PDA

View Full Version : Help required on some artwork.



Lord Dante
28-07-2006, 09:52
Hope this is the right place to ask.

Ok im making a 3D model of Marneus Calgar, and im currently in the blocking out stage, so no texture work gos in yet, its just getting everything ready.

Anyhows im using this image for inspiration.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/p3x789/MarneusCalgar.jpg

heres where im at:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/markpatterson007/Marine08.jpg

Now my question is - whats on the right shoulder above the reef? is it an Imperial eagle?
And below the eagle seems to be a flat disc shape - whats there?

Any help is much appreciated.

ghost hunter
28-07-2006, 11:06
Thats a nice model you got there can i be so ignorant as to ask what it is for?

Yes it is an imperial eagle (i think i dont have the model but hey ) and i will try and find out what the other thing is my guess it is a plate to put a text of somesort (e.g. for the emperor)

edit: hmmm dosent show either on the model

Lord Dante
28-07-2006, 11:18
Cheers - Im going to wrap an eagle over the top of the shoulder (no easy task)
And I have Round plate on the shoulder to aswell now.

Im considering a Ultra logo embossed into the round plate area?

Instead of doing my normall 3D work which is a bit boring and generaly involves kitchens or mechanical things I thought id do a SM - and a big complex one to. If it turns out really nice and I really want it to be like a photo im going to send it of to GW and see if they want buy it... id Love it in poster form I have a grand Idea for it.

Probably 100+ hours to go that at least.

thanks for the help :)

ghost hunter
28-07-2006, 14:56
no problem anytime.

id hang that on my wall anyday ;)

Lord Dante
31-07-2006, 11:42
Still working away on it - the changes here are not so obvious as they are mainly lots of lil polygon cuts and movements to smooth things out etc...

The eagle on the right shoulder is stil missing because ive made a few that dont fit and have decided to construct one where the Beak of the eagle flowd down over the top of the flat disc area.

theres some colour changes that I feel look better the garish UltraMarine blue and is in fact a direct copy of the Blue D.G used in his MC image from the SM dex.

Long way to go but I thought id show some of the progress.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/markpatterson007/Marine12.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/markpatterson007/Marine11.jpg

Sick
31-07-2006, 11:46
Just to get subscribed to the thread. :p

Good work!

Lastie
31-07-2006, 13:30
Excellent work LD. I look forward to seeing how this goes. May I ask what software you're using?

cav da man
31-07-2006, 20:07
nice, im not being mean or anything but it all looks very blocky. wish i could do stuff like that, youre right the original blue was just to blue

Stahlgeist
31-07-2006, 22:26
Do you have the old Marneus Calgar mini for reference? Not the real old one where he looks like he's on a little bench seat, the one with the Gauntlets of Ultramar? See attached...

PS Sneak in over night and Rapid P this baby! Screw the boss & his rules!

TheSonOfAbbadon
01-08-2006, 00:43
I like it so far, but he really needs to be looking down a bit, and he also needs to look angry, then his head will look way better.

Lord Dante
02-08-2006, 10:34
Cheers for the comments - The head is just there for scale right now I have another head ill be using for the actuall finnished model. - the head im using is just somthing I have on file and stuck in for scale.

The software im using is 3D Studio Max 8 - the rendering software is called Final Render v3 and Photoshop will be used for texturing as per the norm for this kind of work.

Im mainly using Dave G's artwork from the SM Dex as a reference and for basic proportions a SM mini and a tiny ruler :p

Once all the moddeling work is complete then ill pose him into somthing more dramatic add some war torn landscape or perhaps just something more mood setting - im not too sure about this bit yet but its easy work in comparison to building old MC.

Romanus
02-08-2006, 10:55
Very nice, keep up the good work. Not much other then that other than i'm looking forward to seeing the end result.

Cheers, Romanus

Lord Dante
02-08-2006, 14:08
Testing the idea of poses.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/markpatterson007/Marinepose01.jpg

Whats interesting about SM armour is that when u model and put it together on a screen u realise the legs dont fit into the crotch unless they are postioned in a horse stance!

Ah well... righto back to the model - Im going to model the Left leg with eagles and stuff - should look nice.

Sephiroth
02-08-2006, 14:11
One of the things I don't like about that particular piece of art for Marneus Calgar, is how top-heavy it makes him. I mean, look at the size and the thickness of his shoulder-guards compared to his graves! :eek:

Lord Dante
02-08-2006, 14:13
The difference between the pads and the legs is off I agree but on the other hand I really like the size of the shoulder pads...

So, Im going to bulk at the bottom leg plates Terminator style with added bits of plate and golden birds motifs etc...

U wanna see the size of the Gauntlets...

Sephiroth
02-08-2006, 16:17
The difference between the pads and the legs is off I agree but on the other hand I really like the size of the shoulder pads...

Do you mean size, or thickness? I agree, I can live with the overall size of the shoulder-guards, but look at the thickness of them!

It's one of the things I love and hate about Space Marines - they look so very cool, but when you stop and think about the proportions...

Look at the length of Marneus' shoulders in the original image! If his shoulder joints are under the 'inner-shoulderguard', he's got a build like the increadible hulk without his armour!


So, Im going to bulk at the bottom leg plates Terminator style with added bits of plate and golden birds motifs etc...

Sounds like a plan.


U wanna see the size of the Gauntlets...

I do actually. :D

I personally find this the most well proportioned Space Marine image I've seen from GW lately:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v289/Zekk/Tyra_Hunter.jpg

Lord Dante
02-08-2006, 16:42
I agree - thats one of the few images that actually looks plausible in respects to where the shoulders should be.

I think alot of the time with SM they draw the suit of armour and everything looks to be anatomically correct - then they stick a human head on...and it looks wrong...

So im trying to find some sort of trade off - Oe thing I love about the DG image is all the small pipes leading to the under arm/pad area - I love that kind of detail it makes the suits of armour feel more alive.
I was tempted by the orginal front cover image, and still am so I expect a few details will crop up here and there - the Belt for example on the frontcover looks better IMO and looking at other members of the honour guard I intend to add more fancy thrills to MC armour in my rendition.

My overall aim for this bit of work is to achive somthing ive yet to see in W40k artwork and I really hope in the end I can achive somthing almost photo realisitc - theres a long way to go and I havent that much spare time but ill work on this when I can.

Id consider it around 20% finnished so far - ive added legs today, but like many parts they are just 'place holders' it gives me somthing to work with and manipulate and is common in 3d work.

Right now im moddeling MC head, and then I can wire in his Targeter etc..

cav da man
02-08-2006, 20:20
i would love to have the finished version on my pc, that would be great to look at every time you log onto your pc.
The problem with that picture is the way the shoulder pads are almost on the same level as his head, i can see it being correct but it just doesnt seem right to me

Stahlgeist
02-08-2006, 21:01
I agree - thats one of the few images that actually looks plausible in respects to where the shoulders should be.

My overall aim for this bit of work is to achive somthing ive yet to see in W40k artwork and I really hope in the end I can achive somthing almost photo realisitc - theres a long way to go and I havent that much spare time but ill work on this when I can.



It's a bit like the hands on the David, the exaggeration of proportions - it's for dramatic effect of course.

Photo realism can be a nice rigorous exercise, but ultimately I find it's not as visually appealing, or effective in communicating, as creative license.

Art is the lie that tells a greater truth.

Lord Dante
02-08-2006, 21:30
I guess when I mean photo-realism its like the Blur Dawn of war cinematic or the one for the Chaos rising on the PC.

It looks real yet theres artistic license, its balance im quite used to having to meet over the years of producing CG work (mainly because utter photo-realistic work isnt yet possible...)

Stahlgeist
02-08-2006, 22:32
Ah. That was pretty impressive CG, wasn't it?

(Hated the voice work, though. That yell of "INCOMING" (at the beginning) cracked in the middle, making the SM sound almost panicky. And the inarticulate yell from the sergeant as he commands a counter-charge - I would have preferred a "For the Emperor!" or something.)

Have you thought about using 3D for the armor & setting, and maybe painting/compositing in the head for a more organic look? Or would that be too jarring a contrast I wonder?

Lord Dante
02-08-2006, 23:36
Off the top of my head (because my art of W40k book has gone AWOL from my desk) a Mr Langley? uses alot of Photoshop manipulatio of photos to create his artwork and in a sense i will be using photo images to do my work.

Problem if u do the head from a photo - whilst i can match it to my model in PS - Is Im fixed to a single angle for my finnished image. Thats not so much a of an issue because my finnished image is just a static...

This will sound anal, from a 3D perspective I should model everything on the image, from every eagle to ever scratch & dent in the armour, if not to prove I can to the community but I just feel to do this piece justice I need to...

In regards to photo-realism I point to www.cgtalk.com if you can take a look at some of 3d gallery there you will see many fantasy works in there. Now whilst they are not 'real' so to speak the level of work in detail from every band of armour to every piece of dirt is somthing I really strive to achive.

My normall work is normaly in the field of product design and this allows my creative side to flow, as an artist thats how I always feel.

I really do hope to achive somthing here, a piece of work that I can be prud of and somthing that I hope the W40k world will love aswell because the artwork of W40k has given me so much insperation, from Jhon.B to Mark.G and most rencently, and i cant praise him enough, Karl Kopinsky...

Theres along way to go because intend that every single band of gold will be embossed with tiny details - his face scared with war, and his armour atoned with the Emperors might...

I hope to be showing off some leg imagery tommorow and I will be adding different symbols, id really love feedback on what to add, what i shouldnt add and if everyone likes the direction the piece is taking.

Thanks for all the imput it keeps me going - polygon works is a very slow ordeal... :)

Romanus
03-08-2006, 04:03
Hey, hust went throught the site u listed, and theres some amazing images there. I think if u can get it close to the image "last knight" then you'll be doing really well. Think if u take it to far, some of the effectiveness may be taken from the image.

Cheers, Romanus

Adept
03-08-2006, 05:29
I agree - thats one of the few images that actually looks plausible in respects to where the shoulders should be.

Well, I prefer to imagine that the process of creating a Marine leads to significantly broader body structure, ala Phillip Sibbering's vision.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Adepts_album/marine.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c89/Adepts_album/marine2.jpg

Darthvegeta800
03-08-2006, 17:04
Well i like the art so far. Btw... interesting pics on the bodysize of Marines.

cav da man
03-08-2006, 21:16
i think the shoulders is the problem area for marines, i like the idea that the process would make the shoulders substantially bigger but not that big, thats going a bit too far

Grand Duke
03-08-2006, 23:35
In reality (irony?) space marines are genetic monsters... One reason why I've never liked space marines is I've never been able to visualize them. I'm having challenges reading the Horus Heresy because it's hard picturing 7'6" foot tall men let alone 9 foot tall primarchs.

Thanks, those anatomy images help a lot.

I enjoy the cg. unfortunately I'm one of those visually depended so without the textures the image looks bland -_-

I have to admit though, for the frame work of the picture... the shoulder pads look low. Not to big, or to thick, just low. Oh, and I want to see the ginormous gauntlets of his!

Tyron
03-08-2006, 23:42
I think the comparrisons are really amazing but they seem way too bulky for a marine, more liek the hulk. In the line up picture i would presume they fit more of the basket ball player. To mee it just feels more right, but then it would make terminator armour look weird.

Good job none the less! :D

Grand Duke
03-08-2006, 23:53
I think the comparrisons are really amazing but they seem way too bulky for a marine, more liek the hulk. In the line up picture i would presume they fit more of the basket ball player. To mee it just feels more right, but then it would make terminator armour look weird.

Good job none the less! :D

Based on the image that Sephiroth posted I'd say the 7'6" basket ball player is more accurate. Based off of the other 99% of art featuring Space Marines I'd say the Hulk looking fellow is more accurate.

Again, genetic monsters, warrior beasts... Chances of a Space Marine looking a little... well, not normal, is very likely. The image reinforces my reason for not liking them.

Tyron
04-08-2006, 01:14
This is another good example.

Edit:However I think the size of the hand and arm is too small. Oh and the helmet.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v374/Morithacus/marine.jpg

Lord Dante
15-08-2006, 22:38
Still working on this - loads of texture tests and lots of trinkets...not to mention cables and chains using physics...

the final image will be one of Marneus in the Tyranic war - so his armour will look a bit beaten up.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/markpatterson007/Marinepose03.jpg

Kegluneq
15-08-2006, 23:32
Well, I prefer to imagine that the process of creating a Marine leads to significantly broader body structure, ala Phillip Sibbering's vision.
I think he goes a little too broad there (there's barely any thickness to the armour in his interpretations) but he's on the right track - somewhere between his marine and the basketball player is probably about right.

Stahlgeist
16-08-2006, 17:33
The broadness may be due to the camera "lens" being in wide angle to get the whole thing in one frame?

Texture on the ornamentation is pretty nice - wish I could paint like that in mini scale...

Edit - sorry, thought you were talking about the newly posted render!

Lord Dante
16-08-2006, 18:00
That pad does look large'r at that angle but its mainly due to being so close to the camera etc.
I was mainly checking my dirt maps were in the right place - horrid render times already tho 1h 45mins per frame.

Lord Dante
16-08-2006, 21:31
Out of all the seals, crux terminatus and stuff ive been making heres part of MC dagger - this is the hilt of the weapon and is probably just for show etc... but its all in the detail...

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b115/markpatterson007/swordhilt.jpg

Skrittiblak
17-08-2006, 15:04
Looking good Dante!