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Malefic Scholar
16-03-2017, 01:53
Has anyone seen or thought of making any rules for the star trek universe? Star fleet security teams and Klingon warriors and what not? Maybe some Star trek ships for BFG( yes I know they are tiny in scale compared to 40k ships but are way more advanced so they could conceivably compete)

Buddy Bear
16-03-2017, 04:34
Has anyone seen or thought of making any rules for the star trek universe? Star fleet security teams and Klingon warriors and what not? Maybe some Star trek ships for BFG( yes I know they are tiny in scale compared to 40k ships but are way more advanced so they could conceivably compete)

They can't compete at all. Starfleet, Klingon, etc. ships are hopelessly outclassed by 40k ships in nearly every way. About the only thing that's superior is their real space travel speed is faster (In that Starfleet ships can travel in real space faster than the speed of light, but that speed is miniscule to how fast Imperial ships can traverse the galaxy while traveling in the warp), they have reliable transporters (albeit useless in combat), and replicators. In every way that matters for a combat game, they're totally useless, as Imperial weapons and shields operate on several orders of magnitude greater than Star Trek ships, being able to quickly obliterate a Starfleet ship while being almost totally immune to return fire due to void shielding designed to withstand the level of firepower put out by 40k ships. A single nova cannon blast could probably vaporize an entire fleet, while Imperial warp travel is vastly superior to Starfleet warp travel, so Imperial ships can run circles around Starfleet ships and strike anywhere at will. I'd never put those two together in a combat game, as a 40k ship engaging a Starfleet ship is like playing a space combat game on God Mode.

As for stats for their personnel, I'd say the following:

STARFLEET SECURITY OFFICER


WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld
Sv


2
3
3
3
1
3
1
8
-


Phaser Rifle
Standard Setting (Range: 24", Str: 3, AP: 5, Assault 1)
Maximum Setting (Range: 12", Str 6, AP: 3, Assault 1)
Wide Beam Setting (Range: Template, Str: 4, AP: 5, Assault 1)

KLINGON WARRIOR


WS
BS
S
T
W
I
A
Ld
Sv


3
3
3
3
1
3
1
7
6+


Disruptor Pistol (Range: 12", Str: 4, AP: 5, Type: Pistol)
Bat'leth (Range: -, Str: User +1, AP: -, Type: Melee)

jamesvalentine
16-03-2017, 09:51
I love Star Fleet Battles from Amarillo Design Bureau.
they do space and ground combat systems and have two ranges of models for the ships.
you also had star trek attack wing which I loved but has now ended.

Commissar von Toussaint
20-03-2017, 17:40
I immediately thought of Star Fleet Battles. Used to be a thing back in the day...

The rules would work however you want to make them work. Trek ships are smaller, but one could argue that phasers would simply bypass the shields used by 40k ships, which seem to be laser or plasma based.

The warp may or may not be faster in strategic terms, but "warp speed" would give Trek ships a decided tactical advantage. They also turn on a dime and so would outmaneuver anything set against them.

Then again telepaths might turn the crews into vegetables.

Bah, different genres. Do it however you want!

The Highlander
20-03-2017, 22:08
You forgot to add a rule that every time someone uses a psychic power, enters close combat or has a model from chaos, tyranids or necrons within line of sight the starfleet models have to take an immediate leadership check or run screaming from the unspeekable horror before them!

Buddy Bear
21-03-2017, 06:54
The rules would work however you want to make them work. Trek ships are smaller, but one could argue that phasers would simply bypass the shields used by 40k ships, which seem to be laser or plasma based.

I don't see why they'd bypass shields. 40k void shields stop both munitions and energy based weapons. The only thing they don't stop are slower moving torpedoes, because the void shields respond to the velocity of an attack. But even so, 40k weapons are several orders of magnitude more powerful than those of Star Trek ships, and 40k ships can endure a horrific amount of punishment even after their void shields have been brought down, so even without void shielding the Star Trek ship would have a hard time inflicting any real damage. There's just simply too vast a gulf between both universes in terms of damage output and ability to absorb damage for their ships. A more even matchup would be 40k Vs. Star Wars. Although in that case, in terms of the two universes, Star Wars would win, as their FTL is quicker, more efficient, and reliable, they understand how their ships work and how to repair them, and build more all the time. But on a game table they'd represent relatively equally matched forces.


The warp may or may not be faster in strategic terms, but "warp speed" would give Trek ships a decided tactical advantage.

Not really. They can only move in straight lines when they're moving at warp, and warp speed isn't really something used in combat. Usually only when one ship is chasing another and firing on them at warp. Whenever ships want to fight they always drop down to impulse speed.


They also turn on a dime and so would outmaneuver anything set against them.

Well, yeah, the smaller you are the more maneuverable you are. But if maneuverability were the end-all and be-all then fighters would dominate over battleships. Besides, with the volume of fire that 40k ships can put out, maneuverability won't matter if they can't avoid catching fire. Nevermind the aforementioned fighters and bombers, which are closer to Star Trek ships in size but pack more powerful weaponry.

WLBjork
28-03-2017, 16:57
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Isoton

A photon torpedo has a yield of 690GT...if it detonates.

Want to take a guess at the yield if the photon torpedo doesn't detonate, especially travelling at Warp Factor One? There is *no* 40k weapon with that level of damage output.

Bloodknight
28-03-2017, 17:21
There is *no* 40k weapon with that level of damage output.

A 40K warp missile just sucks you into hell. Yield is not a question ;).

Buddy Bear
28-03-2017, 19:34
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Isoton

A photon torpedo has a yield of 690GT...if it detonates.

Want to take a guess at the yield if the photon torpedo doesn't detonate, especially travelling at Warp Factor One? There is *no* 40k weapon with that level of damage output.

A) Those sources are non canon.
B) No phpton torpedo has EVER been shown to have anywhere near that level of damage output in any of the shows, which ARE canon. They're more accurately in the megaton range. Moreover, if firing a photon torpedo at warp were especially effective, everyone would do it. Nobody does it, though, because it's not at all effective.

On the other hand, 40k weapons typically are in the hundreds of gigatons to terraton range, even petaton range.

Commissar von Toussaint
28-03-2017, 22:39
A) Those sources are non canon.
B) No phpton torpedo has EVER been shown to have anywhere near that level of damage output in any of the shows, which ARE canon. They're more accurately in the megaton range. Moreover, if firing a photon torpedo at warp were especially effective, everyone would do it. Nobody does it, though, because it's not at all effective.

On the other hand, 40k weapons typically are in the hundreds of gigatons to terraton range, even petaton range.

Yeah, but they have to be hauled into position by teams of slaves. :rolleyes:

For all the sheer destructiveness of 40k weaponry, it's run and maintained by people who have no idea how most of it works. In fact, the appropriate Star Trek solution would be to go direct to the Emperor and persuade to him freaking die already.

While Spock distracts him with a debate on ethics, Kirk will seduce the leaders of the Sisters of Battle, giving Scotty access to the Golden Throne, which he shorts out. Bones will be asked to stabilize the guy, but he's snap "I'm a doctor, not a necromancer!"

And that will be the end of the Imperium. :D

This is an utterly apples and oranges comparison. Both environments have different assumptions regarding how physics work. Star Trek tries to keep it within the limits of known physical laws while 40k has created its own universe - a parallel existence where not only does Spock have a beard, he has horns, wings and tail as well.:cool:

barrangas
29-03-2017, 14:22
A) Those sources are non canon.
B) No phpton torpedo has EVER been shown to have anywhere near that level of damage output in any of the shows, which ARE canon. They're more accurately in the megaton range. Moreover, if firing a photon torpedo at warp were especially effective, everyone would do it. Nobody does it, though, because it's not at all effective.

On the other hand, 40k weapons typically are in the hundreds of gigatons to terraton range, even petaton range.

There was an episode of Enterprise where they tested an enhanced phaser design where they accidentally blew up a mountain on a planetoid. I also remember them talking about the potential yields of torpeados, which were variable depending on what you needed at the time. This was after the attack on Earth if anyone wants to look it up.

As far as Warp Speed vs Warp travel, Voyager was looking at about 80 years to get from the Delta Quad to Alpha Quad. 40k's basic fluff around using the Warp is that it can take hundreds of years to get to a fight, if you make it at all, let alone make it in time. I'd say Star Trek has the advantage personally.

I agree that it is an apples to oranges argument that would have to be based on game balance rather than canon to actually use. Star Trek ships would probably be very hard to hit, extremely maneuverable, and be all about critical hits rather than damage. Star Trek is all about precision where 40k focuses on overwhelming volumes of fire with little accuracy.

barrangas
29-03-2017, 15:05
For laughs I looked up the damage potential of photon torpedos, which varies wildly depending on the series. They usually measured in isotons, which has no real world equivalent, and is based on an anti-matter reaction. Memory Alpha wiki lists various canon sources for the effective power. The clearest comparison is from Voyager when it's stated that 50 isotons could destroy a small planet when they increased the yield to 54. In another Voyager episode a 25 isotons warhead was said to be capable of destroying a city. In an episode of DS9 a 90 isotons warhead was used to destroy an 800km radius on a planet. Voyager had a 200 yield class 6 warhead and ST: Into the Darkness had a 320 class 12. So much like Superman, the power is subject to the writer.

Also, according to Wikipedia siting, the previously cited Enterprise episode rated the new Phase cannons as 500 gigajoules or roughly 120 tons of TNT.

Also phasers replaced plasma weapons in Enterprise for personal and starship weapons. If we assuming that plasma works the same in both settings if you combine them and that phasers are superior to plasma then they went from S6 AP3, avoiding the gets hot rule, Something that's more versatile and powerful. It would explain why armor is rarely used and the Klingon armor seems to offer no protection from it. The description of disrupters sound like Tau ion weapons to me, just with a lot better understanding behind them.

Of course there is also the line that comes up in Star Wars vs Star Trek, when the Enterprise is being ineffectually attacked, and Worf scornfully remarks "They're using lasers".

barrangas
29-03-2017, 16:18
Not really. They can only move in straight lines when they're moving at warp, and warp speed isn't really something used in combat. Usually only when one ship is chasing another and firing on them at warp. Whenever ships want to fight they always drop down to impulse speed.

Actually ST ships adjust course all the time in Warp in the series without dropping out of Warp. You see them going in a straight line because that is the fastest way to travel. As for fighting in Warp, it does happen. It only happens though when your pursuer is faster than you. Usually you then run to some spot you can loose them or drop out of Warp to try to dodge them as evasive maneuvers at FTL will likely get you dead really fast. Otherwise, if are ships have the same maximum Warp and I. Jump to it 30 seconds before you, I will likely have several light years of a lead on you that you can't close.