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the spook
29-07-2006, 08:56
Hi all,

I'm writing a Sci-fi story and i'm having a bit of problems with a character, so i thought i'd get some input from you by putting it into 40k terms.

What would you do, being much as you are in your real lives, if you found yourself living on an imperial world that has been taken over by the likes of the Tau or the Eldar? Would you try to live a normal life? Would you try to help overthrow the strange creatures running things? Would you try to escape somehow?

What would be the most plausible thing to do, knowing what you know of the imperium and the Tau / Eldar. What would YOU do if you suddenly found yourself there...

Any and all ideas are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Spook

Dark Apostle197
29-07-2006, 09:18
If there was an inquisitor around I would probabaly go with trying to over throw them, because more than likely I will die if I go against the Inquisitor. Otherwise, if I had no military training whatsoever and no guns... I would probabaly live the most normal like... You know, as normal as you can get living with aliens in 40k..

Captain Loken
29-07-2006, 09:40
If it were Tau I would probably live a normal life and work for the greater good until the imperium came back and retook the world then I would reside with the Immortal God Emperor. Eldar are a different story however, and I would fight to the bitter end before submiting to those arrogent elves.

Khaine's Messenger
29-07-2006, 13:53
What would be the most plausible thing to do, knowing what you know of the imperium and the Tau / Eldar. What would YOU do if you suddenly found yourself there...

There are a few options (although the list is by no means exhaustive)--
1) Resist. Human sovereignty is a massively important cause and the domination of the xeno should be resisted at all turns--their alien minds cannot comprehend the human, and as such there is no reason for them to assume they can govern us or remain in a superior position for long without a great number of humans rising up in defiance. This planet is "ours" and anyone who contests the claim is in the Wrong and must be Punished. See also--national identity + geo/astropolitics.

2) Incorporate. It's the NWO, and there's no end in sight because the enemy has a superior position ("nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure")--you might as well make the best of it, either by chumming up to your new Alien Overlords or by selling out anyone who takes option (1) because they'll only make the situation bad for you. If you do a good job of it, you can make your world's position really good on the inside. The politics of it would be fun to say the least...but at the base level you are, it's unlikely you'd get to make that sort of decision.

3) Ignore it. This depends in some measure on how the aliens came to possess this world. If it was a hiccup of "we're in charge now," then it's quite possible there are a few purges going around at the top levels and some investigations going on at the bottom levels, but so far as anyone else cares, it's situation normal. The Greater Good gets their tithe, the Imperium gets their tithe...who cares?

4) Reactionary phenomena. A variation on (1)--people roll over and accept the occupation as a physical reality but refuse to accept the notion that it will change the Grand Plan as they perceive it. The Emperor will return, these are our few days of temptation in Hell before the triumphant return of the Imperium's holy light...we must persevere and plan for that eventuality. For the Day of the Emperor cometh as a Thief in the Night.

I'd probably fall into a mixture of (3) and (2), personally, with a smattering of (4)...although I might not have the conviction to pass on that sort of faith to my children.

And it should be noted that a lot of these apply even in terms of Ork conquest...Orks are perfectly capable of using diplomacy when they remember how to pronounce it.

Tyron
29-07-2006, 14:00
If they give me a better life then my previous, I welcome them.

Lostanddamned
29-07-2006, 17:04
In the 40k setting should aliens take control of the planet I would first pray that it was the tau.

Then there are 3 options based on the race

1. Its the tau - YAY! I would unquestioningly join the greater good
2. Its the Eldar - Gah! Its time to do the best I can to fight back
3. Its the Necrons/Orks/Dark Eldar/Tyranids - ****** this! I'm off to swallow a shotgun and make life easier for myself.

the spook
29-07-2006, 17:06
Good answers so far, especially Khaine... the other thing thats been going through my mind in this whole thing is parallels the current problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. In both countries, the invading army was welcomed, but then it quickly turned to insurgency.

Do you think this the result of incompentence on the invader, or is it sheer get those foriegn boogers out of here, we want to run our own lives sorf of thing. Is it a cultural responce or a religious one?

Again, in context of Imperial culture & religion, ie. extreme xenophobia, and fear of being killed for collaborating with the enemy lest the empire return, would this inspire rebellion or the want to join the greater good.

Tanith Ghost
29-07-2006, 17:30
I can say, in all cases, I take the path of resisting.
I'd rather die fighting than listen to those smug blue runts spouting off about how the greater good is the bees knees.

Same with eldar- if you're so ******* smart WTF happened to YOUR big deal empire? Oh that's right, you LOST is because you got so carried away
screwing and ODing on drugs. At least we don't strut round like we own the place(and we DO own the place, xeno. You just live here).

As for the others, like hell am I sticking around for the aftermath of the others. I'll die fighting for the Emperor and save my soul from the c'tan and chaos gods.

Hideous Loon
29-07-2006, 20:50
I for one welcome our new pointy-eared overlords. ;)

Seriously, though, I'd act welcoming to them if they were Tau and suicidal if they were something else, eat a shotgun (also known as the Hemingway method) so I wouldn't have to deal with them.

supp
29-07-2006, 21:44
What a cool concept, spook. I like the idea of parallel with current world situation.
I would try to adapt and sabotage at the same time. I think it depends on what the invaders plans are – quick victory, making most of it and moving on or are they there to settle and rule.
There are also the examples of totalitarian regimes, people have to live with it, they don’t like it and so they try to do small damage over time. But that’s probably not as exciting for your scifi story…

nurgleman
29-07-2006, 22:26
I would ally with taus if it was them. unlike the other races, they do not want to kill everyone. everyone else, I would fight like crazy.

Puddy
29-07-2006, 22:35
Well, I wouldn't kill myself, then the evil gods get to play with my soul since, in my opinion, suicide isn't a very heroic thing to do.

But it very much comes down to details, do I have access to weaponry, are there others that can join my cause, is it a contested planet that likely will be conquered once again etc.

But fight seems like a good option :)

the spook
30-07-2006, 05:08
details?

I'm sure you could suppose that it would be very similar to Iraq right now, what, three years after the end of the war? You'd probably be living in a demilitarized area, so while you may not have your hands on military grade equipement leftover from the old regime (in this case the Imperium), you probably know someone who knows someone who could.

Again, assuming that other people are like you me and Joe blow, peoples reaction on this very thread would be a good example of how most people would react, ie. 70% of people don't care as long as the streets are safe and the water and lights are wroking, 15% would happily embrace the new rulers, and the other 15% will fight them to the death.

The other 70% involvement in the matter depends on how well the day to day stuff runs in comparison to the old regime. If they ****** it up, then you'll probably see another 15% join the cause. If they do a good job, that 15% will join the tau/eldar huggers...

As for contested planet, you really wouldn't know any better than what the propagandists from both sides tell you, so you'd pretty much have to assume you were on your own.

Maybe if you fight they'll do what the romans used to do, kill off all the males over the age of eight. They figured anyone older than that will remember 'the good old days' and continue to fight, and that women in general will do anything they can to keep their families alive, so they won't fight back. Would such a threat or action work today or in the future? I think that may be up for debate.

Splagbot
30-07-2006, 13:41
I'd like to say I'm chilled out enough to just let it slide, but I'd resist for the following reasons:-

1) Tau are too nice, it'd be like living with hippies (granted militant hippies), I hate hippies, I hate them!

2) Eldar are bunch of snooty ponces who screwed up the Galaxy for everyone else and created probably the biggest hippy of them all, that's right Slaanesh, I'm talking about you.

the dark angel
30-07-2006, 14:14
i tell you what id do if the tau came knocking on the door id do this:

*KNOCK KNOCK*

me:-who is it?

tau:-the greater good,we rule this planet know

me:-one minute!

tau:-huray up!

me:-im coming *opens door* EAT THIS ALIEN SCUM! *fires a shot gun at the tau* BOOM* *pickes up pulse rifle* know eat your own s**t! *kills a lot of tau!* haha haa!

tau:-o god!thats our s**t, take cover!

me:-mwuhahahaha

Damien 1427
30-07-2006, 14:28
Run for the hills and live the life of a crazy old hermit, in the case of the Tau. Odds are they won't care.

hellfire
30-07-2006, 14:31
If any xenos took over a planet that I was on I'd probably run up to their supreme commander while he was giving some kind of "new rulers" speech or something, pull a little string on my backpack and blow both of us into small pieces.
If I couldn't do this I'd grab a shot gun and get to work killing some souless xenos scum

P.S. If it were the dark eldar I'd eat a shotgun

Dspankdo
30-07-2006, 14:48
Theres only one thing to do, start a chaos cult

Tanith Ghost
30-07-2006, 19:07
On a tau world? Daemon apocolypse inbound.:evilgrin: Hope you tau have a hotline to the Grey Knights.

Pain
30-07-2006, 21:12
...parallels the current problems in Iraq and Afghanistan. In both countries, the invading army was welcomed, but then it quickly turned to insurgency.


*cough* ... the invading army was not welcomed in Iraq, the so called US-"experts"/government-guys said the iraqis would wave flowers and welcome the US-Soldiers - instead they waved with lots of bombs, mines and kalashnikovs ... 'till today.

Similar things would happen when a Xeno-Species invaded an imperial planet that was under imperial control for hundreds of years. The imperial propaganda/xenophobia is so deeply ingrained in the heads of the population that some sort of iraqi-style imperial-jihad is very likely.

Okuto
30-07-2006, 21:25
I'd be pretty happy if they were Tau, don't know about Elder though..

I mean....the Tau will treat me better, they'll let me have a more free thinking mind. Overall, I'd welcome the Tau, the elder, I wouldn't look too kindly as they look lowly upon us though....

starlight
30-07-2006, 21:39
Join the resistance, kill the Xenos.:D

(hopefully score some pulse weapons and a rail rifle or two;))

Chem-Dog
30-07-2006, 22:41
Interestingly, the Tau still allow worship of the God-Emperor, they have no interests in bending the will of men.
I doubt life under the Tau would be any worse than it would under the rule of the Imperium and most civillians would be able to go about their lives with a minimum of difficulty or interuption, the Tau value life and would prefer to take territory peacefully, although any partizan activity is likely to find itself on the wrong end of a couple of hundred Pules Rifles.

It's worth pointing out that occupying forces always have a hard time of things as even (seemingly) freindly and accepting locals can harbour grudges and assist in terrorist acts.

ThorOdensson
30-07-2006, 23:26
I think it dosent matter what you do cause if the imperium returns you'll most likely be exterminated or conscripted and sent on suicide missions to remove any xenos taint left on the population as a result of the xenos rule, but this all depends on how long you were under xenos control.

I'd probably resist because if i was an imperial citizen i would be predisposed to hate and revile the xenos and kill them without question for they will destroy us all.

vampires are cool!
30-07-2006, 23:26
lead a normal life on the serface, but at night i become the phantom! the tau/eldar busting vigalanty who takes on his prey one on one, man to xenos!

Eetion
30-07-2006, 23:33
For me it depends on the method in which the world was subjagated.
For example, setting up shop after a major natural disaster in which Tau forces helped the local populace, i would tolerate them, as long as freedom and liberties remained at least at status quo.
If the planet was subjagated then i would fight. Id take to the hills (the peak district in Derbyshire for me) or the depths of a city (call me sewer boy). Although presently i am Gun less i would have to resort to Close quater fighting....a knife in the back is just as good. (Anyone seen the film Red Dawn? thats what im talking about)
God im glad i took all those martial arts classes....you never know when the Tau are gonna invade.

Brother Smith
31-07-2006, 02:23
The imperial propaganda/xenophobia is so deeply ingrained in the heads of the population that some sort of iraqi-style imperial-jihad is very likely.

I would say the propogandised culture stereotypical of the Imperium is only present in it's purest, unmolested and unmutated form in about 30-35% of Imperial worlds.

Most people would be too busy toiling/fighting/hunting or simply not on a heavily imperial influenced planet.

notdakuningist
31-07-2006, 02:32
I agree that it would depend on the world and the circumstances surrounding the change. There are probably some worlds in the far flung corners of the imperium that would agree more with the tau philosophy than the imperial one.

Tanith Ghost
31-07-2006, 03:58
I doubt life under the Tau would be any worse than it would under the rule of the Imperium and most civillians would be able to go about their lives with a .

To admit defeat is to blaspheme against the Emperor
-Roboute Gulliman

Adept
31-07-2006, 05:58
70% of people don't care as long as the streets are safe and the water and lights are wroking, 15% would happily embrace the new rulers, and the other 15% will fight them to the death.

The other 70% involvement in the matter depends on how well the day to day stuff runs in comparison to the old regime. If they ****** it up, then you'll probably see another 15% join the cause. If they do a good job, that 15% will join the tau/eldar huggers...

You've got to remember though, the Tau aren't like the Eldar or the Imperium. They won't just ask for respect and taxes. They will go into your homes, take any 'extraneous' items you may own for the Greater Good, and reclassify you into some new role.

"Greetings humans! Your life of peaceful existance can continue as part of the Greater Good! Your homes and cities are being destroyed as we speak, and from today anwards you will be honourable members of our working caste! You will no longer be paid a wage, as all your needs will be taken care of by the Tau collective!"

Xisor
31-07-2006, 10:30
They won't just ask for respect and taxes. They will go into your homes, take any 'extraneous' items you may own for the Greater Good, and reclassify you into some new role.

So if the Tau land here on Earth, they'll waltz into Professor Stephen Hawking's home, steal his house and books and tell him he's now been reclassified from 'Eminent Theoretical Physicist' to...what, exactly? Highway Maintainence Technician?

********. If the Tau take over Earth they'll cut the crap out of alot of Governments,instate *proper* govermnents in places and straighten out alot of things. They may indeed be taking away some freedoms now but if we learn the system, we'd end up with more freedom...

For instance, I myself'd try and blag a flight off world, maybe try'n find some Demiurg to find out about them.

If it was any other galactic Empire....I dunno.

Xisor

Faolin
31-07-2006, 10:34
You should clarify whether you meant "what would an Imperial do" or "what would YOU do". In the case of the latter, I'd welcome the Tau with open arms. Their society isn't really evil (unless you are on the oppositie side) and they would in all probability make life better. No more crime, warfare, governments more concerned with power then the people, etc, etc. I daresay that all those living in third - world countries would welcome them with open arms. Whether life would be better for Westerners is a matter for debate.

Does everyone who said they'd fight to the death REALLY think so? You'd rise up against alien overlords who have the power to kill you instantly and easily? Are you REALLY that brave, and that dedicated? I know I'm not. Espescially with a race like the Tau. I'd only consider rising up if life was definetley hell under the new regime.

Gen.Steiner
31-07-2006, 10:45
As a loyal servant of the God-Emperor of Humanity, whose Divine, Right and True purpose it is to rule the galaxy and sweep it clean of the Xenos, the Heretic and the Traitor...

...I would fight and die. Simple as that. The Imperium of Humanity is not like our world. It is more like being a Catholic in 1092, even on the best of planets, or for a more modern version, like being a member of the Communist Party in 1938 under Stalin.

fracas
31-07-2006, 11:26
continue to do what i do every night:
plot to gain world domination

bertcom1
31-07-2006, 12:24
Thing is with the Tau is that the Ethereals have the monopoly on interpreting "the greater good".

You have to ask who benefits the most from "the greater good"

No questioning or dissent from the Ethereal opinion is allowed. It is all dismissed with "You are not capable enough to see the bigger picture, so cannot understand why this must be done" or "You are a threat to the greater good".

Non-Tau never hold positions of any real authority. Human planets under the Tau will never have a government made up of humans.

The Tau need subjects that are superior to what they have available. Scientists and manual labourers they have plenty of, in the form of Tau scientists and drones. What reason would there be to allow humans off their world? They aren't good for much compared with Tau or drones.

Humans are only really useful to the Tau in the form of auxilliary soldiers and not much else. However, Human worlds are quite useful in that the humans do much of the manual labour that would otherwise be done by drones. Automating the industry with drones would provide a large amount of surplus population that are only useful as 2nd line infantry. The Tau do not need armies that big yet, so human planets act as a reserve.


To be a human on a Tau controlled world is worse than being a subject of the Imperium. You are really only of use as a soldier, to be sent to fight and die on distant worlds. Worse than the Imperium, because the Imperium has use for humans who are not soldiers. The Tau do not. And also, to be an Imperial subject is to be sent to fight and die for Humanity. To be a Tau subject is to be sent to fight and die for the benefit of people who are not even human.

So being a subject of the Tau is not as rosy a prospect as some seem to think.

Eetion
31-07-2006, 12:35
continue to do what i do every night:
plot to gain world domination


"What are we gonna do tonight Brain"
"The Same thing we do every night! TRY TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD!"
"nARF"

While i dont think that Humans sole use are as soldiers, Bertcom makes a valid point, that the chances are the fit and able bodied are drafted into the forces.
I also believe there would be a human government for a human world but this would be little more than a puppet state where they are subservient to a Tau Ambassador in every aspect of life.

Adept
31-07-2006, 13:07
So if the Tau land here on Earth, they'll waltz into Professor Stephen Hawking's home, steal his house and books and tell him he's now been reclassified from 'Eminent Theoretical Physicist' to...what, exactly? Highway Maintainence Technician?

No. They'll put him where they want him, and he'll do what he's told. For the greater good.


********. If the Tau take over Earth they'll cut the crap out of alot of Governments,instate *proper* govermnents in places and straighten out alot of things.

Only so long as we continue to serve the greater good. Proper government? If you believe the role of a proper government is to micro-manage the lives of it's citizens, then yes. If by 'straighten out alot of things' you mean remove all personal choice and freedom, then yes.


For instance, I myself'd try and blag a flight off world, maybe try'n find some Demiurg to find out about them.

How? Why would the Tau let you off-world? They can't guarantee you won't escape, and you'll be a useful worker. You'll go where they want you to go, and do what they tell you. For the greater good, of course.

Sick
31-07-2006, 13:13
I would call for an Exterminatus and watch the firework.

What? I'm on the planet?

*****!!!

Sephiroth
31-07-2006, 13:15
"Greetings humans! Your life of peaceful existance can continue as part of the Greater Good! Your homes and cities are being destroyed as we speak, and from today anwards you will be honourable members of our working caste! You will no longer be paid a wage, as all your needs will be taken care of by the Tau collective!"

Um, they haven't ever put aliens into one of their Castes, apart from a possible sixth Caste which is everything 'Non-Tau'. You don't see Kroot in the Fire Caste.

Tau seem to make minimal difference to whatever they encounter; they find out what it is you're good at, then you proceed to do it. For the Greater Good.

For me personally, if the Tau (or any alien) invade and conquers the planet? Well given that the Imperium will kill me or send me to a Penal Legion for having allowed aliens to subjagate me, I suppose helping said alien Overlords or dying is the only options left.

Sandlemad
31-07-2006, 13:15
I think this kind of event would be a wonderful chance to get in touch with your inner crazy old hermit. And what better place to do this than in the wilderness!

Seriously though, what do you reckon would happen to technological progress? Obviously, most extreme weapons projects would be shut down and I would expect mass destruction weapons to be confiscated.
But what of the space program? What of alternative energy sources? How much of a "technology boost" do the tau typically give to vassal planets?

the spook
01-08-2006, 00:58
Do you really think of the Imperium as a place where they do anything new with technology? If anything, i can see the Tau actually kickstarting some human brains in the world, and maybe even reintroduce some proper education back into the human sphere, if only accidentaly.

Tanith Ghost
01-08-2006, 02:07
Does everyone who said they'd fight to the death REALLY think so? You'd rise up against alien overlords who have the power to kill you instantly and easily? Are you REALLY that brave, and that dedicated?

In a word, yes.

I don't bow terrorists attacking my city. I don't cower to bullies. I refuse to be pushed around no matter how ovrmatched I may be.
All of this is rival humans as the antagonist. I certainly won't bow to some smug alien sack of crap spouting off about some commie in space government.
Only in death does duty end, and against the tau my duty is to kill for the Emperor and do everything in my power to kick the foul xeno off my world.

Chew on that, colaborators with the enemy.

Outlaw289
01-08-2006, 03:54
I would resist. As a human now, I wouldn't accept the authority of a collectivist alien species. As an Imperial Citizen, that fury would probably be tenfold.

They're aliens. They are not to be trusted. Surely, through collaboration I would only be used as a tool to further the enemy's ends and to put the enemy in a stronger position, which consequently endangers my billions of human brothers elsewhere in the galaxy.

As an Imperial Citizen, it would be my utmost duty to resist until my mortal body no longer can. To stock weaponry, to marshal the faithful and stoic fellow citizens, and to attack and raid the enemy until their defeat is the duty of every citizen in such a situation. To fight and kill the Xeno is the highest duty to the Emperor, and honors the countless sacrifices of my trillion countless brothers and sisters who gave their lives and more for His Glory.

Never contemplate heresy. Never lower oneselves to the status of a tool for the duplicitous xeno. Resistance is the only way!

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 08:20
I would resist. As a human now, I wouldn't accept the authority of a collectivist alien species. As an Imperial Citizen, that fury would probably be tenfold.

They're aliens. They are not to be trusted. Surely, through collaboration I would only be used as a tool to further the enemy's ends and to put the enemy in a stronger position, which consequently endangers my billions of human brothers elsewhere in the galaxy.

As an Imperial Citizen, it would be my utmost duty to resist until my mortal body no longer can. To stock weaponry, to marshal the faithful and stoic fellow citizens, and to attack and raid the enemy until their defeat is the duty of every citizen in such a situation. To fight and kill the Xeno is the highest duty to the Emperor, and honors the countless sacrifices of my trillion countless brothers and sisters who gave their lives and more for His Glory.

Never contemplate heresy. Never lower oneselves to the status of a tool for the duplicitous xeno. Resistance is the only way!

Quoted for truth.

Hate, hate, hate! This is our mantra.
Resist, resist, resist! This is our duty.

Gae'Mot
01-08-2006, 09:27
I'd mind my own bussiness. I don't think Tau would be tyrannical like the eldar or imperium would be.
But I'd be smart enough to stay away from the borders of the empire^^

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 09:29
Traitor to your race! Traitor! *points and glares*

Heretic xenos-lover. Your time will come... :p

Gae'Mot
01-08-2006, 09:36
I'm an opportunist, what can I say?^^
How can I be a traitor to some cause I've never pledged allegeance to?

Anyhow, I'll be waiting for the Inquisition with a six pack, a sandwish and a shotgun:p

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 09:45
No, you're a traitor to your race, e.g. Humanity. Unless you're not human? Anyway, the Inquisition will not be put off by sandwiches! Unless they're egg and cress, apparently the Ordo Hereticus remit doesn't include egg and cress.

Gae'Mot
01-08-2006, 12:32
I wouldn't call it betrayal to humanity. Not every human being in the 40k universe is an imperium enthousiast, and against the imperium doesn't mean against mankind. That's what the imperium uses in it's propaghanda.
And who knows: mankind's chances of survival may be a lot higher under the wings of a dynamic tau empire.
An alliance of the complete human and tau race will probably be able to neutralize any enemy. It might outlast all other races^^
Just allow the necrons to close the eye of terror, then clear them with some hi-tech überweapon (2 enemies defeated), let the eldar die out (3, they were too proud to join the human/tau alliance anyway), develop some artificial virus against the tyranids or lure the hive fleets in dense ork populated area's (4 or 5), ...
And afterwards we can always stab them in the back^^ And thus, mankind will prevail once more and be able to fight among themselves like good old times.

I bet the emperor would eat egg and cress sandwishes.

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 12:36
Har har har.

Without the unification of the Human worlds under some form of centralised body, be that an imperialist totalitarian theocratic dictatorship (the Imperium) or a happy-clappy self-defence collective, we're screwed. Thus, being against said centralised body is being against the best interests of humanity, e.g. our continued survival.

The Tau are, as has been stated above, uninterested in humans as anything other than third-rate second-line infantry. That's it. That's all we're good for in their eyes.

Shame on you for having no racial solidarity, sir. Humans first, everything else second.

Gae'Mot
01-08-2006, 12:41
That's because I follow the best interest of a human being, self-preservation^^

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 13:02
Preservation of our species should come before even that! Heretic. :p

Gae'Mot
01-08-2006, 13:15
That's why we should overthrow the imperium anyway:p
The imperium has stopped evolving, while the enemy gains more advantages.
It's like a dying, caged beast unable to accept it's impending demise. It has no use for mankind anymore.

Mankind could benefit from the tau empire. Replace pride with common sense.

I could write Tau propaghanda^^

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 13:28
Rubbish! Humanity would no more benefit from the Tau 'empire' than we would from being enslaved by Orks! The Tau are just as racist and imperialist as the Imperium is, the only difference being that they can't be bothered to expend munitions exterminating the lower races, e.g. us.

The Imperium has problems, yes, this is true. But the Imperium is also the only chance that humanity has to survive! Without the Divine Guidance of the God-Emperor and the High Lords of Terra, human worlds will be swallowed wholesale by the Xenos, the Heretic and the Traitor, and soon there will be no free humans anywhere in the Galaxy.

jfrazell
01-08-2006, 13:31
Help the Tau grow and assimilate more human worlds. Then watch as the Frankenstein they have a created rears its ugly head - a technologically advanced human empire.

Necrons tough....plbbbt Try to be a bad(Censored) when you have billions of plasma/melta spitting, pulse carbine wielding skimmer equipped troops coming at you.

Nid bug situation getting out of hand...no problem with our new ceramite terminator crisis suit legions with twin linked assault cannons with teleporting railgun equipped hammerheads and baneblades.

Orks got your goat? Now with the new mass produced Terra class ships of the line you can safely guard your invasion fleets and quickly remove hard to reach greenskin stains with your manta equipped armored legions.

Indeed could this have been the Eldar induced path of the future?

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 13:36
Help the Tau grow and assimilate more human worlds.

:eek: More heresy! Techno-heresy, blasphemy, xenos-mingling, and treason! Burn and purge, burn and purge!

Honestly. The simple fact is that on a world in the Imperium, the general populace is most likely to fight back, because they've been brought up from birth to hate the Xenos, Heretic and Traitor. Regardless of the rest of their society, they'll be adherents to some form of the Imperial Cult, and very, very few (if any) among them will go "Ooh, I know, I'll support the Tau!"

It'd be like the Pope converting to Islam in the middle of Rome in AD 1034, or Adolf Hitler saying that he really likes the Jews after all, and it was all a terrible mistake.

Akashakarma
01-08-2006, 13:36
What would you do, being much as you are in your real lives, if you found yourself living on an imperial world that has been taken over by the likes of the Tau or the Eldar? Would you try to live a normal life? Would you try to help overthrow the strange creatures running things? Would you try to escape somehow?

What would be the most plausible thing to do, knowing what you know of the imperium and the Tau / Eldar. What would YOU do if you suddenly found yourself there...
Spook
Well let's see here. I'd probably join the Tau. There's no point in re-joining the Imperium even should they return. Assuming that you haven't been killed for your defiance of the Greater Good (they do that too), you're going to be some sort of slave or prisoner. If not, you'll be killed for treachery when the Imperium arrives anyway.

Let's also consider the lifestyle you'd be living in both empires, shall we?
In the Empire of man you'll be enjoying a backwards, hostile existence full of mindless violence and probably gruesome death at the hands of your own people.
On a Tau Sept world you'll be part of a progressive (albeit aggressively-expanding) society that'll value you for your contributions and common sense.
Which would you rather be a part of? :rolleyes:

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 13:38
Well let's see here. I'd probably join the Tau. There's no point in re-joining the Imperium even should they return. Assuming that you haven't been killed for your defiance of the Greater Good (they do that too), you're going to be some sort of slave or prisoner. If not, you'll be killed for treachery when the Imperium arrives anyway.

Let's also consider the lifestyle you'd be living in both empires, shall we?
In the Empire of man you'll be enjoying a backwards, hostile existence full of mindless violence and probably gruesome death at the hands of your own people.
On a Tau Sept world you'll be part of a progressive (albeit aggressively-expanding) society that'll value you for your contributions and common sense.
Which would you rather be a part of? :rolleyes:

The Imperium of Humanity.

Aliens are aliens. Death to them.

Akashakarma
01-08-2006, 13:41
The Imperium of Humanity.

Aliens are aliens. Death to them.
Thanks for that, lol.
Ah! Steiner's got a mole on his neck... it's the mark of the ruinous powers!
Heretic!
Get 'im!
(Just joking, General ;) )

Gae'Mot
01-08-2006, 13:49
You might be joking, but I'd report him as a heretic before he could report me as a traitor:evilgrin:
It's all part of being treacherous scum, getting away with it. Self-preservation^^

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 13:49
Two, actually, and they're both covered by Purity Seals just in case. :p :D

jfrazell
01-08-2006, 13:50
I'm assuming this is after the Tau have captured the planet. If we're running on the British Empire model (vs. the Japanese East Asis Co-Prosperity Sphere which may be more accurate) then, over time, the traditions and veneer of the Tau will flow into the general culture of the conquered worlds. Much like India, capture too many human worlds and you have the tiger by the tail. Let go and he runs away or eats you.

Human worlds without the fear of suspicion, with a culture of engineering and science. Look out universe DAOT is back.

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 13:54
The more accurate model, however, is the Japanese East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere.

I'd rather fight and die against that than bow to some blue-skinned alien scum who's just shot my neighbour for swearing at a passing Ethereal.

jfrazell
01-08-2006, 14:35
Or more likely cracked open his face to get at his gold teeth "for the Greater Good."

If its in that context I'd think you'd see quite few guerilla movements spring up-which occurred vs. that empire.

Gen.Steiner
01-08-2006, 14:37
Hey, don't forget that the British Empire saw a few guerilla movements against it, like, you know, the American Revolution... the First, Second and Third Afghan Wars... the Boer Wars... the Boxer Rebellion... etc. ;)

jfrazell
01-08-2006, 17:47
Good point. Good point. At the same time the Japanese empire created a plethora of guerilla movements immediately.

I would say that once people oppressed under a dictatorship are freed they will support the new regime (initial support from Byelorussia, Georgia, and Ukraine for example to the Germans until they discovered the Germans were terrors for example). However, there have been a variety of counterexamples that support you GS-Iraq being a painful example.

Adept
01-08-2006, 17:52
The Imperium has problems, yes, this is true. But the Imperium is also the only chance that humanity has to survive.

More importantly, the Imperium doesn't want to micro-manage the lives of it's citizens.

Who was it said the nine scariest words in the english language are; "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"?

jimbobodoll
01-08-2006, 18:18
Here is an intersting thought no one has expressed yet regarding an alien empire taking over your planet...

Why not apply the Inquisitor logic to those who would fight? Radicals or traditionalists. Whilst the latter of these may plant bombs, assassinate, seek to destabalise... I can easily easily imagine the radicals praying to any benefactor to come CHANGE things... You know... like almost praying to the LORD OF CHANGE? *huh huh?* I can see Tzeentch cults springing up like wild fire on human worlds...

Oh remember the fluff on black ships monitoring the emergence of psykers... The Tau dont do that... So in a couple of generations you've got uncontrolled psykers drawing warp powers to your planet and next a full scale chaos incursion...

Interesting no?

bertcom1
01-08-2006, 18:25
Who was it said the nine scariest words in the english language are; "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"?

Ronald Reagan.


Ultimately, the Ethereals do not really care whether Humanity lives or dies, so long as it does so for their "greater good".

Look at what they do to the Kroot. They attempt to control them and their instincts, even though that would doom them as a species. Who benefits from that? The Tau get useful troops, and the Kroot face extinction "for the Greater Good". :eyebrows:

Sephiroth
01-08-2006, 18:39
Look at what they do to the Kroot. They attempt to control them and their instincts, even though that would doom them as a species. Who benefits from that? The Tau get useful troops, and the Kroot face extinction "for the Greater Good". :eyebrows:

They haven't stopped them eating people, have they? :eyebrows:

bertcom1
01-08-2006, 18:48
They haven't stopped them eating people, have they? :eyebrows:

No, but they would like to.

This is one of the reasons for the Kroot Mercenaries. The Tau do not put the Kroot into combat enough for the Kroot species to survive.

Forces Unknown
01-08-2006, 19:18
If I was a citizen on an Imperial World invaded by Tau I would hope that they don't begin a systematic extermination of the population as they sometimes do. That way I could conspire to overthrow them with others still loyal to the Golden Throne and rightfully restore Imperial rule.

Ave Imperator!

Dakkagor
01-08-2006, 19:33
I would knuckle down and join the tau empire, and try to get an offworld posting.

The tau empire is alot more kind and considerate than the Imperium, and has more oppertunities. I'd be jumping for joy if the Tau took over my world.

Sephiroth
01-08-2006, 19:35
No, but they would like to.

Well, you see if you'd like someone to do something, but not force them to, it's not 'controlling' them or their instincts.


This is one of the reasons for the Kroot Mercenaries. The Tau do not put the Kroot into combat enough for the Kroot species to survive.

Not really. The reason for Kroot mercenaries is because the Tau ask that the Kroot fight exclusively for them (Asking your allies not to help your enemies? Oh heaven forfend!), but the Kroot have absorbed all the useful traits within the region of the Tau Empire, so they must travel further abroad.

It's got nothing to do with Tau control. Sounds like the Kroot are just want to remain the 'apex' predator.

Sandlemad
01-08-2006, 20:19
The reason for Kroot mercenaries is because the Tau ask that the Kroot fight exclusively for them (Asking your allies not to help your enemies? Oh heaven forfend!), but the Kroot have absorbed all the useful traits within the region of the Tau Empire, so they must travel further abroad.

So the kroot were strong enough to resist the 'wishes' of the empire. It would appear so.
Yes, they're part of the empire. Yes, the tau want them to conform more. But they don't follow the empire's rules. I don't know how much it still is the case but it used to be that the tau weren't even allowed on certain parts of Pech. And it would appear that they honoured this agreement.

Clearly the tau aren't going to impose much of a tau-ification on the kroot or their society. The obvious reason as to why they'd do this is because the kroot provide an important part of the tau war machine.

So, logically, if there is something humanity could provide that would be important to the tau, they would limit their tau-ification and perhaps afford more freedom, closer to the kroot model.
However, to stop their tau-ification, it's likely that this would have to be something that would be negatively affected by extensive interference by the tau.

Problem: Other factors to consider would be that, unlike the vespid, the kroot had a powerful military. And space travel. These could have affected the empire's judgement.
It's debateable as to how strong the human military would be in this situation. And I guess our space travel abilities are, at least compared to the kroot, negligible.

Basically, what I'm saying is that inclusion into the tau empire does not necessarily mean that we'll be subjected to a totalitarian regime of oppression. We could very well be left alone.

So, opinions? Does humanity have anything of sufficient value to the empire to warrant being left to essentially do our own thing, as the kroot do? Would we end up like the vespid, fulfilling a tiny niche in the tau war machine? Is my hypothesis completely flawed?:)

PS: Yes, I know, I'm a heretic. I'll assign myself two hours in the shriving chamber to make up for my sins.:p

Xisor
01-08-2006, 20:45
We, like the Galg had of their world, have a prominent resource at our disposal that the Tau may wish to use:

Earth

It could be a resource that we didn't realise we had, it could be that this system is strategically viable for them and they need us to comply with them so that they can operate sufficiently...who knows? We don't know for sure, but it *is* possible that we could have a significantly greater biological potential brainpower than many of their races, they could almost employ us as a fully functioning academic auxilliary! This way, they'd have to educate us, sure, but if they educated *all* of us...it wouldn't need to be brainwashing either!

Alternatively, we may have nothing they want...and they'd simply offer us a place in the Greater Good to keep us on side. They don't just *bypass* worlds. They're *always* working at them, but they have the Water Caste. Given time a steady stream of water can split a mountain. If the water caste applies themselves to us we may indeed finally come around, with sufficient stimulus, to say "Yeah, fair enough, we'll sign up!"

I mean, they *could* figure this out before we realise what's going on. They could do it for centuries and we needn't notice. They could be flooding the world with their ideas, technology, philosophy etc but also actually adapting their ideas such that they *are* viable. That is learning from us how we may both, us and them, serve the Greater Good.

They *could* (and IMO are) genuine in their belief in the Greater Good. The only 'Tau-ification' we'd need is to have our eyes opened to the possibility of there being a Greater Good. As the Doctor put it(in different words):

"You spend all your time worrying about global warming and war and asteroids, you never stop to think what'll happen if Humanity survives. That you make it, that you live!"

In the same way many of us seem quite convinced in our inability to have a real *Good*, one that we an do and practice without there being sinister and evil undertones.

Xisor

EDIT: We don't *know* the Vespids fill a tiny Niche in the Tau Warmachine. It seems that way from the limited view of the 40k Codex, but there *should* be room for other things.

Calgar
01-08-2006, 20:52
What i would do if i was an Imperial and the tau had taken over my world.
Well, first off all. Im not the one that belive in cooperation whit xenos. Hell, only if it leads to their own destruction anyway.
I would becom an "Imperial Freedomfighter" (or what to call it..sort of an Imperial terrorist)...a person that would go bombingfrenzy,hijacking,hostage taking,assination, riotleader, underground officer,kille-of-all-who-works-whit-them and generaly go gong-ho on their xeno a**es.
Sneek out from the sewers at night whit my band of human recruits who shares my belives on the domination of mankind and bomb, shoot,strangle ,blow up everything xenostic we se. I would try to throw the tau into dissorder. Any human Gue´las (helpers of Tau) would not live for very long...indeed they wouldnt.
And the general bombing of important buildings and helping a future Imperial Invasion on the planet.
But hey......that´s just me:p ;)

Outlaw289
02-08-2006, 03:34
Who was it said the nine scariest words in the english language are; "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"?

Probably one of the jackboots that tore apart the Weaver family at Ruby Ridge


I would knuckle down and join the tau empire, and try to get an offworld posting.

The tau empire is alot more kind and considerate than the Imperium, and has more oppertunities. I'd be jumping for joy if the Tau took over my world.

Um, why?

First of all, as an Imperial Citizen you wouldn't know that. Secondly, as an Imperial Citizen, all the Imperium says is "maintain loyalty to the Imperium, pay these tithes, and maintain this many Guard regiments". That gives Imperial Citizens A LOT of leeway in which to control their worlds, so populism is probably what dictates many worlds.

With the Tau however, you struggle for the Greater Good on an Ethereal's terms

Tanith Ghost
02-08-2006, 05:57
Here is an intersting thought no one has expressed yet regarding an alien empire taking over your planet...

Why not apply the Inquisitor logic to those who would fight? Radicals or traditionalists. Whilst the latter of these may plant bombs, assassinate, seek to destabalise... I can easily easily imagine the radicals praying to any benefactor to come CHANGE things... You know... like almost praying to the LORD OF CHANGE? *huh huh?* I can see Tzeentch cults springing up like wild fire on human worlds...

Oh remember the fluff on black ships monitoring the emergence of psykers... The Tau dont do that... So in a couple of generations you've got uncontrolled psykers drawing warp powers to your planet and next a full scale chaos incursion...

Interesting no?

The tau are due for a psychic apocolypse. A full on daemon incursion, a warp storm, or some nastiness of that variety. They don't regulate psykers, and thus are horrendously vunerable.

Zakuza
02-08-2006, 06:14
The Eldar wouldn't capture humans.
They would slaughter them like the animals they are.
It would be like retaking land from cattle to them.

Bregalad
02-08-2006, 10:13
1.) Tau: If the inhuman oppressive Imperium regime on my planet would be defeated and exchanged for a tolerant, respectful form of democracy? Well, rub my eyes and rejoyce. Still takes some time to get used to democracy, as history shows.

2.) Eldar: They have no interest in conquering Imperial planets. They stay in their craftworlds and defend themselves.

yerpo
02-08-2006, 10:51
Eldar do occasionaly have interest in imperial territories, be it that some ancient artifact was found buried there, or something more sinister.

Either way, the Tau are a much more "pleasant" option than either Imperium or Eldar (or any other xenos race, for that matter) from the perspective of a lowly citizen. Their society is not really democratic, but much more open than any other in the 40k universe.

Faolin
02-08-2006, 11:10
The tau are due for a psychic apocolypse. A full on daemon incursion, a warp storm, or some nastiness of that variety. They don't regulate psykers, and thus are horrendously vunerable.

The Tau don't HAVE psykers. No Tau has ever got any shape or form of physic power. Ever.

There are probably one or two human/kroot psykers somewhere in the Empire, but not enough to cause an Empire wide cataclysm. In fact, the psykers that are there probably aren't powerful enough to cause any problems at all.

jimbobodoll
02-08-2006, 11:19
The tau are due for a psychic apocolypse. A full on daemon incursion, a warp storm, or some nastiness of that variety. They don't regulate psykers, and thus are horrendously vunerable.

The Tau don't HAVE psykers. No Tau has ever got any shape or form of physic power. Ever.

There are probably one or two human/kroot psykers somewhere in the Empire, but not enough to cause an Empire wide cataclysm. In fact, the psykers that are there probably aren't powerful enough to cause any problems at all.

We were talking about what would happen if the Tau took over an Imperium planet. Just go back a couple of pages and read the posts to understand how the Tau empire controlling a human world would lead to a promotion of a psychic apocalypse...

Gen.Steiner
02-08-2006, 12:28
Probably one of the jackboots that tore apart the Weaver family at Ruby Ridge

This sounds intriguing, care to expand on this?

On Psychic Doom:

There are one in a million humans who are psychic, IIRC, from the background. Of these, one in - what, a thousand? - are dangerously psychic. Now, that doesn't sound a lot. Let's take Earth, that is 6,000,000,000 people.

That's six thousand psychic humans, and six Alpha or Beta level psykers. Enough for five thousand nine hundred and four minor infestations, and six uncontrollable warp-tears. Woops!

Kymar
02-08-2006, 14:19
There are a few options (although the list is by no means exhaustive)--
1) Resist. Human sovereignty is a massively important cause and the domination of the xeno should be resisted at all turns--their alien minds cannot comprehend the human, and as such there is no reason for them to assume they can govern us or remain in a superior position for long without a great number of humans rising up in defiance. This planet is "ours" and anyone who contests the claim is in the Wrong and must be Punished. See also--national identity + geo/astropolitics.

2) Incorporate. It's the NWO, and there's no end in sight because the enemy has a superior position ("nuke 'em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure")--you might as well make the best of it, either by chumming up to your new Alien Overlords or by selling out anyone who takes option (1) because they'll only make the situation bad for you. If you do a good job of it, you can make your world's position really good on the inside. The politics of it would be fun to say the least...but at the base level you are, it's unlikely you'd get to make that sort of decision.

3) Ignore it. This depends in some measure on how the aliens came to possess this world. If it was a hiccup of "we're in charge now," then it's quite possible there are a few purges going around at the top levels and some investigations going on at the bottom levels, but so far as anyone else cares, it's situation normal. The Greater Good gets their tithe, the Imperium gets their tithe...who cares?

4) Reactionary phenomena. A variation on (1)--people roll over and accept the occupation as a physical reality but refuse to accept the notion that it will change the Grand Plan as they perceive it. The Emperor will return, these are our few days of temptation in Hell before the triumphant return of the Imperium's holy light...we must persevere and plan for that eventuality. For the Day of the Emperor cometh as a Thief in the Night.

I'd probably fall into a mixture of (3) and (2), personally, with a smattering of (4)...although I might not have the conviction to pass on that sort of faith to my children.

I agree with what he said above, it just about covers all bases. Though this only applied to Tau & possibly Orks. Craftworld Eldar never really occupy worlds, once the battle is done they'll either take what they came for or just purge the entire world of non-Eldar life (in the case of a Madien world). Dark Eldar may hold over a planet for awhile, but thats more like a cat playing with a caught mouse., they're not going to keep it alive for long.

PS- As for the psyker problem, Tau would probably just see them as rebels and fight them accordingly. If non-human are in the key position the whole planet isn't going to quietly corrupt, though civil war is likely.

Forces Unknown
02-08-2006, 15:11
This sounds intriguing, care to expand on this?

Its a real world incident not a 40K one, more suited for discussion in P&R.

Adept
02-08-2006, 15:56
Either way, the Tau are a much more "pleasant" option than either Imperium or Eldar (or any other xenos race, for that matter) from the perspective of a lowly citizen. Their society is not really democratic, but much more open than any other in the 40k universe.

See, I don't think so. I believe the Imperium is a psychopathic libertarian form of government. They don't have many rules (don't be a heretic, pay your tithes being about the sum total) but if you do break them, may god have mercy on your soul. The Imperium isn't going to come into your home and tell you how to live your life. They aren't even going to make you go to church. They simply don't have the time or the manpower. They have entire space sectors to run. They don't care unless someone brings to their attention your mutation or consorting with aliens.

The Tau on the other hand, will come into your home, and tell you how to run your life. They've decided what the greater good is, and what you need to do to achieve it. And you can either do exactly what they say, or get shot in the face. Personally, I'd take the psychotic apathy of the Imperium over the tyranical rule of the Tau.

Adept
02-08-2006, 15:58
This sounds intriguing, care to expand on this?

A warrant was issued for a mans arrest because of a court typo.

The man in question was a reclusive psychopath aryan seperatist ex-green-beret who thought the government was out to get him.

Things went poorly during the ensuing seige, and Weaver's wife and one of his children were killed.

Sakura
02-08-2006, 16:02
If i was on a tau planet I'd probably join up as an artisan Tau Idol, singing imperial pop. "I pop"

If I was on an Eldar world I would probably be the universe's biggest space whore, can you imagine the amount of Legoli running about.. Hola!

hellfire
02-08-2006, 16:06
This sounds intriguing, care to expand on this?

On Psychic Doom:

There are one in a million humans who are psychic, IIRC, from the background. Of these, one in - what, a thousand? - are dangerously psychic. Now, that doesn't sound a lot. Let's take Earth, that is 6,000,000,000 people.

That's six thousand psychic humans, and six Alpha or Beta level psykers. Enough for five thousand nine hundred and four minor infestations, and six uncontrollable warp-tears. Woops!

except that imperial hive worlds have upwards of 10,000,000,000 people
all you tau huggers are forgetting that as an imperial citizen all you know about the tau is
1):there xenos
2):xenos are evil and will eat your children

you don't even know the specific names of xenos species unless your in the guard or high up in the goverment

Gen.Steiner
02-08-2006, 16:35
See, I don't think so. I believe the Imperium is a psychopathic libertarian form of government. They don't have many rules (don't be a heretic, pay your tithes being about the sum total) but if you do break them, may god have mercy on your soul. The Imperium isn't going to come into your home and tell you how to live your life. They aren't even going to make you go to church. They simply don't have the time or the manpower. They have entire space sectors to run. They don't care unless someone brings to their attention your mutation or consorting with aliens.

The Tau on the other hand, will come into your home, and tell you how to run your life. They've decided what the greater good is, and what you need to do to achieve it. And you can either do exactly what they say, or get shot in the face. Personally, I'd take the psychotic apathy of the Imperium over the tyranical rule of the Tau.

I agree entirely with this. The Imperium cannot micro-manage. It has its Adeptus Arbites, its Ecclesiarchy, and so on, but they are there to ensure that no-one is a heretic, and that Tithes are met. Aside from that, your society can be run on any lines you like. Fancy a despotic fascist regime where the God-Emperor is held up as a shining example of what all men must aspire to become? Fine! A communistic utopian worker's paradise where the God-Emperor is the ultimate Stakhanovite? Hurrah! Standard Hive World Just Like Necromunda? Equally happy.

The Tau are tyrants, make no mistake about it. Not only that, but they're NOT HUMAN. Of course I'd resist.

RE: Ruby Ridge: Typical bleeding sub-moronic heavy-handed policing. Go the government... :(

The Venerable Archmage
02-08-2006, 18:00
Not only would I join the Tau Empire, I would get on the nearest Rogue Trader vessel and go there myself if they were taking too long to conquer my home planet. I'm far rather live under an empire that at least tries to be not entirely unpleasant.

Robot 2000
02-08-2006, 18:11
I don't think you'd have much choice but to resist, given the drastically limited information available about xenos to the normal Imperial citizens.

Duel_Crisis
02-08-2006, 21:13
If they leave me in peace, I won't interfer. If they do intefer with me I'll leave them in fragments.