PDA

View Full Version : Background check for describing/modelling pyskers in a 40k RPG



Kage2020
23-07-2006, 16:01
Right, I tried this thread in the RPG section for comments on the RPG side of things with little success. Instead, I've come back to home territory - Portent's, sorry, Warseer's 40k background forum - for comments on how the structure that I've created fits in with the 'fluff' that we all so love. My purpose is not necessarily to discuss the RPG abstractions that go up to make the representation, but rather whether the representation matches with the 'fluff' and, in those places that it extends away from the material, it does so with the right "feel".

All very dubious terminology of "feel"? Yep, I agree. Stick with it, if you don't mind...

Sorcery
This is the use of symbolic rituals coupled with intent and a group of trained, willing individuals to engender a given effect that is analogous to what a psyker does "naturally". Sorcery is inherently restricted by locale, such that specific rituals may only be performed in specific areas aspected or dedicated to a certain 'thing' (usually a deity or deity-by-proxy, but also things like a "death-aspected battlefield").

The practice of Sorcery is the more normal "in" for Chaos Cults, who use locale, willing practitioners and ritual sacrifice to create the "power" to manipulate the warp energy that engenders a given effect.

Sorcery is also the means by which an individual may become what I refer to as a "Numina": individuals that have entered into a pact with a warp power/deity and have been, in essence, giving them the ability to manipulate warp energy to an effect similar to that of psykers. Their Pact is, of course, a determining factor (i.e. they can be stripped of their powers as well). (And, yes, in essence these are "clerics", to use a more generic fantasy term.) While it is exceptionally rare, Numina can be born and not raised by Pact. Such individuals might be thought of as the stuff or prophecy, individuals destined to serve for good or ill...

Psykers
A psyker is an individual that channels warp energy with and through their "soul" to engender preternatural effects within the matterium. There are different Classes and Grades of psyker, as well as numerous categorised Powers that they can manipulate. Also, there are those individuals that might be thought of as "Wyrds", able to recreate psyker abilities with surprising power even if they might not register as anything but "latent", or even to create such abilities without seeming to channel the energy of the warp.

In short, psykers are what we more normally think of when, erm, you mention psykers. Erm, yes.

Enuncians
Enuncia is a syntactic magic, harking back to a primordial time and that might be thought of as a sequence of "memes". It is an extremely powerful, if potentially damaging, type of ability that doesn't directly involve the channelling of the warp (and is therefore not similar to either Sorcery, Numina, Psykers or the Wyrd). There are a finite, but large, number of "words of power".

Greater Magic
The ability to shape the very fabric of the universe to the will of the wielder. This is the power of daemons, gods and avatars.

How does that play out based upon what you understand of the 'fluff'? The right "feel" or not?

In advance and hope, thanks...

Kage

Adept
23-07-2006, 16:15
Enuncians get a bit of a :wtf: and a :eyebrows:. But the psykers and sorcerors seem to mesh pretty well with the images in my head.

Kage2020
23-07-2006, 16:49
For Enuncians I can only refer you to Abnett's Ravenor and Ravenor Returned. In that a character has the ability to speak a word (or words) that have a defined impact upon the physical universe without an evident psyker component. The speaking of such words is inherently damaging, seemingly, but their power seems to be unquestioned.

In terms of the difference between them and psykers, while psykers have a larger series of abilities that require the channelling of warp energy, "Enucians" (a poor name for those that use the ability of "Enuncia" so feel free to suggest one!) have a more limited series of abilities that ends up causing them physical harm, at least after a time.

A bit hokey? Sorry, I have to deal with those bits of the 'fluff' that are not completely silly... ;)

I really do appreciate the comments of members of the board, though. As I may have mentioned here or elsewhere, when making an RPG of the 40k universe one runs into two general problems. Firstly, very few people in the RPG community seem to be interested in the 40k universe as an RPG setting and, secondly, most people that are capable of going the "extra distance" are 'fluff' lovers and thus have less interest in contributing to the RPG side of things. Catch 22 in many regards. <sigh> Thus, once again, thanks for your help all ye lovers of 'fluff'. Argh, me maties. (Sorry, I'm watching Pirates of the Caribbean and it gets even to me!)

Kage

masecase
23-07-2006, 19:04
Those enuncia sound a bit like like people using unknowing a ritual to channel powers of a certain entity. Maybe the harm is the sacrifice for it. Just an idea.

schoon
24-07-2006, 15:53
Getting replies from the usual suspects ;)

I would say that the Enuncians would be a subset of the Sorcery section rather than a section in their own right.

I also think that the emphasis on the "pact" in Sorcery is slightly overstated, and that there are a few more "born" ones than you credit.

Other than that, it sounds like you're on.

Khaine's Messenger
24-07-2006, 16:31
In that a character has the ability to speak a word (or words) that have a defined impact upon the physical universe without an evident psyker component. The speaking of such words is inherently damaging, seemingly, but their power seems to be unquestioned.

That's actually rather interesting. That is, I can see, different from using linguistic tricks and mnemonic devices of dead languages to channel warp energy to gain a desired effect (eg, how mages in WHFB distill and direct their spells). The fact that certain names have power does lend itself to the fact that certain words (or combinations of gestures or orchestrated crowds indicating all manner of connotative meanings) in themselves have power, though. It really comes down to how you may want to define this language (which is itself supposed to be universal)--"Enuncians," rare as they are, may be seen as a subset of sorcery precisely because their actions may be confused with mnemonic devices and part and parcel of sorcery can be daemon-binding or various forms of sympathetic magic, which all require some form of power-words (as the Dark Tongue of various settings is supposed to be a twisted derivative of the Voice of Creation).


a poor name for those that use the ability of "Enuncia" so feel free to suggest one!

Is the ability to "use" Enuncia inherent to a person? Or do you mean that you'd just like a word to set them apart like "soul guard" psykers and etc.? In which case I would suggest Vox Veritas...a silly "latinized" term that I'm pretty sure means Voice of Truth.


A bit hokey?

No, I like the concept of "truespeak" (as d20 calls it) more than "normal" magic (even if d20 approached it poorly). It's a more...mechanical...means of "hacking reality" than your typical willworker's conjurations because it suggests an objective, external "source" of power which pops the hood to the universe and lets you muck about inside rather than simply writing your own source code and hoping it runs on someone else's system.

dr vompire
24-07-2006, 16:35
have one of you ever read Dune, the whole ravenor thing is clearly a refference to the wierding way

Emperor's Grace
24-07-2006, 17:35
I can't believe that I was beaten to a Dune reference...

Kage,

Dune aside, is this supposed to be more like a "the will and the word" (isn't that Eddings?) or a "true name" situation?

Hmm... or "voice of creation"? (I like that).

I've always liked the idea that true sorcery requires sacrifice. That could be of one's own body/blood/mind/etc... or of others willing/unwillingly. Power levels could obviously be seen as dependent on the type/quality/quantity of sacrifice.

I'd rather see it as the word itself being specific to the user. Essentially, the word is meaningless in and of itself. It's just a trigger to engage certain memes/thoughts/paths in the mind of the user, whose will is imposed on reality by their use.

I guess that makes me argue for enucia to be a subset of psyker. Likely an unknowing/latent one whose connection only opens when the powers are active. The strain would be suddenly pouring energy through the normally closed paths in the brain.

It could get less stressful as the progressed for items of the same level, but then they'd want to try bigger things...

It could also get interesting if they were a psyker but channelled "material plane" energy instead of warp. Kind of disrupting space-time and/or quantum probabilities to force the outcome they desired.

Kage2020
24-07-2006, 23:10
Those enuncia sound a bit like like people using unknowing a ritual to channel powers of a certain entity. Maybe the harm is the sacrifice for it. Just an idea.
Fair enough. In normal fashion the information is pretty light on the table, though there is some implications that this might be right, at least according to Ravenor Returned. Depends on how much you squint, though. In lieu of further information, and since it mechanically splits out, I'll stick with it being separated from Sorcery as it stands even if one might consider it a subset.


I would say that the Enuncians would be a subset of the Sorcery section rather than a section in their own right.
As above, the differences in how it is portrayed means that, while it might indeed by considered a subset, means that I'm going to stick to the separation. So, if I were writing it up I would more than likely mentioned it nearer to Sorcery, but it's not going to be the same thing.


I also think that the emphasis on the "pact" in Sorcery is slightly overstated, and that there are a few more "born" ones than you credit.
Hmmn... Not entirely sure what you're getting at here, so perhaps a tiny bit more explanation. Numina are those individuals that are given their Powers; they do not have them natively. In this regard very much like "clerics". That is not to say, however, that a Psyker cannot enter into a Pact with a warp power.

This is, overall, meant to evoke a response or a "feel". Why do people sell their souls to the dark powers, etc., etc. Without getting too far into the mechanical side, but that is one approach that I have tried to keep is a continuing temptation to delve too deep, to draw too much upon the warp and, in so doing, potentially Taint or damn your soul. The average psyker in the game (tending to be the lower grades rather than the alphas and betas that are normally concentrated on) are going to have enough "energy" to use their powers, but when pushed that extra well-spring of power is always going to be there... calling like a siren!

Erm, yes.


It really comes down to how you may want to define this language (which is itself supposed to be universal)--"Enuncians," rare as they are, may be seen as a subset of sorcery precisely because their actions may be confused with mnemonic devices...
Indeed, although as above mechanically they separate out quite nicely hence the differentiation. It's just a representation thing, at the moment, so not really something to get hett up about.


Is the ability to "use" Enuncia inherent to a person?
Nope. It is something that can be learned, or thus go the implications. No "silly "latinized" term" is required.


have one of you ever read Dune, the whole ravenor thing is clearly a refference to the wierding way
Yes, I've read the Dune series and, yes, one can argue that it is a variation of the Voice, at least as used in the film. Well, perhaps more so. Of course, finding where 40k gets the, erm, inspiration from is not always hard!

Thanks for the pointer, though.



[quote=Emperor's Grace]Dune aside, is this supposed to be more like a "the will and the word" (isn't that Eddings?) or a "true name" situation?
Enuncia? If anything, more like the "Word", i.e. linguistic creations separate from the Will (which is another thing entirely). At least that's the impression that I get and, well, it kind of fits in with how I view some of the things (rather conveniently so). With that said, there really isn't that much information on there so anything is "shooting blind".

(I know that you were talking about a series of books, but I only started reading them before they ended up getting left behind in the UK.)


I've always liked the idea that true sorcery requires sacrifice. That could be of one's own body/blood/mind/etc... or of others willing/unwillingly.
Indeed, hence why I see it as a catalyst.


I'd rather see it as the word itself being specific to the user.
In this case, no. I am making a distinction between Enuncia and Sorcery, even though if they might use similar trappings (i.e. words or rituals).


I guess that makes me argue for enucia to be a subset of psyker.
In this case it shares mechanical similarities with both Sorcery and Psykers. No worries, though. I'll post you the link so that you can see how it plays out.

Kage

my_name_is_tudor
24-07-2006, 23:13
Enuncia is an idea along the lines of the Grimoire of True Names idea I take it? - speak a daemon's name, you can hold some of its power, no psychic touch needed.

Kage2020
24-07-2006, 23:27
Well, the only real description is that a chappie uses it and then starts throwing someone around in a similar way to telekinesis. It is extremely exhausting and/or damaging, with the person using it ending up bleeding towards the end of it. Again, though, the information is pretty light on the ground... I just don't think that this is a reason to avoid it! ;)

Since mechanics are partially coming into the question, the main difference is that "Sorcery" is represented in the same way as Psykers. (Now, remember that when I - as the GM - sell or represent this to the players I will do so with different terms. What I describe here is the original terminology merely for the sake of convenience.) This means that they utilise "spells" to mimic psyker abilities, with each "spell" having a defined energy cost. Enuncians, on the other hand, utilise "powers"... Okay, that doesn't mean a great deal. Erm, suffice to say that they are different... :D

Kage

nurgleman
25-07-2006, 00:24
Eunicia is an ancient language spoken by a long dead civillization of daemons. It has power over the warp, describing the true nature of things. I think that the head explosions and bodily harm is because the user is describing the wrong thing when he uses it on someone and it destroys the victim.

Kage2020
25-07-2006, 00:42
Thank you, nurgleman. I don't think that changes anything at the moment, so thanks for that! :D

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
25-07-2006, 01:09
This means that they utilise "spells" to mimic psyker abilities, with each "spell" having a defined energy cost. Enuncians, on the other hand, utilise "powers"...

You could call them "utterances"...that's the keyword they use to describe Truespeak "spells" in Tome of Magic. Rather daft, but there we are.

And how prevalent do you think "Enuncia" is?

Kage2020
25-07-2006, 01:11
From the 'fluff', limited as it is, "Enuncia" is meant to be very, very rare.

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
25-07-2006, 01:25
Which means it's everywhere. Gotcha. ;)

I can understand certain words having a sort of built-in power (that is the underlying assumption of the power of Names), but again...one wonders how this language is defined. It is obviously spoken (exclusively?), and therefore merely writing or silently reading a power-word (which may lose some meaning as it could all be in the pronunciation) would be insufficient to "use" it...not only that, but this "language" is most likely so "primal" that there may be no otherwise meaningful information in the gibberish, such as how to combine the words to create a new or different effect...or how new words could be discovered, or words forced to fit the human range of expression.

schoon
25-07-2006, 16:29
Hmmn... Not entirely sure what you're getting at here, so perhaps a tiny bit more explanation. Numina are those individuals that are given their Powers; they do not have them natively. In this regard very much like "clerics". That is not to say, however, that a Psyker cannot enter into a Pact with a warp power.

What I'm trying to get at is that I believe that there are those that act as natural conduits for the Numina warp powers not because of a pact, but simply because their motivations and/or psychology are similar.

I suppose you could call it an "unwitting cleric" or one possessed by a god who happens to mirror their viewpoint, but with whom they've had no prior "contact."

Then again, you could make the argument that there's essentially no difference - rules wise - between that and someone who did make a pact...

nurgleman
25-07-2006, 17:59
Khaine actually Eunicia Writing has power over people too. It can be used to "program" daemonic enities and reading it can cause headaches, dizziness, and head explosions. Normal computers can't even handle having Eunicia on the computer and only ones tainted by the warp can handle it.

Sandlemad
25-07-2006, 22:17
Ever read "Popes and Phantoms" by John Whitbourn? A wonderful piece of renaissance fantasy.
Anyway, in the novel there were a select few people who knew the true names of god. They had a hebrew name but I can't recall it. By reciting these names they could have different effects on people and reality. Typically, making their brains run out their ears. Being enlightened doesn't make you any less of a jerk.;)

This brings me to a mention in one of Dan Abnett's short stories, "Pestilence". Probably the best 40k short story I've read, incidentally, not action film style at all.
It happens during an interview in the story, the interviewee being a retired imperial guard colonel in a sororitas rest home/mental hospital. When pressed, he reluctantly revealed the name he'd seen inscribed on the chaos forces' banners. Nurgle, though it isn't said directly. ("an obscene gurgle dignified by consonants, barely a word")
The effects of him simply saying this are pretty damn strong. The temperature goes down by a few degrees. Everyone feels somewhat nauseous and one of the doctors turns and vomits. The parchment on which the servo-skull was recording this ignites in flames. The inmates go wild, howling and sobbing.

For what that's worth.:)

my_name_is_tudor
25-07-2006, 22:54
Words are like that in a lot of Abnett works.. just saying 'Khorne' nearly making someone mad, for instance.

Kage2020
25-07-2006, 23:19
...but this "language" is most likely so "primal" that there may be no otherwise meaningful information in the gibberish...
That is the implication and, indeed, how I am choosing to interpret it.


What I'm trying to get at is that I believe that there are those that act as natural conduits for the Numina warp powers not because of a pact, but simply because their motivations and/or psychology are similar.
I'm agreeing that it is possible. At the same time I have a personal opinion that such figures are quite rare, whereas you would prefer them not to be as rare. Since this seems to be a matter of personal preference and not one that is necessarily systemic, at this point it is an "agree to disagree" situation?

The Pact specifically refers to those individuals that engage in Sorcery in the more traditional "Chaos Cult" matter. You are, however, entirely correct that in any writeup I shall have to be a bit more specific. Thanks, schoon.


Khaine actually Eunicia Writing has power over people too.
Well, that means in the long-run I'm going to have to re-read Ravenor. <sigh>


For what that's worth.
A lot.

With that said, I personally don't want to get too bogged down in Enuncia at the moment.

How relatively powerful should the different grades of psyker be, out of interest?

Kage

Easy E
25-07-2006, 23:47
Perhaps I am an idiot, but how does the Enuncia generate any type of effect? Psykers and Sorcerers draw on the power of Warp energy. You stated that Enuncia can generate their effects without drawing on the power of the Warp. If my thoughts on the 40K universe are accurate, doesn't all "mystical" (for lack of a better word) energy draw from the Warp? If this is true, but Enuncias do not use warp energy, what gives them their power?

Nurgleman explained that it was an ancient language of Demons, but wouldn't that inherently have to do with the warp?

I'm confused.

Edit: Sorry, you said that you didn't want to get bogged down in Enuncia.

As far as the relative power of different grades of psykers, that sounds like a mechanics issue. Without the mechanics it is hard to describe.

Also, you description of using a vaster pool of power always potentially being there for a less powerful psyker is interesting. It reminds me of the system for Dark Side points in the old Star Wars RPG from West End Games (?). You could tap into them whenever you wanted, but once you use one, it will forever be with you. This would alter how you perceived things around you, and the difficulty of using force powers in the future without acessing the Darkside Points increased. The more you had to do this, the more Darkside points you would acquire. It also seems to fit into 40K and demonic possession. As a lower level psyker has to access this pool of power to perform, the more vulnerable they become to demonic possession. This helps explain how someone could involuntarily become a gateway for demonic possession.

my_name_is_tudor
25-07-2006, 23:53
Enuncia play on the link that all psychic-aware-races have to the warp. Or thats the way I think of it. Its drawing from the warp yes, but indirectly, it's relying on the 'target's connection to summon up the effect.

Kage2020
25-07-2006, 23:54
Hmmn... I'm not overtly worried about the justification at the moment. I like to try and keep my conversions as "complete" as possible as soon as possible.

Incidentally, any responses on the relative power between the various psykers? This is one of the things that I'm still trying to get "just right", even if it means that Beta and Alpha's are going to be so rarely played because of their huge "expense".

Again, thanks guys!

Kage

nurgleman
26-07-2006, 00:05
Each level is drastically more powerful. Alphas are basically mini-emeperors that cause wanton destruction wherever they go.

Kage2020
26-07-2006, 00:16
Yes, that's the impression that I'm getting. And, indeed, have gotten for quite some time. My challenge is to actually model it, hence asking 'fluffers' for their opinion! :D

Kage

my_name_is_tudor
26-07-2006, 00:20
Alphas always struck me as the un-gameable type, (and indeed, too rare anyway)..

bertcom1
26-07-2006, 00:40
Psykers should have more power available than Sorcerors, although it is likely to be uncontrollable.

Sorcerors should have less power than Psykers, but have more control over it.

Enuncians = ?


Zeta level characters should have immaculate hair in all circumstances.

Epsilon level characters should be able to light candles, flip coins, and influence gambling machines.

Delta level characters should be able to cause wounds to humans.

Gamma level characters should be able to destroy small buildings e.g. single story houses.

Beta level characters should be able to destroy large buildings e.g. tower blocks.

Alpha level characters should be able to destroy whole blocks of cities.


Most Imperial psykers should be Delta or Gamma level, with a few being Beta.

Khaine's Messenger
26-07-2006, 02:08
Sorcerors are the most powerful in potentia because through the manhandling and roundabout management of warp energy through sympathetic relationships and rituals, they can negate most of the costly effects of warp channeling; on the other hand, the backlash of mishandling that amount of power could be more devastating than an uncontrolled alpha (and there are no doubt many more sorcerors than alphas). Since non-pact sorcery is, however, hard to cast on the spot and deals mostly with rituals and extensive shared symbolism as well as multiple casters acting in concert (quite possibly over vast tracts of space, taking advantage of FTL travel in rituals involving stellar conjunctions and other phenomena), you will never see a sorceror go toe to toe with a Gamma or higher psyker without many assurances--the best of which is being a Gamma or higher in his own right, the least of which is having equipment to ground opponents' psychic powers.

In effect, a sorceror has power disproportionate to his bearing, and every one of his spells is like playing with matches as an asbestos-covered ceramite-layered rad suit wearing three year old with the manual dexterity to match. The ultimate problem is, of course, learning how to put together rituals in such a way as to be able to redirect the cosmos...because odds are that you're going to suffer the backlash or the torch first...and most likely, contact daemons even before that.

Enuncians' powers would fall under a similar paradigm, but as their power words cannot be created or extrapolated as rituals can (and if so, then most likely with more difficulty), nor those words apparently expand beyond a single person speaking them (although they could form a component of a sorcerous spell), they would be mostly a one-shot wonder.

Psykers, naturally, are the most individually powerful, capable of setting people on fire just by thinking about it, but their powers are often limited by the fact that they cannot affect things beyond their powers of sensory perception (a fault often mitigated in higher level psionic abilities because one's perception at such ranges becomes more a function of your psionic "presence" than your physical capabilities). Naturally, psychic powers are more an effort of will than a mechanical sequence of actions, although many psykers incorporate tiny rituals into their abilities as mnemonic devices or minor "sorcerous" tricks to direct their powers to the source of their ire "at will," more like firing a gun than designing a bomb.

All imho.

Easy E
26-07-2006, 04:27
Just a couple more questions. Are these groupings mutually exclusive? Can a Sorceror be a Psyker and vice-versa in Kageverse? It seems like they should be able to, but I just want to know.

Also, I imagine that a Psykers presence in the Warp is very bright. How does this work for Sorcerors or Enuncia? I would imagine that Sorceror's would only have a Warp presence above normal while involved in a ritual or actually channelling Warp energy. Since Enuncia don't necessarily use the Warp per se, then they would not have any extra-ordinary Warp signature.

Next issue, I feel that the relative power issue delves a bit into the Mechanics of your system. However, I will take a stab at it.

Sorcerors have the most potential power, and it is not really limited as more powerful rituals could/would be learned. The main mitigating factor would be the components (locations, items, casters) and the complexity (The length of the incantations, pronunciation issues, gestures, etc.) of the ritual. These factors alone could severely limit the abilities of a sorceror.

A Psykers powers are instant and require little in the way of complexity and components. This is one of the primary advantages of being a true psyker as opposed to a sorceror. However, a psykers power is limited by the strength of his Warp presence. The more greater the warp presence the more powerful the psyker. However, this is something that the psyker can not control (except to mask at higher power levels) and is born with. no amount of study and excertion will raise their warp presence.

Enuncia also are limited by the complexity of the enunciation they have to perform and the rules of Enuncia "grammar". I imagine that more knowledge of Enuncia "grammar" would be possibel to learn and research. However, this language would be mind-boggling arcane and difficult to find examples of. I see Enuncia as the most limited of the three forms being discussed here.

Now, throw in a pinch of Handwavium and we've got something cooking.

Thanks for creating this interesting thread Kage 2020.

Kage2020
26-07-2006, 18:44
Alphas always struck me as the un-gameable type, (and indeed, too rare anyway)...
You can argue that, but where possible I personally try to be inclusive rather than exclusive. Alpha Grade pyskers will be very "expensive" to play, which means in most campaigns they're not going to show up.

I just like to be as complete as possible!


Psykers should have more power available than Sorcerors, although it is likely to be uncontrollable.
That is a possibility, that in this case is represented through further options.


Sorcerors should have less power than Psykers, but have more control over it.
Sorcery is also, as mentioned previously, limited by locale, the requirements of ritual, etc.

As to your descriptions of levels, bert1com, thank you. I can think of a number of circumstances where a Zeta Grade psyker can cause as much damage as an Alpha, though! ;)


...on the other hand, the backlash of mishandling that amount of power could be more devastating than an uncontrolled alpha...
That is, indeed, how it plays out at the moment.


...they would be mostly a one-shot wonder.
Ditto, once again.


Just a couple more questions. Are these groupings mutually exclusive? Can a Sorceror be a Psyker and vice-versa in Kageverse? It seems like they should be able to, but I just want to know.
No, they are not mutually exclusive. Sorcery is, in essence, ritual magic and I use the magic system to represent psykers so, well, they kind of go hand-in-hand! ;)


Also, I imagine that a Psykers presence in the Warp is very bright.
That is the general idea, yes. Though normally only when they go beyond a certain, nominally "safe" level.


These factors alone could severely limit the abilities of a sorceror.
Indeed.


A Psykers powers are instant and require little in the way of complexity and components. This is one of the primary advantages of being a true psyker as opposed to a sorceror.
Indeed, and why Numina are such pesky little beggers.

Thanks once again for the input guys/gals...

Kage

Khaine's Messenger
26-07-2006, 19:57
No, they are not mutually exclusive. Sorcery is, in essence, ritual magic and I use the magic system to represent psykers so, well, they kind of go hand-in-hand! ;)

I would argue that most "well-trained" psykers (a "rarity"?) would also have an extensive repetoire of "sorcerous" abilities or would be capable of enacting a sorcerous ritual if they felt the need. Not only are they not mutually exclusive, but the institutions that support either are built in such a manner that they support both (even if the Imperium doesn't want to admit it due to all the connotations of "sorcery").

nurgleman
26-07-2006, 21:01
Eunicia is not a one-shot wonder. You just have to get enough of the dead language to understand its grammar structure and what the words mean. I imagine you would eventually be able to perform extreme powerful spells. oh and also heres an idea kage2020 blanks would be interesting to implement in the game. They would have to be pretty high cost though because they are so rare.

Kage2020
26-07-2006, 21:50
Psychic blanks ala Untouchables, nurgleman? I definitely have them, though I didn't mention them. (They are basically portable "mana free" zones...)

As to Enuncia and "grammatical structure"? Again, I don't want to get too sidetracked, but in the end the "higher magic" thing (liberally plagiarised/merged in from Mage the Ascension) is there as representative of the "language"; Enuncia is just the broken form of it.

Of course, I haven't put too much thought into that since using MtA "magic" is not something that I would consider most of the time. It's far, far too powerful! :D

Kage