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Kage2020
15-07-2006, 01:58
I saw this over on RPG.net and couldn't help but post it in a semi-tongue-in-cheek fashion given the way that things tend to go in the hobby (the Avatar miniature, etc., etc.). Perhaps we have final insight into how the Primarchs, or even the Emperor, is eventually going to look?
http://www.rivetgeek.net/images/motivator2b9f7f39e179a26a018ae7b550079d42.jpg


Mods be gentle. Just thought that I would share the humour... ;)

Kage

Shaper Shakra
15-07-2006, 02:22
Very nice! I took me a couple minutes, but I get the joke now! :p

MrLiy
15-07-2006, 03:09
I think I get it...

Kage2020
15-07-2006, 03:25
Incidentally, it was just the picture and not the title that I was amused by! :D :D :D

Kage

Melchiah
15-07-2006, 07:30
I donr get it:confused:

Lastie
15-07-2006, 11:03
lol. I think this is a D&D pic, in which case the 'Solar' reference would be to the race of Angels in the D&D world by the same name.

Good find Kage! I can quite imagine GW releasing a Human Primarch (never mind those mutated Daemon ones) with the size and stats of a C'tan. You can hear the fanboys already ...

Crazy Tom
15-07-2006, 11:32
They'd have to find a good excuse for bringing one back...

fracas
15-07-2006, 11:36
the image of a towering Primarch over his space marines, if disproportionate can look odd
but is this really any different than the size mismatch between a demonlord and CSM?

Ardathair
15-07-2006, 11:45
My take on the picture:

The Emperor wore Golden Armor, the guy in thepicture wears gilden armor and a blank/minion style face. Plus the fact that he is towering over the other power armored figures. Great pic., a mindless brute the leader of ... what>> mindless killing machines I think?

Shaper Shakra
15-07-2006, 14:55
You guys are missing it- he's saying that GW would just make a primarch huge because that's what they do with all their models (like the avatar; it wasn't always huge).

Dakkagor
15-07-2006, 15:04
lol. I think this is a D&D pic, in which case the 'Solar' reference would be to the race of Angels in the D&D world by the same name.

No, thats an exalted picture. The central figure is a warstrider, the men around it are Ashigaru and Gunzosha armour equipped warriors and dragonblooded exalts. They are going to beat up some solars, because solars are viewed as "teh evil" and often run over the dragonbloods dogs. :angel:

Honest.

Brother_Falco
15-07-2006, 15:06
We-ell, if Sanguinus can break a ******* great daemon's back over his knee, it would imply the Primarchs were quite sizable no?

Kage2020
15-07-2006, 20:09
You guys are missing it- he's saying that GW would just make a primarch huge because that's what they do with all their models (like the avatar; it wasn't always huge). Remember that it was meant tongue-in-cheek, i.e. equivalent to the :p smilie!

It was, however, most definitely a poke at the idea that "powerful" equates to big. You can see it in some of the miniature trends (is that a weird form of oxymorn - increasing size in miniature trends!? :eyebrows: ), whether it is from the fact that the "'ard" things (to use Gav Thorpe's term!) grow in size, carry bigger weapons, etc. Indeed, RPG.net also has a couple of images that might tickle you on this subject as well:

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=5771915&postcount=15

And:

http://static.flickr.com/54/149482406_dcece6a17d.jpg

Regards...

Kage

Captain Stern
15-07-2006, 21:03
Good find Kage! I can quite imagine GW releasing a Human Primarch (never mind those mutated Daemon ones) with the size and stats of a C'tan. You can hear the fanboys already ...

Hillarious.

Of course, the writers of 2nd edition 40k, writing as 'omnipotent narrators', described the primarchs as god like beings. Therefore, who are you to browbeat people who would quite rightly expect the primarchs to have the stats of a C'tan or better?

Kage2020
15-07-2006, 21:09
Oh god, that sounds serious! :P With that said, is there any such thing as an "omnipotent narrator" in GW beyond their own day dreams? Or even omniscient, when it comes down to it.

Anyway, hopefully the tongue-in-cheek nature of the thread doesn't annoy too many people. After all, if you cannot poke fun at yourself then who can you? (This coming from a self-avowed "pedantic git"! :D)

Kage

Captain Stern
15-07-2006, 21:40
Kage2020: Anyway, hopefully the tongue-in-cheek nature of the thread doesn't annoy too many people. After all, if you cannot poke fun at yourself then who can you? (This coming from a self-avowed "pedantic git"! )

To have primarchs that size is clearly absurd and, unlike Greater Daemons, there's nothing in any of the 'fluff' to suggest that they were that big, not even Magnus. But Lastie thought he'd attach his biased view on a Primarchs abilities to the joke, so that anything different to his view would also have to be considered absurd by association. So, yes, this was a lighthearted thread until that happened, and I wasn't prepared to let it slide.


Kage2020:Oh god, that sounds serious! :P With that said, is there any such thing as an "omnipotent narrator" in GW beyond their own day dreams? Or even omniscient, when it comes down to it.

Sorry, you're right. It is omniscient. I'm not the one who coined the term (but am thankful to the one who did). I think a great proportion of 2nd ed background was written in that way, yes. But this has nothing to do with the spirit of the thread so I'll leave it at that.

Kage2020
15-07-2006, 22:05
Phew. Thanks for not taking that last in the wrong way, Captain Stern. My appreciations!

I'm going to disagree with you on your penultimate comment but agree with your final one. With that said, the nature of supposedly "omniscient 'fluff'" for me is shown with regards to the Emperor and the Chaos Gods. Cool? Yes. Consistent? Not on your nelly. Again, though, another thread for that one.

Kage

Ardathair
16-07-2006, 03:16
Posted by Kage2020:
It was, however, most definitely a poke at the idea that "powerful" equates to big. You can see it in some of the miniature trends (is that a weird form of oxymorn - increasing size in miniature trends!? ), whether it is from the fact that the "'ard" things (to use Gav Thorpe's term!) grow in size, carry bigger weapons, etc. Indeed, RPG.net also has a couple of images that might tickle you on this subject as well:

What are you talking about? The Genestealer Partiarch is supposed to be larger, <Avoids looking at SM chaplain and commanders in power armor/artificer armor, the size of old terminators.> And the Orks are supposed to get larger with age. <Makes sure the Pheonix Lords are boxed up and burried some where.>:D

Wraith
16-07-2006, 09:59
While they suggest the Primarchs are bigger than Astartes to the same proportion as Astartes are bigger than humans I still get the impression (in my mind's eye) the Emperor is within the human height range.

Kage2020
16-07-2006, 20:00
Again, it wasn't a serious look into the 'fluff', but since some serious approaches have been mentioned I'll quickly take a pop at my interpretation, which an be put as simple equation... Average human ~ Emperor < Marine ~ Primarch. Simple.

With that said, and as Ardathair alludes to, it's always been there even if in my mind it is getting worse with - ha! - age. :D

Kage

Ardathair
18-07-2006, 05:38
One point, a bit more serious then what I have posted previously on this thread. The Emperor, was supposed to have worked behind the scenes for quite a while before creating the Primarchs. Rather difficult to stay in the background when you are 8+ feet tall.

My take, the Emperor was the size of a tall man when he first came into being, a few centuries later he would be concidered short.

MaiRousi
18-07-2006, 05:52
Well, in Horus Rising, it describes the primarchs being as big to space marines as space marines were to humans, and the emperor and was big to primarchs as primarchs were to space marines, so the emperor was a big MF.

Wazzahamma
18-07-2006, 06:56
False Gods describes him as a golden, glowing giant if I remember correctly...

Kage2020
18-07-2006, 15:11
Damn, the "serious" points have proven the tongue-in-cheek approach mentioned in this thread. What a crying, crying shame. Seems that if you are powerful, you've got to be big. Hmmn, I wonder if GW ever did a Bruce Lee game whether Bruce Lee would be translated into a 10'-tall monstrosity... :rolleyes:

Kage

Eversor
18-07-2006, 15:46
:skull: I'm with Kage on this. Point proven!
*giggle*

Lastie
18-07-2006, 23:30
But Lastie thought he'd attach his biased view on a Primarchs abilities to the joke, so that anything different to his view would also have to be considered absurd by association..

Sorry, I should have attached a ':p' to my comment. I was joking; I neither want nor believe Primarchs to have C'tan stats.

Note to self: remember emoticons!! :D

Kage2020
19-07-2006, 21:00
It is, indeed, a good thing to remember. Most of the times that I've found myself getting in trouble or having my comments misinterpreted was when I left those pesky little beggers out! :D

Kage

Kegluneq
19-07-2006, 21:26
Damn, the "serious" points have proven the tongue-in-cheek approach mentioned in this thread. What a crying, crying shame. Seems that if you are powerful, you've got to be big. Hmmn, I wonder if GW ever did a Bruce Lee game whether Bruce Lee would be translated into a 10'-tall monstrosity... :rolleyes:

Er, the idea of powerful figures being large is hardly a new idea, even the gods of the Ancient Greeks were described in a similar manner. My guess would be that Emperor simply employed his powers of psychic persuasion to convince people he wasn't as big as he really was - until the time came that he had to lead, of course.

And surely the Emperor has been physically impressive individual from the very beginning? What fluff are you adopting as truth?

Kage2020
19-07-2006, 21:34
I know about the mythological aspect. My personal approach is that it is incredibly lame in the context of the 40k universe, but there we go.

Let's not get into the "what 'fluff' are you adopting as truth" discussion. It normally leads to fairly weird posts.

Again, this is tongue-in-cheek but semi-serious. Just because it happened in mythology doesn't mean that it should appear in the 40k universe.

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
19-07-2006, 21:41
Since 40k is not really about the Primarchs (as such), I'm perfectly fine with them being mythologized and blown out of proportion.

And simultaneously poking fun at the notion. 'tis a lark! :cool:

*EDIT: Yuck. My first triple-post in years. Accursed hiccuping connection! *extra posts removed*

Kage2020
19-07-2006, 22:46
Isn't that a bit of a tenuous argument? Saying that 40k isn't about Primarchs justifies them being represented in such a cliche and poor fashion? Erm, kinda. ;)

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
19-07-2006, 23:13
I don't feel that my lack of caring justifies laxity on their part. Oh, it might encouage it (in the same way fifty years of comic book timeline often has to be folded into less than ten because some corporate characters are just That Old and have to keep pushing product)...but justify it? No. Just because the Primarchs aren't my primary area of "interest" doesn't mean GW doesn't have something of a responsibility for them. But since I'm a child of third edition, I'm not quite sure I've known any Primarchs but the current four-color superheroes (with requisite Arthurian/pre-Biblical storyline), so I'm not quite sure what else they could be without swinging it to the opposite extreme and totally robbing the "myth factor"--which is fair, I'd wager.

More "powerful" than Space Marines but...well, but what? Twenty (eighteen? ;) ) arguably unique men who succumbed to basic human failings despite their nigh-invulnerable superhero imagies. Beyond that...not many people probably care how they're represented (beyond keeping the image of their favorite primarch from being egged..."lolz, Johnson/Russ/Magnus is teh stoopid").

Sorry if that came out a bit "serious" for such a light thread. ;)

Velkyn Kyil
19-07-2006, 23:26
I remember in old Epic (back then called Space Marine), the Chaos Primarches were the size of Space Marines from 40k, whilst a regular Space Marine was.. well.. the size of a Primarch toe......

Wazzahamma
20-07-2006, 00:19
I can see where some of this discussion stems from- I remember being vaguely horrified by the description of the astartes (and consequently primarch) sizes in Horus Rising, but to his credit, Abnett made it seem horrific (in the rememberancer's eyes and those of the false Emperor). I think the "size issue" is fine as long as they remember to portray it as freakish as well as awesome.

That being said though, two questions:

* What other problems do people have with the current portrayal of Primarchs?

* How would you have preferred to have seen them? Or how did you envision them before?

Kage2020
20-07-2006, 21:28
I remember in old Epic (back then called Space Marine), the Chaos Primarches were the size of Space Marines from 40k, whilst a regular Space Marine was.. well.. the size of a Primarch toe......
Ah yes, but can one not lay that at the feet of modelling more than "reality". Indeed, that remains a continuing issue: Can you got too far with the Image?

...To continue KM's "seriousness" for a brief second.

Kage

Wazzahamma
25-07-2006, 14:23
Has anyone seen the chinese wu xia film "Hero"? The characters in that caused me think to some degree of how a Primarch might be depicted, if not huge physically powerful. After all, the assasins in the movie are able to withstand 1000 or so normal soldiers each.

In fact, the king of Qin and his whole political/philosophical outlook reminded me of the Emperor and the Imperium. Did anyone else get that from watching this film?

Commander Ozae
25-07-2006, 17:00
Yes, but you have to remember that the primarchs and space marines are mutants. Despite the Imperium's stance against mutation the SM and primarchs are engineered mutants. They have a tremendous amount of biological gear in them, 19 implants for SM, who knows how many the primarchs have. It is necessary for them to be big to have that many organs in them. Also, if you look at history, many heroes are portrayed as being very tall because in the human mind big = powerful + charismatic + authorative + kick your ass if you disagree with me.

Captain Stern
25-07-2006, 20:01
The Emperor must have been normal sized originally, or in his natural form. He was born into a human body after all. But, once he was 'in it', he must have been able to alter it's biology, shape, or whatever, using his powers, hence why he was so deliberately tall in 30k. Being taller than everyone else would significantly contribute to his aura of majesty, helping to cement his credibility as 'The Master of Mankind’ (Russ and Magnus, at least, were taller than him, but he has to draw the line somewhere!)
That's not all though. This would also explain how he was able to take on many 'different guises' throughout humanity's history. That's not to say that he needed to alter his form each and every time (after a century or so there'd be no one left to remember what he looked like) but, obviously, in the advent of photography and such, his various forms would inevitably have been recorded, making them obsolete for future use, requiring him to change his form again.

Alternatively, you could argue that he would have done all this through illusionary means, using his powers, but then how could he have traded blows with, and taken blows from, a suped up Horus if he wasn't able to alter his body to be able to do so?

That's how I've always seen it.

Colonel_Kreitz
25-07-2006, 20:20
One point, a bit more serious then what I have posted previously on this thread. The Emperor, was supposed to have worked behind the scenes for quite a while before creating the Primarchs. Rather difficult to stay in the background when you are 8+ feet tall.


The Emperor just keeps disguising himself. Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabar, Shaquille O'Neil, and now as Yao Ming. That's how he blends in, you see.

Tyron
25-07-2006, 20:31
I'm sorry guys but it sounds too silly. Spar Marines are 7ft tall, Pirmarchs where just taller then Marines so it would be 8-9ft, the Emperor being 11ft making him the size of a dreadnaught is too hard to believe.

You guys have to remember he is a man, mostlikely 6ft-6ft5. His presence described is due to his immense psychic power (and humans are tuned to the warp) so they could feel him strongly.

Commander Ozae
25-07-2006, 22:15
Yes but as was pointed out, this guy endured a huge amount of punishment from Horus. And are not the primarchs supposedly cloned sons of his, meaning they are very similar to him. The Emperor probably has a body that is the equivalent of a primarch with any added biological hardware he can think of due to his powers.

Kage2020
25-07-2006, 23:04
That would be one - for me simplistic - interpretation of the 'fluff', yes. I'm still sold by the fact that the Emperor was human.

Kage

Chainsworded Codpiece
25-07-2006, 23:16
That would be one - for me simplistic - interpretation of the 'fluff', yes. I'm still sold by the fact that the Emperor was human.
Kage

I agree.

In fact, I had always hoped that the fluff about the Primarchs (and the Emperor) would be revealed to be hyperbole in the light of day.

I have always disliked the very literal take on the Primarchs, which smacked of tribalist "big man" iconography written as real.

As far as I saw it, it ws that the Emperor, vast psyk-presence that he was, mentally LOOMED over everyone with his "astral presence". Human minds often interpreted this as a physical trait. the Primarchs had the same effect, being sons of the Emperor and natural (perhaps even reflexive) psionics themselves.

Often, they could, as I saw it, influence how humans remembered them, and their displays of power became literal, rather than figurative. thus, Sanguinious was remembered as actually having bright flaring "wings"...rather than a winglike halo of psychic blaze from his telekinetic "flying".


Sad that he really is a fellow with wings now. How...Dungeons and Dragons.:(

EDIT: by the way, I do think that they all had unnatural strength, fortitude and and all that. I think that this was due largely to their awesome (and instinctive) abilities at channeling warp energy directly through themselves to some degree. Their metabolisms worked with warp energy.

Flame Boy
25-07-2006, 23:49
If it is literally the case that larger equals more powerful in the 40k mythos, does that mean that the most important tool in a Thorian Inquisitor's arsenal is a tape measure?

Chainsworded Codpiece
25-07-2006, 23:51
That's not all though. This would also explain how he was able to take on many 'different guises' throughout humanity's history. That's not to say that he needed to alter his form each and every time (after a century or so there'd be no one left to remember what he looked like) but, obviously, in the advent of photography and such, his various forms would inevitably have been recorded, making them obsolete for future use, requiring him to change his form again.
Alternatively, you could argue that he would have done all this through illusionary means, using his powers, but then how could he have traded blows with, and taken blows from, a suped up Horus if he wasn't able to alter his body to be able to do so?That's how I've always seen it.

Hmmmm...there's something to this idea. Yes. It sounds..."40K plausible".

I would argue that he often did not have to alter his mass or volume or density to whoop ass on anybody. the kinetic force he could channel naturally was likely instinctively augmented by warp-induced "force" as well. His fists were always on "Hammerhand", for instance.

But I think it's very possible that he could alter his metabolism freely (though perhaps slowly) in order to induce gigantism in himself. He probably was, for some parts of his life, an enormous being. There were times when he may have had to be...

Needless to say, his being thought "Huge" like an giant when he was merely 7'9'' like a freakish "giant human" was a result of his constant psychic charisma-leak. He was always the Biggest, Smartest, greatest, Most Capable and Self-Assured Man anyone had ever met. Sometimes, when he wanted it to, this took on mythic proportions.

Kage2020
25-07-2006, 23:51
If it is literally the case that larger equals more powerful in the 40k mythos, does that mean that the most important tool in a Thorian Inquisitor's arsenal is a tape measure?
LOL. That's probably true. And a five year old to point out the sigils of Chaos Powers inscribed into the foreheads of the arch-nemesis Chaos Sorcerers that still seem to allude the Inquisition! ;)

Kage

IJW
26-07-2006, 00:05
I remember in old Epic (back then called Space Marine), the Chaos Primarches were the size of Space Marines from 40k, whilst a regular Space Marine was.. well.. the size of a Primarch toe......
Don't forget that those primarchs were the equivalent of Greater Deamons - and that's Forgeworld ones, not GW ones...

Kage2020
26-07-2006, 00:13
Okay, so the "art" is not necessarily realiable or, at least, the miniatures. Too many "Rule of Cool" factors?

Kage

Captain Stern
26-07-2006, 01:44
Hmmmm...there's something to this idea. Yes. It sounds..."40K plausible".

I would argue that he often did not have to alter his mass or volume or density to whoop ass on anybody. the kinetic force he could channel naturally was likely instinctively augmented by warp-induced "force" as well. His fists were always on "Hammerhand", for instance.

But I think it's very possible that he could alter his metabolism freely (though perhaps slowly) in order to induce gigantism in himself. He probably was, for some parts of his life, an enormous being. There were times when he may have had to be...

Needless to say, his being thought "Huge" like an giant when he was merely 7'9'' like a freakish "giant human" was a result of his constant psychic charisma-leak. He was always the Biggest, Smartest, greatest, Most Capable and Self-Assured Man anyone had ever met. Sometimes, when he wanted it to, this took on mythic proportions.

I pretty much concur.


I would argue that he often did not have to alter his mass or volume or density to whoop ass on anybody. the kinetic force he could channel naturally was likely instinctively augmented by warp-induced "force" as well. His fists were always on "Hammerhand", for instance.

I agree. I think I said something similar in a thread a few months ago. I must add though that I don't think using the warp to boost strength, constitution and what have you is exclusive to the Emperor. In the 2nd edition 40k game, weren't psykers able to augment their strength score depending on their psychic mastery? For example a lexicanium would be able to add 1 to his strength, while a chief librarian could add 4 e.t.c.

The Lost and the Damned seems to coroborate this, at least for the primarchs anyway: "The energy of the uncorrupted warp would flow through them (the primarchs) as it flowed through the Emperor himself, invigorating them and conferring special powers such as were possessed by the shamans of old."

Captain Stern
26-07-2006, 01:58
I think the Emperor had a purpose in making the primarchs gargantuan in size. Since the Primarchs were designed to be the greatest leaders humanity had ever seen, for them to be the absolute ultimate of leaders, not only would they have to be the most physically and psykicly powerful, most intelligent, most beautiful, and most charismatic beings they'd ever witnessed, they would also have to be the largest too, to exploit humanity's primordial instinct, however well buried over time, to follow the largest member of the pack (since he was often the strongest). It might not have been absolutely necessary for the Emperor to do this but, when so much was at stake, and if it wasn't going to do any harm, then why not make them big too? And that's what he did.

Chainsworded Codpiece
26-07-2006, 03:30
I think the Emperor had a purpose in making the primarchs gargantuan in size. Since the Primarchs were designed to be the greatest leaders humanity had ever seen, for them to be the absolute ultimate of leaders, not only would they have to be the most physically and psykicly powerful, most intelligent, most beautiful, and most charismatic beings they'd ever witnessed, they would also have to be the largest too, to exploit humanity's primordial instinct, however well buried over time, to follow the largest member of the pack (since he was often the strongest).

And that's what he did.

Yeah, but I just don't see them as being AS HUGE as they are implied to be. I actually (and I know everyone's going to hate me for this) used to see them as being acouple inches higher/wider than the (current) marines themselves. That's dreadfully imposing physically.

I want to believe they were seen and remembered as being gigantic, even by fellow Astartes, because of the imposing psychic aura they gave off.

They gave an "impression" of being the hugest dude in the hemisphere, even though their exact physical size might not have been as big as they seemed.

Even psychics might be fooled by this. The Astartes are renowned for being mythical giants. the Primarchs are the pre-eminent mythical giants, amongst the giants themselves. So even a relatively powerful psyker likely might not look beneath the imposing "aura" being thrown off by a Primarch. Even if they tried, they might not be able to counteract it, as it's so inherent in Joe Hominid to "see" the Primarch the way he does.

But again, fluff rules me wrong. Sigh.

EDIT: I don't know why I have such an instinctive opposition to the fantastic element that the Primarchs' fluff has. And to be up front, that's what it is. Just a bias, that I try to make plausible with alter-fluff. Sorry if it irks, and it's not meant to replace correct fluff.

Commander Ozae
26-07-2006, 13:58
No, you bring up a good point. The primarchs must have been huge that is true but like many things it is probably exaggerated. Almost all the legends about the primarchs and the Heresy are grossly exaggerated so it only makes sense if the primarchs aren't as big as we think. But they still would have had trouble fitting through a normal sized door.

Lastie
26-07-2006, 17:27
I've always believed that current fluff writes from the perspective of one looking back through the biased viels of history at an event he/she did not experience for themselves. History warps facts, this has been proven time and time again, and, to quote a popular saying, history is often written by the winners. It's not hard to belief that the mythology of the Primarchs would be exaggerated enormously in the millennia succeeding their disappearances from the galactic stage. What started out as being figuratively 'giants amongst men' gradually became literally giants amongst men.

Suicide Messiah
26-07-2006, 17:52
Having more powerful people the biggest is fine. As many have said its only human to respect the biggest guy. The problem is that when GW makes someone bigger its by like 2 feet. Im 5'11'' and if i stand nexst to a guy whose say 6'2'' im think damn that guys big. If an SM is 8'' then a primarch (baring Russ and Magnus) would be about 8'3'', 8'4''. Not 10'!

Kage2020
26-07-2006, 18:48
I'm afraid I'm with Pratchett on Rule One with regards to size...

Kage

Tyron
26-07-2006, 19:56
In Rise of Horus Dorn places his hands on Lokan's shoulders before he leaves (when they talk in the room). For him to do that he had to be atleast 2ft taler makign them 9ft tall, though is could be 10ft which would be the highest height for a Primarch ever.

Khaine's Messenger
26-07-2006, 20:06
I'm not really sold on the idea that being able to place hands on someone's shoulders is evidence of being of a superior height. Is there anything in the passage that suggests it more directly?

PS: I don't know about the rest of you, but I think Malcador the Sigillite could take on the Primarchs. ;) He's an honorary Rule One guy....

Tyron
26-07-2006, 20:38
Dorn turned from the armoured port and looked down at Lokan. He placed his great hands gently on Lokan's shoulder.

Horus Rising, page 136 half way down.

Khaine's Messenger
26-07-2006, 20:39
That doesn't imply a difference of two feet, though. I can look down on my father as well as place my hand on his shoulder, and he's only an inch or two shorter than me.

Tyron
26-07-2006, 20:49
No because what someone the same height would hold their forearms. The above suggests being atleast 2ft taller, not allowing him to do so, hus he places his hands on Lokan's shoulder at a 45 dagree arch.

Commander Ozae
26-07-2006, 20:57
In Horus rising Loken is sitting on a stool and Horus is kneeling and they are the same height if that helps anyone.

Lastie
26-07-2006, 21:03
In Horus rising Loken is sitting on a stool and Horus is kneeling and they are the same height if that helps anyone.

That wouldn't indicate much of a height difference.

I'm with Suicide Messiah on this. The Primarchs were definitely taller than normal Space Marines, but I doubt by more than a foot at the most.

Tyron
26-07-2006, 21:22
Ok guys, i just measured myself and my brother. Im 5ft7 he is 5ft11. He could place his hands on my shoulders if he streched out his arms at full length. Also i sate down on a chair and he sat on his knees, he was looking down on me.

Kage2020
26-07-2006, 21:52
And, of course, back in the day the Marines were immortal, the grass was greener, and large green aliens from Mars were real large green aliens from Mars. ;) :rolleyes:

Kage