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View Full Version : One shot, One Kill! SM scouts query?



Legion
30-07-2006, 14:23
Iv'e got my sniper scouts , I have played about with the sprues, and before I assemble them I'm toying with Squad composition, and I would value your opinion.

My aim is for a ten man scout squad , led by a veteren Sgt, I am toying with 5 scouts armed with sniper rifles, squad security supplied by 1 heavy bolter and 3 bolter armed scouts.
the sgt will as a start be armed with either another sniper rifle or a storm bolter, other wargear such as teleport homer optional.

The intention is to model the scouts in pairs , one sniper rifle in an aiming pose, and one scout armed with a bolter, either shooting or spotting with a pair of binoculars, rather like modern sniper team operators.
( hence the one shot one kill tag line , if youve seen the art work of the two US marine snipers set in vietnam of the same title you will have a better idea of where I am going with this)http://www.deltaforce.com/catalog/media/CP-14_One_Shot_One.jpg

Like I said , I have a fairy good idea where I'm going with this , but as far as game play is concerned, I'd like a little feedback to what you guys think? My intention is fluff based , not power gaming min maxing.

Cheers guys.
;)

dave is the best
30-07-2006, 14:31
ive done that mith my imperial guard i think its a great idea(sp)

Kahadras
30-07-2006, 18:47
It's definatly an interesting idea. Although I am not sure how it would work out on the table top the chance for modeling oppertunities should be quite cool (I hope you are good with green stuff). At the end of the day you can always seperate them into two different squads if they don't work out on the table top.

Kahadras

Colonel_Kreitz
30-07-2006, 19:22
Very cool! Simply put, I rather like it. In fact, even though I do not use snipers in my IG army, one of my favorite things about IG Special weapon squads is that every sniper has a spotter. Hence, I would personally favor spotter poses of the observers.

If you're concerned about tabletop usefulness, I could give the sergeant a sniper rifle and drop the teleport homer. I might also consider (I emphasize consider; definitely not mandatory) dropping the heavy bolter.

Why? Because, even though sniper rifles cause pinning, I have usually seen them used to the most effect gunning down horrifying monstrous creatures. In fact, I have seen ratlings kill Wraithlords and even C'tan within one or two rounds of shooting. Rather than mixing relative killing power (the heavy bolter may have a relative strength higher or lower than the sniper rifle, and it has a lower AP) it may be wise to stick to a single "category" of weapon, to give the unit a more precise role on the field. Plus, should you encounter monstrous creatures with crappy saves (ie C'tan) you've got one more sniper rifle.

That having been said, the heavy bolter may come in useful should you be using your snipers against Guard or Eldar or, indeed, Tau Fire Warriors. Your call on this, of course, but, since the objective is either to kill high toughness units and cause pinning anyhow, I personally think the heavy bolter is superfluous.

Kahadras
30-07-2006, 19:48
Theres no real reason not to take a heavy bolter in a sniper squad IMO. It adds concideably to the squads firepower and as it has the same range as a sniper rifle and they are both heavy weapons (so doesn't effect the squads movement) it fits in perfectly.

Kahadras

sulla
31-07-2006, 06:55
I'd go for the missile launcher over the H. bolter personally...

Chem-Dog
31-07-2006, 08:51
Go for it, nobody can fault you for wanting to make your models look good, I would suggest having one or both easily removable for when casualties start occuring, maybe using a pin or magnet.

Personally, I would pick the Missile Launcher, it's a little more flexible than the Heavy Bolter, you never know whan a Krak Missile will come in handy.

Colonial Rifle
31-07-2006, 09:24
Another vote for a ML over HB. Snipers infiltrate so there is a chance that you can work your way into position to hit vehicles in the side/rear (which the sniper rifle can actually help out with nowadays).Also Krak missiles have a decent chance of hurting monsterous creatures that your Snipers will be going for. You can even go for frag if your desperate!

The ML is a good complement for this squad.

Spyrle_106
31-07-2006, 09:37
I'd also go with the missile launcher. It gives enough flexibility to cover troops and big stuff. The only problem is if you get tempted to shoot at some AV12 vehciles with said ML, then the rest of the squads shooting is wasted. But at least the option is there.

Spyrle

Promethius
31-07-2006, 09:57
I prefer the heavy bolter myself. It is the same points cost as the sniper rifle, and has a similar range and role. OK so it has a relatively low strength, but you already have the sniper rifles, and if and when you come across a horde army you will be eager to have access to those extra few shots.

Then again, I field two scout squads, one with 4 snipers and a heavy bolter and one with a missile launcher and 4 bolters. I find the second squad useful for catching people unawares.

Kahadras
31-07-2006, 20:02
The thing is with the missile launcher it is...

a) more expencive

and

b) doesn't fit in with the idea for the squad.

I have always found that units do better when they are designed to either take out infantry or tanks. Putting a missile launcher in tempts players into shooting at things that the squad wasn't designed for. If it misses then that's the whole squads shooting wasted for a turn.

Saying that it it would work when infiltrating (and getting side or rear shots on tanks with a krak missile) is a falicy as well as the squad wants to set up as far away from the enemy as possible where it can bring its superior range into play. What's the point in buying loads of heavy weapons for a squad if you are forced to move in turn two or be charged?

Kahadras

Simsandwich
31-07-2006, 20:05
Sniper Rifles get 2D6 against Tanks do they not?

3 0f 6
31-07-2006, 20:07
1D6 i believe

Kymar
31-07-2006, 20:10
Sniper rifles get 2D6 penetration, no strength added at all. Before this gets into a rules discussion I'd like to say that its a great idea for your SM scout. I think you should have them on individual bases, but with a shared large base that each pair can fit upon. That ways you can move them apart if need be for moving around terrain.

Simsandwich
31-07-2006, 20:10
2D6 with no strength Bonus.
So Max they can Glance is 12.

BrainFireBob
01-08-2006, 05:40
I always felt the ML did fit with scouts. Then again, I use my scouts for dealing with Wraithlords, Tyranid Monstrous Creatures, and high-Toughness Daemon Princes.

Kahadras
01-08-2006, 10:56
That's three armies though and even then they might not cooperate by not deploying the foresaid units. Just taking the missile launcher to deal with monesterous creatures that sniper rifles work on doesn't seem that good an idea IMO. I agree that it gives the squad different options but at the end of the day it's an extra 5 points where you really don't need it.

Kahadras

Colonial Rifle
01-08-2006, 14:28
Kahedras - I can see your arguments, but it has never worked like that on the field.

1st: 10pts isn't really pricey. Infact a bargain for another Heavy weapon.

2nd: it doesn't dilute the power of the squad, it enhances it. Just think of it as a special weapon upgardes for a Tactical squad. You don't see many all-bolter squads do you?

3rd: You cannot predict what infiltrate opportunities your opponent might offer you. ML/Snipers can exploit poor enemy deployment with a credible long range threat. People hate infiltrating heavy weapons (trust me, I run Alpha Legion! ;) )

4th: it IS versatile. The ML/Sniper can hurt a wider range of targets, so you don't *lose* anything by it's inclusion.

Ultimately, I consider it tried and tested. My Mantis Warriors don't leave home without it!

Kahadras
01-08-2006, 14:55
Well I prefer to keep my missile launchers in my small five man scout squads. The sniper rifle squad is perfectly fine without a missile launcher IMO as it's main job is to target infantry. By including a missile launcher all it does is tempt me to target things which I would otherwise ignore


2nd: it doesn't dilute the power of the squad, it enhances it. Just think of it as a special weapon upgardes for a Tactical squad. You don't see many all-bolter squads do you?


But it doesn't enhance the squads job. The squads job is to shoot at (and hopefully pin down) infantry units. Special weapons in tac squads go towards enhancing the job that the squad is already designed for. I use clense and purify quite a lot (read all the time) and the weapons loadout directly relates to the squads job i.e

2 plasma guns go in large shooting based squads that go after infantry

2 melta guns are in smaller squads and are used as tank hunters

2 Flamers are used in large close combat squads that Rhino rush an opponant, flame and bolter him then beat any counter attack up with a vet sergeant with a powerfist.

The missile launcher does not enhance the job the squad can do it just increases the amount of things a squad can do. That's how I see it though. Over the years I have played as Marines I have come to the conclusion that making every squad an 'all rounder' as it were doesn't really help in many games. This is, of course, in my experience. If you have found success in including a missile launcher in you sniper sqaud then by all means retain it. Maybe one day we'll get a game and can see whether it works or not (unlikely as I am collecting Space Wolves atm and their scouts work a bit differently)

Kahadras