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philbrad2
12-03-2017, 11:57
I usually take such claims with a healthy pinch of sodium chloride. But this one has a photo to back it up, descriptions are from redit and tie in somewhat with the photo

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kBl7tW_8jCA/WMRTmFQKoXI/AAAAAAABNdM/ymAUyMWDPpUfpFvHrHsx7EWNuR7dCTPKgCLcB/s1600/Capture.PNG




There will be new Marines that will be true scale or larger than the usual Marines. They take two heads to a guard of the Astra Militarum. - certainly larger and on a 32mm base, the gait of the legs is much further apart than that of the current plastics on a 32mm base.
They will be equipped with a new type of armor , which would be Mark IX or Mark X. - Armour is mk 8(ish) in configuration, higher gorget, vents on the chest piece, traditional winged deaths head we've seen before. Thigh and foot armour also chunkier than previous marks, shoulder pads look standard (why change when GW/FW have so many variants that could be slotted in later.) The bolter arm is in a traditional 90 degree pose we find currently and pistol arm is is in a similar 160 degree open position as we see on current marines. Head looks like in keeping with the current crop of bareheads for SM's we see GW produce. Backpack to my eye (at the top at least) looks a little chunkier than usual and theres a distinct panel in the top of the backpack moulding which is new. Belt also appears to have some sort of skull relic atached to it too. The right kneepad has a quite Sigmarineesque flare on it.
New armament : longer bolt rifle, resembling an assault rifle. The bolt pistol also changes, it seems to have been fused with an automatic pistol. - not so sure here, standard bolter in overall configuration with longer barrel, doesn't look quite straight to me, bit where the front sling attachment is looks a bit mishapen, box mag could be off a stormbolter, ejection port(s) look different and the bits above it, moving back to a more common rear detail of the bolter, also have a nice strap. Muzzle is also extended and the targeter. There a look of the 'hacked about' combi weapon to me. Bolt pistol is very different to anything we've seen before, cant see an extending mag fitted.
From the blood (genetic seed?) Of Roboute Guilliman , modified by techno-priests. - Aren't these just UM's duh?!?!?! Would the returned Robbie G accept his gene-seed being tampered with ??
They will be faster, agile and stronger than normal Marines. - Of course, superUM's .... just what the galaxy needs :rolleyes:
One of the armor greaves looks like the Stormcast Eternals . - Agreed there's a element of Sigmarine about these. Why is the banner erased?????
On the wrist of the armor they carry a strange device, a data reader or something like that. - Looks very similar to those the DW have on their forearms to me, built in auspex?


So we have the time of ending well and truly with us, is this an expansion and moving forwards of the 40K timeline into M42 - the Imperiums' gone to the dogs, enemies on all sides, Chaos at the gates .... what next? Could possible be a Custodesque version of SM's - times are that bad the orignal Astartes aren't enough, so would this make theses the ultimate, ultimate defenders of humanity - in blue of course .... Still treating this degree of suspicion.

From the photo why get it with a old last chancers IG model with Orcs in background, where might this have come from? Is it a conversion? If so it's very, very well executed no visible cut n glue lines, plastic colour is uniform, to my eye this looks like it might be a starter set type model, i.e not many parts rather than the now traditional multipart SM model. Why is that banner scrubbed out - that's my biggest bugbear here???


Thoughts ladies?

PhilBrad
:angel:

my_name_is_tudor
12-03-2017, 14:02
I believe it. And, for one, welcome our new Megamarine overlords.

Lord Damocles
12-03-2017, 14:42
Of course, it's possible that the model was built to resemble the description...


The proper right arm doesn't look correct to my eye. It could be that it's a conversion based off of a new Marine. There's a thread over on Dakka where people have been tearing each other apart in a frenzy to prove that it's real/fake [delete as appropriate] which has some interesting comparisons with parts from existing kits.

The description of how the picture came to be taken also seems a little sketchy and suspect. The scrubbing out of what is presumably a banner seems very odd.


Also: Is that Savage Orc in the background holding a Rogue Trader era Ork Bolter? Merging of 40K and AoS confirmed!

philbrad2
12-03-2017, 14:53
Not so sure they are a new Sm variant, I think the more I see and hear discussion on this that this could be part of a new SM plastics range.

The current plastic multiparts (even though updated a couple of times) are still those we had back in the 3rd ed release of 40K in 1998. These models are as much a change from the 2nd ed era plastics as the rumoured model is to the current ones.

I've put a (converted) Sigmarine i have (he represents a power armoured =I=) again a current SM and plastic IG and a Deathwatch marines and the photo is very similar in size and proportions to the 'Sigmarines' from AoS. The Deatchwatch plastics from 2016 were also slightly taller than the older plastics, they too have the thigh pad plates and wrist mount auspex type attachments, if you will, the DW models could be a 'missing link' between old plastic and a new range.

GW have gone about as far as they can with the current multiparts plastics, compare the 1998 and 2013 tactical boxes same unit - more expensive (obviously :) ) but at their core still the same. We've had variations on a theme with Sternguard, plastic devvies, Vanguards etc... but where else can the current plastic SM range go for GW?

New edition coming, why not throw in a revamp for the best selling range? Potentially yes you could hack off a lot of players with current SM armies, loyalist and chaos, with a move like this but this is a bold step... would GW the same company that has resurrected a Primarch after years of saying we'd NEVER see a Primarch in a game of 40k release a Robot Gooliman not to mention a Deamon Primarch in the form Magnus. Would they, just might.... restart the SM range with shiney all new, truescale SM plastics, and start selling us all the models we have in our current armies back to us again using the new plastics? GW more than has the design, tooling and production to revise a good chunk of SM plastics to such models in a short space of time. Look at the range of Stormcasts for AoS.

More, I think on this, the more I'm starting to think this photo is the future ...

My biggest question is WHAT IS ON THAT BANNER AND WHY IS IT BLANKED OUT ON A AD-HOC TEASER SHOT??? (or is it? - if there's pay-dirt here I expect GW's Warhammer-Community site to be giving us something very soon, to date they've been quick to react to interwebz links of new stuff.

PhilB

WordBearer
12-03-2017, 19:30
I see this as a modern Space Marines plastic placed next to a fairly old Imperial Guard model. Between normal scale drift and the fact that 32mm bases are a little taller on their own, I think you'll find that this marine is not as much of a size increase as the (very salty) rumor claims.

Vazalaar
12-03-2017, 20:07
From the Warhammer Community site, they posted today this:

You’ll see the first of these big reveals this week, right here on the Warhammer Community site, so keep your eyes peeled, and follow our Warhammer Age of Sigmar (https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/) and Warhammer 40,000 (https://www.facebook.com/Warhammer-40000-1575682476085719/)Facebook pages so we can let you know when the news hits.

Maybe is a upcoming reaction about the leaked pic.

@Word Bearer this is a picture (https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2861/33232760932_a1477f03ed_z.jpg) I found on Dakkadakka, that shows a Blood Angel next to the older mini. That marine is certainly a lot smaller than the one in the leaked picture.

I woudn't mind if that leaked picture is the real deal. I like it.

Anyway I am looking forward to it. Since a year GW is going from strength to strength!

BramGaunt
12-03-2017, 22:54
My biggest question is WHAT IS ON THAT BANNER AND WHY IS IT BLANKED OUT ON A AD-HOC TEASER SHOT??? (or is it? - if there's pay-dirt here I expect GW's Warhammer-Community site to be giving us something very soon, to date they've been quick to react to interwebz links of new stuff.

PhilB

I might be wrong, but I think this is a conversion. I'm not going to despute the fact that a new breed of astartes is heading our way, but the pic feels off. I suspect that it is a regular marine banner (possibly with filed of heraldry), which would definetly give it away as a conversion. But that's just me. It just aswell might be that the banner is not part of the miniature, but would give away the 'culprit' who took it (assuming it is genuine, and should it be, I'm rather sure GW published this themselves.)

I WOULD be tremendously happy if they got rid of the term Space Marine, though.

The Black Shield
12-03-2017, 23:10
If you get a better quality version of this picture you can see little spots of green stuff all over it. One of the most visible exaples in near the barrel of the bolter.

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Lord Damocles
12-03-2017, 23:12
I'm rather sure GW published this themselves
Why would GW be releasing previews of their upcoming releases as terrible image quality potentially fake leaks through third parties rather then, y'know, through any of their own channels which exist for just this purpose?

If it is real, it's not like they're going to have any time to alter anything meaningful about the release at this point.

And if it is GW releasing it, why would they need to conceal the supposed 'culprit' for the leak? (unless it's a banner saying 'GW did 9/11 leaks')

WordBearer
12-03-2017, 23:19
Yeah, I can definitely see the green stuff spots on the bigger pic.

People have been converting truescale marines forever.

BramGaunt
12-03-2017, 23:28
Why would GW be releasing previews of their upcoming releases as terrible image quality potentially fake leaks through third parties rather then, y'know, through any of their own channels which exist for just this purpose?

If it is real, it's not like they're going to have any time to alter anything meaningful about the release at this point.

And if it is GW releasing it, why would they need to conceal the supposed 'culprit' for the leak? (unless it's a banner saying 'GW did 9/11 leaks')

To build up hype.

Did you, by any chance, see the latest installment of the Godzilla movie series? (the US one). While I didn't like it in perticular, it build the giant lizard up quiet well. We all knew what was coming, probably saw him in trailers, but still. There's a difference in just showing people stuff to building up their curiosity. Of course, on the other hand, if you do not deliver on the built up suspense, you're in bigger trouble, as the letdown is correspindingly bigger.

Yes, they could just show a picture (or do a presentation.) And within a couple of days, it would have spread throughout the community.

On the other hand, 'leaking' a 'censored', blurry picture really gets people talking, even befor you release any actual info. Look what Game of Thrones did with the reveal of the season debut date. People watched (and wildly commented on) a melting block of ice. Just handing people anything is, for many of them, just not good enough anymore. They want the sense they saw something secret, something hidden. Look what the censored banner did to poor Philbrad. It makes you think. It is free buildup. You get this in addition to all the detailed analysis of the new miniatures, once they are revealed.

Assuming it is a great release, you can either have:

"What could it be? Is it real? What if it is... That would be cool", which comes with visits to your page, shops, community sites... followed up by "Woah, that's awesome!"

Or just "Woah, that's awesome!"

With minimal effrot you can generate maximum interest in advance. You don't have to make sure that everybody will visit your community page at the given date, now they will look out for new reveals all by themselves. And while they are there, you might even temp them with a visit to the online store...

Publicity is great. Good one, that is. And when it is free, with minimal effort? Awesome!!

Now, of course, if people knew that GW leaked this picture, they'd feel misled. They'd ask the exact same question - why such a crappy picture? But if you create some suspense and mystery around it... well.

I'm not saying I'm right, btw, but campaigns like this aren't exactly new. The human brain, and what interests it, are remarkably easy to fool. Just take lingerie. She/he will be naked anyway, so why bother concealing anything? Why wrap presents for kids? You create a sense of wonder. The list goes on. Why do some people say "I'm bringing home a surprise!"? Why not just say 'I bought strawberry pie!'.

Lord Damocles
12-03-2017, 23:36
But GW literally already teases upcoming releases (without just showing the model(s)).

It's not like the maybe-fake-Guillimarine is doing the rumour rounds any more than one of GW's Rumour Engine teasers would have been, and you have far more chance of drawing people to your online store from your online blog page than you do from 4chan or Reddit or wherever.

grissom2006
12-03-2017, 23:49
Looking at that image to me there is a clear line of green stuff at the base of the chest plate. If this is a leak of something GW plans it looks like some sloppy preplanning and leaking. I can however since we now have had The Gathering Storm story arch play through see the possibility that we see a new 'super hybrid space marine' something along the lines of a new limited elite choice happening but it could be plain wishful thinking of how having a living Primarch about could alter the playing field.

my_name_is_tudor
13-03-2017, 08:31
I can't see any of these patches of green stuff you guys can see...

BramGaunt
13-03-2017, 10:04
But GW literally already teases upcoming releases (without just showing the model(s)).

It's not like the maybe-fake-Guillimarine is doing the rumour rounds any more than one of GW's Rumour Engine teasers would have been, and you have far more chance of drawing people to your online store from your online blog page than you do from 4chan or Reddit or wherever.

Yes, but you don't get the same sense of secrecy. There is a certain appeal to the idea to share in something secret. Again, this doesn't work for everybody. But a great many of us humans either openly or secretly enjoy gossip and the likes. A secret openly shared is by far not as interesting as one that was taken from you.

And befor you ask then why do they do the teasers in the first place: Because they want to appear generous and aware of the fast evolving medium that is the internet.

Just imagine:

You have GW A), that doesn't share anything new until it is up for preorder. Like a couple of years ago.

GW B) who teases you here and there, and when something big leaks (like a few weeks ago with Guilliman), they put out a full-fledged article about it, with a lot of interest already created.

GW C) who, theoretically, shares everything they are up to, months in advance.

B would be my choice. They seem changed from A, but keep a sense of mystery around them.

silverstu
13-03-2017, 10:48
Well there definitely are new marines coming- Hastings said this-

I wouldn't be expecting too much in the way of releases for existing chapters from this point going forwards, not that there won't be 'some', expect the focus to shift onto GW pumping out RGs new armies and weapons of destruction for the upcoming storylines/advances/crusade mk2 ;) (who knows there might even be a new starter box on the not too far horizon ;) )

Without trying to sound like a dick I've known for almost 9 months where this story was going and who revived RG etc. if the rest of what I was told is true (new marines, Mortarion and his plague armies etc.) then there are truly some very exciting times coming for 40k players/hobbyists!


I was told they new marines are different to current marines


a totally new kind of Marine, those created on Mars by Cawl & RG along with the other new machineries of war.

But he also says this image doesn't fit the description he got a year ago [he hasn't seen the new marines though].
I reckon we'll see soon enough as Warhammer Community are doing some reveals this week an definitely next week at Adepticon - hopefully we'll get a taster of things coming up in the next year.

Itsacon
13-03-2017, 11:38
I can't see any of these patches of green stuff you guys can see...

Remember that not all putty is green. Properly mixed ProCreate (http://kraftmark.biz/2017/03/08/procreate-putty/) has virtually the same colour as modern GW plastics, and is functionally identical to Green Stuff.

my_name_is_tudor
13-03-2017, 12:00
So the putty that proves this is a conversion is invisible?

silverstu
13-03-2017, 12:45
So the putty that proves this is a conversion is invisible?
Pretty much..:biggrin:
There is something about the lower legs which makes me think they are sculpted [in procreate]. I'm getting the feeling that it is a conversion- either they've seen that description and modelled towards it, they wrote the description to accompany the kit bash and have release the picture to add to it or the person has seen the new mk of armour and has had a crack at modelling it.

I'm guessing GW official probably see this as muddying the water somewhat as new marines are coming and they want to do a big reveal but this pic doesn't represent the new models. A guy on Dakka has said a contact of his who paints for GW said that he hasn't seen that model but the look is similar to stuff he has seen [the guy saying it has a decent rep].

Really looking forward to these reveals...

Denny
14-03-2017, 21:35
I'm pleased this thread has been so civil. Not that it shouldn't be, but I first read about this on dakkadakka and the thread really escalated quickly.

I think conversion. Blurry blurry conversion.

Plus, if Numarines are coming, I think they would look considerably more ostentatious than that.

silverstu
14-03-2017, 22:36
I'm pleased this thread has been so civil. Not that it shouldn't be, but I first read about this on dakkadakka and the thread really escalated quickly.

I think conversion. Blurry blurry conversion.

Plus, if Numarines are coming, I think they would look considerable more ostentatious than that.

Yeah that Dakka thread turned pretty horrible..
Reading Hastings posts it sounds to me more like more modern armour and weapons, Sad Panda chimed in and said Mk X sounds nice.. It sounds like the creation of new legions. Looking forward to more official reveals from GW.

vlad78
15-03-2017, 16:28
Well there definitely are new marines coming- Hastings said this-






But he also says this image doesn't fit the description he got a year ago [he hasn't seen the new marines though].
I reckon we'll see soon enough as Warhammer Community are doing some reveals this week an definitely next week at Adepticon - hopefully we'll get a taster of things coming up in the next year.

Are you telling me ancient chapters, legions and the like will gradually be left in the dust? i'm 100% for new things if the lore is well written, but giving the bretonnian treatment to previous imperial armies worries me quite a bit.

WordBearer
17-03-2017, 16:32
Are you telling me ancient chapters, legions and the like will gradually be left in the dust? i'm 100% for new things if the lore is well written, but giving the bretonnian treatment to previous imperial armies worries me quite a bit.That's not it at all.

It's just going to be a new mark of armor in circulation.

Denny
17-03-2017, 16:50
Plus, let's be honest, what exactly can be released for the loyalist first founding chapters at this point?

Besides stuff like the mythical plastic Thunderhawk (which would be usable by all new/old chapters anyway)
Blood Angels riding giant bats?
Robed Dark Angel Dreadnoughts?
Wulfen riding Thunderwolves?

I suppose we could have Codex: Salamanders and release a bunch of new scaly space marine kits armed with dragonfire bolters, dragonfists and dragon plate dragon scale armour . . . but do we really want another Marines codex?

philbrad2
17-03-2017, 17:53
I can't see any of these patches of green stuff you guys can see...

I had the image blown up in Photoshop and I cant see any greenstuff traces and the plastic colour is pretty uniform

PhilBrad

theJ
17-03-2017, 20:37
Plus, let's be honest, what exactly can be released for the loyalist first founding chapters at this point?

Besides stuff like the mythical plastic Thunderhawk (which would be usable by all new/old chapters anyway)
Blood Angels riding giant bats?
Robed Dark Angel Dreadnoughts?
Wulfen riding Thunderwolves?

I suppose we could have Codex: Salamanders and release a bunch of new scaly space marine kits armed with dragonfire bolters, dragonfists and dragon plate dragon scale armour . . . but do we really want another Marines codex?

hm... good question....
Ultramarines integrating the Ultramar Auxillia to create a mixed human/superhuman force?
Space Wolves picking the "at odds with the admech" schtick back up and building a bunch of custom low-tech vehicles to replace their generic SM stuff?
Dark Angels going even more secludey with battlefield assassins, monk-esque non-armoured astartes, and questionable dark age tech?
Blood Angels death company devolving yet further, gaining full on daemonic and vampiric traits... and yet also somewhat angelic...?
Black Templars revealing that their "rebellion" against the Codex Astartes doesn't just mean they act different to codex chapters... but that they actually retain pre-codex tactics, organisation, numbers... and weaponry?

I'm just spitballin' 'ere...

*ahem*
back to the rumours... I can definitely see GW coming out with a new "type" of marine, but I'll be witholding my opinions until we've got something more... 'distinct' to discuss about them.
..Except that "truescale" is a terribly idea, and if those rumours pan out, I'm definitely giving them a miss.
The scalecreep has been bad enough already.

silverstu
18-03-2017, 10:36
Well a mystery poster on Nafka has come forward and says that the pic is one of a kit bash, and the the rumour which described it came form seeing that picture. There are new marines, but these aren't them. I know its Nafka but seems probable.

I don't think they are true scale - I think its just a new mark of armour and new equipment - perhaps a new founding. Hastings was at pains to say the established chapters aren't getting squatted and there will be some new models for them but mostly future releases will be about the new forces Gulliman raises for a new crusade. I mean the whole reason GW are doing this shake up is to be able to create new models - the established chapters are more or less done model wise?

The Black Shield
18-03-2017, 20:32
Unless they are absolutely out of this world I just don't see myself getting them.

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BramGaunt
18-03-2017, 21:52
That's not it at all.

It's just going to be a new mark of armor in circulation.

Not according to Hastings, assuming the hastings going around on Lady Atia's blog is the real one. Of which I am not certain he is. According to him it will actually be a new breed of Marines.

vlad78
18-03-2017, 23:25
Plus, let's be honest, what exactly can be released for the loyalist first founding chapters at this point?

Besides stuff like the mythical plastic Thunderhawk (which would be usable by all new/old chapters anyway)
Blood Angels riding giant bats?
Robed Dark Angel Dreadnoughts?
Wulfen riding Thunderwolves?

I suppose we could have Codex: Salamanders and release a bunch of new scaly space marine kits armed with dragonfire bolters, dragonfists and dragon plate dragon scale armour . . . but do we really want another Marines codex?

Much more flexibility, terminator command squad, assault squad command squad, scout command squad (or even scout veterans) for every player who wants them, why restrict them to dark angels, blood angels and space wolves? Every astartes chapter also has a 1st company captain who should be able to have bodyguards with a medic and a banner and maybe a champion, same for the assault company or the 10th company.

More viable weapon options, nowadays, there're grav weapons, some melta weapons and that's it. You will seldom see a SM commander without stormshield. Ok GW put so much options in their boxes it would change much the current situation but making more option useful would help sales imho.
Why restrict as much terminator weapons?

BTW GW economic model should have consisted in producing much better models every 5 or 7 years in order to push old customers to buy the new minis in order to replace the older one. We kept the same SM kit for almost 12 years and the new tactical is not a big improvement, it could be much more dynamic.
Furthermore, if their economic model was cheaper, it would be easier for them to replace the old players with new ones and sell them the brand new minis. Ebay would still work but the new players would buy new gorgeous minis each time their wallet would allow it.

The thunderwolves and the wulfen are terrible imho, why would thunderwolvex accept to have a rider, why not just keep the Leman Russ concept with TW (with a lot more armor) being the companion of SW marines and not a ride. SW concept could change a bit.

Eventually there is plenty of work to do in the marine range. The sky is the limit. And as you say new units can appear specialized against some foes like tyranids war vets. I just hope they won't be too similar to X-men or over the top like SW are.

vlad78
18-03-2017, 23:39
Yet, if they release new marines, I would gladly have a small force taken as allies just like i plan to have a squad or 2 of custodes or sisters of silence gathered to bolster my fists. But they better be goodlooking with good fluff.

But wasn't there a rumour about GW making an announcement this week end?

Denny
19-03-2017, 07:06
Eventually there is plenty of work to do in the marine range. The sky is the limit. And as you say new units can appear specialized against some foes like tyranids war vets. I just hope they won't be too similar to X-men or over the top like SW are.

I don't think you followed my point. It wasn't 'what could you add to the Space Marine range', but 'what could you add to the first founding chapters?' Anything the first founding chapters get which can also be used by everyone else is non-applicable. I.e. new weapons, command squads, etc.

(Plus wouldn't it make sense to balance the existing weapons rather than create new ones because the existing ones are taken? Do tactical squads really need more then four special weapon options?)

And my suggestions were not meant to be good ones :p

vlad78
19-03-2017, 09:06
I don't think you followed my point. It wasn't 'what could you add to the Space Marine range', but 'what could you add to the first founding chapters?' Anything the first founding chapters get which can also be used by everyone else is non-applicable. I.e. new weapons, command squads, etc.

(Plus wouldn't it make sense to balance the existing weapons rather than create new ones because the existing domes are taken? Do tactical squads really need more then four special weapon options?)

And my suggestions were not meant to be good ones :p

I think first founding already having special rules, if you add more options, you also give them more different options when combined to their first founding perks.

No you're right, you don't need to give more than 4 options to tactical but those options aren't really meaningful ATM. Like i said most people just put grav weapons there, a few meltas and that's it. Those options should be reworked to be useful. There shouldn't be a weapon never

Captain Marius
27-03-2017, 18:53
Anyone else reckon the plastic thunderhawk rumour is legit? GW trolled the community in a recent video including a box in the background with plastic thunderhawk scrawled on the side, and at whw forgeworld announced theyve sold the last resin one. Also theres a pic of it on the cover of Inferno... What do we reckon?

The Black Shield
27-03-2017, 20:14
The only thing that is a definite is that the FW Thunderhawk was discontinued because the mold was shot. Whether they are making a new resin or plastic Thunderhawk is a complete unknown.

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Lord Damocles
27-03-2017, 20:29
I could see Forge World switching to a Sokar pattern Thunderhawk with ball turrets to match the Stormbird and Fire Raptor.



...but if there is a plastic Thunderhawk... that means those people who said it was coming c.2000 were right! Prophesy fulfilled! Summer of Fliers™ 2017!

silverstu
27-03-2017, 22:32
FYI Hastings apparently has confirmed it and that it comes with a few options..

edit:


75hastings69 BramGaunt • a day ago
Yes it's coming, as everyone can clearly now see the final resin TH has been sold, the plastic one has quite a few options as I understand it, and should come in around 25-30% of the cost of the resin one.... or at least that's the last I heard. I seem to recall a figure of either £125 or £135...

Buddy Bear
28-03-2017, 04:33
Plus, let's be honest, what exactly can be released for the loyalist first founding chapters at this point?

That assumes Space Marine army organization and gear remains the same. I think they chose to bring back Guilliman first because Ultramarines aren't just the poster boys for Space Marines, but also because he wrote the Codex Astartes, and never intended the thing to be taken as holy writ which must be obeyed at all times. I imagine Guilliman will look at the state of things and start radically altering some of the ways that Space Marines do things. And with Bellisarius Cawl having apparently made new weapons at Guilliman's direction, we may soon have an in-universe reason for Space Marines going to battle with all new weapons and war machines in the near future.

Sureshot05
28-03-2017, 12:11
SPECULATION: I could see GW releasing the plastic thunderhawk for Christmas. Last year we had Magnus and by most anecdotal evidence he sold well. I think that a similar pattern could happen for most xmas's from now on. A big splash release that coincidence with stockings!

Its certainly true that images of a thunderhawk which is differing from the resin has appeared and GW's "in the studio" video has a box labelled "Plastic thunderhawk." Whilst GW do like to joke with the community they have delivered on every thing they have said (after a fashion, Celestine is the plastic sisters of battle). With a summer release of 40k with new rules, a new set of marines to accompany the release, and the plague marine release with Mortarion I think we can see where 40k is going this year. Of course, we could do with seeing a bit more of the Xenos but I don't think that is going to happen this year (I think the Ynnead release was it).

More importantly, I think a plastic thunderhawk would suggest that the new Marines might not be as significantly larger as feared. Otherwise they won't fit in the flyer and it would not make sense to release a new flagship model which your new poster boys cannot use.

Going to be an interesting year.

Voss
28-03-2017, 16:29
From new marines to the old thunderhawk.
Ah, progress.

Binky
03-04-2017, 10:46
The only thing that is a definite is that the FW Thunderhawk was discontinued because the mold was shot. Whether they are making a new resin or plastic Thunderhawk is a complete unknown.

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I see the Thunderhawk Transporter has gone as well, though I imagine that's due to lack of demand rather than the mold being worn out (I bought one a couple of years ago and it was only number 100 and something!)

williamsond
03-04-2017, 14:32
my source (who was spot on about the plastic primarchs and fantasy with round bases), seems to be pretty sure both the plastic thunderhawk and the new marines faction rumours are true (along with a load of stuff about 8th) and we will see them this year. The only thing he's gotten wrong in the past was when the titanicus game would be released he had said it was due this spring but looks like its going to be later this year/ early next year now.

all said and done if we don't see a plastic thunderhawk around the same time as the next edition (summer) I would be very surprised.

barrangas
03-04-2017, 16:10
For the larger Marine, if it isn't just a conversion, it could be possible that it might be for an Inquisitor style game and that the new Marine faction will be the same scale as the old. I would hope this is the case personally.

Buddy Bear
04-04-2017, 07:09
my source (who was spot on about the plastic primarchs and fantasy with round bases), seems to be pretty sure both the plastic thunderhawk and the new marines faction rumours are true (along with a load of stuff about 8th) and we will see them this year. The only thing he's gotten wrong in the past was when the titanicus game would be released he had said it was due this spring but looks like its going to be last this year early next year now.

all said and done if we dont see a plastic thunderhawlk around teh same time as the next edition (summer) i would be very suprised.

What has your source been saying about 8th Edition?

williamsond
04-04-2017, 09:13
What has your source been saying about 8th Edition?

he pretty much confirmed a lot of what's going around the rumour mill:

1, Codexs are done and will be replaced on launch day with war-scroll style release much in the vain that AoS was.
2, Gone are templates, weapons will instead do random numbers of wounds much like flamer do now in overwatch.
3, Vehicle armour values are gone, vehicles will instead get multiple wounds (expect even the most basic tank to have a lot of wounds double figures) heavier weapons will however do multiple wounds too.
4, Weapons will have a armour save modifier much like second edition rather than an ap value, so you have a save and this is reduced depending which weapon you're shot with, rather than getting full save until your ap value is beaten.
5, Early summer release date, I think he said June but it may have been July my memory isn't what it used to be :) .
6, Rules will be simplified but not to the extent of AoS like Aos there will be three ways to play open narrative and matched.
7, Charging from vehicles is back not just assault vehicles, expect to see rhinos full of assault marines as far as the eye can see...

Like I said a lot of this has been confirmed already to be true, so I expect all the other stuff will be true too. He was quite positive about the changes and others I have gained info from who are in the know "so to speak" say that the secret play testing they did with the wider community seems to have been time well spent. I know there's a lot of guys out there now who are sitting on NDAs who know a lot more but for obvious reasons are being very tight lipped.

Anon
04-04-2017, 10:45
3, Vehicle armour values are gone, vehicles will instead get multiple wounds (expect even the most basic tank to have a lot of wounds double figures) heavier weapons will however do multiple wounds too.


Do you know if there still will be different vehicle facings, with different toughness/armor save or will they have a simple profile like monstrous creatures have now? So no difference if you hit the front or the back/side?

Rogue Star
04-04-2017, 10:56
1, Codexs are done and will be replaced on launch day with war-scroll style release much in the vain that AoS was..

Now it will be impressive to see how they've handled that, since the main reason you can get away with it in AoS compared to 40K is weapon options; a unit of Stormcast Eternal Liberators has either shields and hammers or swords, or a pair of hammers/swords with a special weapon (a great big hammer or sword). Likewise, a unit of Judicators has either magic bows or crossbows, and either a lightning arrow bow or lightning cannon for special weapons.

Contrast this to say, a Space Marine Tactical Squad which have combat knives, bolt pistols, bolters, with the squad leader having access to a chainsword, powersword, powerfist, combi-weapon, grav-pistol, plasma pistol, Stormbolter... then the squad's heavy weapon (Missile Launcher, Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Multi-melta, Plasma Cannon, Lascannon) and Special Weapon (Flamer, melta-gun, plasma-gun, grav-gun) and then we get into the options of missile types and grenades... woo. :eek:

BramGaunt
04-04-2017, 11:30
As a little addition: Staffers are not allowed to take a holiday in the week of June 17th. Make of that what you will =)

williamsond
04-04-2017, 12:25
if all the stuff I've been told is true this is going to be the edition of vehicle rush close combat, looks like we'll have to wait until 17 June to see :)

barrangas
04-04-2017, 12:59
Now it will be impressive to see how they've handled that

My guess would be that they will have basic rules for armies akin to 3rd Ed, probably released in pdfs rather than the rule book to save space. This way every army is updated per the rumor but will likely get major overhauls when GW gets around to doing an actual codex. I find it unlikely that GW will change their decades of snail paced releases. To this day, how many armies see an addition go by without getting an updated codex?

If Williamsond source is correct, I'm worried about the Tau. It sounds like their shooting game will take a hit and, from what I'm hearing, GW wants to buff assault armies. Then again, if they just do ASM as they do in SoA, where the ASM directly corresponds to what the old AP value, SM are looking at facing base Str 5 weapons with a 5 up save, which also worries me for heavy armor armies. I would have rather seen the best base weapons get a ASM of 1 and most getting a 0 and having other weapons ASM see similar drops, maybe to the point that the lowest ASM would be 4, so 2 up saves got a chance at surviving a Lascannon or Rail Gun to balance out the hit heavy armor is taking.

silverstu
04-04-2017, 13:26
Well this sounds interesting! Releasing all the armies on updated data slates sounds great -if they do free core rules as well even better! I think 5th was the last edition I played so it would be great to get a feel for the new system pretty quickly. The return of a strong assault phase will be good new for my Nids hopefully, for shooty armies the trick will be to not get caught and they might have special rules to facilitate this better. Redeployment abilities will be important. The other advantage of a scroll/data slate system is that GW can fix/adjust them if it becomes apparent that, for example, the Tau are having a hard time with the initial rule changes.

Lars Porsenna
04-04-2017, 18:08
Assaulting from vehicles should help out Eldar, especially Howling Banshees. I haven't used them for at least a couple editions. Might make me want to dust the old girls off...

Damon.

dugaal
05-04-2017, 10:11
Well any word on keeping invun. Saves? They could be made higher 5,6s, but for units like termis would act as a stopping point for heavy ASMs... So save is still 2-5


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Malagor
05-04-2017, 11:06
I like the charging out of any vehicle if true. Never really liked that you can't charge from a rhino and yet a land raider is just fine.

BigBarryJazz
05-04-2017, 11:08
if all the stuff I've been told is true this is going to be the edition of vehicle rush close combat, looks like we'll have to wait until 17 June to see :)

Rhino rush was stamped out for a good reason. Will be interesting to see how they'll mitigate it this time round.

barrangas
05-04-2017, 12:53
Rhino rush was stamped out for a good reason. Will be interesting to see how they'll mitigate it this time round.

I don't think they will. Chargers strike first now and then there are the rumors of multi wound vehicles and vehicle toughness.

Sureshot05
05-04-2017, 14:53
Strike first (rumour from warhammer community) and charge out of vehicles (rumour above)? Maybe the stand and shoot will get a boost. Otherwise this is going to be very assault heavy (unless they reduce speeds or ban charging out of high speed vehicles). That combo is highly dangerous and was a major issue for 6th Ed warhammer (cavalry charges ruled the game). I think the bigger question I look forward to seeing is whether the edition can address the current balance issues between certain aspects (super heavies, flyers, strength D weapons) whilst maintaining flavourful lists.

williamsond
05-04-2017, 16:37
Well any word on keeping invun. Saves? They could be made higher 5,6s, but for units like termis would act as a stopping point for heavy ASMs... So save is still 2-5


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I heard nothing about that I'm afraid so no idea, I find it hard to believe invul saves will disappear but who knows.

Dwane Diblie
05-04-2017, 20:59
I am kind of of the opinion that the same mods are only going to be either -1 (plasma, krak, assault cannon etc.) or -2 (Melta, Lascannon etc.). And, invulnerable saves will ignore save mods. Hust my gut though.

barrangas
06-04-2017, 03:59
I am kind of of the opinion that the same mods are only going to be either -1 (plasma, krak, assault cannon etc.) or -2 (Melta, Lascannon etc.). And, invulnerable saves will ignore save mods. Hust my gut though.

If Shadow War is an indicator then this is likely not the case. Rather than be AP 5, Bolters will be ASM 2.

Dwane Diblie
06-04-2017, 04:33
Out of all the games of recent that they have releases, which if any have rules even remotely close to 40k or AoS? What makes you think this will be any different? All the rumors to date basicaly describe the AoS ruleset just as much as the old second ed ruleset. :)

williamsond
06-04-2017, 08:38
It's very strange to see all the big 40k sites are running with my rumour list today, even a lot of the other sites like bolter and chain sword etc are talking about it. However with the amount of hate and dismissive comments I've seen I'm glad I'm not being credited as the original source.

dugaal
07-04-2017, 00:54
Movement values and "Rend" or ASMs are two things AOS and 2nd ed share, besides that and a couple other details the two are vastly different.


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williamsond
07-04-2017, 07:43
Do you know if there still will be different vehicle facings, with different toughness/armor save or will they have a simple profile like monstrous creatures have now? So no difference if you hit the front or the back/side?

sorry all I've been told is that AV is gone and replaced with a profile and lots of wounds.

Just in response to a lot of rage I've seen in other places, To clarify I'm not saying army books won't return in some future shape but that the current batch of codex's will be no longer use-able and will be replaced with free stuff on launch day much like its been done in the past with older editions. Army books will return in good time but in more of the vain that current AoS books are released.

silverstu
07-04-2017, 21:54
sorry all I've been told is that AV is gone and replaced with a profile and lots of wounds.

Just in response to a lot of rage I've seen in other places, To clarify I'm not saying army books won't return in some future shape but that the current batch of codex's will be no longer use-able and will be replaced with free stuff on launch day much like its been done in the past with older editions. Army books will return in good time but in more of the vain that current AoS books are released.

Hastings said the same thing about codex's and the way they handle AoS should make it fine transition . I'm quite looking forward to this!

Homeworld
08-04-2017, 14:13
I would not disagree with an AOS style treatment, but I feel a little sorry for the codexes, especially for the ones printed in the last year. I like Traitor Legions for example, and the Gathering Storm trilogy too.

It's a pity they get invalidated in just few months. Nothing new with GW about that, still I don't understand that wasting of some good ideas.

nagash66
08-04-2017, 16:08
Not a fan of where the rumours are leading, but anything that resets the abomination that is formations and the current meta is welcome at this stage.

barrangas
08-04-2017, 23:12
So how about those new marines? I wonder if GW will go all out and use new vehicle designs or, more likely, keep he old. Dreadnaughts would be seem rather rare for them, at the very least to me, as they wouldn't have been around for all that long. As much as I don't like new SM toys, I'd personally like to see them be completely new rather than rehashes of the old.

WordBearer
22-04-2017, 15:31
Seeing as we finally have something that matches this thread's original subject...

...let the debate begin anew. (https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Paint-Hero-Banner.jpg)

Rogue Star
22-04-2017, 15:40
Seeing as we finally have something that matches this thread's original subject...

...let the debate begin anew. (https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Paint-Hero-Banner.jpg)

That's the one I spotted on the new Warhammer 40,000 site. If anyone is questioning if those are new... look at the length of their Bolters.

WordBearer
22-04-2017, 15:56
Can't speak much as to the scale on these guys, but it sure looks like the space marine frog-squat is D-E-A-D dead.

Anon
22-04-2017, 17:02
Can't speak much as to the scale on these guys, but it sure looks like the space marine frog-squat is D-E-A-D dead.

Not only the tacticals, there seem to be new stormmarines (they are hoovering) coming. The scale seem to be huge. I think they could completly replace the curent SM line.

https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Play.jpg

This picture could show the new minatures from the 8ed boxed set. Death Guard vs New Marine....The Death Guard Marine with the bell from the video is clearly visible.

Rogue Star
22-04-2017, 17:50
Can't speak much as to the scale on these guys, but it sure looks like the space marine frog-squat is D-E-A-D dead.

Using the paint pot next to them for a rough idea, they seem Deathwatch sized rather than the rumoured truescale/Stormcast Eternal size. Putting a liberator next to a GW layer paint pot, the base (40mm) is much wider around than the bottom of the pot...

WordBearer
22-04-2017, 17:53
So it's possible it's down to better posture and some subtle proportion changes.

nagash66
22-04-2017, 18:58
So it's possible it's down to better posture and some subtle proportion changes.

Yeah, i would say its just a new gen in the backround, and the models are slightly bigger/better sculpted/new armor mark. Rather then a whole new scale.

The Black Shield
22-04-2017, 19:31
They look like Mk VII with some stylistic changes.

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Lord Damocles
22-04-2017, 19:38
Mk.VIII with a new bolter pattern..?


The sky is falling! Sigmarification confirmed! This is the end of civilisation as we know it!

...ahem...

philbrad2
22-04-2017, 21:32
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e26tLN8TYXw/WPtyaVllKeI/AAAAAAABOsU/AG7WvEQ8agkoR5fy5Nknxq_hvWLjUSi7gCLcB/s1600/z6aNOWb.png

I'll leave this here ....


PhilB
:angel:

Lars Porsenna
22-04-2017, 23:05
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-e26tLN8TYXw/WPtyaVllKeI/AAAAAAABOsU/AG7WvEQ8agkoR5fy5Nknxq_hvWLjUSi7gCLcB/s1600/z6aNOWb.png

I'll leave this here ....


PhilB
:angel:

Starter Box marines?

Damon.

The Black Shield
22-04-2017, 23:09
Some of us might have to eat crow.

MohRokTah
23-04-2017, 06:28
I might have to get back into 40K!

vlad78
23-04-2017, 08:17
Mk.VIII with a new bolter pattern..?


The sky is falling! Sigmarification confirmed! This is the end of civilisation as we know it!

...ahem...


Worse, monopose marines. Not in my lawn. :p

Time will tell if save modifiers will make them die in droves like everybody else.

Inquisitor Engel
23-04-2017, 08:48
Honestly I don't think these are "new-marines" that we were told they were, just a new MK of armour. If they're on 32mm bases, they're not that much larger (http://imgur.com/a/2VTdp) than some of the recent deathwatch minis. (https://i.imgur.com/BBxs9e4.jpg) The backpacks appear nearly identical in size.

They're also shown being painted next to a current Devastator set, which makes me think they're supposed to be compatible with existing SM bits, and therefore they can't be that much bigger. They've been slowly increasing the size of marines for a while (deathwatch and characters) so this isn't incredibly huge.

Rogue Star
23-04-2017, 10:35
Mk.VIII with a new bolter pattern..?


The sky is falling! Sigmarification confirmed! This is the end of civilisation as we know it!

...ahem...

Yes, a new edition is dropping! Burn your miniatures on Youtube! Put all your army books and warzone supplements up on Ebay! Crush your dice and snap your range-sticks! Now is the perfect time to panic! :p

But seriously, I'm not sure what people expected from the "New" Space Marines - their look is oconic, GW were never going to change them into something that didn't immediately look like a Space Marine of some form.


Honestly I don't think these are "new-marines" that we were told they were, just a new MK of armour. If they're on 32mm bases, they're not that much larger (http://imgur.com/a/2VTdp) than some of the recent deathwatch minis. (https://i.imgur.com/BBxs9e4.jpg) The backpacks appear nearly identical in size.

They're also shown being painted next to a current Devastator set, which makes me think they're supposed to be compatible with existing SM bits, and therefore they can't be that much bigger. They've been slowly increasing the size of marines for a while (deathwatch and characters) so this isn't incredibly huge.

Maybe the person who said they'd be Stormcast/Truescale sized exaggerated/got it wrong? But I agree, those look like the relatively new 32mm bases, when compared to the paint pot/fingers, meaning those guys can't be much larger than the new Deathwatch Kill Team set.

silverstu
23-04-2017, 11:47
They do look slightly longer in body and the bare head looks in better proportion, not that I pay too much attention to marines, but they look good- better sculpts of the current design, definitely not earth shatteringly different.

BramGaunt
23-04-2017, 11:55
They do look slightly longer in body and the bare head looks in better proportion, not that I pay too much attention to marines, but they look good- better sculpts of the current design, definitely not earth shatteringly different.

I agree. Simply better proportioned. They remind me a lot of the Space Marines in the "Space Marine" Video game. Keeping the old iconical look intact, but modernizing it at the same time. I think they kept the head and shoulderguard the same size, but elongated legs, arms and torso slightly, which leads to a more aesthetically pleasing look.

As for the scale, I think they are significantly bigger than usual marines, but it's really hard to tell. I tried taking pictures of regular marines on 32mm bases, and depending on the angle, the new ones look 10 - 30% bigger.

Malagor
23-04-2017, 12:01
Seeing as we finally have something that matches this thread's original subject...

...let the debate begin anew. (https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Paint-Hero-Banner.jpg)
Ehmm where on the site do you find this picture ?

BramGaunt
23-04-2017, 12:13
Ehmm where on the site do you find this picture ?

They took it down about an hour after it was spotted.

Malefactum
23-04-2017, 14:29
Here is the image in case GW also removes the URL: http://imgur.com/a/6fTc6

jamesvalentine
23-04-2017, 17:35
I've been reliably informed the new marines are just some form of new starter or new paint set marines. Most likely starter. they just seem to look a little more chunky is all

BramGaunt
23-04-2017, 18:34
I've been reliably informed the new marines are just some form of new starter or new paint set marines. Most likely starter. they just seem to look a little more chunky is all


Reliably informed by whom?

Denny
23-04-2017, 19:04
Reliably informed by whom?

There was a picture somewhere showing what appeared to be a new starter set with marines and Deathguard.

It was super blurry and impossible to make anything really out other than green blobs vs blue blobs, but it would be reasonable to think these marines might be from that set.

Of course reasonable doesn't make it true. :)

EDIT: someone found them earlier in the thread:

https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Play.jpg

BramGaunt
23-04-2017, 19:22
There was a picture somewhere showing what appeared to be a new starter set with marines and Deathguard.

It was super blurry and impossible to make anything really out other than green blobs vs blue blobs, but it would be reasonable to think these marines might be from that set.

Of course reasonable doesn't make it true. :)

EDIT: someone found them earlier in the thread:

https://warhammer40000.gw-hub.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/01/Play.jpg

Oh, since they are monopose I am more then certain that these are starter set miniatures. I don't doubt that part. But the 'nothing else' and 'slightly more chunky' part is where I highly disagree. They look significantly bigger. If you want to check for yourself:

Mount a Marine on a 32mm base, open the pic where the guy is holding the new marine, and then hold your own marine up so that angle and size of the base match that of the marine in the picture. The new one looks easily 20% bigger.

Denny
23-04-2017, 19:56
Oh I got no idea on that. I suck at judging scale.

williamsond
24-04-2017, 08:23
I'm still convinced its this new uber marine that my sources have rumoured, fair enough they were wrong about the plastic thunderhawk but we did get a new thunderhawk although not plastic.

The stuff they said about 8th is starting to be confirmed what with the summer release, the streamlining of rules and the invalidation of codexes so I think this adds a bit weight and legitimacy to the rumours of new marine type.

Hopefully this will go some way to getting people to stop calling me a wish-listing lying troll or other forums next time I share a rumour and it gets picked up and reprinted on the 40k News sites... probably not but we can always hope...

jamesvalentine
24-04-2017, 09:16
Reliably informed by whom?
does it matter?
one thing I've learn't from 22yrs of gaming. Even if the son the Zeus came down from Olympus and told me. Nay carved it into my flesh with lightning from the sky. People would still complain about reliability :p

BramGaunt
24-04-2017, 09:20
I'm still convinced its this new uber marine that my sources have rumoured, fair enough they were wrong about the plastic thunderhawk but we did get a new thunderhawk although not plastic.

The stuff they said about 8th is starting to be confirmed what with the summer release, the streamlining of rules and the invalidation of codexes so I think this adds a bit weight and legitimacy to the rumours of new marine type.

Hopefully this will go some way to getting people to stop calling me a wish-listing lying troll or other forums next time I share a rumour and it gets picked up and reprinted on the 40k News sites... probably not but we can always hope...

Perspective is a very very tricky thing. It's hard to say how big they really are. I tried to determine it like (https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/22d2d4900f72c37a4ec07beed2673b90c18a8e935483ab1cfb fa501d6b5373d3.png) this, but the result looks to different.

And it takes some time to get the masses to trust you. When I got my hands on a copy of WHFB 8th early and postet snippets here, oh boy, did I get a lot of shitake for that. Only two people had the decency to excuse their behaviour afterwards. But the thing is, with the huge amount of fake (and sometimes very well faked) rumours, I see why people are sceptical.

And for what it's worth: I still firmly believe that the new TH is plastic. A new large scale resin kit makes 0 sense. And of late GW is not in the buisness of doing completly stupid things. We should also remember theres a releases precedent for a miniature that they first cast in resin (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ud9761JN_F4/UzzvhzSUHEI/AAAAAAAAgV4/v8RSK--w-DU/s1600/P_20140402_170544.jpg), and then in plastic (https://www.games-workshop.com/en-CA/Void-shield-Generator-2016). AFAIK it is still part of the design process to make resin casts for testing purposes (these casts usually end up in the hands of the eavy metal team.

jamesvalentine
24-04-2017, 09:21
Reliably informed by whom?
does it matter?
one thing I've learn't from 22yrs of gaming. Even if the son the Zeus came down from Olympus and told me. Nay carved it into my flesh with lightning from the sky. People would still complain about reliability :p


The stuff they said about 8th is starting to be confirmed what with the summer release, the streamlining of rules and the invalidation of codexes so I think this adds a bit weight and legitimacy to the rumours of new marine type....
Yeah but GW never kept any of that secret anyway.
so its like being happy you've just discovered gravity.

williamsond
24-04-2017, 09:28
he pretty much confirmed a lot of what's going around the rumour mill:

1, Codexs are done and will be replaced on launch day with war-scroll style release much in the vain that AoS was.
2, Gone are templates, weapons will instead do random numbers of wounds much like flamer do now in overwatch.
3, Vehicle armour values are gone, vehicles will instead get multiple wounds (expect even the most basic tank to have a lot of wounds double figures) heavier weapons will however do multiple wounds too.
4, Weapons will have a armour save modifier much like second edition rather than an ap value, so you have a save and this is reduced depending which weapon you're shot with, rather than getting full save until your ap value is beaten.
5, Early summer release date, I think he said June but it may have been July my memory isn't what it used to be :) .
6, Rules will be simplified but not to the extent of AoS like Aos there will be three ways to play open narrative and matched.
7, Charging from vehicles is back not just assault vehicles, expect to see rhinos full of assault marines as far as the eye can see...

Like I said a lot of this has been confirmed already to be true, so I expect all the other stuff will be true too. He was quite positive about the changes and others I have gained info from who are in the know "so to speak" say that the secret play testing they did with the wider community seems to have been time well spent. I know there's a lot of guys out there now who are sitting on NDAs who know a lot more but for obvious reasons are being very tight lipped.

well jamesvalentine (http://www.warseer.com/forums/member.php?108845-jamesvalentine) that's 3 out of the list I gave hopefully the rest will be vindicated in good time.

Looking at the news sites, it looks like the template thing seems to be confirmed too so that's 4 now not 3.

williamsond
24-04-2017, 09:32
And it takes some time to get the masses to trust you. When I got my hands on a copy of WHFB 8th early and postet snippets here, oh boy, did I get a lot of shitake for that. Only two people had the decency to excuse their behaviour afterwards. But the thing is, with the huge amount of fake (and sometimes very well faked) rumours, I see why people are sceptical.

I too should be used to it by now and I suppose the abuse I got was no worse than when I tried to tell people to expect round bases in the new fantasy...

BramGaunt
24-04-2017, 09:50
does it matter?
one thing I've learn't from 22yrs of gaming. Even if the son the Zeus came down from Olympus and told me. Nay carved it into my flesh with lightning from the sky. People would still complain about reliability :p


The son of Zeus, in this context, would be someone like Harry or Hastings. But if someone with, sorry to be so blunt, no history says things like 'reliably informed' they talked to their local redshirt, and these guys, sadly, know squat. Because, and again, sorry to be so blunt, 'just starter set miniatures that look a little more chunky' sounds exactly like the cock-and-bull stories GW higher ups tell their staff.

So yes, if, possibly, you could hint at where your reliable info comes from, that would make a difference. Keeping the Son of Zeus rhetorik up, you are, currently, more like Brian. Of course, should it prove to be true, thank you very much in advance.

Rogue Star
24-04-2017, 11:58
I think the current image we've got, of the one half Imperial, one half Plague Marine face-plate, is the helmet design of these 'new' Space Marines. From what I think I can see from the images, they don't look 'new' in the sense they've never been seen before, it looks like someone took the best parts of all the previous armour marks and meshed them into one new design. The mouth-plate looks like the Mk4, they've got the collar of the Mk8, looks vaguely like overlapping plates on the back of the legs like the mk3, but I think I can see the rounded ankle-joints of the Deathwatch power armour, etc.

StraightSilver
29-04-2017, 18:11
I think the current image we've got, of the one half Imperial, one half Plague Marine face-plate, is the helmet design of these 'new' Space Marines. From what I think I can see from the images, they don't look 'new' in the sense they've never been seen before, it looks like someone took the best parts of all the previous armour marks and meshed them into one new design. The mouth-plate looks like the Mk4, they've got the collar of the Mk8, looks vaguely like overlapping plates on the back of the legs like the mk3, but I think I can see the rounded ankle-joints of the Deathwatch power armour, etc.

It is the new helmet however it is slightly different to MKIV faceplate. It's kind of a "flatter" faceplate if that makes sense? Kinda think of Boba Fett's helmet compared to a storm trooper, only way I van think to describe it. Also the ear pieces are different - bigger and more pronounced.

Edit: Kinda like the pic below.

http://i354.photobucket.com/albums/r430/MacraggePDF2/5a83bba1f259d2326c80bdc102a31ec9_zps5csfm5i6.jpg (http://s354.photobucket.com/user/MacraggePDF2/media/5a83bba1f259d2326c80bdc102a31ec9_zps5csfm5i6.jpg.h tml)

WordBearer
30-04-2017, 19:09
Well then, it seems we've got the clearest confirmation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_wXCBDiLEA) of what these dudes are.

Rogue Star
30-04-2017, 19:28
Well then, it seems we've got the clearest confirmation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_wXCBDiLEA) of what these dudes are.

Oh look at that, it's not a cheap cash grab or magical Marines from no where, it's clearly using the stores of Terra and Mars to perfect the technique...


Well depending on how they handle it, it could range from terrible to awesome. Remember that as Lord Commander of the Imperium, Guilliman is a High Lord of Terra. Earth/Mars is the repository of the gene-seed tithes, allowing them to control the creation of new Foundings (Chapters can at best, strive to replenish and maintain their numbers). A new founding of Space Marines, re-opening the failed "Project Homo Sapiens Novus" with the mind of a Primarch directing it, could lead to some pretty positive results. We all know Space Marines are not the be all, end all of their genetic potential.

It's like if people where to stop panicking and think about it, things would be clear to see...

CIRO
30-04-2017, 20:08
Glad to see my space marines aren't gonna be replaced, giuven that I haven't bought any lol.

silverstu
30-04-2017, 21:47
Yeah looks good- looks like new marines for all the chapters by the look of it- the Space Marines are reborn probably from their own gene seed. I really don't understand why people don't get why GW are moving things forward- so they can give the factions brand new things for us to buy. I fully expect new eldar, new spawnings of new tyranid creatures, new tech and allies of Tau etc.. bring on the new stuff I have plenty of everything else!

CIRO
30-04-2017, 21:54
Yeah looks good- looks like new marines for all the chapters by the look of it- the Space Marines are reborn probably from their own gene seed. I really don't understand why people don't get why GW are moving things forward- so they can give the factions brand new things for us to buy. I fully expect new eldar, new spawnings of new tyranid creatures, new tech and allies of Tau etc.. bring on the new stuff I have plenty of everything else!
Some of were 15 in 2007, and are still catching up on the stuff we can't afford at the time.

These are extra marines, rather than new marines it seems, thank gawd.

silverstu
30-04-2017, 22:39
Some of were 15 in 2007, and are still catching up on the stuff we can't afford at the time.

These are extra marines, rather than new marines it seems, thank gawd.

I haven't bought everything but its always nice to get brand new things.. I'm hoping, for example, the Hive Fleets breed a new Carnifex sized critter to send against the armies of humanity. It was more a comment looking at some posters on another site that are going nuts about this. I think it is great and necessary for GW to move the story forward- gives us new things to buy and read about and gives them more new stuff to sell. I think they had painted themselves into a corner range wise with everything, i think the "make everything plastic" has started to lose its sales appeal.
But yeah I'm an old timer so I'd like to see lots more new things in the 40k universe.. :D

CIRO
01-05-2017, 06:39
No point throwing the baby out with the bath water, I mean there's sooo much in books that hasn't made it to the table top, we really, really, really, don't need ANOTHER Re-hash of a plastic set, when we could have some thing brand new, like Skirrii, or Genestealer cults (Yep I know these are old), or a fething knight, or stompah, I get upset when you tell me I cant have stuff, I took me this long, to get 2 FW hydras 1 Manticore (To count as a hydra), and a single lighting strike fighter........................................... ....... and I only collect imperials atm. Ebay is great, but not so great when it's 140 for models that are older than me, that I could have had if I'd been more fortunately birthed.

Frankly, I can't wait for GW's copyright to end on some things, simply so I can go buy stuff, that said, if they wanna make em, I'm buying. XD

Dwane Diblie
01-05-2017, 07:23
Gon are the days of the skies being full of Drop Pods? Those skies are full of Thunderhawks.
(Must fight the urge to say it... ;))

silverstu
01-05-2017, 09:42
No point throwing the baby out with the bath water, I mean there's sooo much in books that hasn't made it to the table top, we really, really, really, don't need ANOTHER Re-hash of a plastic set, when we could have some thing brand new, like Skirrii, or Genestealer cults (Yep I know these are old), or a fething knight, or stompah, I get upset when you tell me I cant have stuff, I took me this long, to get 2 FW hydras 1 Manticore (To count as a hydra), and a single lighting strike fighter........................................... ....... and I only collect imperials atm. Ebay is great, but not so great when it's 140 for models that are older than me, that I could have had if I'd been more fortunately birthed.

Frankly, I can't wait for GW's copyright to end on some things, simply so I can go buy stuff, that said, if they wanna make em, I'm buying. XD

Oh I'm definitely not objecting to you getting kits, I appreciate that a lot of the older kits still have appeal -especially the guard stuff. I'm lucky in that the older Tyranid stuff wasn't that great -although I did miss out on the FW terrain [not that I could afford it now!]. For GW maintaining the existing lines probably isn't that profitable- hence the need to bring new stuff [which why AoS happened- which I wasn't wild about]. On the plus side though the Imperium is likely to get new goodies [not just marines] so you may end up getting some new Guard stuff to be excited about [hopefully]. Plus I don't think they will canning lots of things straight away.

nagash66
01-05-2017, 10:20
My only concern is they 1 up the Emperor by making better marines with no other downsides (as every other attempt has failed to do), these Marines 2.1 should have a cost, be it vastly shorter lifespans ( would be a nice departure from the immortal or not debate), increased seperation from humanity ( go full brainwashed robots) or something. If its just marines +1 it will be a big yawn and pass from me.

Rogue Star
01-05-2017, 17:02
My only concern is they 1 up the Emperor by making better marines with no other downsides (as every other attempt has failed to do), these Marines 2.1 should have a cost, be it vastly shorter lifespans ( would be a nice departure from the immortal or not debate), increased seperation from humanity ( go full brainwashed robots) or something. If its just marines +1 it will be a big yawn and pass from me.

Well according to what we know, Guilliman put in the order for Belisarius Cawl to start on gene-seed refinement, more stringent selection, etc BEFORE his "death" - so Cawl has had the better part of ten thousand years and all the gene-seed tithes Space Marine Chapters must send to Mars (25%) along with the resources of the Adeptus Mechanicus domain to get this process perfected and build up the numbers of these new Astartes...

The Emperor of Mankind, by contrast, lost the stolen Primarchs after securing the solar system (750.M30), used leftover genetics of his sons to create implants which could turn ordinary human warriors into supermen with which he could conquer the galaxy and find his missing Primarchs, with their armor churned out by Mar's alone (780.M30)... And the Great Crusade lasted 200 years.

While Roboute and Cawl are no Emperor of Mankind, the time and resources to work with between the two groups is vast as the imperium itself.

Lord Damocles
01-05-2017, 18:09
...used leftover genetics of his sons to create implants which could turn ordinary human warriors into supermen...
Even then he sub-contracted part/all of the work to human scientists, so it's not like the background doesn't already include non-Emperor individuals engineering Marines.

CIRO
01-05-2017, 22:24
They're too smart to can any plastic guard stuff other than changing up sprutes to have new weapons, cannons, etc, a guard army is not a guard army without a full FOC of troops, and they know if dump cadians or clatchans, they'll lose money, cos our armies don't end at 6 squads, to us, that's on troops choice,

Guard won't get anything other than maybe a comissar plastic kit, and a different second plastic sprute in the infantry box with a plazma, sniper, and melta rather than a second chainsword, pistol, second flamer and GL.

Guard don't get new stuff often, it takes us ages to get enough of what there is. XD

I don't really care if they dump metals, they're almost always one-pose, but plastic kits are so so hard to get after they're gone. and it's not like we can buy one and re-cast it, yet...

When it comes to some other stuff, some of the kits are great and i miss them, but what can you do? I hate when they change stuff like the eldar jet bikes, I mean, just why? Okay, chan ge the weapons, but, why the bikes? Why not make something new?

Malefactum
05-05-2017, 06:05
I hate when they change stuff like the eldar jet bikes, I mean, just why? Okay, chan ge the weapons, but, why the bikes? Why not make something new?Because people wanted new bikes for ages and wanted to throw money at GW for getting some. 40k has different versions of different units. I don't think that's a problem, in reality there's not only one mark of motor-bike or tank either. Especially for Tyranids different incarnations make a lot of sense anyway.

CIRO
05-05-2017, 08:28
Oh, I'm sure, i really like the new manticore, as it's close to the epic scale model, however it's just annoying when you can't get shiz. They really need to get it sorted. XD

Emperor ShieldBearer
05-05-2017, 19:24
Hmm looks like my Imperials Fists are getting an upgrade... and my wallet a beating :)

Hellebore
15-05-2017, 05:08
Well according to what we know, Guilliman put in the order for Belisarius Cawl to start on gene-seed refinement, more stringent selection, etc BEFORE his "death" - so Cawl has had the better part of ten thousand years and all the gene-seed tithes Space Marine Chapters must send to Mars (25%) along with the resources of the Adeptus Mechanicus domain to get this process perfected and build up the numbers of these new Astartes...

The Emperor of Mankind, by contrast, lost the stolen Primarchs after securing the solar system (750.M30), used leftover genetics of his sons to create implants which could turn ordinary human warriors into supermen with which he could conquer the galaxy and find his missing Primarchs, with their armor churned out by Mar's alone (780.M30)... And the Great Crusade lasted 200 years.

While Roboute and Cawl are no Emperor of Mankind, the time and resources to work with between the two groups is vast as the imperium itself.

When you're backwards justifying new fluff you can make anything work.

It's just boring if, in this backwards justifying scenario, they simply make the bestest thing eva. It's basically the same schtick they put in front of the grey knights and every new invention.

10 years ago there was no Cawl. In another 10 years there could be a time travelling technopimp that brings 50k tech back in time and becomes Cawl and makes space marines as big as knights, clads them in knight titan armour and that's entirely justifiable too.


When you're inventing history in the future you can do whatever you want and it's axiomatically true.

But from a story perspective, it comes across like Ward's grey knights 'even more pure than the purist grey knights' crap.

BramGaunt
15-05-2017, 08:28
When you're backwards justifying new fluff you can make anything work.

It's just boring if, in this backwards justifying scenario, they simply make the bestest thing eva. It's basically the same schtick they put in front of the grey knights and every new invention.

10 years ago there was no Cawl. In another 10 years there could be a time travelling technopimp that brings 50k tech back in time and becomes Cawl and makes space marines as big as knights, clads them in knight titan armour and that's entirely justifiable too.


When you're inventing history in the future you can do whatever you want and it's axiomatically true.

But from a story perspective, it comes across like Ward's grey knights 'even more pure than the purist grey knights' crap.

I agree, to a point. Stories like this can work, if properly executed. The latest pieces of fluff were, in my opinion, not that well-written. Therefor I am sceptic. I wouldn't put it past GW to produce a piece of high-quality background for the newest Adeptus Astartes, but... eh. Still, with the Imperium having secrets within secrets within secrets, a person like Cawl can exist without drawing to much attention to himself.

Sureshot05
15-05-2017, 15:52
And now we have the video to confirm it all.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/a-new-breed-of-hero-may15gw-homepage-post-1/

WordBearer
15-05-2017, 17:21
The stats (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-gaming-may15gw-homepage-post-4/) on these guys aren't super overwhelming compared to normal marines.

Wolf Lord Balrog
15-05-2017, 17:35
The stats (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/primaris-space-marines-gaming-may15gw-homepage-post-4/) on these guys aren't super overwhelming compared to normal marines.

The way they explain how Strength and Toughness interacts in the 8th Ed, S4 AP-1 makes them a legit threat to light vehicles, especially in rapid fire range, as well as being superior infantry-killers. And 2 Wounds makes them very survivable against anti-infantry fire (though their higher points cost makes using Missile Launchers and Lascannon on them less of a waste).

WordBearer
15-05-2017, 17:40
The way they explain how Strength and Toughness interacts in the 8th Ed, S4 AP-1 makes them a legit threat to light vehicles, especially in rapid fire range, as well as being superior infantry-killers. And 2 Wounds makes them very survivable against anti-infantry fire (though their higher points cost makes using Missile Launchers and Lascannon on them less of a waste).Yeah, but a lot of people were worried about them being unambiguously Marines+1 in all aspects, and that's simply not true. They get some bonuses, but give up some other things. To me they fit a bit more naturally into the marine arsenal as there's reasons not to take them as well.

Voss
15-05-2017, 17:53
I kind of agree, but its mostly because they just can't have special or heavy weapons (because ... No reason) A month ago, before split fire was a default thing, I would have swapped tacticals for these guys in a heartbeat. That -1 AP, sextra wound and attack are actually a big deal. The slightly longer range might matter if double shots is half range or just 12" for rapid fire

But not at the cost of weapons that matter.

blackcherry
15-05-2017, 19:50
If someone wants to now update the origional post, GW now have an Errata up about them. The link is here (https://warhammer40000.com/home/news/?utm_source=GamesWorkshop.com&utm_campaign=cf89552efa-GW+15th+May+MK+X+EU1&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c6e14e39d2-cf89552efa-113217593), but if people want the full text, it's below.

"A whole new type of Space Marines! That might just be the most exciting thing to happen to the Imperium since Roboute Guilliman woke up from his 10,000 year nap and decided to save the galaxy. But what does their arrival mean? How will it affect your collection or army? What modelling options will you have? Read on to find out.

So, what’s a Primaris Space Marine?

These are a brand-new breed of warrior, commissioned by the Primarch Guilliman and developed in secret on Mars for the past 10,000 years by Archmagos Dominus Belisarius Cawl.

Are all my current Space Marine miniatures redundant now?
No way! Primaris Space Marines do not replace regular (if a superhuman killing machine can be described as ‘regular’) Space Marines. These guys have a few extra genetic enhancements, thanks to Belisarius Cawl, and serve as additional reinforcements in the Adeptus Astartes arsenal, not replacements.

Will there be multiple types of Primaris Space Marines?

You bet. So far you’ve seen the Intercessors, the line infantry clad in Mk X armour, but there are plenty more on the way. And likely vehicles too...

Wait, Mk X armour?

Yup, these guys have new armour: combining the best bits of classic Horus Heresy-era plate, with some fancy tech developed more recently.

Can I field a whole army of Primaris Marines?

You totally can. From a background point of view, some Chapters, especially those decimated in the events of the Gathering Storm, now have entire companies of these new warriors. Others have incorporated squads of Primaris Space Marines into existing Battle Companies. And perhaps most excitingly, Guilliman has founded some entirely new Chapters out of these new Space Marines.

I have an <insert favourite Chapter> army. Can I field Primaris Space Marines?

Any of the galaxy’s many hundreds of Codex Chapters can use Primaris Space Marines, along with many of the less Codex-compliant ones like Dark Angels, Blood Angels and Space Wolves.

So, Primaris are just better in the game, right? What’s the point of using older Space Marines?

Marine to Marine, they certainly have some advantages over a Tactical Squad, but it comes at a cost. These guys will cost more points than standard Space Marines, so you’ll have fewer of them, and their weapon options will be different. For maximum tactical punch, you’ll want to bring all your Space Marines to the tabletop.

What if I don’t want to use them?

Well, aside from missing out on some cool new models and tactical options for your army, then that’s totally cool. You certainly don’t have to include Primaris Space Marines in your Space Marines army. Though when you see the Primaris Redemptor Dreadnought, you’ll want to. Primaris Dreadnought? Did I write that…? Nah. Moving on.

Are the kits compatible with existing Space Marine kits?

Good Question. There are certainly elements of the existing Space Marines kits that will be cross-compatible, while the new armour mark means that some parts won’t mix as easily. Shoulder pads and helmets are the same scale, and will still work, whereas the legs, torso and arms are different, and not quite as interchangeable. In terms of the Primaris sets themselves, you’ll have loads of fun kit-bashing them.

Can I use these guys alongside my Astra Militarum army?

Yeah you can. These new Space Marines will be available to use alongside all Imperial armies to fill some battlefield roles your army might normally struggle with.

Do the Primaris Space Marines play nice with the Adeptus Custodes?

They sure do. Many of the Emperor's elite golden guard are accompanying Gulliman and the Primaris Space Marines on the Indomitus Crusade.

But I play Chaos! Where are my super-super-human reinforcements?

First off, that’ll teach you for turning your back on the Emperor. Secondly, did you not see the Death Guard teaser video? The Chaos Gods have not been idle - we guarantee there are some warp-charged hulking warriors on their way for you guys in the not too distant future.

Guilliman be blessed, these guys are rad! When can I get them?

Primaris Space Marines will be available alongside the new edition of Warhammer 40,000. Oh and while we’re on the subject, we’ll be announcing the release date before the end of this month…"

WordBearer
15-05-2017, 20:15
I kind of agree, but its mostly because they just can't have special or heavy weapons (because ... No reason) A month ago, before split fire was a default thing, I would have swapped tacticals for these guys in a heartbeat. That -1 AP, sextra wound and attack are actually a big deal. The slightly longer range might matter if double shots is half range or just 12" for rapid fire

But not at the cost of weapons that matter.If I were to hazard a guess based off of new evidence, the Intercessors don't have special weapons because that's the other variant in the "dual-kit" they come in (https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2001).

Wolf Lord Balrog
15-05-2017, 20:28
If I were to hazard a guess based off of new evidence, the Intercessors don't have special weapons because that's the other variant in the "dual-kit" they come in (https://war-of-sigmar.herokuapp.com/bloggings/2001).
Wow, if you can get them even with just Specials, forget Heavies, then they really are Marines +1.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

WordBearer
15-05-2017, 20:41
I figure they're making them more like Heresy marines, like they mentioned in the articles. So these guys are your support squads, and maybe have to all pick the same support weapon.

Overall, I expect Primaris marines to have much simpler datasheets, compared to the nightmare that's represented by printing every option available to a tac marine. Chances are, each variant of the Primaris guys will only do one thing.

forthegloryofkazadekrund
15-05-2017, 20:42
Theres precident for it in the Horus Hersy books with Corax and the Raptor programme (Deliverance Lost I think)


EDIT
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Raptor_(Raven_Guard)

Lost Egg
15-05-2017, 21:11
I like the minis. The proportions are better too.

I'm not sure on the fluff, its all a bit clumsy and convenient.

It will be interesting to see how GW roll these fellas out.

To be honest I can see old-school marines being replaced, well maybe not be replaced but I doubt they will get new minis and just become sidelined like a lot of the old fantasy minis. GW can cover themselves by saying the old minis still have rules but I expect we will see them less and less. Afterall even the Blood Angels are getting them and they are stuck the other side of the warp-rift.

Rogue Star
15-05-2017, 21:30
When you're backwards justifying new fluff you can make anything work.

To be fair though, that's something GW has always done. That new unit? That's always been there... or we found it just lying around and put it into mass production. That's part and parcel of the 40K setting, in the way you can discover a small Empire (only three hundred plus worlds :p) like the Tau, because it was intended with the questionable communication, warpstorms, infighting of factions and time dilation, that literally anything could be pulled out of no where; an entire expedition of Great Crusade-era Imperials and Astartes could emerge from the warp, to assist, or the Eldar could return to the Croneworlds a find a still functioning example of their Pre-Fall warrior-constructs to get a new unit, etc.

I personally don't mind the idea so much because it always seemed something the Mechanicus would do... before GW produced the Skitarii sets, I always liked the idea of the Red Priests have a unit that was clearly hinting of their own unit of Space Marines, but covered in red robes, Mars-pattern armour but the hints where there, but no proof... just warriors they modified or flesh-bulked, like an, ogryn-sized super-servitor?

Basically if Mars has been getting a 25% tithe of geneseed for testing, from each loyal Chapter of the Imperium for nearly ten thousand years, I'd have expected them to skim off a bit for their personal use... it just turns out they were using it for less selfish reasons, according to GW. :eek:

Edit:


I think the current image we've got, of the one half Imperial, one half Plague Marine face-plate, is the helmet design of these 'new' Space Marines. From what I think I can see from the images, they don't look 'new' in the sense they've never been seen before, it looks like someone took the best parts of all the previous armour marks and meshed them into one new design. The mouth-plate looks like the Mk4, they've got the collar of the Mk8, looks vaguely like overlapping plates on the back of the legs like the mk3, but I think I can see the rounded ankle-joints of the Deathwatch power armour, etc.


The Primaris Space Marine here is an Intercessor wearing Mk X Tacticus armour, a suit that combines the most effective elements of ancestral Horus Heresy patterns of plate with more recent developments in power armour technology.

Vindication. :D

Malagor
15-05-2017, 21:32
In a way, I think it would have been better if they just used these guys to replace the old models.
I'm pretty sure most people will use these models are normal marines to begin with unless they are very expensive and even then, some will.
And the worst part I think depending on how their other units will look, you will have the new models serve as regular marines and whatever units they can actually form at the same time, making the armies look even more dull and a bit confusing.

mdauben
15-05-2017, 21:46
Reading through the news and rumors for 8th edition I really get the impression that GW did learn something from the debacle that was the AoS intro. There seems to be much more excitement and much less talk of rage-quitting for the new 40K

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Malagor
15-05-2017, 22:32
Reading through the news and rumors for 8th edition I really get the impression that GW did learn something from the debacle that was the AoS intro. There seems to be much more excitement and much less talk of rage-quitting for the new 40K

Well that's a given.
AoS destroyed a game and in it's wake there was a ruleset that was completely different.
With 8e tho, 40k was already similar to AoS in many ways so it seems natural.
Of course it does help that GW is open and communicating with fans rather then being silent and when they do speak they aren't proclaiming how bad points in a game are or making fun of their veteran players.

philbrad2
16-05-2017, 08:03
* smug mode engaged *

Spesh Reeeeeens

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/15/a-new-breed-of-hero-may15gw-homepage-post-1/

230148

230147

PhilB
:angel:

nagash66
16-05-2017, 09:46
Trust GW to word Guiliman getting his ass kicked and having to be put in life support as part of the master plan.

Also as for some chapters not liking the new marines, i will be shocked ( in a good way) if any of those are popular/well selling ones.

barrangas
16-05-2017, 12:25
Trust GW to word Guiliman getting his ass kicked and having to be put in life support as part of the master plan.

Also as for some chapters not liking the new marines, i will be shocked ( in a good way) if any of those are popular/well selling ones.

To be fair, the nun marines will be high sellers since you will have sales with new and old players. The old players who don't want them probably already have all the marines they need leaving only the old players just starting SM and new players that know about the background who don't want them. Base SM sales won't really be effected and it's unlikely that a major non-codex chapter like the SW will be written to refuse them, so the likelihood that a chapter not wanting them will likely have very little impact on sales, it will just be based on personal preference.

Rogue Star
16-05-2017, 12:27
Also as for some chapters not liking the new marines, i will be shocked ( in a good way) if any of those are popular/well selling ones.

Well what do you think the Dark Angels will feel like when a bunch of outsiders created from their gene-seed show up at the Rock? Bringing reinforcements from Terra and greetings from the Lord-Commander of the Imperium, brother to their sire, the Lion. They will now integrate them into their Chapter rites and culture, naturally, as the Firstborn of the Primogentors, they have nothing to hide, I'm sure... also the Primarch Guilliman wanted them to ask about his encounter with a peculiar individial he encountered during his pilgrimage to Terra, garbed in the heraldry of the Legion of old and bearing an (in)famous sword...

Yeah, I'm sure the Inner Circle are going to welcome them with open arms... :p

Voss
16-05-2017, 12:33
Eh. I'm more curious what abominations are going to arise, which the article is pretty open about. 'How (altered gene seed) will react with the known genetic quirks and flaws of the more unusual Chapters.'

I assume this means that BA and SW will get special snowflake nu-marines, for even more blood blooding and wolfing about.

nagash66
16-05-2017, 12:52
i think they will make it so they get accepted anyhow, just like they made it that tens of thousands of Marine+1s were ready for immediate deployment Imperium wide. No major chapter will totally deny them, we know this for a fact as GW already said they can be used by all existing marine armies. Background is always secondary to sales.

My only hope is that this FINALLY makes them kill of some existing marine characters and not just introduce yet more on top.

jamesvalentine
16-05-2017, 12:59
I genuinely hope they allow the chaos players to have them in the future. if only for the modelling possibilities and to see the look on Gullimans face as he realises his creations were not perfect at all. and neither were the primarchs. and he has a head in hands moment of "what have a done. what have I unleashed"

philbrad2
16-05-2017, 13:03
I genuinely hope they allow the chaos players to have them in the future. if only for the modelling possibilities and to see the look on Gullimans face as he realises his creations were not perfect at all. and neither were the primarchs. and he has a head in hands moment of "what have a done. what have I unleashed"

spoken like a true Chaos player- love it ;)

PhilB
:angel:

Malagor
16-05-2017, 13:06
Yeah that is curious.
Mean for one, Mars tampering with their gene-seed without them knowing about it isn't gonna go over well especially with chapters like Space Wolves.
But then they made improvements to the gene-seed without curing the flaws which will make Blood Angels happy to hear since what they really wanted was for a cure and they would recover and be fine but nope, screw that. It's like buying new furniture when you are starving.
Then of course we got initiation rites like Space wolves where overcoming the flaw just to be accepted into the blood claws and these guys did not do so.
I just don't see these guys showing up at the gates of the Fang and being accepted with open arms by the rest of the wolfies.
Same with Dark Angels, they are probably the most paranoid chapter there is and unless The Lion wakes up and tells the others that it's alright, I just can't see them accepting these guys.
But GW writing has been abysmal lately so I'm sure they will write that the newbies showed up at the Rock or The Fang and they were greeted with open arms and hugs.

Voss
16-05-2017, 13:18
I think we're actually going to see a small time skip into the next millennium. Too much is happening on a galactic scale for it to be '6 months' later, handwaved for warp travel. Needs a decade or so for that giant scar and so on. And for things like the BA not to be trapped on Baal on the 'so screwed' side of the galaxy. Which doesn't work if they are also getting shipments of nu marines.

And the tau have moved two expansion phases ahead. Even if one was a disaster or future plot hook, it still takes time.

Wolf Lord Balrog
16-05-2017, 13:23
I think we're actually going to see a small time skip into the next millennium. Too much is happening on a galactic scale for it to be '6 months' later, handwaved for warp travel. Needs a decade or so for that giant scar and so on. And for things like the BA not to be trapped on Baal on the 'so screwed' side of the galaxy. Which doesn't work if they are also getting shipments of nu marines.

And the tau have moved two expansion phases ahead. Even if one was a disaster or future plot hook, it still takes time.
I was thinking this as well, though probably more than a decade, at least several, if not a whole century or two.

Gen.Steiner
16-05-2017, 14:59
I think the Dark Angels might accept them, but initiate them into the Secrets? Never!

The Wolves... almost certainly not... but then again, all it takes is one Wolf Lord to be all "HO! THESE warriors drank ME under the table! Blood brothers forever!" and that's that.

As for me, I'm torn between painting them as Ultramarines to go alongside the inevitable purchase of Guillliman, or as something else. Maybe a new unit. Maybe in camouflage!

barrangas
16-05-2017, 15:23
I genuinely hope they allow the chaos players to have them in the future. if only for the modelling possibilities and to see the look on Gullimans face as he realises his creations were not perfect at all. and neither were the primarchs. and he has a head in hands moment of "what have a done. what have I unleashed"

As someone who converted an entire squad of Grey Knight Termies to Chaos, what's stopping you? :D

Voss
16-05-2017, 16:38
Oh. Well, new article on the dark imperium... So, the BA and suçcessors are actually completely cut off, even from the astronomicon, in actual hell, with a hive fleet still approaching, but somehow can still take nu marines.

What?

Wolf Lord Balrog
16-05-2017, 16:54
Oh. Well, new article on the dark imperium... So, the BA and suçcessors are actually completely cut off, even from the astronomicon, in actual hell, with a hive fleet still approaching, but somehow can still take nu marines.

What?
They have mentioned that temporary holes sometimes open up in the warpstorms and they can slip supplies through then. Not much, but enough to justify cut-off chapters having some Nu-Marines.

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MasterCrafted
16-05-2017, 17:58
I was initially thinking i would add the nu marines to my small black templars army, but i'm intrigued by these new chapters.
Hopefully they're more than just a painting scheme

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Lord Damocles
16-05-2017, 18:10
Presumably, because space is three dimensional, it would be possible to fly around the Cicatrix.

Only the Tyranids seem to know that though...

barrangas
16-05-2017, 18:10
I was initially thinking i would add the nu marines to my small black templars army, but i'm intrigued by these new chapters.
Hopefully they're more than just a painting scheme

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Asid from being comprised entirely of new marines, what would they need beyond some fluff? The only SM that get unique rules are some of the original legions. I'm sure you'll be able to field entire nu marine armies of SW,BA, DA, and successors though.

BramGaunt
16-05-2017, 18:14
I genuinely hope they allow the chaos players to have them in the future. if only for the modelling possibilities and to see the look on Gullimans face as he realises his creations were not perfect at all. and neither were the primarchs. and he has a head in hands moment of "what have a done. what have I unleashed"

I actually hope they don't. That doesn't mean that I envy Chaos some new toys, but i'd prefer them to take a little more... chaotic route to the Chaos equivalent to these guys. Like marines beefed up by demonic energy.

BramGaunt
16-05-2017, 18:16
Presumably, because space is three dimensional, it would be possible to fly around the Cicatrix.

Only the Tyranids seem to know that though...

Vessels in 40k, at least most of them, don't travel threedimensional, though, at least not vast distances. They use the warp for that, and regular rules don't apply there. For all we know the Expanse could 'shield' the far side of the Imperium in every direction when it comes to Warp Travel, and going around it by conventional means would literally take centuries.

I know, that's very conveniant. But still.

Denny
16-05-2017, 18:21
I actually hope they don't. That doesn't mean that I envy Chaos some new toys, but i'd prefer them to take a little more... chaotic route to the Chaos equivalent to these guys. Like marines beefed up by demonic energy.

Agreed. It wouldn't be the end of the world or anything, but it would be cool to make these imperial only, at least for now.

WordBearer
16-05-2017, 18:35
Y'know what's bigger and stronger than a normal Chaos Marine?

Gal Vorbak.

knight of ne
16-05-2017, 18:39
They mention that the strongest hold outs are accessible via temporary holes and passages in the rift so it's entirely possible that Baal could of been on tbe receiving end of a desperate supply mission. New marines and supplies included.

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barrangas
16-05-2017, 19:00
Agreed. It wouldn't be the end of the world or anything, but it would be cool to make these imperial only, at least for now.

To be fair, nu marines were a chaos thing that existed in game for Chaos, if you fielded Fabius Bile. They at least have established canon there, unlike a certain smurf :p. Not that'd I'd want chaos to get them mind you. Though I wouldn't mind something new, as long as not bigger cult units only. I prefer Undivided mostly so I don't want them getting left out of new toys.

Denny
16-05-2017, 19:23
GW could just make a decent Chosen kit at a similar scale, add some fluff about 'swollen with dark power' and call it a day.

de Selby
16-05-2017, 20:22
I was really hoping that the new marine design would have the same statline as the old one, so which ones to use would be a purely aesthetic matter. GW has made plenty of money in the last two years just releasing different armour marks after all. I understand that to revise the proportions and keep using the same shoulder pads etc. they had to make them bulkier, but two wounds is a big difference and sv-1 on what will likely be the most common weapon in the game in a few years means no one will be getting the save on their statline very often in 8th. I hope that a great deal of consideration has been given to balancing these and they weren't kept secret from the playtesters.

With the new marines being more elite than the old marines, I'm really wondering what this is going to mean for army building in future. I know GW has suggested a hybrid approach but that seems like a temporary measure. I don't see them releasing any more old-style marines ever (so no plastic techmarines etc.). Within a few years a new marine army is likely going to be made up entirely of all the variants of these new guys, and if they're much more expensive in points it's going to be significantly smaller, which doesn't seem like something GW would want. Otherwise the standard size of other factions' armies is going to have to become larger, which is going to increase the barrier of entry to non-new-marine factions.

Not very keen to see super marines, to be honest. GW has never been great at ensuring their marine variants are just different to, rather than better/worse than, each other. Now they seem to have given up.

Rogue Star
17-05-2017, 11:49
Is it possible the unit leader with the power sword is not in fact a squad sergeant?

A red-helmed 'sergeant' is already shown amongst them, the profile we have on 'Intercessors' doesn't show any option to get a power sword, he's on a much larger base than the rest of them, etc... could he be something like the Primaris Captain?

Wolf Lord Balrog
18-05-2017, 03:17
Is it possible the unit leader with the power sword is not in fact a squad sergeant?

A red-helmed 'sergeant' is already shown amongst them, the profile we have on 'Intercessors' doesn't show any option to get a power sword, he's on a much larger base than the rest of them, etc... could he be something like the Primaris Captain?

I think you are right, after going back and looking through old images of Space Marine helmet markings. The pattern on his helmet is the old marking for a Captain, before most newer Captain models either had no helmet at all, or have a crest instead of stripes painted on the helmet. If so though, that is an extremely plain Captain model.

jamesvalentine
18-05-2017, 11:38
shocked at how much hate, bile, cussing and general stupidity these new models have generated among the..."fanbase"...really is quite headache inducing to keep reading some really stupid people making comments about something they have no clue about. but that's the nature of 40k over the past few years. the "fanbase" want to make sure 40k dies and are angry its continued this far. its strange.
and the whole "marines get everything". that comment I hear allot and its quite shockingly false I don't get why it keeps coming up? but I guess its another level to the stupidity inherent in fans.

but I will get these and enjoy painting them up and converting them up with various parts. I am looking forwards to this advancement.

Denny
18-05-2017, 11:46
If so though, that is an extremely plain Captain model.

True, though that might be interesting. I'd quite like it if the new Marines were far less ostentatious and more of a non nonsense military unit; why would a Captain need anything beyond appropriate markings to single him out?
Having said that, I find it unlikely that GW would go this route in terms of sculpting. Maybe he's some kind of low ranking officer?

Voss
18-05-2017, 12:57
shocked at how much hate, bile, cussing and general stupidity these new models have generated among the..."fanbase"...really is quite headache inducing to keep reading some really stupid people making comments about something they have no clue about. but that's the nature of 40k over the past few years. the "fanbase" want to make sure 40k dies and are angry its continued this far. its strange.
and the whole "marines get everything". that comment I hear allot and its quite shockingly false I don't get why it keeps coming up? but I guess its another level to the stupidity inherent in fans.

I've missed that. I've mostly seen... indifference.
Yours is actually the first post I've seen in a while filled with hate and bile, and directed at people rather than models.

Rogue Star
18-05-2017, 13:37
If so though, that is an extremely plain Captain model.

To be honest, I kinda like it. It's nice to see something not swamped in Imperial regalia, trailing a cape, etc.


shocked at how much hate, bile, cussing and general stupidity these new models have generated among the..."fanbase"...really is quite headache inducing to keep reading some really stupid people making comments about something they have no clue about. but that's the nature of 40k over the past few years. the "fanbase" want to make sure 40k dies and are angry its continued this far. its strange.
and the whole "marines get everything". that comment I hear allot and its quite shockingly false I don't get why it keeps coming up? but I guess its another level to the stupidity inherent in fans.

but I will get these and enjoy painting them up and converting them up with various parts. I am looking forwards to this advancement.

Really? I'm going to complain about complaints, that'll show all those complainers...?

Also...
and the whole "marines get everything". that comment I hear allot and its quite shockingly false I don't get why it keeps coming up?


I'd like to see less emphasis on space marines.

So you acknowledge a focus on Marines... but you don't get why people complain about a focus on Space Marines? :eyebrows:

Hellebore
19-05-2017, 01:29
The primaris are boring.

It is fun to see marine players feeling like they're being left out though. Given just how much attention is lavished on them and how grateful non marine players are told to be for getting any scraps at all.

The hilariousness of them feeling sidelined by models within their OWN FACTION just makes it all the more delicious :p

Spell_of_Destruction
19-05-2017, 02:44
True, though that might be interesting. I'd quite like it if the new Marines were far less ostentatious and more of a non nonsense military unit; why would a Captain need anything beyond appropriate markings to single him out?

Yep, maybe I'm just set in my ways but I far prefer the more minimalist aesthetic for marines (and in general). The adornments that you see on old Space Wolf and Deathwing metals are fine but I'm really not a fan of sacraments plastered all over armour, cherubs protruding out of shoulder pads holding scrolls, wings, ridiculously ornate armour etc. It's probably why Eldar have sustained my interest for so long as the line has remained simple and clean and they have avoided the worst excesses of overly elaborate and detailed design (Although the Avatar of Ynnead is heading in that direction. I fully expect the next Avatar of Khaine model to be doing a handstand while balancing on a swirling pillar of molten lava).

WordBearer
19-05-2017, 05:19
I'm just gonna go out on a limb and say that when you're on a crusade to reclaim mankind's star empire, you don't have time to weld bling to your armor.

They've got a clean look, like a fair number of Heresy marines and like all the marines started during the Great Crusade.

Lost Egg
19-05-2017, 10:35
I'm digging the cleaner look as I've felt the newer models over the last few years have slipped from characterful to caricature.

Given that regular marines can be upgraded to primaris marines I wonder how things are going to pan out. It gives GW a chance to overhaul the entire aesthetic of the range. Also, as most chapters will be having primaris marines will they just rely on players to kitbash them or will they do chapter specific conversion packs? I like the idea of kitbashing some new primaris Space Wolves.

Also, if regular marines can be upgraded does that mean they will then have to follow the primaris squad organisation or can you have primaris tactical squads? Maybe RG will just say follow the new Codex Mrines or no new shiny toys...

Gen.Steiner
19-05-2017, 11:39
I think the new Primaris Marines will look good in camouflage... :D

Rogue Star
19-05-2017, 12:06
Given that regular marines can be upgraded to primaris marines I wonder how things are going to pan out. It gives GW a chance to overhaul the entire aesthetic of the range. Also, as most chapters will be having primaris marines will they just rely on players to kitbash them or will they do chapter specific conversion packs? I like the idea of kitbashing some new primaris Space Wolves.

Also, if regular marines can be upgraded does that mean they will then have to follow the primaris squad organisation or can you have primaris tactical squads? Maybe RG will just say follow the new Codex Mrines or no new shiny toys...

They're two separate lists with interchangeable nature, I imagine. Like Stormcast Eternals where with the Extremis Chamber. You can make a force of Space Marines' without any of the new Primaris stuff, or a mix, or a force entirely dedicated to them, because of the keywords system.


I think the new Primaris Marines will look good in camouflage... :D

"Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to steal upon my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Primarch, the Imperial Fist, Emperor's Champion. Let my enemies cower at the sight of me and tremble at my approach."
"Camouflage is the color of fear… I have no need to hide from my foes… I have no fear of death. My colors i wear openly, they proclaim louder than any words, ’ I am proud to live- I am proud to die."

But I wanna see them when you're done. :D

Gen.Steiner
19-05-2017, 12:44
"Do not ask me to approach the battle meekly, to steal upon my foes in the dark. I am Rogal Dorn, Primarch, the Imperial Fist, Emperor's Champion. Let my enemies cower at the sight of me and tremble at my approach."
"Camouflage is the color of fear… I have no need to hide from my foes… I have no fear of death. My colors i wear openly, they proclaim louder than any words, ’ I am proud to live- I am proud to die."

But I wanna see them when you're done. :D

Just think of it! Low-visibility grey markings! Camouflaged armour and weapons! Cam-cloaks! Mwahahahahaaa!!

Banville
19-05-2017, 16:13
shocked at how much hate, bile, cussing and general stupidity these new models have generated among the..."fanbase"...really is quite headache inducing to keep reading some really stupid people making comments about something they have no clue about. but that's the nature of 40k over the past few years. the "fanbase" want to make sure 40k dies and are angry its continued this far. its strange.
and the whole "marines get everything". that comment I hear allot and its quite shockingly false I don't get why it keeps coming up? but I guess its another level to the stupidity inherent in fans.

but I will get these and enjoy painting them up and converting them up with various parts. I am looking forwards to this advancement.

Wow. Have a snickers, dude.

Voss
19-05-2017, 17:28
Just think of it! Low-visibility grey markings! Camouflaged armour and weapons! Cam-cloaks! Mwahahahahaaa!!

Camo patterns do exist for some Chapters. They're even Codex approved if you go back far enough. The red Compendium (so, originally publish in WD) back for Rogue Trader had several alternate colour schemes for chapters, including desert camo and the like.

Gen.Steiner
19-05-2017, 17:49
Camo patterns do exist for some Chapters. They're even Codex approved if you go back far enough. The red Compendium (so, originally publish in WD) back for Rogue Trader had several alternate colour schemes for chapters, including desert camo and the like.

Yeah! I know! Some of them are really cool! :D The Badab War stuff has lots of camo schemes - including for the Space Sharks, for example.

Rogue Star
20-05-2017, 02:27
So... interesting fact from Pete Foley from the GW Design Studio... 'regular' Astartes can be upgraded to these Primaris pattern. I guess that means we'll see Captain Sicarius (last seen accompanying Guilliman) become one? Interesting because that means rather than an entirely new technique, Primaris Space Marines are Astartes further along the lines... if a Space Marine is 50%, then these guys are like 60-70% more 'developed' from how it was described.

Lost Egg
20-05-2017, 06:54
Did anyone anyone else spot that Pete was asked if any more primarchs are coming and he said... "keep an eye out for a cowled primarch" so I assume the Lion is gunna pop up soon. There was that rumour pic of a lion hide too.

MasterCrafted
20-05-2017, 07:57
Mortarion has a hood though doesnt he?

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Lost Egg
21-05-2017, 07:53
Ahh yes, I forgot about Morty. It would make sense to alternate between loyal & traitor.

It occurred that with the new marines it gives GW the option to reinvent the range both in terms of the visuals and the options. Also, we may well see more chapters folded into fewer codexes.

The look and scale of the new marines will also differentiate them from the Heresy range, which has long been rumoured to become the 3rd big product line for GW.

MasterCrafted
21-05-2017, 17:03
Agreed, i'm looking forward to seeing what else they're gonna do along with primaris marines. New rhino chassis? New landspeeders? Maybe a grav tank?? We know theres gonna be a new dread

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Denny
21-05-2017, 17:35
It would be nice for them to have a different transport rather than a rhino +1.

Not sure how you'd differentiate it though. Tougher? Faster? Better armed? All three?

Rogue Star
21-05-2017, 17:52
It would be nice for them to have a different transport rather than a rhino +1.

Not sure how you'd differentiate it though. Tougher? Faster? Better armed? All three?

... Grav-Rhino? :p

Voss
21-05-2017, 19:25
STC template recovered: Land Rhino.

Which reminds me: what is the stormbolter like in 8th? The combi bolter (twin linked bolter) is obviously better at 4 shots at half and 2 shots at full. If the stormbolter is just the same old 2 shot gun, its going to be rubbish by comparison.

The Black Shield
21-05-2017, 20:20
A transport based on the Sicaran chassis?

BramGaunt
21-05-2017, 21:07
STC template recovered: Land Rhino.

Which reminds me: what is the stormbolter like in 8th? The combi bolter (twin linked bolter) is obviously better at 4 shots at half and 2 shots at full. If the stormbolter is just the same old 2 shot gun, its going to be rubbish by comparison.

Maybe AP1? Or assault 3? Or the advantage of being allowed to charge after firing it? Maybe assault weapons have a different advantage we dont know about yet.

Gen.Steiner
22-05-2017, 12:01
Maybe the Land Raider will become their standard transport :P

Storm Bolters - I imagine that they'll be functionally identical to combi-bolters...

Denny
22-05-2017, 12:10
... Grav-Rhino? :p

Maybe some elaborate hood ornamentation. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaOgZwk9rN8)

Denny
23-05-2017, 09:48
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/23/warhammer-40000-launch-date-announced-may22gw-homepage-post-1/

Pics of the new starter set marines.

nagash66
23-05-2017, 09:50
They can keep their new marines, especially those 'assault' abominations. Book looks solid, will pick one up.

Denny
23-05-2017, 09:52
They can keep their new marines, especially those 'assault' abominations.

Yeah, those don't look great to me. I like the jump packs, but not the ski-shoes.

Rogue Star
23-05-2017, 10:02
Also, while we’re on the subject of rules, we’ve some great news – the core rules for Warhammer 40,000 will be available for free! You’ll be able to download the Battle Primer PDF on games-workshop.com and warhammer40000.com from June 17th.

Current players will probably still want to pick up either the full Warhammer 40,000 book or the Dark Imperium box set though, as this gets you the Advanced Rules sections, loads more missions, as well as stratagems for open, narrative and matched play and of course, over 100 pages of new lore and background on the shape of the galaxy in the new Warhammer 40,000.

Nice. :D

Words for the Word God.

Gen.Steiner
23-05-2017, 10:47
The Captain in Gravis armour looks like they're wearing the latest form of Terminator armour.

dugaal
23-05-2017, 11:12
Really not interested in anything from that box aside from the book and the Lord of Contagion.

Its fascinating how dark vengeance->AOS starter -> 8th 40k starter have such a close mapping of forces included (though now escalating, waiting for the price)
Chaos: 20 rabble, 5-7 Elite troops, beast creature, priest, icon bearer and Lord
Order/SM: 10 standard troops, 3-5 special armed troops, 3 Fast/flying troops, Icon bearer, HQ Captain (new set has 2 additional Lieutenants instead of one HQ riding a dragon)

nagash66
23-05-2017, 11:13
Yeah, those don't look great to me. I like the jump packs, but not the ski-shoes.

I find the entire idea of Marines+1 to be pointless, Astartes were suppose to be the elite edge of the blade, now we have these, where does it end? Will we have new new marines in a couple of years with even bigger guns? The fact that they also brought back a primarch to lead them kinda kills the doom and gloom feel that i so love about the imperium.

Focussing on the box for a moment tho, it is labelled the Dark Imperium, but the background article stated that the Ultras were on the other side of the warp storm wall from the dark Imperium. Crusading with their primarch, seems kinda weird to name the box after a area where we can expect to not see Ultras only to have Ultras be in the box.

Rogue Star
23-05-2017, 11:48
Really not interested in anything from that box aside from the book and the Lord of Contagion.

Its fascinating how dark vengeance->AOS starter -> 8th 40k starter have such a close mapping of forces included (though now escalating, waiting for the price)
Chaos: 20 rabble, 5-7 Elite troops, beast creature, priest, icon bearer and Lord
Order/SM: 10 standard troops, 3-5 special armed troops, 3 Fast/flying troops, Icon bearer, HQ Captain (new set has 2 additional Lieutenants instead of one HQ riding a dragon)

Indeed, it's a three man Command Squad instead of a monster-mounted hero on the good guys side, and for the bad guys... seems a bit more complex conversion, but they seem to get the Noxious Blightbringer and Malignant Plaguecaster instead of an extra ten Bloodreavers (seems it's 10 Poxwalkers instead of 20 anyway).

dugaal
23-05-2017, 11:51
Naw, its 20, but prolly the same set duplicated, check out the top pic with all the box contents laid out


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Rogue Star
23-05-2017, 12:07
Naw, its 20, but prolly the same set duplicated, check out the top pic with all the box contents laid out

Ah! If so that's a much better deal, as it's five Hellblasters instead of three Retributors, three characters instead of a monster-mounted hero and extra two characters for the Chaos side. And that's not even factoring in the big rulebook...

barrangas
23-05-2017, 13:46
So Primaris have ancients :eyebrows:? I realize that it could be an upgraded base marine that's been around a while but I still find it amusing.

Denny
23-05-2017, 13:49
So Primaris have ancients :eyebrows:? I realize that it could be an upgraded base marine that's been around a while but I still find it amusing.

Maybe Belisarius Cawl only took a couple of hundred years to create the first batch of new marines, and then had to wait 9K years for Robbie Smurf to wake up and sign off on the new model.
The 'Ancients' are the first batch who were waiting around all this time.

As someone who works in University administration and relies on the Dean's signature for virtually everything I find the above scenario quite plausible.

EDIT: A more sensible answer might be the 'Ancients' are normal Space Marines who have been upgrade and are revered for their experience..

williamsond
23-05-2017, 14:05
those assault ones look terrible... it's a worse reaction than the first time I saw the centurions kit.

Wolf Lord Balrog
23-05-2017, 14:09
Crosspost to correct thread:

So there really is going to be an entire range of Space Marines+1, not just with better statlines, but with better equipment too. Who isn't going to want a couple squads of those Hellblasters in their army? I find this as concerning as it is exciting.

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barrangas
23-05-2017, 14:16
Maybe Belisarius Cawl only took a couple of hundred years to create the first batch of new marines, and then had to wait 9K years for Robbie Smurf to wake up and sign off on the new model.
The 'Ancients' are the first batch who were waiting around all this time.

As some who works in University administration and relies on nthe Dean's signature for virtually everything I find the above scenario quite plausible.

EDIT: A more sensible answer might be the 'Ancients' are normal Space Marines who have been upgrade and are revered for their experience..

I had already mentioned the possibility of the upgrade as a possible explanation, I just find the name a funny choice for their numarines.

Bob Hunk
23-05-2017, 14:24
I had already mentioned the possibility of the upgrade as a possible explanation, I just find the name a funny choice for their numarines.

'Ancient' is an honorary title given to a Space Marine company banner bearer. :o The banner bearer doesn't actually need to be old or even a veteran to receive the title, they just have to have proved themselves worthy of the honour. :o

Rogue Star
23-05-2017, 14:24
So Primaris have ancients :eyebrows:?

He's carrying a banner, why wouldn't he be called an Ancient?

Edit: Ninja'd by Bob Hunk.


It was the duty of officers of this rank to carry the colours of the regiment. In the 16th century, "ensign" was corrupted into "ancient", and was used in the two senses of a banner and the bearer of the banner.

Has nothing to do with age or experience. 'Ancient' literally means in military terminology, 'mark, symbol, signal; flag, standard, pennant' bearer.

jamesvalentine
23-05-2017, 14:28
oh yes. I am loving the look of these. loving the standard bearer and Lieutenant especially. and the shielded pistols/carbines look funky as hell.
GW really have rekindled my interest after 11yrs of utter garbage for 40k.
I don't give a damn what all the whiners and doom sayers keep going on about and shoving in your face like the obnoxious T***S that they are.
40k has FINALLY been reborn.

and those plague marines are stunningly good models.
that lord of contagion....WOW!
and the Plague Guard?...stunning.

now what chapters do I really wanna do and paint all these in...

Rogue Star
23-05-2017, 14:30
now what chapters do I really wanna do and paint all these in...

Scythes of the Emperor. The only sensible choice.

jamesvalentine
23-05-2017, 14:34
Scythes of the Emperor. The only sensible choice.
I was thinking Mentors. they have a background of testing new stuff.
be fun to do relictors. but being excommunicate might be hard to justify (ignoring the latest "oh were sorry mr inquisition, we promise to be good boys from now on")
exorcists...possessing Primaris marines with daemons...ooooh

Rogue Star
23-05-2017, 14:40
I was thinking Mentors. they have a background of testing new stuff.

Another solid choice. The Astral Knights are another good Chapter to revive now along the lines of the Primaris.

Bob Hunk
23-05-2017, 14:43
Scythes of the Emperor. The only sensible choice.


I was thinking Mentors. they have a background of testing new stuff.
be fun to do relictors. but being excommunicate might be hard to justify (ignoring the latest "oh were sorry mr inquisition, we promise to be good boys from now on")
exorcists...possessing Primaris marines with daemons...ooooh

I think I'm going to go Crimson Fists. :o Loving the new Primaris Marines, apart from the jump troops, which I'm still a little iffy on, although I'm sure they'll grow on me. ;)

jamesvalentine
23-05-2017, 14:51
so many choices. I see this being priced a little higher mind as the quantity and quality is the highest I have personally seen. and a full hardback book as well.
but two starters would keep me so damned happy haha.
hmmm I get paid Monday 29th...can I wait that long :p

Denny
23-05-2017, 14:57
I'm interested to see if any new chapters appear in the fluff; I was wondering if GW would take this chance to establish some new poster boys, but it appears they are going with the Ultras still.
(Which makes sense given their daddy is now in charge of everything)

jamesvalentine
23-05-2017, 14:59
I'm interested to see if any new chapters appear in the fluff; I was wondering if GW would take this chance to establish some new poster boys, but it appears they are going with the Ultras still.
(Which makes sense given their daddy is now in charge of everything)
They've always been on the boxes? when other chapters get stuff they will get on the boxes.
that's like selling Russian infantry but having a picture on the box of Chinese soldiers because...why not

Malagor
23-05-2017, 15:03
those assault ones look terrible... it's a worse reaction than the first time I saw the centurions kit.
Yeah and they aren't even so terrible that they become amusing, they are just terrible.
Their weapons all around looks great but the marines themselves just look so average excluding the assault ones that looks horrible.

Denny
23-05-2017, 15:06
They've always been on the boxes? when other chapters get stuff they will get on the boxes.
that's like selling Russian infantry but having a picture on the box of Chinese soldiers because...why not

I just meant for the big box set rather than individual boxes of miniatures.
Dark Vengeance introduced the Crimson Slaughter as a new enemy (rather than painting the Chaos minatures as Black Legion or whatever)
GW could have done likewise here and established a new chapter.

I get why they didn't, but it would have been cool to see a brand new never before seen Space Marine Chapter.

Voss
23-05-2017, 15:44
I'm glad they didn't. That's how we got saddled with Black Templars, and all the fussing.

Gen.Steiner
23-05-2017, 16:25
£95 the box. Not a bad deal; if £20 more than AoS starter (IIRC - cba to check).

Not going to get the starter set though, despite my idea of painting up Primaris Marines in camouflage I just can't justify getting that set when I won't really use it. The big rulebook and the objective markers, on the other hand...

Cèsar de Quart
23-05-2017, 17:08
oh yes. I am loving the look of these. loving the standard bearer and Lieutenant especially. and the shielded pistols/carbines look funky as hell.
GW really have rekindled my interest after 11yrs of utter garbage for 40k.
I don't give a damn what all the whiners and doom sayers keep going on about and shoving in your face like the obnoxious T***S that they are.
40k has FINALLY been reborn.

and those plague marines are stunningly good models.
that lord of contagion....WOW!
and the Plague Guard?...stunning.

now what chapters do I really wanna do and paint all these in...

It's not that. It's not whining and doom saying. This will probably play gangbusters for GW, they'll make a buttload of money. The Stormcasts are already a big win for them, despite all the backlash from fans from ye olde times.

It's just that the whole concept of "newly bred marines" that are actually replacing the old ones is incredibly sad and takes away all distinction the old Marines could have had. I mean, new guys who are bigger, stronger and better come to play. What do the regular Marines think? The Finest of the Emperor's Children? The Angels of Death? They Shall Know No Fear! But... do they fear now that all their sacrifice has been for naught? Those decades, centuries of slaughter, and now they're being unceremoniously thrown aside by GW in favour of "some new guys" in more intrincate armour?

I appreciated the simplicity of the old Marines. I also liked the idea behind them; they're the super-elites, they're bred and nurtured into natural warriors, they are so good that you can carry a full company into battle and that's how many marines actually are in a company: roughly 100. And there are only 10 companies.

Now, though... new Marines are arriving. Are they gonna slowly kill off all the old Marines? Will Dante, Calgar, Azrael, Lysander, Hellbrecht, Tigurius, Ragnar or Ventris die off leaving their place to new, subpar characters? What about their traditions, their fluff, generally speaking? That was most of what appealed to me about the Marines, the mix between an order of warrior monks and a small nation-state that has existed for centuries. Neat. But these new guys... how long have they been around? If they have been around frozen since the Heresy, then they know nothing about the traditions and cults and idiosincracies of each Chapter. If they're new, then they sure have grown fast. This new Edition better take place in 224.M42, otherwise the generational substitution is totally stupid. I mean, this "Primaris Captain" in the beginner box... who the heck is he? How is he captain? Of what? In what capacity? Since when?

I am a fluff player. I like the fluff, I play the game, not the other way around. Now I have to see how to make my marines fit into this whole business, and this new business has not been well prepared. New armor, new equipment, new trinkets should have been the way to go. But new Marines alltogther? :/

Also, poor Fabius Bile.

If that's whining, then call me a whiner. I call them bad writers and bad storytellers. They also make broken games because that's the way the game business works nowadays.

PS: Everything I said depends on the Upgrade Clause: Can you turn a Marine into a Supermarine? Can a regular Astartes become a Restartes? If so, then... I guess we're mostly good. I still have a **** ton of what are soon-to-be oddly proportioned Marines, but hey, at least they're not doing that with my Guardsmen...

PSS: Also, I waited forever for Black Templar plastic upgrade kits... will I have to wait another 15 years for Primaris Black Templars...?

WordBearer
23-05-2017, 17:10
They've already stated that it's possible to upgrade existing marines to Primaris, so I'd imagine the most worthy of the old chapters will go under the knife and emerge big and beefy.

Gadhrain
23-05-2017, 17:22
Is it just me or does parts of the newMarines look like they were inspired by the Ultramarines in the old (and alternative) Dorian Heresy?

(see page 40-41 here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/heresy/thedornianheresy.pdf)

/ Gadhrain

Gen.Steiner
23-05-2017, 17:23
How is he Captain? Hypno-induced training. Actual training. Programming. Memory implants. All of the above.

After all, modern armies are filled with officers and NCOs who have never seen a day of action in their lives but are still officers and NCOs.

Cèsar de Quart
23-05-2017, 17:41
How is he Captain? Hypno-induced training. Actual training. Programming. Memory implants. All of the above.

After all, modern armies are filled with officers and NCOs who have never seen a day of action in their lives but are still officers and NCOs.

Not in the 42nd Millennium, they haven't.

The point is: we know who all the Ultra captains are. So, this unnamed Captain is Captain of... which company? Which old Captain has become Primaris? Etc.

Voss
23-05-2017, 18:22
Not in the 42nd Millennium, they haven't.

The point is: we know who all the Ultra captains are. So, this unnamed Captain is Captain of... which company? Which old Captain has become Primaris? Etc.
Depends who got horribly killed on the way to Terra or during the early battles of the crusade. It could literally be any of them, for good and plausible reasons.

And I'd be perfectly happy if whoever it is remained nameless. It's a drawback if each and every captain is predefined and immutable.

jamesvalentine
23-05-2017, 18:26
It's just that the whole concept of "newly bred marines" that are actually replacing the old ones is incredibly sad
Not read that anywhere. and in no videos have they said they are "replacing" old ones.
basic marines will always be needed. otherwise by that logic why aren't all space marines centurions?, why aren't all assault marines Vanguard? why aren't all tactical marines Sternguard?
marines in power armour have been in this game since 1st edition. GW would be committing financial suicide to just get rid of everything.

PSS: Also, I waited forever for Black Templar plastic upgrade kits... will I have to wait another 15 years for Primaris Black Templars...?
considering they said the heads and shoulder pads work with basic marine ones can't you just combine those and glue some chains on?

Lord Damocles
23-05-2017, 18:27
I wonder if there will be any explanation as to what happened to the 2nd Company's banner? since the one in the new box is different.

Lars Porsenna
23-05-2017, 18:34
From what I understand, the nu-Marines are upgrades of the old marines, not a new recruit implanted with a better geneseed, but an upgrade on an existing marine. So presumably Dante, Calgar & co can get upgraded. Also an excuse by GW to retire old Finecast minis & reissue with plastics..."Upgraded Calgar!"

Damon.

Voss
23-05-2017, 18:41
I was under the impression it was both. Yes, upgrades to the new enhancements can happen, but Mars also raised fresh units from their cut of the geneseed tithe.

Which includes the new chapters and reinforcements for trapped Legions like the BA.

Lost Egg
23-05-2017, 18:59
I believe that GW have said some chapters are refusing Primaris marines while other are absorbing them into their chapter. Existing marines can also be upgraded to Primaris marines. Personally I think all this is to cover GWs ass for now so players can field a one, other or both but, I think regular marines will effectively be left to Heresy gaming while main-line 40k will only really support the new Primaris marines. I expect that as GW revist each chapter with an army book we will find out just how many of them will switch over and any new models will be chapter versions of the primaris.

On the whole I'm liking the new minis, they have a cleaner more practical aesthetic with fewer skulls (always a good thing to my mind). I'm a little unsure on the captain model and on the interceptors (jump pack guys) but thats ok as I'm currently only thinking of picking up a lieutenant and an intercessor squad. I may well get more at some point.

I am wondering if the starter set minis will be push fit (I expect so) and when the individual squads etc will come up for sale, also will they be push fit or like the current tactical sprue.

I have been thinking about what chapter to build them as and I'm tempted to go Space Wolf but I am also intrigued by what new primaris chapters are going to be created...presumably they will be based on the gene seed of one of the founding chapters...?

Denny
23-05-2017, 19:58
Ditto. I'm really interested in new pure primaris chapters. Do they consider themselves superior? Are they mistrusted or seen as upstarts?

BramGaunt
23-05-2017, 20:10
Ditto. I'm really interested in new pure primaris chapters. Do they consider themselves superior? Are they mistrusted or seen as upstarts?

I dont think there will be much mistrust, seeing how they come from Guilliman. At least he is among the most trusted.

What currently interests me more is how the big chapters will react. While I think Imperial Fists will welcome them stoically, Space Wolves are probably not to keen that someone meddled with their Gene-seed, and Dark Angels... maybe they only took the Upgrade-kit.

barrangas
23-05-2017, 20:46
He's carrying a banner, why wouldn't he be called an Ancient?

Edit: Ninja'd by Bob Hunk.



Has nothing to do with age or experience. 'Ancient' literally means in military terminology, 'mark, symbol, signal; flag, standard, pennant' bearer.

Thanks, I didn't know about the use of ancient as a rank. I'm still rather amused that they are using... ancient... military ranks they like to use for old marines for their numarines too. Of course I doubt they'd take my suggestion for the rank of Mr. Spiffypants.

Spellfire
23-05-2017, 21:43
As someone who has been out of GW tabletop stuff for the last few years, would someone mind giving me a brief ELI5 on what's going on... Where did Roboute suddenly return from? Where are the new Marines2017 from and are they replacing the previous "Imperium's most Elite"? I guess they've finally advanced the 40k timeline? Not sure how I feel about that having been involved in 40k since the early-80s.

Thanks!

Sent from my HUAWEI ALE-L04 using Tapatalk

WordBearer
23-05-2017, 22:08
Guilliman has been in stasis ever since Fulgrim fought and poisoned him. He was healed by a combination of the best the Mechanicum has to offer and the prophet of Ynnead, Eldar god of the dead. If he ever takes his armor off, he dies.

Prior to the Heresy, Guilliman commissioned Cawl to start work on the Primaris project. Now that Guilliman is awake again, he sought an audience with the Emperor. Nobody knows what happened in there, but he's now the Lord Commander of the Imperium's armies (Warmaster in all but name) and decided the time was right to take the Primaris marines out of stasis.

ForgottenLore
23-05-2017, 22:25
Little surprised no one has mentioned that one of the Lt. Figs

http://pro.bols.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Lieutenant2.jpg
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is the figure from the first post


https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-kBl7tW_8jCA/WMRTmFQKoXI/AAAAAAABNdM/ymAUyMWDPpUfpFvHrHsx7EWNuR7dCTPKgCLcB/s1600/Capture.PNG
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Cèsar de Quart
23-05-2017, 23:23
Not read that anywhere. and in no videos have they said they are "replacing" old ones.
basic marines will always be needed. otherwise by that logic why aren't all space marines centurions?, why aren't all assault marines Vanguard? why aren't all tactical marines Sternguard?


No, GW will push towards Primaris-only chapters. They only have temporarilly accepted that Marines are mixed now as a way to reconciliate players who have Marine armies, but come on, no oldmarines minis are coming out ever again.

It's like the Empire for WHFB. Yes yes, we have a faction for them! They have rules and some splash of background, but no new minis will ever come out. Oh, what's that? You've been waiting for new plastic knights for 20 years? Too bad. Here, have some sigmarines on chicken turkeys. The old Empire is really a dead army. The new Bretonnia.

The old Marines are done. Sure, "basic marines will be needed", but GW doesn't need fluffy reasons, they have money reasons. They will push Primaris Marines because they are newer and flashier, they will keep basic marines but slowly turn away from them.

Don't take me wrong: great minis, great plastic kits, but it's a clear case of Sigmarinitis: great concept design, very, very poor background to come with it. And, of course, GW won't explore the INTERESTING part of bringing in new Marines trained by Cawl in Mars, clashing with Chapter traditions and idiosyncracies. Or explore it only in paperback awful novels, nowhere to be seen on the codexes, army indexes, datacards or whatever they pull out of their ******* hat.

They will pretend it all worked well. Like when Guilliman came to Terra and all of us expected a big showdown between "the man with the plan", between the Caesar of the 41st Millennium, and the machinery of the State, the High Lords of Terra, the empty seats that govern billions with the stroke of a pencil and the overwhelming inefficiency of the Administratum. I expected a "stabbed 23 times" scenario, or something more tragic, more dramatic, than "Hey guys, I'm back! You've all done a terrible job. Bad! Now go home, you're all fired. Yes, even you, Master of the Assassins. Yes, Representative of the Inquisition, pack up and go home, you're a jerk".

I'd like to see Guilliman's optimism and idealism clash more violently with the establishment and especially the Marines, who are so much different than what he remembers. There were glimpses of this in the last book, but not enough. Poorly explored idea. The Marines could get at each other's throats to protect their identity and independence as chapters. Guilliman could push his Ultras and their successors to force other Chapters to accept, slowly, the Imperial Truth or other Heresy-era doctrines. The Chapters could rebel. Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, they'd all fight back. Space Wolves especially. You could shake up the Galaxy and reach a dramatic but satisfactory conclusion: the death of Guilliman, the exile of some other important Chapter (the Dark Angels are already halfway renegade and the Space Wolves could wage war on the Imperium thinking they're still doing the right thing).

Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of what went wrong, fluff wise, with the End Times and Age of Sigmar, and I'm hating it. I came to 40k running away from the absolute disaster that was the AoS new setting. And now the black tides come to my new shores. Oh, despair.

WordBearer
23-05-2017, 23:25
Plenty of original scale marines minis will be coming out...

...for Heresy.

Wolf Lord Balrog
24-05-2017, 02:59
So nobody is terribly concerned that this is obviously a play to eventually completely replace OldMarines? I mean, these aren't just alternate models, and they don't just have a slightly better statline, they also have better equipment and organization too. They are Marines+1 in every way, and they come in every flavor.

WordBearer
24-05-2017, 04:35
So nobody is terribly concerned that this is obviously a play to eventually completely replace OldMarines? I mean, these aren't just alternate models, and they don't just have a slightly better statline, they also have better equipment and organization too. They are Marines+1 in every way, and they come in every flavor.Yeah, from a business standpoint that's what it is. But I gotta be honest here, this is probably the smartest way they could've done it because it at least offers some legacy support while allowing them to significantly retool how marines work going forward. At some point they had to break compatibility if they wanted to update the line. The fact that they kept compatibility for three decades is... kind of impressive.

The scale shift when it happened for Orks was less than elegant back in the day. They test-drove Primaris marines by giving a stealth scale shift to Orcs/Orruks in Age of Sigmar with the introduction of Brutes (who are bigger than Nobs). Same framework. Your old guys still exist, but so do these bigger guys. Folks dug it (and some people used Brutes as 30k Orks, which was also a time when Orks grew bigger).

Spell_of_Destruction
24-05-2017, 07:24
It's an interesting and ballsy move by GW really. There was no reason for them to "******* with the formula" for their most successful faction.

Perhaps they've considered the popularity of GK in recent years and see some value in bringing regular marines up to a similar level of eliteness. The basic tactical marine of 7th feels like a legacy unit from 3rd ed and no longer seems particularly elite due to 20 years of power creep.

BramGaunt
24-05-2017, 07:27
Not read that anywhere. and in no videos have they said they are "replacing" old ones.
basic marines will always be needed. otherwise by that logic why aren't all space marines centurions?, why aren't all assault marines Vanguard? why aren't all tactical marines Sternguard?
marines in power armour have been in this game since 1st edition. GW would be committing financial suicide to just get rid of everything.

considering they said the heads and shoulder pads work with basic marine ones can't you just combine those and glue some chains on?


So nobody is terribly concerned that this is obviously a play to eventually completely replace OldMarines? I mean, these aren't just alternate models, and they don't just have a slightly better statline, they also have better equipment and organization too. They are Marines+1 in every way, and they come in every flavor.

I fully expect them to replace the old breed in the long rung. It makes sense, both buisnes wise and fluff wise. IF the new breed is superior, why keep breeding the old ones? I think a lot of Marines recently bit the dust to explain why their chapters would be rather welcome of newly minted members our of nowhere.

If this happens gradually, I think I will be able to live with it. Aff all armies out there, Marines are the one product line that can easily take it. You will be able to get loads of the old ones from ebay for decades. I'm not saying that I am happy with it, but in my opinion, the overhaul was desperatly needed. While I admired the compatibility, the design was just to 90es to work for me anymore.

And yes, I expect the old breed to live on in 30k. I guess that is one reason why we got two marks of heresy-era armoru to begin with.

Banville
24-05-2017, 08:16
No, GW will push towards Primaris-only chapters. They only have temporarilly accepted that Marines are mixed now as a way to reconciliate players who have Marine armies, but come on, no oldmarines minis are coming out ever again.

It's like the Empire for WHFB. Yes yes, we have a faction for them! They have rules and some splash of background, but no new minis will ever come out. Oh, what's that? You've been waiting for new plastic knights for 20 years? Too bad. Here, have some sigmarines on chicken turkeys. The old Empire is really a dead army. The new Bretonnia.

The old Marines are done. Sure, "basic marines will be needed", but GW doesn't need fluffy reasons, they have money reasons. They will push Primaris Marines because they are newer and flashier, they will keep basic marines but slowly turn away from them.

Don't take me wrong: great minis, great plastic kits, but it's a clear case of Sigmarinitis: great concept design, very, very poor background to come with it. And, of course, GW won't explore the INTERESTING part of bringing in new Marines trained by Cawl in Mars, clashing with Chapter traditions and idiosyncracies. Or explore it only in paperback awful novels, nowhere to be seen on the codexes, army indexes, datacards or whatever they pull out of their ******* hat.

They will pretend it all worked well. Like when Guilliman came to Terra and all of us expected a big showdown between "the man with the plan", between the Caesar of the 41st Millennium, and the machinery of the State, the High Lords of Terra, the empty seats that govern billions with the stroke of a pencil and the overwhelming inefficiency of the Administratum. I expected a "stabbed 23 times" scenario, or something more tragic, more dramatic, than "Hey guys, I'm back! You've all done a terrible job. Bad! Now go home, you're all fired. Yes, even you, Master of the Assassins. Yes, Representative of the Inquisition, pack up and go home, you're a jerk".

I'd like to see Guilliman's optimism and idealism clash more violently with the establishment and especially the Marines, who are so much different than what he remembers. There were glimpses of this in the last book, but not enough. Poorly explored idea. The Marines could get at each other's throats to protect their identity and independence as chapters. Guilliman could push his Ultras and their successors to force other Chapters to accept, slowly, the Imperial Truth or other Heresy-era doctrines. The Chapters could rebel. Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, they'd all fight back. Space Wolves especially. You could shake up the Galaxy and reach a dramatic but satisfactory conclusion: the death of Guilliman, the exile of some other important Chapter (the Dark Angels are already halfway renegade and the Space Wolves could wage war on the Imperium thinking they're still doing the right thing).

Anyway, I'm seeing a lot of what went wrong, fluff wise, with the End Times and Age of Sigmar, and I'm hating it. I came to 40k running away from the absolute disaster that was the AoS new setting. And now the black tides come to my new shores. Oh, despair.

A million times, this. I'd be completely on board with numarines if the background was more nuanced. I mean, you mean to tell me the Salamanders, for example, who have never fully bought in to the whole codex astartes thing, are going to kow tow to Papa Smurf when their own Primarch is still presumed alive? I said this before about AoS, the popularity of franchises like Game of Thrones is based on the human love of backstabbing and intrigue. It's not about the dragons.

Rogue Star
24-05-2017, 08:24
I fully expect them to replace the old breed in the long rung. It makes sense, both buisnes wise and fluff wise. IF the new breed is superior, why keep breeding the old ones?

Are they though? They seem overly specialized. It was mentioned by Pete Foley that, either something to do with their training or they themselves, can't seem to be tactically flexible, if that's the right term.

Edit: Also in regards to the scale, we've got our, as far as I know, first leaked comparison pic.

230243

MasterCrafted
24-05-2017, 09:02
Woah that plague lord is a beast!

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Denny
24-05-2017, 10:49
I mean, you mean to tell me the Salamanders, for example, who have never fully bought in to the whole codex astartes thing, are going to kow tow to Papa Smurf when their own Primarch is still presumed alive?

Has anyone told you that? There is a lot of info bouncing around but I don't think it has been categorically stated how the Salamanders have reacted to the new marines.

Though I think its a little dismissive to assume the Salamanders wouldn't at least consider Papa Smurf's offer of additional resources; they have always been portrayed as one of the more reasonable and pragmatic chapters.

Gen.Steiner
24-05-2017, 11:00
Extra soldiers? What commander is going to say no to reinforcements?

Denny
24-05-2017, 11:33
Extra soldiers? What commander is going to say no to reinforcements?

An idiot.
Admitted, the Imperium seems to be governed by idiots terrified of change or improvement, but the Space Marines are usually portrayed as being a little more rational and pragmatic.
Let's face it, a mythical demigod has returned to lead the imperium and offered a means of not only creating new and more powerful space marines but transforming existing marines into new, more powerful forms.
Some chapters will reject this on the basis that its different and different is by definition always wrong, but you would have thought most would be interested because:

1) The majority of the Chapters are descended from Roboute Guilliman. He is their Primarch. They do as he says.
2) The remaining minority of Chapters are either going to upgrade or seriously lose out in terms of raw power. Plus how embarrassing will it be when a bunch of Chapter masters get together for a retreat and suddenly everyone else is a foot taller and talking over you, and whenever you make a suggestion they sort of look down and wince and go 'Yeah, that's OK bro, but that's not really how we do things anymore. Its a Prime thing; you wouldn't understand'. Then they keep making jokes you don't get and when you ask them to explain they say 'Oh its a Prime-thing, you had to be there', then they high-five. Plus whenever you ask what time it is they all shout 'Prime-Time' and high-five again, and you can't even reach your arm high enough to reciprocate.

jamesvalentine
24-05-2017, 12:03
No, GW will push towards Primaris-only chapters. They only have temporarilly accepted that Marines are mixed now as a way to reconciliate players who have Marine armies, but come on, no oldmarines minis are coming out ever again.
can you confirm this with cold hard facts? and by that I don't mean "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!"

It's like the Empire for WHFB. Yes yes, we have a faction for them! They have rules and some splash of background, but no new minis will ever come out.
can you confirm this with cold hard facts? and by that I don't mean "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

So nobody is terribly concerned that this is obviously a play to eventually completely replace OldMarines?
can you confirm this with cold hard facts? and by that I don't mean "OH GOD THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!

Typical 40k "fans"

Voss
24-05-2017, 12:28
A million times, this. I'd be completely on board with numarines if the background was more nuanced. I mean, you mean to tell me the Salamanders, for example, who have never fully bought in to the whole codex astartes thing, are going to kow tow to Papa Smurf when their own Primarch is still presumed alive?

Wait, wait. Using an ambivalent attitude to the codex is rather bizarre in these circumstances. The codex does support these unit organizations, or the tactical roles implied by these weapon set ups. Roboute himself is moving away from the calcified traditions the codex has become.


I said this before about AoS, the popularity of franchises like Game of Thrones is based on the human love of backstabbing and intrigue. It's not about the dragons.
Weird, then, that you're summarily rejecting a setup that can lead to more backstabbing and intrigue. And there aren't any dragons.