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View Full Version : More thoughts on the new 40k 8th ed features



Herkamer63
10-05-2017, 21:02
The Warhammer Community guys are just pumping this stuff out like it's no one's business. This time, we're hearing more on what to expect from the actual models/units themselves. Plenty of info and it sounds awesome to me. Let's look, shall we (in no particular order)?

Large Models - No brainer that there would be a chart for the big guys of 40k. Although we can see the Morkanaught will be much better, or at least should be. It gives me hope that the regular Land Raiders will make an epic return to tabletop. Of course, it won't be fun going up against a Stompa (or will it).

Infantry Models - Everybody split firing? Yes, please! Makes basic guys so much better. The wounding table makes sense, although plasma may not be as good because of it. We'll see what happens on that front. All in all, expect to see, not just regular, but elite units as well being used more and becoming much more reliable.

Weapons pt 2 - BIG changes. Twin Linked now doubles the amount of shots. Broadsides, Centurions, Storm Talons, and anything of the like just got nastier, as far as how much shooting they can put out. Melta is gonna be scary as hell in this edition: S8, AP -4, Damage d6, when half range roll 2d6 and pick the highest. Yeah, scary (please refer to Fire Dragons). Combi Weapons also get a nice buff. Firing between 2 modes or just fire both weapons at -1 BS, but no longer bound to one use (nice). The Battle Cannon is kind of a let down: still S8 but AP -2 and d3 damage. The upside though it's d6 shots and maintains 72", so it's still useful (which I'm gonna go over here in further detail). Other than that, this is pretty solid.

Battle Forged Armies - NO MORE FORMATIONS! I'll be honest, I didn't really want them to go. There were some more powerful than others but they could have been easily balanced. Since that's no longer the case, new FOCs will be present. Size of the games having an affect on the amount of command pts you have is interesting. Also, flyers having their own slot is a good way to make room for other FA units, so a win there. I'm curious to see what the other FOCs will be like. I'm sure we'll know more in the coming weeks.

Faction Focus - We actually got to see a little nip with the Astra Militarum (a nice little added bonus). Orders are automatic, Commisars will play a vital role for morale (at least we've been told they would), and Ratlings are one of the units (there will be more I'm sure) that can target characters regardless if they're the closest unit or not! The Leman Russ Battle Tank will be a beast. T8, 3+ armor, and 12 wounds (I just they would have done a little more with the battle cannon (but that's just me). In a squadron, they'll be rough. They mentioned a few other units but didn't go into detail, however, from what they are claiming Guard will be much better. I would say they're gonna be heavy hitters this addition, so don't underestimate these guys this time around.

This edition is forming Voltron very well, but it just seems like forever to get to June. I thought adding in Guard was a good move on GW's part just to satisfy the taste a little further before the big release next month. Hopefully, they can touch on some of the other armies soon (would like to see if Nids will improve much). Keep it coming, WC!

Codsticker
15-05-2017, 19:47
Some interesting things in the future for 40K, that is for sure.

Thread moved to Games Workshop General Discussion.

Codsticker

The Warseer Mod Squad

Rogue Star
15-05-2017, 22:35
Melta is gonna be scary as hell in this edition: S8, AP -4, Damage d6, when half range roll 2d6 and pick the highest.

I'm still not sure how much more scary it is than other options, I sometimes feel people overlook that weapon damage specifically doesn't overspill in this edition: Yeah, the Melta does D6 wounds... to a single model. That makes it ideal for a vehicle or a dreadnought, even a single character if you can catch them alone, but shooting it at say a mob of Orks, is one (albeit guaranteed) dead Ork, not D6 of them.

Spell_of_Destruction
16-05-2017, 00:31
I'm still not sure how much more scary it is than other options, I sometimes feel people overlook that weapon damage specifically doesn't overspill in this edition: Yeah, the Melta does D6 wounds... to a single model. That makes it ideal for a vehicle or a dreadnought, even a single character if you can catch them alone, but shooting it at say a mob of Orks, is one (albeit guaranteed) dead Ork, not D6 of them.

As a 2nd ed vet this seems entirely normal. The Instant Death mechanic was just another 'bolt on' rule that was devised in 3rd ed to patch up the fact that they had ripped out the damage mechanic as part of their 'streamlining' ethos.

With largely standardised profiles and the reintroduction of the damage characteristic, we will see a more granular (which seems to be the word of the month currently) approach to weapon damage. There's going to be a far more natural progression from anti horde to anti infantry to anti multi wound infantry to anti large monster/vehicle.

It's interesting that we have already seen two multi wound infantry units (Terminators and Primaris marines). The damage characteristic offers more freedom to introduce multi wound infantry so they might become more common and we see multi wound Wraithguard, Praetorians, Crisis Suits etc. There's a trade off there between increased resilience against small arms fire and vulnerability to weapons which cause multiple wounds (presumably weapons such as autocannons and plasma).

omegoku
17-05-2017, 14:29
When the autocannon was first introduced it was a little battlecannon, rather than the two shot anti light vehicle weapon it became. I wonder how it will fair in the new edition.
Battle cannon is a let down. I can't see Marines cowering in fear from the Leman Russ like they do currently.

I am very hopeful for this edition, I just hope there won't be too many rules on every unit (undoing the good of stripping out USRs) and that stuff like Mortal Wounds will be handed out willy nilly (Mandiblasters went from las pistol to Mortal Wound generators) thus undoing all the good of balancing wounds, saves, etc.

Commissar von Toussaint
21-05-2017, 23:19
As a 2nd ed vet this seems entirely normal. The Instant Death mechanic was just another 'bolt on' rule that was devised in 3rd ed to patch up the fact that they had ripped out the damage mechanic as part of their 'streamlining' ethos.

Oh, I don't know, it fit in nicely with their emphasis on turning a game of fire and movement into a giant bar brawl in the center of the board. Rhino rush, anyone?

I have to say I'm tremendously encouraged by what I've seen.

BUT...

GW has a track record of putting together a nice and balanced rules set and then utterly destroying it with the subsequent army lists. One of the few nice things about 3rd ed. 40k was that they almost immediately did that with the Blood Angels codex, which not only showed GW had lost all concept of play balance but also was banking on a surge of red paint sales to bolster the bottom line.

I'll give it a year. If the game hasn't been wrecked by that point, I'll seriously consider "getting current."

Spell_of_Destruction
22-05-2017, 01:39
Maintaining a consistent rules design ethos has always been a challenge or GW. There have been previous attempts to achieve a semblance of balance that were subsequently abandoned and I think this leads to frustration among the player base as an army is a significant investment and GW keep shifting the goal posts as to what exceeds in game. Fine, and perhaps even exciting, if you're a flavour of the month WAAC type. Irritating for those who are loyal to one or two factions.

I think there is cause for optimism in that GW has seemingly identified that the problem isn't only its rules design but the cyclical nature of codex releases which has subordinated balance to other considerations. GW seems to have finally decided to abandon the codex release cycle which has been the main cause of codex creep for the past two decades. I sincerely hope that the new 'living system' ethos isn't just lip service.

morvaeldd
30-05-2017, 21:21
IMHO they are simply releasing the usual Ravening Hordes with all armies updated for the new edition (not to hurt sales of armies without new codex), but they made a brilliant move and they will charge for it (is it first time?). Later on, when proper codices will arrive (they already said they will, with more background etc), those interim books will be made obsolete. Of course some people will be happy with those books and play using those rules for much longer, because they will probably have the most balanced set of rules for 8th edition, that will be destroyed by the usual codex creep. Just as it happened with WFB 6th edition Ravening Hordes.

Lars Porsenna
30-05-2017, 21:48
IMHO they are simply releasing the usual Ravening Hordes with all armies updated for the new edition (not to hurt sales of armies without new codex), but they made a brilliant move and they will charge for it (is it first time?). Later on, when proper codices will arrive (they already said they will, with more background etc), those interim books will be made obsolete. Of course some people will be happy with those books and play using those rules for much longer, because they will probably have the most balanced set of rules for 8th edition, that will be destroyed by the usual codex creep. Just as it happened with WFB 6th edition Ravening Hordes.

Well from what I understand, GW is going to re-evaluate points yearly, so as long as they redo points properly codex creep will be irrelevant.

Damon.

morvaeldd
31-05-2017, 11:28
This may result in having to purchase updated books/codices on a yearly basis. Another win for them. We get updated points, but have to pay for it. This will turn into game-as-a-service. Perhaps they should introduce subscription for books (one big for every book and smaller ones for single army).

Commissar von Toussaint
02-06-2017, 00:23
Maybe they join the internet age and go with cheap downloads?

morvaeldd
02-06-2017, 07:16
We'll see. After AoS I'm not sure. They advertised it (that's how I remember this) as going with free PDFs for every army and getting rid of paid army books, saying the new books will be more about scenarios and campaigns. It turned out the PDFs were only for eliminated factions, all new factions came with their fat and pricey books. So nothing changed. Well, it did, after all the stopgap books for 40k8 will be slightly better looking than PDFs, but they will be sold (125 GBP for all 5? Quite a lot compared to the usual-before 0).

Commissar von Toussaint
07-06-2017, 00:47
That's why I'm holding off on buying it. For the first time since 2001, I'm interested in the "current" version of 40k, but I can't ignore the many disappointments.

For 40k, codex creep is the real killer. It doesn't matter how 'clean' the core rules are, the special rules in the books end up strangling the system. If GW can keep that in check, they might have a decent game to bring back the old timers.

Runesight
09-06-2017, 00:04
I just want to know when the SQUAT rules will be released!

Can you imagine the number of old guys that would actually glance at a GW product if old style Squats were released?

I know Jervis said it will never happen....but Never is predicated on quarterly reports....so someday

:}}}}

toonboy78
09-06-2017, 11:52
I just want to know when the SQUAT rules will be released!



they are called adeptus astartes now

Moriarty
09-06-2017, 17:29
:-)

I see what you did there. . .

Commissar von Toussaint
13-06-2017, 00:48
they are called adeptus astartes now

Do they made models for them?

toonboy78
13-06-2017, 16:48
my current thoughts:

3 Ways to play. this is great. understanding that there are these different types of player each wanting something a little different will hugely benefit the game. PP will actually make easier to have big games (10k) as do you really need the detail of all the weapons at that level
updating rules. if they keep to it great. once a year is fine. feedback from a wide range of sources though
quicker game. yes!
new marines love them (i think my normal ones will be obsolete in 5 years)