean one thing, if we follow GW's enterprise logic: we're getting a new plastic line of Astra Militarum boys different from the Cadian Shock Troops.

GW doesn't kill something they can IP and that's been around for ages (like Cadian regiments), unless they want to replace them with their new big idea. Who can this new poster regiment be?

- Catachan - It's not gonna be them (one-joke regiment really, not very versatile in terms of style), also they already have plastic minis. GW will wanna sell new kits.
- Vostroyans - As much as I'd like, I don't think it's gonna be them either (they still probably earn a lot by selling their metal kits).
- Mordians - Could be, they're one of the favourites outside of the regular plastic lines.
- Tallarn - Not really.
- Valhalla - Interesting but I don't think many people want them to return in full force.
- Attila - Sad but not a chance. No love for mongol rough riders!
- Praetorian Guard - It would be fun, but I don't think so. I loved Captain Caine, though. Not every day do we get an IG regiment that's all a joke around one single movie. Next we'll be getting the Highlanders of Alba with their King Bruce McGibson. Gotta love GW when they pull these little jokes.

Now, the favourites:
- Steel Legion - They are more original than the rest (not a single-period reference or a one-joke regiment).
- Krieg - I'd bet on Krieg, if it wasn't because Forgeworld has made a pretty buck by selling super expensive resin kits of Krieg soldiers. But GW has made plastic cheaper versions of FW stuff before, so...
- A new regiment. It's probably gonna be generic and kind of boring.

My money's on a new regiment, maybe common, maybe more generic. Similar looking to Cadia but more in the bulky armoured style of the Tempestus Scions.

What do you think? It's bound to happen, I think.

Also, maybe they post belongs more in another place in these fora. If so, please excuse me.

Lord Damocles
14-02-2017, 16:57
There's no reason the Cadian models souldn't continue as the mainstay of the Guard range.

Not all Cadians are on Cadia, and not all members of Cadian regiments are even Cadian (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?386896-Cadian-Guard-away-from-Cadia&p=7020041&viewfull=1#post7020041).

Additionally we know any number of regiments which aren't Cadian, but use Cadian pattern equipment (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?304909-Use-of-Cadian-equipment-across-the-Imperium&p=5537479&viewfull=1#post5537479), just like Catachan models are used to represent non-Catachans.

Plus, it isn't unknown for GW to just keep selling models who are dead (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Blood-Angels-Captain-Tycho).

Lost Egg
14-02-2017, 17:57
I could imagine GW releasing some IG who are more 40k looking...maybe they will pull out some old school RT sketches to work from.

I've always liked this guy... (http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2008/11/30/10392-2nd%20Edition,%20Concept,%20Imperial%20Guard,%20Je s%20Goodwin.jpg)

Cèsar de Quart
14-02-2017, 20:27
There's no reason the Cadian models souldn't continue as the mainstay of the Guard range.

Not all Cadians are on Cadia, and not all members of Cadian regiments are even Cadian (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?386896-Cadian-Guard-away-from-Cadia&p=7020041&viewfull=1#post7020041).

Additionally we know any number of regiments which aren't Cadian, but use Cadian pattern equipment (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?304909-Use-of-Cadian-equipment-across-the-Imperium&p=5537479&viewfull=1#post5537479), just like Catachan models are used to represent non-Catachans.

Plus, it isn't unknown for GW to just keep selling models who are dead (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Blood-Angels-Captain-Tycho).


But in Fall of Cadia they say that Creed recalled ALL of the Cadian regiments. Common sense dictates that if 850 million soldiers died during the fall of Cadia, including Creed's own famous regiment, and if GW specifically states that ALL Cadian regiments were recalled... then they mean it's the end of Cadian shock troopers.

I understand that this doesn't have to be the end of the Cadian pattern troopers, but... looking at it from a company perspective, I think it's pretty clear they are wiping Cadians out to leave room for newer-looking GI.

We're not talking of a dead guy mini. This is not Captain Tycho, Macharius or old Eldrad before he was resurrected. This is an entire line of IG models that may be just now seeing redevolpment.

And while we're at it, what about GW doing the Macharius Campaigns? It would be sweet. IG with Makedonian inspiration. Why does everything have to happen in the last hours of the 41st Millennium? We've got 30k, let's have 35k and 38k too!

TheSaylesMan
14-02-2017, 21:33
Issuing a recall and all troops being successfully recalled are two separate things. I'm afraid I can't go over the exact wording at the moment but as far as I could tell we only know that Creed made the order. Not that everybody arrived in time. That is the nature of astropathy and warp travel isn't it? There are Cadians deployed all the way on the other side of the galaxy. I know there were some shenanigans about how the radiance of St. Celestine guided vessels of those thought lost to the Warp and the Phalanx did make impossibly good time to Cadia but those were exceptions to the rule. Fun note, The Regimental Standard has a bit to say about this. I know, I know, the Regimental Standard is not quite in-universe propaganda comedy but its fun! As far as the grunts know, Cadia was blown up as a trap against the cowardly forces of Chaos once it was discovered that the mysterious pylons were in fact xenos in origin, making the entire planet twice-damned and thus not worth holding. It goes on to calm the soldiery by claiming that 90% of Cadia's forces are off-world at any given time and that the lose of homeworld will inspire them to vengeance making the losses acceptable. The Regimental Standard is of dubious cannon though so its unlikely to be worth anything from a lore standpoint.

On a different note, boy do I wish that the Cadians were about to be replaced. I get that they were designed to look more practical than the standard 40k fare but they barely look Imperial at all. They could have been stylized at least a little bit! The style is why I love the Vostroyans so much. I agree with your assessment as to who would be potentially replacing Cadians as the posterboys. Except if the Forge World stuff relaunched as plastics kits is on the table we could maybe see some kind of Solar Auxilla styled force. I disagree that it is going to happen given the way these Gathering Storm models are getting produced. The Ynnari got a huge push but all we see of them is repackaged, mix-matched units out of the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Harlequin lines. If the current model holds, we won't be seeing any new Millitarum. It would be put off until they get around to doing it in 8th edition with the relaunch of the line. That is a long ways away for speculation. Also, all of the rules and models changes have come with story explanations. The only potential reason why there is a sudden influx of a large number of soldiers of a new regiment would be if the High Lords actually decided to raise some regiments from the Solar System. Take advantage of the sheer number of natives and the flood of pilgrims.

Lupe
15-02-2017, 01:56
I'd really, really love the Death Korps to become the baseline models for AM moving forward, simply because they've got that grimdark look and fluff going for them.

However, for all intents and purposes, I don't see the Cadian look being phased out any time soon.
First, their gear, their doctrines and their ethos has been repeatedly stated as being copied by an overwhelming majority of the worlds that raise Astra Militarum regiments. The few examples that *do* shy away from following Cadia's lead are the exceptions where a world's traditions override Cadian influence.
Secondly, they weren't all wiped out. As TheSaylesMan said before me, just because all Cadian regiments were recalled to Cadia does not mean that they all got to Cadia before it was overrun. That means that there will be surviving regiments from Cadia to set the standards. And, in all honesty, following the devastating fall of Cadia, all the suddenly homeless surviving regiments would find themselves in the spotlights anyway. Nothing quite catches public opinion like a story of battered survivors out for revenge, adn Emperor knows the Imperium wouldn't hesitate for a second to ruthlessly exploit that angle for propaganda purposes.
And, last but not least, what's to say Cadia stays fallen? Now, I'll admit I haven't actually had a chance to take even a cursory look at the new lore, so I don't know how it will upset the status quo, and jut how total Cadia's defeat is. So, there are two ways I'm thinking this arc can go: either Abbadon's push is eventually repelled by the time the whole Gathering Storm arc ends, and Cadia is retaken, eventually (in which case Cadians don't disappear), or Cadia really does fall for good, and we have to wait until the next edition (and Astra Militarum codex) push the timeline even further and bring Cadia back into at least contested territory status.

TheSaylesMan
15-02-2017, 02:17
And, last but not least, what's to say Cadia stays fallen? Now, I'll admit I haven't actually had a chance to take even a cursory look at the new lore, so I don't know how it will upset the status quo, and jut how total Cadia's defeat is. So, there are two ways I'm thinking this arc can go: either Abbadon's push is eventually repelled by the time the whole Gathering Storm arc ends, and Cadia is retaken, eventually (in which case Cadians don't disappear), or Cadia really does fall for good, and we have to wait until the next edition (and Astra Militarum codex) push the timeline even further and bring Cadia back into at least contested territory status.

Sorry to say it but the planet has literally been sundered to chunks. The mantle cracked open. The gooey middle spilled out. The pylons are all gone. The debris that is left got swallowed up by the Eye of Terror. Unless the Ordo Chronos comes to the rescue and alters the flow of time, Cadia is irrevocably fallen. There is no longer a means nor motive to take it back at all.

Lupe
15-02-2017, 02:27
Sorry to say it but the planet has literally been sundered to chunks. The mantle cracked open. The gooey middle spilled out. The pylons are all gone. The debris that is left got swallowed up by the Eye of Terror. Unless the Ordo Chronos comes to the rescue and alters the flow of time, Cadia is irrevocably fallen. There is no longer a means nor motive to take it back at all.

Ouch... definitely need to catch up with the fluff then.

Although, a certain part of my brain insists that everything you just described here still wouldn't stop the Imperium from having a go at it, anyway :)) I mean, last I checked, they were still really into lost causes :))

And, you know what - given that this is 40K after all, tectonic-level planetary destruction didn't stop the Dark Angels, for example - despite the absurdity of the situation I just imagined, the planet's leftovers would still make a hell of a training base for the unfortunate bastards who had to garrison it provided it ever does get taken back.

And, yeah, I'm not arguing or engaging in wishful thinking here, I'm just tossing the hypothetical "Wouldn't it be cool if.." coin here

dugaal
15-02-2017, 08:55
At the very least, a reimagined boxset with heavy/special options, better poses, and refined details but keeping the style. The old set is from 2003? It's insulting how they are pushing them so hard with GS cults 14 years later, feels like Malibu Stacy with a new hat


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sotek
15-02-2017, 12:28
I vote savlar chem dogs for the sheer lulz of it

The Black Shield
15-02-2017, 20:51
The squats!

The Black Shield
15-02-2017, 20:56
Sorry I just felt I had to do it. To be honest I'm thinking they will just continue with the Cadians as a basis or a whole new unit based on the Militarum Tempestus. I mean that was what they always were was what they always were when you get down to it a basic generic Guard.

Archibald_TK
17-02-2017, 11:06
There's no reason the Cadian models souldn't continue as the mainstay of the Guard range.
Being able to sell new models that will both look good and also look like they belong in 40k is a pretty good reason to get rid of that relic of the past that is the Cadian range IMO.

Lars Porsenna
17-02-2017, 16:47
I'm always a bit leery about when people say the range should be more "40K" because stuff like that differs from one person to another, and having a variety of look in the ranges helps keep it diverse and appeal to a larger spectrum of players. The Cadia range appeals because it is a bit more "realistic" than the other ranges, and keeps with the WW1/WW2 theme of the IMperial Guard. All of the IG ranges save for Vostroyans were the same in one way or another (Praetorians as late British empire, Mordians as early WW1, Steel Legion as WW2 Fallschirmhaegers, even Krieg as WW1 French/German). While I don't begrudge anyone for liking Vostroyans, and the range is nice, also supporting less crazysauce figures keeps the ranges from becoming too "same-y."

Damon.

Lord Damocles
17-02-2017, 17:28
Being able to sell new models that will both look good and also look like they belong in 40k is a pretty good reason to get rid of that relic of the past that is the Cadian range IMO.
That has nothing to do with whether Cadia has been lost in the background, though.

'We want to sell new stuff' could happen to any model range at any time.

Besides which, I doubt GW think that the plastic Cadians don't look like they belong in the universe they were designed for and have existed in for a decade...

TheSaylesMan
17-02-2017, 19:34
I'm always a bit leery about when people say the range should be more "40K" because stuff like that differs from one person to another, and having a variety of look in the ranges helps keep it diverse and appeal to a larger spectrum of players. The Cadia range appeals because it is a bit more "realistic" than the other ranges, and keeps with the WW1/WW2 theme of the IMperial Guard.

Excuse me but what? Most of the model is taken up by the ridiculous looking body armor. There wasn't any body armor widely worn in either of the world wars! The cloth portions of the models look slightly WW2ish I guess but that may just be the paint job on the official stuff. Its hardly the focus of the model. That ridiculous looking football pad armor and ugly helmet with weird ear notch things is a send up to Aliens if I have ever seen one. Less bare arms and bandannas but the design elements are pretty much spot on.

I know earlier in this thread I called the Millitarum models "more practical" but that preceded a "for the standard 40k fare." Please don't go thinking that those look realistic. The Astra Millitarum range is plagued by relics from 80's pop culture movies. Catachans and Cadians to be specific. The rest are some sort of stereotype of a historical soldier through the lens of American and British media. 40k has really moved away from the hodgepodge of pop culture references aesthetic that it used to have and as such I think that it is far past time that decision is reflected in the miniatures range of that faction. When did the current range of Cadian models get released anyway? Was it beside the '99 or the '03 codex release? Either way, that's old. That's 14-18 years old. There are current players of the game that are probably younger than those designs. 40k has gelled into its own aesthetic. Let the models reflect that. I just hope they don't go overboard with the skulls.

Lars Porsenna
17-02-2017, 21:55
I said theme, not carbon copy.

Damon.

Gen.Steiner
18-02-2017, 15:36
The plastic Cadians were released alongside the 3.5 edition Guard Codex in 2003, just after Eye of Terror and just before 4th Edition. I would love to see a version of the famous Jes Goodwin sketch of troopers in rebreathers and greatcoats walking ankle-deep through ash waste deposit in the shadow of a Hive... but I'm happy with the Cadian range as is to be honest. Not that I've bought any for years!

Cèsar de Quart
18-02-2017, 18:01
I like the Cadian range, and I've painted enough Guardmen not to want to see it go away anytime soon... but then again, I hated the new Imperial State Troops when they came out for WHFB, and now I think they're far superior than their older counterparts. It's a matter of getting used to them, really.

I haven't warmed up to the new Tempestus Scions, though... too bulky and too Medieval to fit into the major aesthetic of Cadian IG. That's why I think GW has new Imperial Guardsmen in store, more in the line of what they did with the Scions. I may not like it at first, but love will bloom eventually.

theJ
18-02-2017, 20:04
hrm...
The core Cadian models are old, out of scale, missing options, of poor quality, and overall fairly often complained about.
Some kind of redesign would make sense.
That said, I would expect the "next gen" guardsmen models to be fairly similiar to the current Cadians, so as to ensure they remain compatible with the rest of the range; especially the vehicle crews, which I doubt GW would want to go through and redo.

Alternatively, we've got 'em already. The new Storm Troopers were pushed pretty heavily when they came out, even receiving their own codex. It could be possible that they're aiming for a more gradual move towards them; current cadians stay, but future kits focus on the stormies and auxiliaries.

Gen.Steiner
19-02-2017, 19:39
The new Stormtroopers are very much more gothic than any previous Imperial Guard figures with the exception of the Vostroyans. I'm not sure they 'fit', but they do match the armour aesthetic of the Bullgryns and Nork Deddog, so it's possible that there are some plastic Guardsmen concepts kicking about somewhere in GW HQ that might get a release eventually. But somehow I doubt it. Perhaps in 8th Edition. We shall see.

On another note, the plastic Stormtroopers look absolutely splendid with Statuesque Miniatures' heads on, and the plastic Cadians (and Catachans) still make for wonderful armies with a bit of effort and thought.

madprophet
18-03-2017, 03:44
While I would like plastic Valhallans - at 7500 pts and 3 reinforced companies (1 infantry, 1 recon, 1 armored, with attached artillery, stormtrooper, abhuman and mechanicus assets + partisans) I don't need any more figures. Besides, I chose Valhallans as my guys in the 90's because they WEREN'T ever the flavor of the month

jamesvalentine
18-03-2017, 10:52
from a personal perspective I'd like Mordians, Valhallans or Steel Legion (so I can do them as Fallshirmjagers)

Fangschrecken
18-03-2017, 18:29
I suspect we will see a new guard boxed set with more options, (maybe upgrade bits for vets and more special weapons) but the look will be almost identical to the current range. The command squad box is fairly new (2014?) so I reckon any new guardsmen will be compatible with that.

I think the justification will be that the surviving cadian regiments we granted numerous worlds and trained the locals in their ways.

Sargeant Slaughter
02-09-2017, 20:35
They could refine the model a bit more, in the same fashion as chaos cultists, but doubt it will be a large move from the current version.

Sureshot05
05-09-2017, 21:42
I can see them moving away from being the poster "guardsmen" but I doubt it will be soon. Rumour has it that guard are coming in November, and I doubt that they will be redoing the entire range then. It would be quite a challenge as they also have to think about the vehicles which all have cadian like crew components (though some have rebreathers). I suspect that GW will do something more eccentric for the next batch of guard, in order to try and further protect their copyrights though I am not convinced that this is the right way forward with every range.

The_Real_Chris
13-09-2017, 15:27
Well Steel legion are mech forces, would GW not want an infantry regiment?

allegedlynerdy
18-09-2017, 14:29
Well Steel legion are mech forces, would GW not want an infantry regiment?

Steel Legion is Mechanized Infantry, and some regiments are more standard infantry, some are all armoured. Most are Mech. Infantry backed up with armoured.

Rhaivaen
19-09-2017, 14:32
So what, Krieg are footsloggers, yet they can still be all mech if you want to buy them transports these days :)
I say they should renew the IG-AM infantry box and get a new poster boy out for us.

+1 for Steel Legion :shifty:

Cèsar de Quart
12-10-2017, 22:10
I suspect that GW will do something more eccentric for the next batch of guard, in order to try and further protect their copyrights though I am not convinced that this is the right way forward with every range.

That's probably what will happen. The whole "historical cultures with some implants and lasguns" approach is not easy to protect legally speaking.

We'll get a less bulky version of the Scions, probably. New AM codex out and no new minis, and Eldars are on the horizon. I imagine we'll get new Ynnari Eldars soon, and the AM will remain.

Cadia stands, after all!