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RobbiP
02-08-2006, 02:54
Alright, here's an armylist of an army I'm prepping to make- money wise, it'll be fairly easy (with some conversion work, of course) and yeah, It's very magic heavy.

Lord of Chaos
-MoT, Great Weapon, Shield, Eye of Tzeentch, Tzeentch Staff, Dragon
= 814

Aspiring Champion
-MoT, Power Familiar, Shield
= 202

Aspiring Champion
-MoT, Power Familiar, Shield
= 202

Chaos Warriors x10
-MoT, Shields, C/SB/M
=200

Chaos Warriors x10
-MoT, Shields, C/SB/M
=200

Chaos Warriors x10
-MoT, Shields, C/SB/M
-Banner of Wrath
=250

Chariot
-MoT
=140

Grand Total: 2008 pts

Power Dice= 16
Dispel Dice= 12
Bound Spells= 1


How would this army fare vs. any other standard competitive list out there? Too cheesy? Not cheesy enough?

I'd appreciate all criticism and help
/Rob

TheWarSmith
02-08-2006, 03:11
A tzeentch list w/ no screamers has somethign wrong w/ it. Also, I'd HIGHLY suggest making one of those aspiring champions mounted. It gives your magic a LOT more mobility.

Neknoh
02-08-2006, 08:13
This is not highly competitive, it is a joke, sorry to say that, but it is, with only Leadership 8, three dead Warriors = one running unit worth at least 250 pts

In a competitive Tzeentch army, the key is balance, so, let's see what we can make of this.

Throw two Warrior-units into eachother, replace one of the Aspiring Champions with a Wargor of Tzeentch, give him the Staff of Darkoth or the Goretooth. Now, use an Exalted Champion instead of an Aspiring Champion as well, that is your character base.

Loose that third unit of Chaos Warriors, replace it with a big Beastherd.
You will still need Screamers, so I suggest getting a group of them for whatever points you have left.

This army would still suffer aggainst most armies out there, I'd almost be inclined to tell you to drop the Warriors completely in favour of a unit of knights of Tzeentch and some Marauder Horsemen to have a three-wave assault.

First comes the Dragon and Screamers, taking out weaker targets, then comes the Chaosknights and Marauder Horsemen, after that comes the Chariot and the Beastherd

cookiescrumble
02-08-2006, 09:04
Even for a chaos army that is small, that lord is way to many points. Considering it takes just one cannon shot.

WhiteStar
02-08-2006, 09:20
The lord is fine in competitive Tzeentch Mortals.

As was said. More Knights and chariots. Tzeentch Heroes on discs are nice too.

Voltaire
02-08-2006, 09:26
This army is not competitive, it is somewhat weak an utterly redundant against anyone who plays competitively. Heres what I would use

- 2 blocks of 20 warriors.
- a 21 strong block of horrors wth 4 accompanying flamers
- 6 screamers
- A beastherd
- Marauder Horsemen - the points saved from Marks of Tzeentch will pay for these
- Bray Shaman with the staff of Darkoth
- 5 Chosen Knights with the Banner of Wrath
- Trade an aspiring champion for a sorceror
- 2 chariots or no chariots

RobbiP
02-08-2006, 11:31
Alright, good suggestions guys.. as you can tell, I'm not much of a WHFB player and just starting to get into it's competitive nature...

So let's see... no warriors, Chaos Knights, Screamers, and Chariots correct? However, for fluff reasons and whatnot, I don't really want any daemons in my army- I personally hate them. More chariots I WOULD like though, so I guess stocking up on them is a good idea. As for the knights, I'll add some in too.

New and completely revised army list coming soon!

Neknoh
02-08-2006, 11:36
. . . you NEED screamers... BADLY in any competitive Tzeentch army!
And do NOT stock up on chariots, two is enough!

Voltaire
02-08-2006, 11:50
I trust you know what Str7 hits do to Chariots don't you?

Screamers = Yes
Horrors = Yes

They are a necessity, not an option in a competitive Tzeentch army. I'm only not mentioning the horde smiting potential of Spawn because nobody else seems to have done it!

RobbiP
02-08-2006, 21:24
Hmm... very insightful.. but really, this has made me realize one interesting thing. I'm a fairly experienced M:TG player who quit the game a year or so ago because to be "competitive" you had to only have a few certain decks, ALL of which had the same bulk of cards. No variety, no uniqueness. This obviously isn't fully the player's fault (players like to win, not lose, and therefore check internet for uber decks) and is therefore bound to happen in anything competitive and with a large internet fanbase.

You can probably see where I'm going with this- I quit MTG because I hated the "you must have X to be competitive" environment. Back on topic, I enjoyed the comments and suggestions provided (very enlightening btw) UNTIL I read the "you must" parts. Although you guys are probably right and they are essential in this build, I just find it disheartening that some things are a "must" for an army to function well. Reminds me of those terrible MTG days.

What will I do about this? Definately scratch out the 'competitive' part of this list... I don't want a re-occurance. I think I'll just stick to more friendly games, where there's a bit more room to breath. Yeah I wanted to win, BUT at what cost? The cost of using the same list as everyone else? Doesn't seem too much of an attractive proposition. I think I'd ultimately be more satisfied if I lost a bit more BUT when I did win, I won it with something that was "my" idea rather than a copy paste from the web. (Yea I know the Lord on Dragon isn't the most original idea, but oh well I think a big Lord + lotsa warrior followers is kinda fluffy)

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions guys
/Rob

chivalrous
02-08-2006, 21:38
It's been a while since I read the hordes of chaos book but are power familiars exempt from the Magic items rule that prevents multiples of the same item being taken?

Neknoh
03-08-2006, 07:13
Hmm... very insightful.. but really, this has made me realize one interesting thing. I'm a fairly experienced M:TG player who quit the game a year or so ago because to be "competitive" you had to only have a few certain decks, ALL of which had the same bulk of cards. No variety, no uniqueness. This obviously isn't fully the player's fault (players like to win, not lose, and therefore check internet for uber decks) and is therefore bound to happen in anything competitive and with a large internet fanbase.

You can probably see where I'm going with this- I quit MTG because I hated the "you must have X to be competitive" environment. Back on topic, I enjoyed the comments and suggestions provided (very enlightening btw) UNTIL I read the "you must" parts. Although you guys are probably right and they are essential in this build, I just find it disheartening that some things are a "must" for an army to function well. Reminds me of those terrible MTG days.

What will I do about this? Definately scratch out the 'competitive' part of this list... I don't want a re-occurance. I think I'll just stick to more friendly games, where there's a bit more room to breath. Yeah I wanted to win, BUT at what cost? The cost of using the same list as everyone else? Doesn't seem too much of an attractive proposition. I think I'd ultimately be more satisfied if I lost a bit more BUT when I did win, I won it with something that was "my" idea rather than a copy paste from the web. (Yea I know the Lord on Dragon isn't the most original idea, but oh well I think a big Lord + lotsa warrior followers is kinda fluffy)

Anyways, thanks for the suggestions guys
/Rob

When we say Competitive in Warhammer, the problem isn't that your list isn't the same as everyone elses, but, the problem here is that your list would get squashed aggainst highly competitive armies such as the skaven SAD, the Bretonnian RAF Empire and Dwarf GLAD, Skinks Gallore armies etc. etc.

I play MTG, and I fully understand what you mean, but, warhammer is a situation of same, same but different. If you want that dragon in a competitive army, you have to play fully arround the dragon and in support of it, nothing that this army does, for instance, I have a Doomsday Deck with proxied Power (oh, how strange :rolleyes: ), it all focuses on and arround Doomsday and achieving a certain stack whilst still having backup in the form of Yagmoth's Will and Tendrils of Agony, same in a list like this. You want that dragon to do the job, sure, but, this isn't herohammer, one lucky round of shooting and that dragon is going down.

The "must" parts are probably badly worded, I know that mine are, what I mean is that for a competitive army, there are some choices that simply are too great to pass up, you don't build a competitive deck without a Lotus in it do you? Same here, you need Fast Cavalry and you need complete synergy with your army, as it stands, you have nothing to deal with Lone characters, Warmachines and biiiig blocks of infantry (chaos warriors aren't as killy as they may seem). Warhammer sixth (and most likely seventh) edition is a game about manouvering and/or static Combat Resolution, your army does neither, you have ONE single Unitstrength 5+ manouverable unit and you have no Static Combat Resolution.

If you want to take this army to a big tournament and win aggainst Zombiehordes, RAF's, SAD's and Skink Gallore, you need to do some modifications, although, I am amazed that Voltaire would suggest Horrors in a dragon centred army, in more stationary Tzeentch armies, Horrors are a must (aggain, a "must" as in Too Great Not to Consider Including).

I for one love to use different lists than others, and I often win with them, and I could probably place them high in tournaments, but, I don't label them as Competitive, I don't claim they can dominate the game as much as SAD, nor that they have the movement of RAF, but that they are balenced enough to be able to handle those armies.

Voltaire
03-08-2006, 10:38
Neknoh, you are completely right in what you said and I know that Horrors are more of a defensive weapon than an offensive weapon.
If I was playing an army centred around a dragon (And Tzeentch forbid, if I had the money and patience to paint one I would), I would consider trying to maximise in the areas that the Dragon has taken points away from me. Cheap Marauder Horsemen and tough as nails Knights for example. A hero on a disk of tzeentch and use of things such as the banner of wrath are what I would use.

Of course, ultimately the ball drops with you.

ebolatheripe
05-08-2006, 03:55
RobbiP You might try posting a thread in the tactics section, asking other players what non common Tzeench lists or Characters they have had success with and how they used them.

Just a thought to possibly solve your delima.;)