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skamandrios
02-08-2006, 15:55
This is my army for a local league.
As it is easy to see, I experiment with mageless rosters (characterless in generally), and they work quite well (even at tournaments). The other trend is to reach fairly high model count.
Tell what you think.
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1 * Commander @ 132 Pts
Great Weapon; Dragon Armour; Shield
Helm of Fortune [25]
Pure of Heart [0]
Guardian Phoenix [25]

20 First SpearElves @ 270 Pts
Full command
War Banner [20]

5 Silver Helms @ 122 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield; Musician

5 Silver Helms @ 122 Pts
Heavy Armour; Shield; Musician

10 Archers @ 126 Pts
Musician

7 Dragon Princes @ 257 Pts
Full command
Banner of Ellyrion [15]
Amulet of Purifying Flame [15]

6 Shadow Warriors @ 90 Pts

1 Tiranoc Chariot @ 85 Pts

15 White Lions @ 295 Pts
Full command
Banner of Arcane Protection [40]
Blessed Tome [25]


Casting Pool: 2
Dispel Pool: 2
Models in Army: 70

Total Army Cost: 1499

shadowprince
04-08-2006, 07:08
probably 1 mage, if you don;t like magic why are you playing elfs.

Highborn
04-08-2006, 08:14
Agreed; High Elves are a race that is very powerful in the magical arena. No magic is like taking a dwarf army with no shooting - you could win, but good luck to you. Elves are very fragile when being hit by magic. While your two elites are protected, the rest of your army isn't, and even Dragon Princes and White Lions tend to die when ganged up on.

Some of the unit sizes seem quite awkward as well - especially the Dragon Princes, and whichever unit you're sticking your general into.

skamandrios
04-08-2006, 11:22
It's not that I don't like magic, just wanted to try something different. And no it's not obligatory to take mage in HE army. They have different situation compared to dwarves, because dwarves lack mobility.
I know that some people think mage is necessary, but it can be done without.
Sometimes I fielded 4 in 2000 pts, but it tended to leave few points for troops. So I decided to do it the other way.


Some of the unit sizes seem quite awkward as well - especially the Dragon Princes, and whichever unit you're sticking your general into.
1. I never (mostly) leave space for characters in regiments.
2. Unit sizes are prepared for 7th edition (5 models per rank).
3. Dragon Princes have some form of ablative shielding. ;)


Elves are very fragile when being hit by magic.
...and by shooting and by hth and...
Nonsense, people just perceive them to be fragile (I know, T3 chars, but we are talking about troops), they are as fragile as humans, goblins,etc. when looking at stats (quite good btw). BUT they have a weakness (u may call it fragility), it's their numbers, because u can field more humans or goblins for the same points. And here comes the point: mage can protect units against magic, but not against shooting or hth (there are spells for this, but he isn't going to cast many as all opponents field at least one defensive wizard). Moreover, HE mages ARE fragile and cost a lot. Instead of them u can field more units. Small HE army with mages is much more vulnerable than big HE army with item magic protection. It really works, my HE mageless army won 4 out of 5 battles at a tounament (obliterated 2xSkaven, Tomb Kings, Dwarves and lost only to Chaos).


High Elves are a race that is very powerful in the magical arena.

if you don;t like magic why are you playing elfs.
Remember that the magical arena is not only +1 to dispel,nice exclusive lore and access to other lores. It's also a vast range of cheap nasty magic items, in addition accesible to unit champions. I do like magic, but utilise it in different ways. Especially that HE are not only about being magical, but also being fast, trained and disciplined.


If u have any questions, ask them. I'll try to answer as best as I can.

shadowprince
04-08-2006, 20:41
hey its your funeral, don't let us tell you how to run it. It is obviose the only reason you evennposted this army is to get into an argument about mages. Since it seems you are unwilling to change anything I am unwhilling to give any advice.

Highborn
05-08-2006, 00:34
Drain Magic is just too efficient at shutting down enemy mages if it gets off the ground; it's my typical magic defense. I've never tried dropping a mage to give my opponents additional shooting targets to soak up the damage, and I don't think I ever will. Good luck to ya though.

skamandrios
05-08-2006, 17:46
It is obviose the only reason you evennposted this army is to get into an argument about mages.
Relax, man :)
I really just wanted to know what others think.


Since it seems you are unwilling to change anything I am unwhilling to give any advice.
I didn't say that I don't want to change anything. I just said that I experiment with mageless HE army and that's all (already tried all-mage or magic heavy armies and wanted sth else). But apparently the only advice people are willing to give is about taking 1+ mage, so from their point of view it may seem I just want an argument, but it's not true. I just asked for advice OTHER than taking a mage. :D


Drain Magic is just too efficient at shutting down enemy mages if it gets off the ground; it's my typical magic defense. I've never tried dropping a mage to give my opponents additional shooting targets to soak up the damage, and I don't think I ever will. Good luck to ya though.
With mage heavy opponent you're not gonna cast it.
With mage low opponent it's a kind of overkill, if not a waste of points.

Cheers!
PS.
Shadowprince, don't take it too seriously, it's just a game! :) ;)

shadowprince
06-08-2006, 07:39
Sigh its all I got ot say

Voltaire
06-08-2006, 10:16
What do you propose to do then, if you come across a Slann or a Tzeentch Chaos army without any form of dispel? Are you going to be a sportsman? I highly doubt it because you'll be kicking yourself for not taking something, even if it is a scroll caddy.

Tili
06-08-2006, 15:19
I Like this list. It has some great potential, espessially those nice magic items your unit champions carry. It might have a lousy magic defence but I can image that those units cavalry can just suicide charge a unit to kill off enemy mages.

I am not conviced about the bowmen, they are way to expensive, and never kill enough to earn there points. I would take another chariot(they are 2 for 1 choices, I think).

btw, first post here:)

shadowprince
07-08-2006, 03:33
Wait your telling me your Oppenents are dumb enough to leave the mage inthe unit for the calvary charge.

skamandrios
07-08-2006, 08:39
What do you propose to do then, if you come across a Slann or a Tzeentch Chaos army without any form of dispel? Are you going to be a sportsman? I highly doubt it because you'll be kicking yourself for not taking something, even if it is a scroll caddy.
My proposal? Fight as hard as u can.
Remember, no army is invincible.

I'm not going to kick anyone, it's a calculated risk. Taking all mages u risk getting overwhelmed (not to mention risk of magic itself, especially in 7th ed.).

Also notice, that many spells require LOS, and that the opponent has max 2 turns before HtH.

Ahh, I would have forgotten, having no magic phase speeds up the game, which is important at tournys. ;) :D

Highborn
07-08-2006, 12:29
NO army's invincible, but some armies are a little more .. vulnerable than others. I think there's more armies out there that can beat your army than what can beat a vanilla magic-using HE army, and I think that's the point that shadowprince is trying to make as well. In the end though, if that's how you like to play, noone's going to stop you.

HE cavalry are very well priced for what they can do, especially with the 18" charge of the Dragon Princes. But you'll still be lining up your hits, and enemy mages will just pop outside the unit once they realise the unit they're with can't escape the charge of dragon princes, and most armies have some option to either do a preemptive hit with war machines or set up flank charges with more maneuvrable units. Be careful with it.

Tili
07-08-2006, 13:34
@ shadowprince my opponents leave their mages in their units and dont expect cavalry to charge trough woods...

shadowprince
07-08-2006, 20:02
wow your oppenents are stupid or just inexperinced. But you got to love the banner of ellryion.

I am not saying go all out on magic, just haveing 2 mages isn;t all out last time I checked.

skamandrios
07-08-2006, 20:30
NO army's invincible, but some armies are a little more .. vulnerable than others. I think there's more armies out there that can beat your army than what can beat a vanilla magic-using HE army, and I think that's the point that shadowprince is trying to make as well. In the end though, if that's how you like to play, noone's going to stop you.

HE cavalry are very well priced for what they can do, especially with the 18" charge of the Dragon Princes. But you'll still be lining up your hits, and enemy mages will just pop outside the unit once they realise the unit they're with can't escape the charge of dragon princes, and most armies have some option to either do a preemptive hit with war machines or set up flank charges with more maneuvrable units. Be careful with it.
At the moment this army has more wins than loses.
Most loses were caused by my tactical mistakes (not to be repeated ;) ).

SilentStalker
17-08-2006, 13:54
Lose the archers and the White Lions. The White Lions are a very expensive unit for a 1500 pts game, and take up valuable points that could be spent on another unit of spearelves. As for the archers, if u remove them and the White Lions you can get either another chariot and spearelves, or bolt thrower and spearelves. That will give you more of a base to work with since you already have a good number of flanking units.