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elite_dannux
26-07-2006, 21:00
Hi im currently planning on using the bretonnian men@arms models as my empire infantry but i have a little problem: wich kind of state troops would it look best as? spearmen or swordsmen?


so the question is how good is spearmen vs swordsmen.

Nils-Ake
26-07-2006, 21:14
They would look best as swordsmen.
And swordsmen are the better one.

Alathir
27-07-2006, 05:15
Cool idea, I've always thought the empire infantry models were average. Those men at arms are awesome looking.

shadowprince
27-07-2006, 05:22
spearmen=bad, Swordsmen= good, and I belive they are a pointcheaper with a better stat line.

Tate
27-07-2006, 07:26
Swordsmen are more durable because of their higher WS, Init, and armor save.

I have known people to take the griffon banner on a unit of spears to great effect.

The question is, would extra S3 attacks help? Against goblins, skaven, elves, and other T3 enemies it would. However there is so much T4 out there (dwarves, orcs, chaos warriors) that the extra armor save and WS is probably better.

warlord hack'a
27-07-2006, 10:22
depends on what you want to do with them ;-). Get charged? then get spearmen.

charge themselves, then get swordsmen

easy actually ;-)

Milgram
27-07-2006, 10:54
even if you get charged: do you want to kill the enemy or just block him? is your enemy ws3 or ws4? for blocking the swordsmen are arguably better. higher ws means they don't get hit on a 3+ that often, the 4+ or even 3+ armour save (do they have heavy armor?) will let them survive when spearmen don't even hit back.

Keller
27-07-2006, 16:52
Swordsmen are the better buy. They have better stats, in the form of WS and Initiative, which makes it harder for better troops to hit them, and allows them to hit average models on 3's instead of 4's. With their better stats and 4+ AS, you can more easily deny the enemy combat res, rather than trying to rack up your own.

That being said, spears are also a good buy. Personally, I like the looks of my infantry armed with pole-weapons, so I typically buy spears and halberds. The look and feel on the table is more important to me than maximum combat effectiveness.
As a defensive player, I often accept taking charges with my units, so spears can be rather helpful. Swordsmen would be more likely to survive the charge and get a few strikes back, but I would rather have models able to attack even when the armor save is reduced or negated, such as taking a cavalry charge.

warlord hack'a
27-07-2006, 23:03
ok done some math:

12 swordsmen in a 6 wide frontage charge 12 spearmen in a 6 wide frontage. SPearmen have lights armour and spears and shields 95+ save), swordsmen have light armour shield and handweapon, so the costs of both units is exactly equal.

As it turned out the swordsmen will kill 1 1/3 spearmen on their charge and the spearmen in their turn will skewer 1 1/3 swordsmen. So they equal out when the sowrdsmen charge.

Now when the spearmen charge they will kill 1 swordman and the 5 swordsmen left alive will kill approximately 1 1/9 spearmen in return. So ironically enough the spearmenr are better of when they get charged (happens more often than you think with spearmen).

SO as to conclude: they are each other equals if fighting each other although the spearmen will be more reliable due to their higher number of dice rolled.. Mathematically wise anyway, but who cares about the maths..

elite_dannux
28-07-2006, 07:49
i know that the swordsman are *slightly* better in some cases but the bret m@a models just looks more like spearmens so ill probably use them.

captaincortez
30-07-2006, 19:28
why not halberdiers-since they are armed with halberds?

WillFightForFood
31-07-2006, 04:15
why not halberdiers-since they are armed with halberds?

Just... no... :cries:

gorenut
31-07-2006, 07:07
Definitely swordsmen. The only problem I have using Men at Arms as Swordsmen is that their shields seem too big for a unit of troops who were taught the ways of fencing. The shields definitely look like they belong on a polearmed regiment. I thought of using them in my Empire army too. In the end, I decided to use converted and individual free company soldiers as swordsmen