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SisterMordagg
08-08-2006, 06:33
Since the eldar can see the future to a certain extent, why didn't they move the craftworld?

As a subset of that, how fast is a craftworld? Seems like it could just take to the webway and run like... space elves.

Malphax
08-08-2006, 06:50
I imagine it has something to do with the ability of the Tyranid Hive Mind to cloud the warp, and psychic powers, and all that sort of stuff. Not a hollow empty hole like Pariahs or Culexus, but more of a deafening silence. Shadow in the Warp.

La'mour Le Breton
08-08-2006, 06:57
read Shadow Point by gordon Rennie, good book and lots of eldar shadow info

McMullet
08-08-2006, 08:04
I'm not sure, but I was under the impression that a Craftworld was more like a drifting space station than a spacecraft - that they could make minor course corrections (e.g., to avoid a planet that they might hit in 6 months time) but not really zip off in another direction. If you look at 40K starmaps, they have big arcs marked "path of [craftworld]", which implies that they just coast along the course they happened to leave the original Eldar homeworld on.

La'mour Le Breton
08-08-2006, 08:19
im pretty sure iyandin was ****ed from the start they just got pulled in to the eye. they probably had more important things to worry about (like recovering from the fall) at the time the set the craftworld out to drift. and looking into the future isnt really too accurate cause of the so called shadow points that prevent further sight.Also Imps suth sayers just look into the near future and try to prevent the first disaster they see, the eldar would let on disaster happen if it ment stopping a worse one millenia down the line. so maby if they moved the craftworld something really really bad would happen later on

Romanus
08-08-2006, 11:43
Although Iyanden's rune-casting Farseers had foreseen the tendrils of doom upon the paths of the future, the first physical signs of the Great Devourer were reported by Iyanden's Rangers. The assimilation of over a dozen outlying planets in Imperial space betrayed a course heading directly toward their craftworld. Many of Iyanden's Rangers fell mute in terror at the sheer scale of the nightmare descending upon their peaceful world.

However, one of the Rangers, Irilith, spoke eloquently of their discovery at the conclave called to discuss Iyanden's course of action. Farseer Kelmon, spiritual leader of the craftworld, called together all of Iyanden's inhabitants at the Place of Answering. Several actions were debated, including carrying the fight to the enemy and even flight. It took an impassioned plea from Irilith to convince her fellows of the awesome scale of the Tyranid fleet. They must all fight or be consumed. http://uk.games-workshop.com/eldar/defence-of-iyanden/1/

From this we can see that it was intentional that Iyanden was caught within the maws of the grear devourer and that it was indeed discussed of whether they should flee. One other point is that i don't believe that Craftworlds are able to enter the warp/webway as you said in the original post.

Cheers, Romanus

ryng_sting
08-08-2006, 11:46
The Craftworlds move at sub-light speed and the smaller ones can move a little faster, but none can enter the webway. They're just too big.

The possibility of Iyanden avoiding the 'Nids was discussed and then discarded on the ground that it was impossible.

Iyanden was nowhere near the Eye of Terror. You're thinking of Altansar. Not even Farseers can forsee everything before it happens. Even Eldrad Ulthran, the Eldar's most powerful seer, didn't see them arriving too long before they actually did.

Shadowseer Crofty
08-08-2006, 11:47
i think craftworlds can enter the webway, but they are too huge to navigate most of it.
also, the attack on Iyanden was forseen by Eldrad ulthran.

Codex:Eldar page 39
He saw the Great Devourer and warned our kin on Iyanden, even before they had neared our galaxy.

he didnt see it a short while before, he saw it while the nid were years of warp travel away

Gorbad Ironclaw
08-08-2006, 12:47
There might be a few warp gates a craftworld might enter, however, they would have to be very close to where the craftworld was anyway. It's not like they are hugely mobile. It's not a spaceship, it's more like a gigantic space station, or maybe more accurately, an artificial world. Mobility isn't really a word you would use in connection with them.

La'mour Le Breton
08-08-2006, 22:40
.

Iyanden was nowhere near the Eye of Terror - you're thinking of Altansar. Not even Eldar Farseers can forsee everything before it hapens. Even Eldrad Ulthran - the Eldar's most powerful seer - saw the Tyranids coming only a relatively short while before they did.

Ohhh. my misake, i knew one of them was being drawn in.
I would think that even the greatest farseers cant peer into the shadow or the warp, considering that it must be super powerful from where the nids came from, I know that tigurius (sp?) of the ultra marines has proven himself quite adiquate at predicting the tyranids movements, but i dont think anything can beat the nids in the end (cept maby nurgle)

nurgleman
08-08-2006, 22:52
Reason? Craftworlds are very very slow. The only thing preventing them from abonding ship is the fact that their craftworlds contain all the souls of their dead, and they can't abadon them to leave them to slaanesh.

Rincewind
12-08-2006, 00:31
Not to mention the fact that they are their homes, each having an individual culture. I'd imagine Eldar from Saim-Hann feeling quite out of sorts if they'd end up as refugees on Alatoic.

I've always imagined that Craftworlds move at sublight speed, but the reason they have made so much progress in 10,000 years is that those Craftworld that were launched earlier, when the Eldar Empire hadn't fallen yet, were able to use a system of gigantic Webway portals - trade lanes for ships, if you'd imagine, but much larger than anything remaining in the 41st millenium. When the degeneration of the Empire became too much, infrastructure fell into disrepair, amongst them these enormous gates. Thus those Craftworlds that left early, such as Alatoic, are well away from the Eye of Terror.

La'mour Le Breton
12-08-2006, 00:42
it was caught by the missing primarch, juan pierre with a wraithbone baseball glove,
sorry i couldn't resist

Kage2020
12-08-2006, 14:07
It seems fairly clear (ahem ;)) from the 'fluff' that it was intent rather than accident, even if it might seem like a somewhat dubious intention. (It is to explain these arguably silly determinations of intent that I originally created the Metarune concept to explain.)

To answer some other points raised in this thread...


The Craftworlds move at sub-light speed and the smaller ones can move a little faster, but none can enter the webway. They're just too big.
The 'fluff' states that Craftworlds can enter the Webway. Furthermore, it beggers belief to believe otherwise, more so if the Webway isn't exactly Euclidean even if the various tunnels do have the sense of "size". (For some reason I'm reminded of Douglas Adams and the Infinite Improbability Drive! ;)) This intelligent race with incredible foresight maintains a means of superluminal travel but hamstrings itself by making the ships to big to get inside?

A part of this is, of course, tied into that "dying race" malarky that is liberally applied as an explanatory mechanism for practically anything (cf. Goto's Warrior Coven and the typical Golden Age Doctrine (coming with the amusing (Ye) "GAD!" acronym) and Ulthwe). The Webway is decaying, they've lost the knowledge to create it or, worse, never had it because it was obviously the creation of the Old Ones, etc., etc.

Ack, apologies. Collinder 'fluff' is in profusion when you begin to talk about the justifications behind the Eldar. They are, at present, most unfortunately playing "Short Round" to the Imperium's "Indiana Jones".


i think craftworlds can enter the webway, but they are too huge to navigate most of it.
This is the implication of the original material, true. The other unfortunate implication is that the Eldar have to physically travel to distant portals, which is where we get into the "holes" once again... the Eldar can create temporary portals into the Webway but not all the time? Then we get back to the size issue again and... Well, there you have it.


It's not a spaceship, it's more like a gigantic space station, or maybe more accurately, an artificial world.
Created from accreted spaceships.


The only thing preventing them from abonding ship is the fact that their craftworlds contain all the souls of their dead, and they can't abadon them to leave them to slaanesh.
All of which come in handle little "spirit stones" the size of an egg (ish) or smaller. They're not exactly the State of Liberty.


Not to mention the fact that they are their homes, each having an individual culture.
Now that has a bit more power. People - even Eldar people - can do some rather silly things to protect their "home", what with all that "biogeographical sense of place" stuff. With that said, remember that Craftworld Eldar culture is remarkably homogenous, all things said. As normal for GW 'fluff', apparently the five "main" craftworlds are the exceptioni to the rule rather than the rule themselves. It's just that the creation of fan craftworlds in huge numbers tends to miss that point... ;)


...but much larger than anything remaining in the 41st millenium.
Though the ships were smaller then, but once again we're back into the issue of size.


When the degeneration of the Empire became too much, infrastructure fell into disrepair, amongst them these enormous gates.
An idea perpetuated by Goto borrowing from Abnett's Saruthi. ;)

Ah well...

Kage