PDA

View Full Version : The Inquisition War



Inquisitor Engel
28-03-2005, 23:42
I picked up the Inquisition War omnibus a couple of weeks ago and have since been reading quite vigourously, and am now about half way through 'Chaos Child.'

This is easily the greatest peice of Background I've ever read. It goes so deep, remains so ambiguous and yet so compelling. I'll avoid spoilers, but just post a couple of points to start the commentary. :)


Grimm. I thought I'd hate the Squat. He's an endearing little chap, and his mannerisms and the little bits of Squat fluff that get thrown in there. There are parts of it that MAY well have worked. As a single character, as the member of an Inquisitor's retinue, a Squat works. :)
Captain Lexandro d'Arquebus. Best. Loyal Marine. Ever. A short story about him "ending his crusade" upon the Fortress monestary would just be fun. He could still well be alive, due to the Crossroads of Internia, warp travel, et al. If I ever start a Fists army...
Speaking of the Crossroads. The descriptions of both the Warp, and the Webway, and the Eldar, are all superb. There's a couple of bits that don't quite fit, but are nice nonetheless. I can see some of the "darkness" of the Eldar plans and their callous disregard for other life making it into the next Codex.
The Illuminati, the Hydra and the Sensei. Where are they now? ;) Who knows? The beauty of it is that it's currently not confirmed or denied, which makes it wonderful.

Discuss. :)

Thousandth Son
29-03-2005, 02:38
I agree whole heartedly. It has a certain "umph" that some of the newer novels lack. I personally like the appearance of the a certain Pheonix Lord. :eek:

Khaine's Messenger
29-03-2005, 04:17
This is easily the greatest peice of Background I've ever read.

...eh. At best, it's a whirlwind tour of 40k. The plot is slaved to this. Even near the beginning of the second book ("The Inquisition War had begun!") isn't capitalized upon. There is no Inquisition War...just a blitzkrieg of concepts, ideas, imagery, etc. As one of the few series to directly involve the Emperor, I'd give it a fairly good review in regards to those factors, but it doesn't make for good storytelling beyond the first book. At all.

Sgt John Keel
29-03-2005, 18:51
Agreed. The book it titled the Inqusition War, but mentions none of it except a few sentences.

Additionally, the first gives us lots of plot storylines, but just leaves them there. Instead we get to follow Jaq on a futile quest for love. He was going to the Black Library, but uses it for nothing. The Ordo Hydra plotline is just left hanging. What happened to the Eldar?

The books provide us with questions, questions, but answers none. It would be an excellent opportunity to tie these ends up in an aftermaths book, but I guess that is not to be.

/Adrian

Inquisitor Engel
29-03-2005, 19:19
The books provide us with questions, questions, but answers none.
That's what I like so much. 40k is nothing but questions, and we all know that the Hydra won't be able to do anything for generations, making it a convenient, if rather over-reaching, plot point in future.

It seems like Jaq wanted to stop the Hydra through being Illuminated, and by being able to prove it. He viewed the Black Library as the key to his Illumination, not wishing to be helped by the Eldar, as had Carnelian, who he thinks he was used by, and who he hates for 'tainting' Meh'lindi.

When Meh'Lindi died, Jaq decided that what he learned in his quest to become Illuminated (Namely the Crossroads of Inertia) could be used to bring Meh'lindi back to life. That became his quest.

Anyway, I'm not quite at the end yet, but will be soon. :)

lord_fenric
30-03-2005, 15:34
But, the title Inquisition war is a recent addition to the novels, since the origional titles (Inquisitor, harleqion and chaos child) were scrapped (probably to avoid confusion). Therefore the title in itslef is misleading.

In terms of actual novels they are far above the majority of what is published by the BL but they suffer from, as pointed out, the need to fit everything from the 40k universe into them.

Strikerkc
31-03-2005, 00:01
...but they suffer from, as pointed out, the need to fit everything from the 40k universe into them.

And...

Spoiler:...the single most horrible ending to a story that has ever been conceived. If your reading this Engel, when they get to the place in the webway where time moves in all directions or something like that, close the book, set it aside, and make up your own ending. It will be better than the one they came up with. /Spoiler

[edit] Does the temp portent not have spoiler tags?

New plan. I'll make the color black so the back ground will hide it :).

Inquisitor Engel
31-03-2005, 00:02
[edit] Does the temp portent not have spoiler tags?
Nope, unfortunately not. :(

Strikerkc
31-03-2005, 00:10
Nope, unfortunately not. :(

Eh, oh well. I figured out how to acomplish the same thing though ;).

Inquisitor Engel
31-03-2005, 05:54
Spoiler
Damn.

Just damn.

Well, this was just a TAD ... different. I won't say it was BAD, but it certainly wasn't what I was expected. It seems to drive home the point that Meh'Lindi is a one dimensional character.

I certainly wasn't expecting Lex to blow Jaq's skull to bits. Still, the 'enlightenment' Jaq can potentially recieve is a tad more interesting. Of course, then we get into the Eldar conspiracy... Was Jaq simply a tool? Was all of this in the Farseer's plan? What really was the point of the Eldar Ceremony.

I feel a tad cheated by the number of questions raised, not necessarilly general points of 40k, as you've said, it is a little bit of a whirlwind tour (Other than to give Lex and Grimm someplace to go, did we need to visit the warzone? The Tyranid World? No.)

Still I really like Lex, he's a lot more of a real Fist, rather than a Pete Haine's Fist. ("A Fist was a thinker" almost seems to argue the IA a decade preemptively!) I'm quite tempted to do a short story about Lex 'Finishing his Crusade', perhaps at the Pillar of Bone with his Company's Chaplains. I might just do that. :D

Wait for the update. ;)

t-tauri
01-04-2005, 09:58
I enjoyed Space Marine and the first of the trilogy, Inquisitor where it seemed as if the editorial brief and control was tight. The last two novels of the trilogy suffered from Ian Watson's writing style taking over and too many of his ideas taking the plot too far away from the 40k universe even of 15 years ago, never mind all the divergences now.

I would recommend Space Marine if you've not read it and can get it because that delves into Lex's background and recruitment with some nice background on the Fists and Necromunda.

lord_fenric
01-04-2005, 12:58
The whole impression i got after finishing the trilogy was that it was going to becontinued. Anaother point was it was never billed as a trilogy, there were hugh gaps between the releases of the novels IIRC.

But it does show what a novelist can do when given more latitude from GW then is currently handed out. That the 40k universe can be an interesting and 3 dimensional place.

Rich
04-04-2005, 08:09
It was good, but some of the older fluff is slightly irritating - tbh I think Space Marine is a far superior novel to any of the three inquisition war books, and sits much more nicely with current fluff also (although bizarrely enough the BL don't agree).

Wintermute
04-04-2005, 18:42
But, the title Inquisition war is a recent addition to the novels, since the origional titles (Inquisitor, harleqion and chaos child) were scrapped (probably to avoid confusion). Therefore the title in itslef is misleading.

In terms of actual novels they are far above the majority of what is published by the BL but they suffer from, as pointed out, the need to fit everything from the 40k universe into them.

Only the first book was retitled, not all three.

Inquisitor Samos
05-04-2005, 17:01
This set of stories is starting to sound more and more like a definite gap in my 40K "positively need to read" list........ Emperordammit, I guess I'd better go and get hold of 'em......!

Bruen
05-04-2005, 19:39
It could have been a good book if only it had followed some of the story lines until the end.

It was great fluff-wise but with no real endings to most of the main story lines I felt cheated at the end (and no, what happens in the webway at the end is not a real ending to the love story OR the main story).

I found the Gaunts Ghosts books to be much more satisfying.

venusianfurs
02-06-2005, 12:17
Here's a question: the re-issued omnibus starts with a pretty clear disclaimer by way of a letter from someone in the ministorum to someone else, describing the unlikelyhoods of the following transcripts and the questionable dating (1200 years old or something, when the Harlequin prologue already puts events back 700 odd), and signed simply 'R.' (as opposed to 'grand prefect so n' so'). So who at GW or BL is R?

But aye, the BL's finest fiction to date, though it did meander slightly at the end, and remained very open, so I'd be all for part four. We could've seen more of Zephro Carnelian's character, too.
Reading it again recently, it seemed to me kind of boy's own-ish in an intellectual way, rather than a gut's n' glory way, as Draco comes off more of a totally self-absorbed, ultimately selfish 'hero' than I remembered, and the female characters are either unknowable, unattainable goddessess or vampish daemonettes, or just dodgy background fillers.

alterion
02-06-2005, 12:35
yar the ending is stupid.. i realy enjoyed the books but some of the elements did suffer form the old 4ok syndrome of each new element being an even bigger certain doom for the galaxy than the last.. whac was also certain doom but now ...

Hellebore
03-06-2005, 05:16
I liked the ending. I liked the series. But that is because I like science fiction, rather than scifi or SF or science fantasy. The major demographic of BL readers are into mindless action and slaughter thus the reason most BL stuff tends to follow that direction, and is written by people who specialise in that stuff.

Ian Watson however, is a SCIENCE FICTION writer, having him write 40K is like asking asimov or silverberg to give it a go. THey write actual science fiction as opposed to pulp SF. THus their stuff is what I would call 'arty'.

My best analogy would be the artists at GW. Their art department consists of illustrators, not artists. THe only ARTIST at GW is John BLanche, as the stuff he does is 'arty' not illustration.


Ian Watson is an artist, while the other authors are mearly illustrators.

Having said that I don't necessarily like JB's work, but when I think "what is quintissentially 40K?" I always think of JB's disturbing surreal art, not Dave Gallaghers illustrations.

hellebore

venusianfurs
03-06-2005, 13:01
THe only ARTIST at GW is John BLanche, as the stuff he does is 'arty' not illustration...Ian Watson is an artist, while the other authors are mearly illustrators. hellebore
I agree, but clearly it works, so what they need is more of this - art rocks!

Adept
03-06-2005, 14:02
Titles? ISBN numbers?

I'm looking for a new series to read at the moment, so I might give this a go.

Oh, and John Blanche isn't the only artist at GW. He's the only spastic.

Inquisitor Samos
03-06-2005, 14:44
The major demographic of BL readers are into mindless action and slaughter thus the reason most BL stuff tends to follow that direction, and is written by people who specialise in that stuff.
While I can't necessarily argue with the validity of this point, I myself would certainly not classify the "Eisenhorn" and "Ravenor" series stories as falling into the "mindless action and slaughter" category.



Titles? ISBN numbers?

I'm looking for a new series to read at the moment, so I might give this a go.

Currently all three of the "Jaq Draco / Inquisition War" trilogy are available combined in a single title, The Inquisition War. ISBN: 1844161382

Adept
03-06-2005, 15:38
urrently all three of the "Jaq Draco / Inquisition War" trilogy are available combined in a single title, The Inquisition War. ISBN: 1844161382

Just bought it off Amazon. Thanks.

venusianfurs
03-06-2005, 15:53
Oh, and John Blanche isn't the only artist at GW. He's the only spastic.
What the hell is this about?

Bmaxwell
03-06-2005, 17:11
the only artist i don't like was alot of the 3rd edtion art work all the hair was stand on end you know who im talking about? really annoying and just bad stuff if it was done just with a bit more style and not gonna for a gritty dirty look it would have been so much better

Captain Cortez
03-06-2005, 18:55
I actauly have some Sci-Fi, fantasy short storys of Ian Watsons, and I must say he is a witty and talented writer. He is what you call a"real" Sci-Fi writer. I haven't read Space Marine, but maybe because I have never found it.

As for other BL authors, Dan Abnett is good, and I think Ben Counter is a rising star, his Novel Daemon World was very good. People like Gram McNeil are just GW style writers not deep and compeling. I will say though, that Storm of Iron was good.

sulla
04-06-2005, 02:20
Oh, and John Blanche isn't the only artist at GW. He's the only spastic.

I used to think so too but if you look at his stuff, it captures the character of the 40k universe better than any of the others. His attention to detail (especially disturbing detail) is on a different level to any of the other GW artists.

It's unfortunate really because guys like MG are much better artists but their work is so... clean... compared to his.

Damage,Inc.
04-06-2005, 05:51
After reading the series I seriously thought that Ian Watson had some issues relating to women. His female characters are very one dimensional and seem to only exist for the purpose of supporting the self-absorbed and centered Draco. The main character seemed unable to grasp any sort of control over his feelings and instead lived in a very juvenile world of "crushes" stemming from an inability to release emotions about someone in his early life. Drco is very repressed, psychologically. That point made for an irritating read more than anything else.

Also, the threads of plot that are put out seem to all link up in the end and kept me reading. Unfortunately, the do not. There isn't even an attempt to do so. The ending was very haphazard as though Watson forgot where he intended to take the series. Perhaps his grand vision was shbot down by an editor after the frist books, but before the final one.

It is a good read, however and contains great imagery of the 40K universe.

venusianfurs
04-06-2005, 12:32
After reading the series I seriously thought that Ian Watson had some issues relating to women. His female characters are very one dimensional and seem to only exist for the purpose of supporting the self-absorbed and centered Draco. The main character seemed unable to grasp any sort of control over his feelings and instead lived in a very juvenile world of "crushes" stemming from an inability to release emotions about someone in his early life. Drco is very repressed, psychologically.
Aye, but I think this is deliberate, he's (Draco) out of his depth when it comes to women, if not people in general, as would all Inquisitors be, because of the restraints of his job. He's a moody Flashman (or an ultra-realistic one?) to Eisnehorn's Dirty Harry.

Hellebore
04-06-2005, 12:39
After reading the series I seriously thought that Ian Watson had some issues relating to women. His female characters are very one dimensional and seem to only exist for the purpose of supporting the self-absorbed and centered Draco. The main character seemed unable to grasp any sort of control over his feelings and instead lived in a very juvenile world of "crushes" stemming from an inability to release emotions about someone in his early life. Drco is very repressed, psychologically. That point made for an irritating read more than anything else.

Also, the threads of plot that are put out seem to all link up in the end and kept me reading. Unfortunately, the do not. There isn't even an attempt to do so. The ending was very haphazard as though Watson forgot where he intended to take the series. Perhaps his grand vision was shbot down by an editor after the frist books, but before the final one.

It is a good read, however and contains great imagery of the 40K universe.

You are correct about his psychological repression, but have stopped to think that perhaps part of Ian Watson's ability is the fact that he CAN write characters like that, deliberately? Watson himself said in the prologue to the omnibus that he liked the themes the 40k universe used, and enjoyed exploring them. Thus I can quite easily see him noticing the sexual repression of a totalitarian regime that puts duty above love. And Draco is a case in point. It says in the original novel he tried sex once, just to see waht it was like and make notes on it. This about the age of 28 I think. He had never had sex after that, being completely absorbed in his studies. Stop for a moment and think how a person would develop sexually in in a position where they are constantly under tremendous psychological stress, and are working at a high risk job 24/7 all year round.

THe psycholoigcal effects of such a job are not mentioned in 40k literature, it appears as though any of the gung-ho heroes can survive such a situation without any companionship whatsoever, shrugging off any of the 'real world' psychological problems they should have accrued in abundance with a roll of the shoulders.



while I can't necessarily argue with the validity of this point, I myself would certainly not classify the "Eisenhorn" and "Ravenor" series stories as falling into the "mindless action and slaughter" category.

Yeah sorry, I shouldn't have made such a sweeping generalisation, and you are correct about those books, which is why I believe they are some of the best BL stuff post Ian Watson.

hellebore

Damage,Inc.
04-06-2005, 17:55
I'm not stating that it wasn't "brilliant" for Ian Watson to be able to show the repression that is prevalent in the Imperium. I am stating that is is damn irritating to read over the course of three novels. It could have been handled better, in my opinion.

Grand Warlord
26-02-2006, 13:52
I guess they will just need to continue the series then lol