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View Full Version : What special characters got nerfed by codex changes or 4th edition and how.



AmKhaibitu
03-08-2006, 14:06
Well this became apparent after I was painting up my newly purchased Lucius the Eternal.

Basically he's become even less worth his points than before as one of his weapons, the Lash of Torment is now merely a glorified power weapon, an expensive glorified power weapon at that.

Let's see, for an additional 10 points he has a weapon that doesn't extend his reach due to having to be in base to base contact (which is also equally useless on aspiring champions due to them having their killzone included in the collective squad zone) to use it.
And it's other ability it has which is useless to him is the negative moral modifier when the enemy loses combat, all very well and nice except for the fact he has a piece of wargear which means the enemy don't have to take morale checks when losing close combat.

And the fun thing is, he already has an unglorified power weapon included.

I consider this an obvious nerfing by 4th edition.

Of course if something's been published somewhere stating that the Aura of Acquiescence makes the enemy fearless, and that the wielder's killzone is actually increased or something to that effect then I'll quite happily accept it. Or else that's at least 10 points Lucius is overcosted by now.

Are there any other special characters that got nerfed in similar ways?

Xurben
03-08-2006, 14:20
Hrrm.. I took the lash to mean he had a 2'' kill zone. Essentially getting around the IC rule of base to base required.. I could be wrong, but the whole point of it is to extend his melee range right?

AmKhaibitu
03-08-2006, 15:24
Basically the lash was designed so you could attack without having to be base to base, as in you could attack them and they couldn't retaliate.
However since you are required to be within base to base now to attack as an independant character, this particular effect of the lash is now redundant.

And since he already has a 2" killzone, even that interpretation is rather useless.

Balfazar
03-08-2006, 15:31
It isn't redundant, special rules override general rules. Lucius can attack from 2" away.

AmKhaibitu
03-08-2006, 15:42
Balfazar, got anything but the entry in the 3rd edition CSM codex to back that up? 4th edition rules trump 3rd edition, and in this case it renders a weapon far less useful.

Previously you weren't able to focus your attacks on a character not in base to base, and thus with the lash would be able to. This would be the case when your opponent would keep an obviously superior combat monster away from their valuable character, but the lash would allow you to focus your attacks on them just the same.

Now for you to be able to attack an independant character who might have joined a squad or have a retinue, you have to sit face to face with them, and thus negate the distance attacks of the lash.
Just a small problem.

Still are there any other characters who might have been hit in such a manner in 4th ed?

Aegius
03-08-2006, 17:39
to be honest, I don't care. Special characters are there to add character to the 40k universe. I personally don't use them, but I think that it's cool when people use them, occasionally.

Malphax
03-08-2006, 18:25
Aun'shi got removed completely from the Tau codex, even though there's an article on the website about how awesome he is :wtf:

Shaper Shakra
03-08-2006, 18:33
I remember that one Ork special character on a bike used to have TL Autocannons and a battle cannon, and now he just has the autocannon and a crappy special ability that makes him go 2D6" forward(or something like that). So basically he's got crappy weapons and an ability that allows him to jet forward, beyond the 2" protection of other Orks! Not that anyone actually uses him though....

Simsandwich
03-08-2006, 19:03
Shakra, I used him, Just make sure his Guns are HUGE and he becomes the greatest fire magnet in the WORLD.

Mantan
03-08-2006, 19:56
he's also pretty cheap, isn't he? summat like 70 pts for a crazy HQ?

Simsandwich
03-08-2006, 20:14
Lol, yeah, he kills a lot of stuff, he has a Kustom Mega Blasta and powerklaw too.

BrainFireBob
03-08-2006, 20:27
I'd been under the impression, with the reprintings of the Chaos Dex, that the Lash gave indie characters a 2 inch range on combat- so Lucius doesn't need to be in base-to-base to attack, just within two inches. Very Slaaneshi.

Mephiston was nerfed by the Psychic Powers change, IMHO. He used to be awesome.

Tycho was literally nerfed by dying.

Twin-powerfisted Calgar with the base-to-base only rule I think was a bit nerfed.

The EC losing the ability to target squad sarges- only challenging other ICs.

Abaddon was nailed a bit with the newest Chaos dex because his Talon went from having an assault 2 Stormbolter to a combi-bolter- no shoot and charge this edition! (Chaos Termie armor stupidly can fire heavies and charge, but does not say "can always charge" or "can charge after firing rapid-fire weapons") Not been fixed in two re-printings, so one assumes it sticks.

Ahriman (as I recall) no longer has ALL psyker powers from the Chaos dex- he's variable, yeah?

Truthfully, Special Characters were more likely to be powered up a little, BUT the change to independent character rules rendered them no longer especially powerful. (All Marine Chapter Masters gained the "everyone use my leadership, foo!" rule, Bile can enhance ANY marines, Kharn ALWAYS hits in CC, all chaplain characters have Litanies of Hate).

Eldrad's dead, but just as useful, the Phoenix Lords are an open question, and the other Eldar characters weren't worth taking anyway.

I don't know Ork characters well, mind. So they could indeed have gone under the foot of Mork.

Vect should have become more fragile (vehicles in general did).

Hesperax I never saw on the table, nor the Mandrake one.

Haven't read the newest Nid dex.

AmKhaibitu
04-08-2006, 00:33
Hmm, I shall have to check the latest printing of the codex about the lash tonight how dare they just reprint and not publish errata like in the past... but what about that doomrider eh, nerfed all out of existence.

Lelith Hesperax is just as deadly as ever, just not quite as deadly as a wych lord with drugs, but that was a deliberate nerfing.

As with Ahriman, well he has 6 major powers and can get 2 minor powers from the wording, not too shabby, and for his points cost he kinda needs them

Colonel_Kreitz
04-08-2006, 00:39
Hmm, I shall have to check the latest printing of the codex about the lash tonight how dare they just reprint and not publish errata like in the past

They did more or less the same for the IG Codex, actually. Apparently, the new printing allows Enginseers to purchase servitors that don't count against the wargear limit, but the precise opposite is stated in the present FAQ.

By the way, I really could be concerned about "nerfing" of special characters. Few points:

1) Special Characters, as others have noted, are more for adding flavor to a game than for being part of a regular army. That's why all the old special characters required opponent's permission. They're a fun little device to use on a special occasion (hence "special" in the title) or fun for designing special scenarios around.

2) Lucius is still pretty good. Being able to kill enemies outside of BtB isn't a bad ability at all.

3) These are all issues with an old Codex. I agree, it would have been better for GW to release errata on it and prevents this sort of problem from happening. But it's not like it cripples the entire army, and 4th Edition changes were for the better of the game anyhow. Thus, it doesn't cause serious balancing issues for the army as a whole and will doubtless be addressed when Chaos gets redone (which will be right after IG, in the year 2117;) ).

Chem-Dog
04-08-2006, 02:24
I remember that one Ork special character on a bike used to have TL Autocannons and a battle cannon, and now he just has the autocannon and a crappy special ability that makes him go 2D6" forward(or something like that). So basically he's got crappy weapons and an ability that allows him to jet forward, beyond the 2" protection of other Orks! Not that anyone actually uses him though....

I think you'll find that character was called Wazdakka Gutzmek.

Commissar Yarrick got pretty badly screwed by the current IG codex, it's hard to reconcile the stats with the Warboss beating hardass he is supposed to be, but he's still my hero :D

johhny-turbo
04-08-2006, 02:57
I think you'll find that character was called Wazdakka Gutzmek.

Commissar Yarrick got pretty badly screwed by the current IG codex, it's hard to reconcile the stats with the Warboss beating hardass he is supposed to be, but he's still my hero :D
Diddn't he use to be the only non-space marine human with a strength and toughness of 4?

Shaper Shakra
04-08-2006, 03:01
If that's true I'm glad they changed that....

AmKhaibitu
04-08-2006, 03:07
Yarrik used to be mean, could even take on a c'tan relatively well if he rolled well for his strength reducing field, of course he couldn't win, but he could survive a few hits.

And I changed the thread title based on how the topic seemed to be mutating a bit. :p

dOOHICKY
04-08-2006, 09:00
Abaddon was nailed a bit with the newest Chaos dex because his Talon went from having an assault 2 Stormbolter to a combi-bolter- no shoot and charge this edition! (Chaos Termie armor stupidly can fire heavies and charge, but does not say "can always charge" or "can charge after firing rapid-fire weapons") Not been fixed in two re-printings, so one assumes it sticks.



In the Rule book does it not state that Models in Terminator armour always count as stationary?
And that Models who count as stationary may fire Rapid Fire weapons and still charge?

Overlord Krycis
04-08-2006, 11:00
I've been rapid-firing my combi-bolters and charging since I started my Chaos army...and the GWs I've played in have never questioned it. All, in fact, have agreed with me.

And the Lash of torment is still a valid weapon in 4th Edition.
Not needing to be in B2B contact, but still able to attack from 2" away is a gift that IIRC no other IC has.

FallenAngel_864
04-08-2006, 11:15
Ummm am I mistaken, but IC's do have the 2" kill zone... see the diagram on the bottom of pg 51 of the BBB.

Overlord Krycis
04-08-2006, 11:29
Yes, but they need to be in B2B contact to participate, due to the IC assault rules stating they are treated as a separate unit.
Lucius the Eternal would not need to be in B2B (if I read the entry for the Lash correctly).
Personally I don't know of any other IC than can attack opponents while not in B2B...

FallenAngel_864
04-08-2006, 14:03
Yes, but they need to be in B2B contact to participate, due to the IC assault rules stating they are treated as a separate unit.
Lucius the Eternal would not need to be in B2B (if I read the entry for the Lash correctly).
Personally I don't know of any other IC than can attack opponents while not in B2B...

Thats what I though... I just misinterpreted the above posts (at 4:30 am)...

Thanks!