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Old School
03-08-2006, 09:26
The latest "Turnsignals on a LandRaider" comic got me thinking.......................................... ..........................

Kren and Frep (the crew of a LandRaider in the comic) are painted red, since they are vehicle crew and must of had AdMech training on Mars(?) So do all Space Marine vehicle crews get AdMech training? Chapter Techmarines must get the most intense AdMech training, so do the vehicle crew travel to Mars to get some training too?

That's a lot of Space Marines in each Chapter who wear red and have AdMech training!

Or do just all the support marines who man vehicles just paint their armour red?

Minister
03-08-2006, 09:31
I belive that the junior tech-adepts (those who are in training to become full Tech-Priests) would paint their armour red, whilst other Marines assigned to duty as vehicle crew would retain their chapter heraldry. Tech-adepts would most commonly act as crew for primary armour (Land Raiders, Predators), whilst secondary and tertiary (rhinos, whirlwinds and so-on) are relegated to servitors and normal Marines.

Old School
03-08-2006, 09:56
The latest SM codex says nothing about servitors manning any SM vehicle, all marine crews.

Romanus
03-08-2006, 09:57
Technically i thought all marines could crew vehicles. I thought that it was more of an aberation of the SM tank sprue that there was a tech marine shoulder pad on it. Thats where i think this rumour has asrisen from and that a marine only needs to learn how to drive and that they do not need to have had admech training. Though i will concede if someone can come up with more substantial evidence supporting the AdMech trained crew idea.

Cheers, Romanus

wilting_laughter
03-08-2006, 10:03
I'm pretty sure I read something about the human servants of a Chapter manning it's vehicles somewhere...

Quite frankly, Space Marine "1000" Strong Chapters don't make sense in the context of vehicle crews, as each company is supposed to have a fairly large number of support vehicles. And lets not forget Space Marine fleets.

So either

1) There are a lot more Space Marines to a chapter than "officially" according to Codex doctrine

2) Space Marines rarely operate in full squad and/or company complements as listed in the formal organisation

3) Vehicles are crewed by non-Space Marines.

Or a combination of.

Warden
03-08-2006, 10:37
Aren't vehicle crews drawn form the reserve companys?

Mechanicus
03-08-2006, 13:25
If you look at the Land Raider sprues, the figure for a marine coming out of the hatch on top has a shoulder pad with the AdMech cog on it, so I'd assume that the crews of Land Raiders are always adepts of Mars; Tech-priests for things like Inquisition Land Raiders, and Tech-marines for Astartes Land Raiders. I don't know about other vehicles though, but in the Witch hunters book, the only vehicle manned by tech-priests is the Land Raider.

t-tauri
03-08-2006, 14:24
Some vehicles like Iron Hands Land Raiders or Adeptus Mechanicus donated Inquisition vehicles may well have hard wired crew where paraplegic marines or AM cyborgs are permanently wired in. Other chapters may use failed aspirants who have been through scout training but failed the implantation of higher organs in the marine initiation sequence to run vehicles. These guys will be experienced combat troops but, say, unable to integrate with power armour.

Shibboleth
03-08-2006, 14:32
It's only the shoulder that needs to be painted red, and then only if it's bearing the Machina Opus of a Tech-adept.

Minister
03-08-2006, 17:14
Scouts serve only after the implant process is complete, t-tauri. However, Serfs are usually drawn from those who fail the in the implant stage before the final point, by which time they are already highly trained troops the equal of any guardsman.

Servitor crews are not mentioned in the Codex, primarily because it makes no difference who does the driving. However, several mentions have been made to Servitors or Serfs crewing vehicles (and they provide all but the officers to the fleet).

BrainFireBob
03-08-2006, 19:41
Actually, Scouts serve before receiving the Black Carapace.

Reserve companies are mentioned supplying vehicle crews- specifically, the 8th (I think) the assault one, that also crews Speeders.

Chapters are indeed larger, by recent fluff- there's the "household" of the Chapter Master, and "older Marines too injured for fighting" are part of this group- this being out of, as I recall, either Insignum Astartes or "How to Paint Space Marines."

I imagine a LR is crewed by a Techpriest. These tanks are sufficiently precious, after all. However, all vehicle crews should be at least somewhat under the purview of the Master of the Forges, since they need to be able to make basic battlefield repairs (think Rhino crews).

BodhiTree
03-08-2006, 20:41
I really don't see it being a problem for codex organization. 9 full battle companies makes 900 marines at full strength. The remaining 100 could probably compose the Apothecarion, Librarium, Chaplains, Techmarines and vehicle crews. Although I'm sketchy on the the command squad thing, but I'm not sure if it's canon that every squad in a company must be ten men strong for a company to be at full strength, if it's not, then the numbers within the company could still add up.

Emperor's Grace
03-08-2006, 20:41
[QUOTE=BrainFireBob]I imagine a LR is crewed by a Techpriest.[\QUOTE]

Tech[B]marine[\B]

I'll have no techpriests in my SM. (:

Personally, I always went with the 1000 referring just to the ground infantry/assault and not including any of the "support" marines.

t-tauri
03-08-2006, 21:04
Scouts serve only after the implant process is complete, t-tauri.
Really Minister?

Scouts are youths who have been recruited and partially transformed into Space Marines. Until their physical transformation and training is complete they fight as Scouts.

I'm fairly sure there's plenty of evidence to suggest that scouts serve before the implant process is finished in some chapters.

Minister
03-08-2006, 23:54
"With the completion of organ implantation and attendant chemical and hypnotic training, the subject becomes an initiate. An initiate receives training before joining the ranks as a full brother."

I'm sure I recall a more explicit statement, but I'm tired and it's not entirely relevant to this discussion.

I will say, however, that the 1000 marines has always been an approximation of the Marines within the battle companies when the chapter is at full strength. As a chapter is almost never at full strength, the number after losses is usually around this mark anyway.

Gargamel
04-08-2006, 12:57
In a White Dwarf there was a short Story about a Red Talons-Land Raider, driven by a Tech Marine and another Marine. I think important Vehicles are driven by Tech Marines, when they operate away from the main chapterforces.:confused:

Rotten
04-08-2006, 19:25
I will say, however, that the 1000 marines has always been an approximation of the Marines within the battle companies when the chapter is at full strength. As a chapter is almost never at full strength, the number after losses is usually around this mark anyway.

Exactly. Additionally, it is extremely rare for a Chapter to be deployed in its entirety even if it is at full strength, and so there should be no practical problems in having Marines from the reserve companies man the vehicles.

Although to what extent Marines are used to operate vehicles, I am not entirely sure of but I think most vehicles have Marine crew.

Brother Othorio
04-08-2006, 23:46
If you look at the Land Raider sprues, the figure for a marine coming out of the hatch on top has a shoulder pad with the AdMech cog on it, so I'd assume that the crews of Land Raiders are always adepts of Mars;

altho it was created with the Land Raider and is listed in the catalogue as 'Hatch Sprue Land Raider Sprue C', the fact that it contains no land raider specific components suggests that it was always intended to be a generic marine hatch sprue (as it became with its integral inclusion in the mkII Rhino/Predator/Whirlwind kits) which sort of neuters that reasoning, it could also be argued that the sculptor got it wrong..

hellfire
05-08-2006, 00:46
big SM vehicles ussaully have one techmarine in them but most vehicles are crewed by regular marines as such the ad-mech shoulder pad really shouldn't be on the sprue