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Musa
17-07-2006, 01:36
Ok, I've had a strange itching to build a new 40K army that can actually play the role of the Good Guy in the 40K universe. (Using today's norms and traditional views of Right and Wrong)..

Let's use the X-Y axis usually used in RPG's and such to classify Ethical Extremes. On one axis, you have Lawful and Chaotic, on the other, you have Good and Evil...

the Extremes are Lawful Good, Chaotic good, Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil.

The current imperium is not a "good" place. between High Bureaucracy, ignorance of progression, and basically a huge dictatorship, the current Imperium is not a fun place to be. Basically Lawful Evil (They believe that what they are doing is correct, but according to our views, they are causing atrocities left and right and are Evil.)

Eldar are selfish beings only interested in how things can work better for themselves, and not thinking about others. They would easily destroy 4 planets (and the subsequent billions of lives lost) if it meant the survival of ONE craftworld.

Necrons, Dark Eldar and Chaos are evil. Period. Necrons are Lawful Evil (They believe they (or their C'tan masters) should run the universe, so they are somewhat Tyrannical) and D. Eldar are Chaotic Evil (Just Freaking Crazy evil). Chaos is fairly Neutral in the Law / Chaos Axis, but is definitely Evil, How lawful or how Chaotic it is is dependant on the God, the group or some other descriptor.

Tyranids are netural on Both axis', I don't believe that they have a sense of right and wrong and more or less go on Basic Urges for the Specie's Survival. food and Bio-mass is necessary for the speicie's continued existence, therefore it gathers food and bio-matter without care for Right or wrong. Maybe Lawful Neutral Considering how their "Hive mind" is set up with a specific Hierarchy and such.

Orks are (I belive) Chaotic Neutral. Neutral on the good/evil axis. I don't think that they have an idea of good and evil since they fight because they are bred to. Maybe they're just misunderstood.

Tau are more or less THE extreme of Lawful Good. A heirarchical and Tight social structure lends to the Lawful aspect, while their Idea of a Greater Good and a united universe under the Tau banner lead to a Good Aspect, it is their idea of "if you don't join us, you're against us and we'll blast you to bits" that keeps them from the running as the Good guys in the 40k universe.

What I'm looking for is something that can translate as the "Chaotic Good" or Not nearly as Lawful good... but somewhere on the good side fo the axis and the closer to being Neutral on the Law / Chaos axis as possible.

Is there something?

nurgleman
17-07-2006, 01:52
Squats would have probably fallen best under that category, too bad they all got eaten up by tyranids even the ones dispersed throughout the empire.

Kandarin
17-07-2006, 02:02
The way the fluff is set up, Imperials, Eldar, and Tau are less "evil" than "morally ambiguous". Their societies contain both extremes of good and evil. Therefore, individual Imperials, Eldar or Tau may be either truly good or truly evil, or anything in between. If you say your army (if it is one of these) is Good, it's workable in the fluff. They might be at odds with the other regiments/chapters/craftworlds/septs who prefer a more bloodthirsty approach, but it is workable.

Kage2020
17-07-2006, 02:52
"Traditional views of right and wrong"? Whose tradition? And we're using D&D conventions for a particular reason?

If you do go with the limited scope then the only Chaotic Evil is, well, Chaos. Obviously. Everyone else is "other". Anything beyond that is a value judgement, hence I disagree with much of the original post.

Kage

Musa
17-07-2006, 03:47
"Traditional views of right and wrong"? Whose tradition? And we're using D&D conventions for a particular reason?


I'm using them as examples. I'm not asking for a specific view of right and wrong. Just your basic everyday GENERIC Moral criteria. I'm sure everyone has those.



If you do go with the limited scope then the only Chaotic Evil is, well, Chaos. Obviously.


Actually, I disagree. I think that the only thing that is acutally Chaotic evil is Dark Eldar. Chaos is really just the entire EVIL side of the Axis.


Everyone else is "other". Anything beyond that is a value judgement, hence I disagree with much of the original post.

Kage

Yeah... and i'm looking for a value judgment. I'm wondering what other people thought. That's the point of a discussion.

devolutionary
17-07-2006, 04:29
Dark Eldar are hardly evil. In their mind they are the good guys. This is much the same as the Orks, Eldar, Nids, etc... Necrons even more so. They follow manifest Gods who just happen to be in a war. Are they evil? No, to themselves they are utterly justified and correct.

Only Chaos has specific groups that do things because they are wrong, and even then, not all of chaos is about being evil. There are no doubt Chaos followers who are Chaotic Good (to use your D&D view), because that is what Chaos is. Of course, it's wouldn't be the same if the Alpha Legion stealthed in to a village to randomly paint their houses bright orange, but hey, it's possible. Chaos is Chaos, it's not evil or good, it just is.

Outlaw289
17-07-2006, 04:38
Why is Eldar selfishness a bad thing? I'd blow up 4 planets too if one of my fellow Eldar was going to die.

Fir Lirithion
17-07-2006, 05:39
Dark Eldar are hardly evil. In their mind they are the good guys. This is much the same as the Orks, Eldar, Nids, etc... Necrons even more so. They follow manifest Gods who just happen to be in a war. Are they evil? No, to themselves they are utterly justified and correct.

Only Chaos has specific groups that do things because they are wrong, and even then, not all of chaos is about being evil. There are no doubt Chaos followers who are Chaotic Good (to use your D&D view), because that is what Chaos is. Of course, it's wouldn't be the same if the Alpha Legion stealthed in to a village to randomly paint their houses bright orange, but hey, it's possible. Chaos is Chaos, it's not evil or good, it just is.


Wait. To use the D&D view, it means the Good & Evil is from a, erm, Judeo-Christian perspective of Good & Evil, for lack of a better term.

Therefore Chaos would be Chaotic/Neutral/Lawful Evil.

Though I think Tau should be Lawful Neutral. And Nids be Chaotic Neutral. And Squats, since they are greedy, i would think are Lawful Neutral.

Not a bad grasp of D&D from someone who's only played IW2 and NWN eh? :D

Khaine's Messenger
17-07-2006, 05:42
Dark Eldar are hardly evil. In their mind they are the good guys.

Which is the crux of the core DnD alignment system...what you believe about yourself can be utterly irrelevant--if you regularly perform a certain set of deeds that marks you as a certain alignment, you are qualified for that alignment. End of discussion. It's a game mechanic, and meant to set a benchmark "standard." If you're a baby-eater or have no respect for the lives of others*, you're evil. Even if you worship a purportedly "Lawful Good" god (say, the Silver Flame from Eberron), if you commit mass genocide in His name, you are Evil...which is why a lot of non-core settings fudge the alignment mechanics--many things in DnD are derivative from your alignment, starting with the class in which you are advancing, and to many people this is a major inconvenience to how certain settings (such as Eberron) operate with more of a dubious air.

That said, I'm not a fan of using the DnD system regarding alignment at all. d20 Modern doesn't bother using it either--although you can possess an "allegiance" to Good, it's not necessary, and what's more, you can choose to rank your "allegiances"--so you can put "good" dead last, but still have it on your list. I'm not much a fan of making morality a game mechanic, but there we are.

However, I can see the point of the OP--trying to find a society or group in 40k that a modern person might consider "good." And I don't think you will, if only because GW has taken pains to paint the entire setting in a very bleak light. Yes, you'll run into plenty of people on whom "detect good/chaos" will light up like a Christmas tree, of course, but discerning a Chaotic Good organization would be a lost cause, in my opinion. Not because "everyone's evil," but because on the vast scales we're talking about, there are institutional problems with a Chaotic Good outlook.

*Depending on the setting, this may even go straight down the the mass-slaughter of those who show up black as midnight on a quick "detect evil" scan, such as various flavor of Cromatic Dragon in standard D&D.

Adept
17-07-2006, 06:01
Just your basic everyday GENERIC Moral criteria. I'm sure everyone has those.

No, they don't. And GW hasn't forced that kind of stereotype onto 40K, which tends to make it much more interesting than some of the more obvious sci-fi galaxies, ala Star Wars or Star Trek.

As Khaine's Messsenger outlined above, the DnD criteria for good and evil are based around arbitrarily selected actions. If you do X, you are evil, if you do Y, you are good. Basically, it's not that simple. If you exterminatus a planet, you would be evil by DnD standards, and probably by todays standards. In the 40K universe, it's an acceptable loss in certain circumstances.

Good and evil are just adjectives we use to catalogue the world around us. And like 'nice' 'beautiful' 'ugly' and 'awful' they are different for everyone.

The Tau would be the closest thing to a 'good' race by modern, western societal standards. But only because they would rather subjugate humans and force them to work in a caste system, than simply torture them for fun like the Dark Eldar. The best of a bad bunch, rather than actually being 'good'.

cailus
17-07-2006, 06:16
And Chaos as evil seems stupidly simplistic.

Chaos is a religion. You believe in the gods of Chaos and also believe that you can gain their favour much like people pray to Allah, God, the Hindu gods or once did to Zeus and his lot in the hope that the god(s) shall look upon them.

However GW in a bid to turn the universe into Moronhammer 40,000 never expanded on Chaos and then turned into a a simple and idiotic notion, with each of the gods a one-sided baffoon.

For example, Khorne is meant to reflect marital pride and honour, but modern fluff shows followers of Khorne as purely obsessed with murder. A Khorne Berzerker is a murderer and does not reflect any martial pride whatsoever.

Or Slaneesh being associated purely with sex or Tzeentch purely with magic or Nurgle purely with decay.

These are simplifications designed to appeal to young children who only have a concept of right and wrong, and not one of the "greyness" of the world.

Chaos is a violent religion but then all religions generally are (not all but most for those of you who see everything as an absolute).

But anyhow if Chaos was as simple as murder, sex, magic and disease then it would not have any appeal to anyone but the most single minded of people.

Adept
17-07-2006, 06:24
But anyhow if Chaos was as simple as murder, sex, magic and disease then it would not have any appeal to anyone but the most single minded of people.

You know, I never understood exactly how anyone could decide to worship Nurgle. Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeentch are all fairly easy to understand. They represent different goals, and ways to get ahead. But who wakes up and thinks "Hmm. Boils, pustules and plague? Gotta get me some of that!"

Outlaw289
17-07-2006, 06:34
I read somewhere that Nurgle grants immortality. People wish for immortality or longevity, but little realize that permanent decrepideness is the price

but still, lol @ "boils n puss"

Damien 1427
17-07-2006, 07:03
You know, I never understood exactly how anyone could decide to worship Nurgle. Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeentch are all fairly easy to understand. They represent different goals, and ways to get ahead. But who wakes up and thinks "Hmm. Boils, pustules and plague? Gotta get me some of that!"

I recall a short story in White Dwarf (Those were the days...) around the time the latest incarnation of Hordes of Chaos in Fantasy was released, one each month based on a particular god. The Nurgle one went on to say that a village, infected with plague, called out to any god that would listen to grant them relief from their suffering. Nurgle listened, and did so. By infecting them with so many diseases they couldn't actually feel anything anymore. It's an act of desperation, but in a perfect world you wouldn't need to feel the urge to kill anything, find more extreme sensations, or need to manipulate things for your own benefit.

Adept
17-07-2006, 07:18
The Nurgle one went on to say that a village, infected with plague, called out to any god that would listen to grant them relief from their suffering. Nurgle listened, and did so. By infecting them with so many diseases they couldn't actually feel anything anymore.

I can see that, but it doesn't seem to mesh with my understanding of Chaos cults. I can see how a group of soldiers/warriors who want more power/luck/skill/whatever could be convinced to start worshipping Khorne. Attending rituals and ceremonies, making sacrifices, and so on.

A group of villagers randomly calling out to have their suffering relieved, without offering anything first, doesn't seem like a good way to gather followers. It's easy to see what goes on the 'recruitment posters' for Khorne, Slaanesh and Tzeentch. And I can see how people could be 'tricked' into serving Nurgle, but I can't for the life of me figure out what Nurgle offers to people to gain their worship. Especially when, in the story from WD, Shallya is just as likely to respond by just removing all the diseases and making everyone healthy again.

Chem-Dog
17-07-2006, 09:20
The thing with Chaos gods specifically is the way they go recruiting devotees, they don't go door knocking or have charity fundraisers (Imagine a Khornate Jumble sale :eek:) they cause people to have a problem and then pretend to be the redemption, ultimately the issue is choice and chaos would try to blind you to certain choices and make others more acceptable, read False Gods for probably the best example of that.

40K's back story has always been an issue of bias and impression, very few of the races/armies in 40K can be classified as "evil".

The Imperium is a totalitarian regime, life is harsh for most but the continued existance of the species requires such rigid control. If a country's troops perform war crimes or some gross violation of human rights, does this make the country the troops are from evil?
Most acts of evil stem down to an individual (either in action or by order) our own history has shown us this time and time again.

Adept
17-07-2006, 10:47
The Imperium is a totalitarian regime

Actually, I tend to view it as a psychopathic libertarian regime. The Imperium doesn't regulate the lives of individuals except in very rare circumstances, rather letting the planetary governors rule as they see fit. Every now and then, the Inquisition or some other Imperial organisation will wipe out an entire planet, or set up death camps for entire populations.

The Imperium doesn't usually care what people do. But if they do start caring, you better worry.

Chem-Dog
17-07-2006, 11:26
I see what you mean, but there are many instances (if not actual accounts it's definitely suggested as a common occurence) where Imperial troops of one type or another will open fire on un-armed civilians for little more than to disperse a crowd.

There are many different controls too, lots of organisations and many people willing to report you.

Crazy Tom
17-07-2006, 11:30
We can only define evil in relation to ourselves and our sociological upbringing. So from our perspective, the Necrons are evil, the Dark Eldar are evil, Chaos are evil and the Tyranids are merely animals, no more capable of evil than a dog. When technically the Ctan and the Necrons are merely hungry.

Btw, Chaos are definitely evil because they represent man versus himself - i.e. our positive, constructive natures versus our negative destructive natures.

If I went out and ate a child, you'd say I was evil. If I could think rationally and displayed no adverse mental characteristics (other than the fact that I ate this child) then I'd be evil.

If a dog went out and ate the child, we'd say the dog was wrong in the head and we'd put it down. We wouldn't accuse the dog of being evil. It's just an animal.

But if we lived in a barbaric society where everyone ate children and we all went out on a child-eating spree, it wouldn't be evil. It'd only become evil if someone from a normal society entered ours and denounced it.

Anyhow, this whole thing is moot because you're attempting to apply to WH40K concepts which require an overarching authority, when in fact none exist.

If the Old Ones ran the show then things would be a bit simpler. Then we'd have a defined structure of right and wrong, against which these alignments could be made.

Mother_Mercy
17-07-2006, 12:52
First, as for the whole "Who would worship Nurgle"-thing: Nurgle is also, if one studies the background, the god of stubbornness, defiance and resistance to change. Imperial Citizen Bob does not go from normal person to bloated, plague-ridden cultist in one go. He might cling to a decaying past, and form a cult around that. The decay will not be a goal in it self, but will sooner or later become a consequence of the cult's activities and a part of the thing they worship.

Back on topic.
Yes, most races in 40K are good from their own perspectives, and many atrocities can be defended in the name of racial survival. That does not make it "Good". Destroying a planet with billions of inhabitants is never a nice thing to do, no matter the reasons. Neither is torturing people until they go insane, for that matter. None of the races in 40K are very nice, perhaps with the exclusion of the Tau, who are at least acceptable.

Let us define "the Good Guys" as a faction who strives for a world where everyone lives in peace and harmony, where there is no starvation, slavery or war, who respects the lives and opinions of others, and generally are the kind of people we wish humans were.

A society like this might very well exist in some break-away human realm, among some Eldar Exodites or among some of the lesser Xenos races that inhabit the galaxy. Unfortunately, such a society would not survive long against the oppressive forces at work in the galaxy unless it was powerful enough to ward them off or too small to be noticed.

And if this faction is to be powerful enough, you'd have to somehow force them into the 40K universe among such players as the Imperium, the Nids and the Orks and claim that they were there all along ( la C'tan). Otherwise they would have to be small enough and still strong enough to not make it worth the trouble ( la Tau).

Sai-Lauren
17-07-2006, 14:22
I think that's the point of the 40k universe - there are no universal "good guys" - only points of view, and that in the end is all that counts - history is written by the winners, eveything they do is justified, and the losers automatically become the bad guys.


Let us define "the Good Guys" as a faction who strives for a world where everyone lives in peace and harmony, where there is no starvation, slavery or war, who respects the lives and opinions of others, and generally are the kind of people we wish humans were.
If that's your criteria, Eldar Exodites and Tau are probably the closest.

And they're both a long way off that kind of thing - what you've descibed is basically Star Trek's Federation. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's not really what the 40k universe is all about.

Son of the Lion
17-07-2006, 15:14
There are no good guys in 40k, that's the cool thing about it. Everybody's got some kind of agenda. If you're going from the race's point of view, it's probably the Exodies, since they have the only plan that doesn't involve kicking in other factions to achieve their goals. ie Living in peace away from the rest of the galaxy....

Jedi152
17-07-2006, 15:17
Why does everything have to be pidgeonholed into good/neutral/evil? Why can't they just 'be'?

nurgleman
17-07-2006, 15:26
oh no, this is just going to turn into another philospical debate about how even though the people know they are causing great harm with no purpose but to cause it but because they don't think they are evil, aren't evil.

Son of the Lion
17-07-2006, 15:26
Exodites not exodies. Fool. :D

Like I said, there is no good and evil, just points of view. So asking for a concensus on what a good guy force would be is pointless, unless you're just trying to start a row (hey, they're always fun!).

Kage2020
17-07-2006, 23:12
Just your basic everyday GENERIC Moral criteria. I'm sure everyone has those.
I'm arguably an anthropologist and so am broadly aware of the limitations in this type of argument. It basically comes down to adopted and imbedded culture/ideology. Therefore asking for something generic is a bit on the silly side, for me anway. Whatever twiddles your biscuit, though.


Actually, I disagree. I think that the only thing that is acutally Chaotic evil is Dark Eldar. Chaos is really just the entire EVIL side of the Axis.
If you're making "generic moral assumptions", perhaps. That's too flawed a premise, for me, since it is inherently myopic. The only "absolute evil" by the 40k set up, as in the stated intent of the concept, is Chaos. 'Nuff said.


Yeah... and i'm looking for a value judgment. I'm wondering what other people thought. That's the point of a discussion.
Ah, another "who is more evil or good" thread. Sorry, though it would be a bit more...

/Kage

cailus
17-07-2006, 23:24
Btw, Chaos are definitely evil because they represent man versus himself - i.e. our positive, constructive natures versus our negative destructive natures.

It's funny you say that because Tzeentch represents the rather neutral phenomenon of change. Change is never universally perceived as good or as bad. It depends on personal circumstance and how the person is affected by change.

In fact all the gods represent "neutral" concepts. Slaaneesh could also represent love. Love is something that makes a person almost obsessed with the other ("the honeymoon period"). Slaanesh also represents desire as a whole and this is not a bad thing in itself. Nurgle as someone mentioned represents a resistance to change while Khorne could represent discipline and adhering to a strict path.

Minister
17-07-2006, 23:28
It was my intent to answer with some unequivocal quote about the Imperium being good, or at least right, and thus declare everyone else wrong. Unfortunatley, the only one I can find with the word "good" in it is on Runic Space Flight ("If the second rune is not good, a third rune may be struck in a manner like unto the first."). The closest I can find is comment on Light and Righteousness.

Says something about the universe, doesn't it?

Phunting
17-07-2006, 23:41
It's funny you say that because Tzeentch represents the rather neutral phenomenon of change. Change is never universally perceived as good or as bad. It depends on personal circumstance and how the person is affected by change.This is what I always liked about Tzeentch that has never been expanded upon as much as it could/should be. Tzeentch is about change, and that isn't just about overthrowing the government and creating mutation. It's about innovation and inspiration. I've no doubt Tzeentch cultists have been behind all sorts of medical, technological and social inventions that has benefited mankind. On a diseased world the cultists are the ones hunting for a cure, on a death world the cultists are fighting to maintain human dominance over the beasts, on a lawless world the cultists are helping the forces of order establish peace.

Of course if they achieve it, then they are also the ones trying to bring it down again! But the point is by our C21st morality chaos in general, and Tzeentch in particular, is not necessarily 'evil'.

Zzarchov
18-07-2006, 00:38
Chaos is not equal to evil, or shouldn't be. It was chaos..sure utter randomness. People grow horns not because they are demons but because its random, its like being stuck in the Heart of Golds Improbability drive for all time. To simplify things though, they have been streamlining it down to "Good guy paladins VS Evil Demons", because thats easier to market to pre-teens than a complicated set of ideals about the conflicts of Freedom and Anarchy VS Authority and Responsibility and the horrors they each cause in extremes.

Minister
18-07-2006, 00:52
Chaos is embracing the dark extremes of the emotions they embody. Slannesh is not a god of enjoyment, but of hedonism beyond all restraint. Khorne is not a god of martial pride and honour, but one of devotion to bloodshed and killing for its own sake. Tzeentch embodies not growth and progress, but change and mutation for its own sake. Nurgle embodies not enduring and surviving, but decay as an art form.

Chaos within 40K is not the same as Chaotic in D&D and the ilk, the Dark Gods really are remarkably unpleasant, and have always been so. The trick is in their followers, who are not always simply two-dimensional power mad nutters or brainwashed cultists, but are often seekers of something greater who are drawn to the darker sides of their path.

Outlaw289
18-07-2006, 03:25
Actually, I tend to view it as a psychopathic libertarian regime. The Imperium doesn't regulate the lives of individuals except in very rare circumstances, rather letting the planetary governors rule as they see fit. Every now and then, the Inquisition or some other Imperial organisation will wipe out an entire planet, or set up death camps for entire populations.

The Imperium doesn't usually care what people do. But if they do start caring, you better worry.

What is Libertarian about Tithes, Religious Fundamentalism, Conscription, and Secret Police? :wtf:

BodhiTree
18-07-2006, 04:21
Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I find it a little funny that the Imperium hasn't tried anything like Orwellian newspeak to cut down on all that heresy going around. ...Unless I missed something.

Outlaw289
18-07-2006, 05:06
Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but I find it a little funny that the Imperium hasn't tried anything like Orwellian newspeak to cut down on all that heresy going around. ...Unless I missed something.

I figured religious sayings was the Imperial Newspeak :o

Adept
18-07-2006, 08:55
What is Libertarian about Tithes

Tithes are a problem for the Governor, not the citizens.


Religious Fundamentalism

The administratum doesn't come into your homes and make you worship the Emperor. In fact, if I remember my fluff correctly worship of the Emperor isn't even mandated, simply encouraged. From the Fluff Bible:

"This deification of the Emperor is not officially recognised but is accepted and even encouraged within the Adeptus Terra."


Conscription

Every world has it's own recruitment method. The point is, the Administratum doesn't care how they get the soldiers.


Secret Police? :wtf:

Arbites are hardly secret, and Inquisitors are so few and far between they may as well not exist, for the average civilian.

Again from the Fluff Bible:

"Planetary Administration lies in the hands of governors called Imperial Commanders - a title which corresponds roughly to the term 'Lord'. The Commander is appointed by the Administratum to oversee a planet or, more rarely, a continent or a special project of some kind. The position is often regarded as an hereditary one, associated with an ancient title (Duke of Calaco, Baron of Ymgarl, Lord of Lambs World, etc). Although duty-bound to the priesthood, the Commander is essentially an independent governor, and so long as his taxes come through, his quotas are met and his planet kept in order, he is free to run things in any manner he chooses. Commanders can recruit and maintain their own armies and inter-planetary fleets, and may even be permitted access to interstellar spacecraft."

It's hard to call the Administratum totalitarian when they are willing to let governors run their planets largely as they please. The government of the Imperium of Man is too large and slow moving to worry about the activities of single people, or even single planets, so long as everything is running to schedule.

However, when they do take notice, they're happy to exterminate entire planets with extreme prejudice. They don't have many rules, but if you get caught breaking them, you're in deep ****.

Iracundus
18-07-2006, 13:27
While the Administratum may not officially care how a planetary governor runs his planet, I don't believe the Imperium would impose anything other than heavy tithe requirements in line with the world's possible production and resources. Such stiff quotas may indirectly encourage governors to rule their subjects harshly (by modern standards) else risk failing to meet their dues.

Khas
18-07-2006, 13:50
The Warhammer 40k universe is hard to divide up into so stark lines of good or evil, I honestly think that doing so will only diminish it as a whole, rather than add something to it.

The universe is full of distinct alien races and warp entities, all fighting for survival of their species, morality doesnt come into it, either you do what is neccesary for your race's survival or you become a page in a dusty historybook on someone's shelf.

I was going to say much more about this topic, but I think I have already made my point.

Tooooon
18-07-2006, 14:14
A mercenary LATD force could be classed as good. Just have to work around the fluff to explain that perhaps they summon demon's to fight for good....?

Would that be plausable perhaps?

Adept
18-07-2006, 14:14
While the Administratum may not officially care how a planetary governor runs his planet, I don't believe the Imperium would impose anything other than heavy tithe requirements in line with the world's possible production and resources. Such stiff quotas may indirectly encourage governors to rule their subjects harshly (by modern standards) else risk failing to meet their dues.

Cant argue with that.

Helicon_One
18-07-2006, 18:41
I'll skip the philosophical discussion above (not that it isn't interesting, so carry on guys...), and go straight to the original post...

As was mentioned earlier, Squats would be a good way to go for a more-or-less 'Good Guys' force (and doable with certain proxy lists). The problem you might run into is that good guys often aren't hugely interesting. I went this way with the old favourite 'anti-Imperialist rebels from the Eastern Fringe' army, but I've ended up ret-conning my fluff for them so they're not so unambiguously nice as I originally had them. Good luck if you try it though.

Tim