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View Full Version : Need help: Dogs of War vs. Tzeentch



TimmyMWD
08-08-2006, 18:04
Hey guys,

My gaming club has recently finished our Araby campaign and now I'm in a 2k battle to determine 3rd/4th place. It is the same opponent I tried to take the Black Pyramid from in the last turn of the game, and he plays a magic heavy Tzeentch mortal army.

His force is:

1 Chaos Lord on Dragon
A couple of heros each on a chariot
5 man chosen chaos knights unit
And several spawns

He had in the range of 14 power dice last game. I got destroyed b/c all I had was a scroll caddy, and he wiped out my flank in one turn of magic (damn IFs) and his dragon just mowed down the flank of my forces.

In our rematch, I'm allowed to retool my list however I want as long as its 2k and Dogs of War.

How should I go about constructing my army? Should I go shooting heavy? Should I go all cav with Asarnil the Dragonlord?

Any help would be appreciated,

Tim

Crube
08-08-2006, 18:23
You may have a problem in that he may retool his list in an attempt to bluff you in to changing your list..

If he's keeping the same list, then I'd personally go shooty. Spawn arent that tough, with no save, and with a maximum of 4 in his army, should prve to e not too much of a problem.

Chariots should go down nicely to a couple of cannon shots, and as for the dragon....

hmmm...masses of infantry, posistioned so that if he charges one, you get to flank charge him with at least 1 or 2 units. With a bit of luck, you should be able to win combat on CR, even if you dont cause any wounds.

As far as magic is concerned, I'd either go for 2/3 lvl mages, as scroll caddies, and to generate more dispell dice, or surprise him with a Lvl4 mage as your general (if you can - I'm not too hot on DoW)...

Taken with the right lore, you could cause problems, as Tzeentch units only generate power dice, not dispell ones...

CarlostheCraven
08-08-2006, 18:39
That is a pretty vile looking army our opponent has. Defeating that with Dogs of War will be tough.

I do not think that shooting heavy will be particularily useful as you will only get 2, maybe 3, turns to try to stop him. Also a Pike heavy army will have a rough time, becasue all the unit strength 5 flanking units he has will make it difficult for you to retain your rank bonus (and pikes VS high toughness and a decent armour save really do not get the job done)

There are probably 700+ points invested in his dragon, probably protected by the Eye of Tzeentch (3+ ward VS shooting for him and his mount) and the Staff of Change for magic dominance. Obviously, if you kill it you win. What is not so obvious is how to defeat it. I would suggest a "let's kill everything else" approach. After that, play points denial.

Ok, here is what I would take and why

Wizard Lord, Heavens, 2 Power Stones and 2 dispell scroll - hopefully you get Uranon's Thunderbolt, combined with powerstones you should have enough casting power to force it through and kill the knights. If you do not get it, which is quite possible, use forked lightning and either storm of cronos or the comit to smite the chaos spawn

2 more wizards, power stone and dispel scroll, Fire - blast him into oblivion. You will be on a level playing field in terms of magic potency, hopefully the power stones will be enough to force through at least one impressive magic phase (probably turn 2 if he went first, turn 3 if you go first, you want him to get cocky and burn scrolls early in the game, saving your power stones for one impressive magic phase)

Paymaster, because you have to

Core
As many 5 man units of unbarded heavy cav as you can. Use them as guided missiles, charging at his units, doing damage, breaking, hopefully rallying (buy a musician - no standards and no champions) and charge again.

Your wizards may need a unit to hide in - Leopold's Leopards would be good for this because they are Immune to psychology. If not a standard pike unit will do. However if at all possible you want the wizards in a wood with the pike close enough to prevent them from being targeted (unless you are using 7th edition rules of course)

Special

Ironguts - 3-4 units of 3 - with careful positioning these units may be able to counter charge chariots, spawn, and even the chaos knights. Along with this, do not be afraid to flee if it means another unit will be in a good position to charge next turn

Rare
2 cannons - these are for chariot duty, not dragon hunting. One wounding hit and these will be destroyed, whereas with the dragon only one in three hits will get through and then only for d3 wounds - meaning you would have to successfully hit and wound the dragon roughly 9 times to kill it. Once the characters are blow out of their chariots, hit them with heavens spells and possibly conflagration of doom. Also you could try for both chariots at once, but if you train both cannons on one target you may get lucky and eliminate the chariot with the first shot and the character with the second.

Essentially, my stratagy is that by eliminating the rest of the army early the Chaos Lord on Dragon will be unable to do enough damage to earn him points back. The sooner you eliminate his other heroes, thereby debilitating his magic phase, the more likely this is to happen,

Cheers

TimmyMWD
08-08-2006, 19:32
How about this then?

Wizard Lord @ 310 points
Lvl 4, 2 Dispel scrolls and 2 Power Stoens

Wizard @ 145 points
Lvl 2, 1 Scroll 1 Stone

Wizard @ 155
Lvl 2, 1 scroll 1 stone, horse

Paymaster @ 104 points
heavy armor, enchanted shield, sword of battle, horse


Core:

Leopold's Leopard Company @ 330 points
-20 pikes

Duellists @ 72 points
8 duellists, pistols

Duellists @ 81 points
9 duellists, pistols

4 units of Heavy Cav @ 110 each
No barding, 5 heavy cav, Musician


Special:

Ironguts @ 192 points
4 Ironguts

Rare:

Cannon * 2 @ 85 points each

CarlostheCraven
08-08-2006, 19:43
Not bad at all. A couple of tweaks I would consider given your opponent

The Leopards do not really need to be 20 strong, 16 will do as they are only there to keep the wizards from being targetted. Immune to Psych means they will not panic or flee from terror. I believe that would free 48 points

The duellists - I love them, but against randomly moving spawn who do not need LOS to charge, the extended charge range of the rest of his units, and the multiple dragon breath templates, I am not sure how to effectively put them to use. If they scouted that would be one thing, but they don't.

If you were to drop them and reduce the Pike that would open up - 201 points, which is enough for 4 more iron guts. if possible I would try to free up another 39 points, fielding 3 units of 3 ironguts - the only unit you will ever get 4 in against is the knights, who really need to get destroyed from a distance.

Cheers

Parka boy
08-08-2006, 22:34
I wouldnt try to match him in magic as your list seems to indicate with all those power stones. You'll need the LD 9 to stop all your troops running away so I'd go for 2 cadies with a total of 4 scrolls and a general and paymaster on steeds.

Maneaters with GW should make short work vs a dragon if you get the charge and they are super tasty vs chariots I'd have two of them.

shadowprince
08-08-2006, 22:58
well first off I say go duelists with pistols as they will help a lot, some dwarfs as well. A truthsayer and a level four wizard should help you a lot against his magic. And the maneater suggestion is a perfect way to get rid of the dragon. DOW is one of the most versatile armies you have the p9eces just put em together.

try dropping 1 wizard for a truhsayer extra dd and a +1 to dispel attempts.
Get rid of the leaopord company. Get some maneaters. insted of ironguts. drop 1 unit of heavy calv for some more duelists with pistols.

CarlostheCraven
08-08-2006, 23:07
Maneaters with greatweapons VS a chaos lord on dragon? I do not think so. Even if you charge with units two strong you only average just over 2 wounds on the Dragon (8a-4h-2.7w-2.2sv) to his return 6 wounds (10a-7h-6w), wiping you out. Units that are any larger are too expensive to sacrifice into this wood chipper. The idea is do deny the Chaos Lord the opportunity to earn his points back, not spoon feed them to him 270 pts at a time.

With the Power stone heavy list, he will be able to out cast the Tzeentch players in at least one magic phase. Without the full cadre of wizards he will get run over - the difference between 4 DD and 6 DD is huge in this instance. LD 9 is not important as magical superiority (or at least equality) because all your units, aside from the cannons and currently the duellists, have at least ld 8 or are immune to psychology. The small units of knights, duellists, and ogres also throw away - there are no standards to capture and each unit is worth less than 200 points.

I also considered the truthsayer, but he takes up a rare slot, meaning you lose a cannon and thus 1/2 of your chariot killing power.

And again duellists will accomplish nothing against this particular opponent, or at least I can not see how, assuming the chaos player is competent.

Cheers