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BloodRaven
29-07-2006, 19:37
How does the Imperium deal with space hulk clearence if there are no Space Marines available (apart from blowing them up)? How do the Tau, for that matter? I just thought I'd ask to see what people think.

Kage2020
29-07-2006, 20:17
Despite the product and the assumptions of the 40k universe, Space Marines are not required for "Hulk Clearance".

Kage

BloodRaven
29-07-2006, 21:06
Despite the product and the assumptions of the 40k universe, Space Marines are not required for "Hulk Clearance".

Kage


But would do they use instead, then? what would Tau use? (I can't see their battlesuits in that sort of situation).

Norminator
29-07-2006, 21:16
I can actually imagine Tau battlesuits in that sort of situation - they'd most likely have a lot of Drones in front, flamers and shields.

Snakebite
29-07-2006, 21:30
A few years ago, a few of us adapted our armies for Space Hulk missions. Back then, I was a Tau player and was given the job of answering that very question. Here's what I came up with.

You're right when you say that Crisis Suits are too big to fit in Hulks. I decided that Fire Warriors would be most effective in these situations, arranged into squads of six. Pathfinders would also be used (obviously without their rather large tranports!) in conjunction with Gun Drones for the more hazardous areas of the Hulk.

The diverse layouts and inherently unpredictable nature of Space Hulks would make "regular" armies almost impossible to use effectively. I would suggest Kill Teams would be used by the Tau - indeed, by any army.

Zakuza
29-07-2006, 21:42
My tau boarding party list used no suits but for main corridors or larger ones I had a pirhanna.
Sniper droids once you actually find the enemy muder them.
Otherwise close combat wastes your tau.
Firewarriors with pulse carbines are great due to the pinning.
I imagine with the fluff they would infiltrate bugs on the hull and kroot inside.

config
29-07-2006, 22:02
i imagine tau using of course drones and modified xv25 suits.

the suits would not have any jetpacks, but extra hardpoints. they normally would be mostly invisible for any subtenants.

why suits and not regular infantry? imagine what could happen if you increase the pressure while you build a breathable and warm atmosphere in a century old vessel or rubble of vessels.

okay stealers would also need an atmosphere to survive onboard a space hulk but normally they would be hold in stasis or coldsleep and your docking noise psychic presence or whatever would trigger there awakening and then maybe they could use that little atmosphere that is left in the hulk or what the hybrids have left for their survival, of course imho.

so long

FlashGordon
30-07-2006, 00:55
As for Humanity, i think it would befall the local adpetus arbites office or the Adeptus mechanicus (lots of tech in there)

TheSonOfAbbadon
30-07-2006, 01:53
No one's talked about Orks yet...

...That's because Orks are one of the horrors of Space Hulks...

FlashGordon
30-07-2006, 01:55
*Sending Ordo Inquistors after TheSonOfAbbadon for questioning about suspected alien taint*

Loki
30-07-2006, 02:08
What about IG vets? They probably just need some special equipment and I bet that stormies can do the job too.

starlight
30-07-2006, 02:14
I presume most armies would select from their Elite or Troops choices and give them some extra training and toys.

TheSonOfAbbadon
30-07-2006, 02:35
I'm not allied with the Orks [well, not GW Orks], I'm more Tau myself.

And everyone's assuming Tau would know what's on a Space Hulk, they still believe that daemons are aliens like any other, I doubt they'd have much experience with Space Hulks. They'd probably send a few drones in as scouts, and send in firewarriors and pathfinders which will split up into small squads so they could search the Hulk faster.

Battlesuits aren't suitable for Hulks. Broadsides are too big to even turn around, Crisis Suits might manage it, but they couldn't fly, flying would be too clumsy aboard a Hulk. XV25s might be able to fly forwards for some speed but it wouldn't be advisable, it just throws them further into the midst of aliens. Besides, with long burst cannons and fusion guns on their arms, they won't be that maneuverable. Firewarrior's guns would be too long for them to get around the Hulk that easily. Ethereals wouldn't be so stupid as to lead an attack on a Space Hulk. So, it's drones and pathfinders.

And Space Marines wouldn't be THAT good at clearing Hulks, Terminators would be slow, unmaneuverable, big, easy targets. Power Armour would be quite big, and not that maneuverable. Scouts would do good though, if properly equipped.

Imperial Guardsmen might fare quite well, if equipped with carapace armour flamers and bolters [where possible].

Sisters of Battle would be very good at Space Hulks in my opinion. They've got good but maneuverable armour, good guns, and they've got that thing about fire so they're not going to be short of flamers.

Eldar would probably avoid Space Hulks, or try to alter their course so that it flew towards an enemy.

Chaos, like Tyranids and Orks, are one of the horrors of the Hulk.

Necrons would either:
A: Use the Space Hulk as a convienient means of transportation, they sit on board, in stasis, the Genestealers think they're just statues, Orks are too busy fighting to take any notice. Chaos ignores them and gets on with corrupting things. Then Necrons arrive where they want to go, come out of stasis, get off Hulk, perform whatever skirmish or assault they were planning, and find their way back.
OR
B. They'd want the Space Hulks' parts to build things [like scarabs or bits of pariah].
OR
C. They'd avoid it.
OR
D. They'd alter it's course into an enemy.
OR
E. They'd want something onboard [forgotten technology, something that they don't want their enemies to get] and clear out the Space Hulk.

Now Necrons would be good at clearing out space hulks. They're almost as strong as Marines, with good armour which can repair itself, they're not big and unmaneuverable, and they have rapid fire guns which reduce their enemies to their subatomic level. Flayers would be decent assault troops. Destroyers would be too big, but Wraiths might be able to get on board. The Lords might need to shave down their headress or their Staff of light to fit on but they'd make it. Immortals might be a bit big, but they'd be good support for the Warriors. Scarabs would easily swarm through the hulk, tearing at everything in their path. Tomb Spiders would probably be too big. And C'tan? Well...

...They're Gods...

Outlaw289
30-07-2006, 02:51
I think Space Marines, especially Terminators, are terrible Space Hulk purifiers.

Considering that either Orks with Choppas or Genestealers with razor sharp claws are in them, you're basically wasting elite troops in very confined quarters against enemies who can effectively negate your troop's armor advantage.

For the Imperium: Storm Troopers, Kitted-Out IG veterans, or Sororitas heavy on flamers would be most effective. They all have a good combination of firepower, durability, and experience, and are more expendable than Marines.

For the Tau: Pulse Carbine Firewarriors or Pathfinders, and very heavy on drones. I would imagine they'd send a pack of drones forward with each new passageway or room to draw the enemy out then murder them with pulse fire.

For the Orks: Lotsa boyz!

Eldar: Storm Guardians or a combination of Striking Scorpions/Banshees combined with Dire Avengers.

paddyalexander
30-07-2006, 02:53
You're all assuming that space hulks are crammed with tiny coridors etc. Its like representing a hulked enterprise (I'm proberbly going to build one of these now that I've had the idea) comprised entirely of jefferies tubes.

Space Marines often employ Dreadnoughts when clearing hulks so why can't Tau employ smaller crisis suits. If your making a hulk table (the adeptus mechanus building set is great for this) do lay out some open areas representing docking bays, cargo holds, mess halls etc.

Fluff wise, normal infantry of said race backed up by specialist units place demolition charges trough out the hulk at key areas. They evacuate and... boom!.

Kage2020
30-07-2006, 13:19
Of course, if the ship isn't built with allowing an ~8' warrior through them, you're in trouble. Also, space hulks could be, well, empty. Why would they always be chock full of nasty pointy-spikey-toothy aspects of death and dismemberment?

Kage

Brother Othorio
30-07-2006, 15:37
And Space Marines wouldn't be THAT good at clearing Hulks, Terminators would be slow, unmaneuverable, big, easy targets. Power Armour would be quite big, and not that maneuverable.
I think Space Marines, especially Terminators, are terrible Space Hulk purifiers. funny, fluffwise Terminator armour was designed primarily for boarding actions, the rational being that your not going to dodge bullets in a boarding action: the enemy is going to consolidate around doorways (if someone steps through a doorway that the enemy is already aiming at they are gonna get hit no matter how big they are) and use corridors as fire lanes ~ at that close range a guardsman in carapace armour is most likely dead, a marine or terminator on the other hand..

TheSonOfAbbadon
30-07-2006, 17:36
Space Marines often employ Dreadnoughts when clearing hulks so why can't Tau employ smaller crisis suits.

Dreadnoughts?! But they're over 20 feet tall and they're wider than that! I seriously doubt one could fit on!

Oh, and Crisis Suits fly remember? Flying wouldn't be an advantage [you'd have to dodge things on the ceiling, and you'd be in plain veiw of everyone not just the people at the front].

nurgleman
30-07-2006, 17:46
Remeber not all space hulks are small and confined. they can be comprised of any spaceship of any time. there can be really distinct space hulks.

Kage2020
30-07-2006, 17:48
funny, fluffwise Terminator armour was designed primarily for boarding actions, the rational being that your not going to dodge bullets in a boarding action: the enemy is going to consolidate around doorways (if someone steps through a doorway that the enemy is already aiming at they are gonna get hit no matter how big they are) and use corridors as fire lanes ~ at that close range a guardsman in carapace armour is most likely dead, a marine or terminator on the other hand..
Or if you want to make the place "immune" to Terminators, you just reduce the size of your corridors in some fashion. Or monkey around with the enviornmental (grav) systems or any number of other features. The one thing that the wargame and the 'fluff' rarely get into is a broader consideration of boarding sequences "in the future".

Kage

config
30-07-2006, 17:56
and do not forget that a space hulk normally is a wreck so gunfights and general stress to the interior might result in hull breaks and atmosphere leakage, bye bye soldiers without full sealed armour like terminators.

and i do think that terminators would be very logically to use, they have the best infantry armor and also can resist light anti vehicle weapons.

Or would you use a rocket launcher or anti tank laser inside a space ship, with every shot risking to break the hull, damage crucial ship systems or blow the whole thing up because you killed the terminator but also caused catastrophical damage to the energy grid that was behind the wall next to the terminator

so long

ThousandPlateaus
30-07-2006, 18:41
okay stealers would also need an atmosphere to survive onboard a space hulk but normally they would be hold in stasis or coldsleep and your docking noise psychic presence or whatever would trigger there awakening and then maybe they could use that little atmosphere that is left in the hulk or what the hybrids have left for their survival, of course imho.

so long

Just a quick bit of pedantism - 'Stealers don't need any atmosphere, they can even survive for long periods in total vacuum, scarily enough.

config
30-07-2006, 23:06
you are right their skin pours out a secretion that protects them but even with this i do not believe he could survive indefinite.
how long could a stealer survive?

a space hulk may drift hundreds or thousands of years in real space and warp space without a gellar field. and i read somewhere that stealers are put into coldsleep or stasis by the cult inside a hulk to keep them fresh for longer time periods.

so long

starlight
30-07-2006, 23:08
........without sex.:(

config
30-07-2006, 23:23
now i understand the reason for coldsleep and stasis... ;)

starlight
30-07-2006, 23:26
Yup, otherwise you couldn't carry enough food, condoms, etc.;)

Outlaw289
30-07-2006, 23:36
funny, fluffwise Terminator armour was designed primarily for boarding actions, the rational being that your not going to dodge bullets in a boarding action: the enemy is going to consolidate around doorways (if someone steps through a doorway that the enemy is already aiming at they are gonna get hit no matter how big they are) and use corridors as fire lanes ~ at that close range a guardsman in carapace armour is most likely dead, a marine or terminator on the other hand..

If you're talking about raiding a Rogue Trader ships, traitor Guard/Navy vessesl, or even disabled Eldar spacecraft, I'd agree. Lasguns/Shotguns and Shuriken Catapaults, commonly used weapons on Imperial and Eldar vessels, respectively, wouldn't do much to power armor, never mind Terminator Armor!

My point was that when boarding a Space Hulk, Terminator armor is at a disadvantage. Its too big a target for weapons like powa klaws, choppas, and razor-sharp claws to not penetrate it. Its a waste of rare and expensive armor and elite soldiers.

Scouts or StormTroopers might have a higger chance of dying in a Space Hulk, but it would take roughly 50-100 of those troops to equal the relative worth of a full-fledged Space Marine

IJW
30-07-2006, 23:47
Space Marines often employ Dreadnoughts when clearing hulks so why can't Tau employ smaller crisis suits.
Dreadnoughts? Are you sure you don't mean Tactical Dreadnought Armour (otherwise known as Terminators)? Although I do remember some mention in Space Hulk 1st ed of Dreadnoughts occasionally being used in the bigger hulks.

Asi the Red
31-07-2006, 04:08
Hey ya'.

I imagine that for the Tau, FW teams with carbines, drone squadrons, heavy drone squadrons and stealth teams would be the order of the day.

Drones cause they're slightly expendable, HGD's cause they'd be carrying weapons that put out the volume of fire you'd need to wipe a corridor clear, FW's w/ carbines cause the long guns would be hard to corner with, and stealths cause burst cannons clear hallways and fusion blasters give you the ability to go through doors that don't want to open (or through a wall if you need to get away from "that thing" that's chasing you...).

Also, keep in mind that Stealths aren't much taller than a Fire Warrior is, and FW's are shorter than normal humans. The models might look terminator sized, but they'd actually be more like slightly larger than guardsmen.

starlight
31-07-2006, 04:13
FWs/Pathfinders with Carbines (Assault/Grens/smaller) in secured areas (with atmo)
Stealths (any XV-2X series)
Drones (all)

That's how I'd do it.:D

Asi the Red
31-07-2006, 04:16
Hey ya'.

I'd think that the FW armor is sealed, looks like it anyways. Just have to make sure the shas'ui wears his helmet when he gets off the boarding vessel...

starlight
31-07-2006, 04:20
Sealed maybe (I figured as well, in the sense of filters and such) but that doesn't mean that it has an O2 supply that would last long enough.:eek: