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venusianfurs
17-06-2005, 15:13
http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/imp_forces.html
On the left - who are they? And the Templar Psykologis?

Delicious Soy
17-06-2005, 15:21
Officio Sabatorum are agents of the Deparmento Munitorum. In a similar vein to assassins, they operate behind enemy line to wreak havoc but while assassins are concerned with wiping out an armies leadership, the Sabatorum utilise heavy munitions and such to destroy the infrastructure of war, destroying ammo and fuel dumps, poisoning water, ruining road networks and railways.

In Kill Team, there was a Sabatorum member who was put in the Last Chancers for accidentally killing a bunch of Imperial admirals. This would imply that they are also used for assaissnation, probably as a way for the Administratum to maintain a balance against the Officio Assassinorum.

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 15:24
Sabateurs basically. Think the IG version of fifth columnists. Specialists in loud bangs and smells*. One was in the 13th Legion book Kill Team. Can't remember his name though.

Templar Psykologis at a guess are your enemy morale sappers, blessed in psychological warfare. The guys who bomb round your neighbourhood in a chimera decked with massive speakers keeping you up all night by yelling "WE'RE GONNA CUT YOUR TONKERS OFF!" and such things.

*They claim it's the high carb diet.....

salty
17-06-2005, 15:47
I thought the Templar Psychologis were the Imperial Guard psykers? Working in conjunction with the command teams?

Salty :)

Sai-Lauren
17-06-2005, 16:01
Officio Sabatorum are agents of the Deparmento Munitorum. In a similar vein to assassins, they operate behind enemy line to wreak havoc but while assassins are concerned with wiping out an armies leadership, the Sabatorum utilise heavy munitions and such to destroy the infrastructure of war, destroying ammo and fuel dumps, poisoning water, ruining road networks and railways.

In Kill Team, there was a Sabatorum member who was put in the Last Chancers for accidentally killing a bunch of Imperial admirals. This would imply that they are also used for assaissnation, probably as a way for the Administratum to maintain a balance against the Officio Assassinorum.

IMO, Officio Assassinorum agents would be used both during peace time and war time as required, wheras Officio Sabatroum agents would only be used in the field in war time. But whereas OA agents are there to decapitate the enemies command structure (or in the Callidus' secondary use - to divert resources to allow victory), OS agents are more general - they'll kill enemy officers if the opportunity presents itself, but it's not their primary role. Destroying infrastructure - be it fuel and ammo, transport hubs and bridges, power supplies or defence installations, forcing the enemy to divert front line forces to protect those targets and search for them, and things like aiding other agents infiltration, capture of enemy officers and rescue missions for personnel like downed pilots, escaped POWs and so on - constantly fighting "the little war" and risking interrogation, torture and excution if caught.

They'll also be responsible for organising local resistance cells in areas where the imperium can't flex it's muscles at the moment, training them, co-ordinating strikes with other groups and the regular army and so on, local intelligence gathering and reporting it to command.

OA agents are specialised to an extreme level, can plan their missions and if they have to improvise are probably in trouble. OS agents can't afford to be specialised, rarely get time to plan and improvisation's become a way of life.

Lostanddamned
17-06-2005, 16:01
The guys who bomb round your neighbourhood in a chimera decked with massive speakers keeping you up all night by yelling "WE'RE GONNA CUT YOUR TONKERS OFF!" and such things.

Isn't it a little more sublte than this?

Stuff like moving around enemy camps moving stuff and stealing stuff so the enemy feels unprepared and unco-ordinated.

Sai-Lauren
17-06-2005, 16:14
Isn't it a little more sublte than this?

Stuff like moving around enemy camps moving stuff and stealing stuff so the enemy feels unprepared and unco-ordinated.

"Oh my, someone's moved my shaving brush!"
I can see how that would upset an army :p

Sorry. But that's kind of inconsequential in effect for the risk they'd be taking.

Now, if you'd said sneaking into the capital, defacing the leaders statues or portraits, stringing all his underwear across the main square (including the contents of his laundry basket for maximum embarrasment) and painting rude words about his mistress on his palace, then I'd agree with you. :D

charlie_c67
17-06-2005, 16:21
Still all psychological warfare. ;) After all, would you want to fight after no sleep and constant threats of castration if caught?

@Salty. That's the Adeptus Astra Telepathica/Scholastia Psykana/Adeptus Astronomica

salty
17-06-2005, 16:25
ah, okay. I'm not much of an Imperial person. I prefer the Orks, so much easier :evilgrin:

Salty :)

Lostanddamned
17-06-2005, 16:25
@sai-lauren: when an entire army wakes up at 4 am to find their encampments have been let down around them, and someone has moved the commanders clothing it can be rather fustrating. I have experienced waking up because your tent is collapsing many times, and doen it to other people, its really disheartening.

but yes what you suggested

venusianfurs
17-06-2005, 17:40
The WH40K universe being a superstitious place, I imagine that would quite freak them out, and they might ascribe it to some kind of evil spirit or creature - the worse the more backward a planet they call home.
A great idea that the Imperium requires an entire, secretive ordo to operate with psychological warfare - as even the most decorated infantry are essentialy no more than soldier ants, knowing no more than they have to, and concepts like the psychology of battle are beyond them; as far as they're concerned, you're either faithfull, or you're weak.

Delicious Soy
18-06-2005, 02:32
IMO, Officio Assassinorum agents would be used both during peace time and war time as required, wheras Officio Sabatroum agents would only be used in the field in war time. But whereas OA agents are there to decapitate the enemies command structure (or in the Callidus' secondary use - to divert resources to allow victory), OS agents are more general - they'll kill enemy officers if the opportunity presents itself, but it's not their primary role. Destroying infrastructure - be it fuel and ammo, transport hubs and bridges, power supplies or defence installations, forcing the enemy to divert front line forces to protect those targets and search for them, and things like aiding other agents infiltration, capture of enemy officers and rescue missions for personnel like downed pilots, escaped POWs and so on - constantly fighting "the little war" and risking interrogation, torture and excution if caught.

They'll also be responsible for organising local resistance cells in areas where the imperium can't flex it's muscles at the moment, training them, co-ordinating strikes with other groups and the regular army and so on, local intelligence gathering and reporting it to command.

OA agents are specialised to an extreme level, can plan their missions and if they have to improvise are probably in trouble. OS agents can't afford to be specialised, rarely get time to plan and improvisation's become a way of life.I'd agree that their primary function is on the tactical level while the Assassins move on both the strategic and tactical levels. But I'd say that having a group of infitrator, asssassins independent of the Temples is at least a partially intentional attempt to balance the power of the Assassins at the High Lord level.

Sgt John Keel
18-06-2005, 02:51
IIRC, the Templar Psykologis work with psychic disruption and defence for the Imperium. Possibly psychic intelligence too. [Cross ref. Augur Teams] It has nothing to do with physical disruption.

/Adrian

Khaine's Messenger
18-06-2005, 02:58
And the Templar Psykologis?

Paper pushers and artists who load bombs with devotional phamplets and "wouldn't it be great if you put down your weapons, frolicked in a minefield, and/or surrendered?" messages to rain on the enemy. As you can expect, this ends up being incredibly jingoistic, self-centered, and somewhat tongue-in-cheek, because...well...it's hard to convince your opponent that he'd be better off exterminated from galactic history to further mankind's manifest destiny, nevermind the extraordinary feat of convincing unconquered humans that the Imperium is, in fact, a warm and fuzzy place if only they'd give it a fair shake. As you can expect, they would end up being under-funded and ill-at-ease because it's probably staffed by those Munitorum/Adeptus Terra clunkers who didn't have a head for figures (or who had a head for figures but had a few choice words about the wrong person at the wrong time, or perhaps some of the "bright but bashful" of the Diplomatic Corps., or...); those few of them who take their job seriously go at it with gusto, and those few of them who make attempts to actually get in the enemy's head to figure out what sort of cool things they could do to mess with 'em (when "'em" means things that Space Marines like to refer to as "moral threats") are probably the first to get a bolter round to the brain (or the first to be snapped up by Inquisitors for their extensive staffs). The Psykologis on Armageddon were more likely deployed to prevent mass defections and "blackmail" local rabble-rousing hive gangs into working for the Imperium, or counter-psychological operations (after all, you can tell from the example of Acheron that a few gangs at the very least are "short sighted" enough to throw in with the Orks and that, ironically, the Orks themselves possess a modicum of psychological/political warfare ability...perhaps that was Ghazkull more than others).

Or at least if I had anything to say about it, which I don't. It's more likely they have something to do with psychic abilities.

Berynius
18-06-2005, 10:23
I do not think that the Templar Psykologis is entirely devoted to psychological warfare.
Look in the Eye of Terror Codex... they are listed as having deployed Disruption Squads and Auger Teams.
Now if theire focus is on psychological warfare i would think that 37 squads and 6 teams are a bit on the small side to cover a the fighting that took/is taking place during the 13th black Cursade.

If how ever that they are psykers the small numbers deployed makes sense. So here is may interpretation of hte units mentioned.

Disruption Squad: Highly specialised psykers that create a disruption in the immarterium, making it difficult to use psi powers/sorcery. These squads are only deployed when there is a serious psyhic threat to the Imperium.

Auger Teams: Highly sensitive psykers that function as oracles, whoose job it to divine hte ememy's plan/next move.

Sai-Lauren
20-06-2005, 09:21
Paper pushers and artists who load bombs with devotional phamplets and "wouldn't it be great if you put down your weapons, frolicked in a minefield, and/or surrendered?" messages to rain on the enemy.
And probably everything else from organising the contamination of food supplies so the enemy go hungry, to seeding the atmosphere with rain-causing agents so they are cold, miserable and soaked to the skin all the time. Find the enemies weak-points and press one after the other.

Add into that psychic and electronic disruption of enemy command, code breaking, strategic predictions and possibly even interrogation of prisoners.

Oh, and Chimeras with big speakers playing "We're going to cut..." :p