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dil
29-03-2005, 17:24
Brett Enchanted item, " the Mane of the Purebreed" confers the characters horse and those of the unit he is in +1 str the first time they charge.

Does this effectively give the warhorses magic attacks for this first charge?

MVA
29-03-2005, 22:59
I think it would have said that the attacks would count as magical in the item description, if that were the case.

anarchistica
29-03-2005, 23:30
It's not specifically stated their attacks count as being magical, so no, they're not.

Festus
01-04-2005, 09:18
Hi

Is it specifically stated with any Magic Weapon or Item that they confer magic attacks?

Greetings
Festus

PS Good to be back :)

anarchistica
01-04-2005, 17:40
Nope, and i don't believe this is actually written in the rulebook either. However, if magical attacks matter somewhere, they will refer to these as "spells and magic items". However, whereas you do hit someone with a magic weapon, you don't hit them with the Mane of Purebreed, it simply gives you a bonus. If simply having a magic items would give you magical attacks it would be a bit unlogical, don't you think. ;)

Ordo Hereticus
01-04-2005, 18:02
is it bought in the magic items section? if so then its a magical attack

dil
01-04-2005, 21:14
Hence the dilema ... it is bought in the "magic" section ... but does not state it is a magic attack!!

anarchistica
02-04-2005, 00:58
is it bought in the magic items section? if so then its a magical attack
That makes no sense. A Warbanner is a magical attack?

Actually, for as far as i know, magic weapons don't give magical attacks. :D It's not written anywhere, and if you look at the descriptions for Ethereal creatures and Daemons, you will find they refer to magic weapons (or items in the latter case :rolleyes:, for feths sake) and spells.

Festus
02-04-2005, 12:35
Hi

It really seems there is a problem there...

Well, the attacks really are *magically augmented*, are they not?
This in itself speks for them being *magical* in a way.

I'd say they are effects of a MI in their aspects, so they are bound to be magical attacks.

Just my 2c

Greetings
Festus

Ordo Hereticus
02-04-2005, 17:12
if it is something bought in the magic weapons section or bought as an add on for a type of attack then it makes that attack a magical one, as it is bought in the magic section

a warbanner isnt a magical weapon as you dont go slapping people with it do you? but it is a magic item which can be destroyed by things that distroy magic items etc

your maing things more complicated than they already are

Ordo Hereticus
02-04-2005, 17:14
Hence the dilema ... it is bought in the "magic" section ... but does not state it is a magic attack!!

most of the weapons dont say they count as magical weapons but they do, otherwise in low point games ethreal creatures wouldnt get hurt!!

kirbyroxor
02-04-2005, 17:46
Why does it really matter if the horse has magic attacks? Its not like it's gonna make a huge difference most of the time. If the attack of the horse is directed against something that has some sort of special rule against magic/non-magic attacks then probably the best idea would be to roll-off for it. But imo the attack would count as magical since its found under the magical items section.

anarchistica
02-04-2005, 19:56
most of the weapons dont say they count as magical weapons but they do, otherwise in low point games ethreal creatures wouldnt get hurt!!
Erm, no, Magic Weapons are a seperate type of magic item, they don't need to state they are Magic Weapons.

Current ruling

Mane of the Purebreed does not specifically state it gives Magical Attacks.

Magic Weapons are not specifically stated to give Magical Attacks (for as far as i know).

Ethereal Creatures can be harmed by Magic Weapons, Daemons and other Ethereal Creatures (the VC ones at least, i dunno about the Green Knight).

In HoC, it is said that the Daemonic Aura Ward Save does not apply to Magical Attacks (spells and magic items).
_ _ _ _ _

So it's entirely open to your interpretation. If you think Mane of the Purebreed gives Magical Attacks because it is a magic item, no one can 100% stop you from claiming this. They same goes if you think the Staff of Darkoth (Arcane Item) gives you Magical Attacks. Hell, you can claim pretty much anything you want, even that Magic Banners give a unit Magical Attacks. I fear GW wants us to use "common sense" here. ;)

Festus
04-04-2005, 09:42
Precisely!
Well said!
Bravo!

erm... but what exactly does your *common sense* tell you on the matter?

(I still go with: Increases S magically, so it is a magic attack)

Greetings
Festus

anarchistica
04-04-2005, 18:21
Common sense to me says that unless you smack someone over the head with a magic item it's not a Magical Attack. The Mane of the Purebreed simply gives the unit a bonus, like the Warbanner or the Hydra Banner, it doesn't give them Magical Attacks.

BullBuchanan
04-04-2005, 21:25
sorry i have to disagree just based on the fact that some magic items such as bretonnain lances state they they do magical attacks. If all magic weapons did this then it would be a redundant statement. Just because it doesnt specifically state that it DOESN'T do magical attacks, doesn't mean that it does. (wow four uses of does in one sentence :) )

off-topic, but does armor with a dwarf rune on it count as magical armor?

anarchistica
04-04-2005, 23:25
sorry i have to disagree just based on the fact that some magic items such as bretonnain lances state they they do magical attacks. If all magic weapons did this then it would be a redundant statement. Just because it doesnt specifically state that it DOESN'T do magical attacks, doesn't mean that it does. (wow four uses of does in one sentence :) )
So you would say the Hydra Banner gives you Magical Attacks? And Skavenbrew?


off-topic, but does armor with a dwarf rune on it count as magical armor?
For as far as i know, no.

Festus
05-04-2005, 08:19
sorry i have to disagree just based on the fact that some magic items such as bretonnain lances state they they do magical attacks. If all magic weapons did this then it would be a redundant statement. Just because it doesnt specifically state that it DOESN'T do magical attacks, doesn't mean that it does. (wow four uses of does in one sentence :) )

Well, all Magic Weapons confer Magic Attacks, I think this is clear.
But Anarchistica's exmaple with the Banners is far-fetched, as those banners do not grant a bonus to the attack, so shouldn't be considered here IMO.


off-topic, but does armor with a dwarf rune on it count as magical armor?
Yes, it does.
Every item inscribed with runes turns into a magic item for all purposes and uses.
cf. p.18 WHArmies: Dwarfs

Greetings
Festus

Falkman
05-04-2005, 08:52
But Anarchistica's exmaple with the Banners is far-fetched, as those banners do not grant a bonus to the attack, so shouldn't be considered here IMO.

Well, Anars example with the banner DO in fact grant a bonus to the attack, since the Hydra banner gives all members of the unit +1 attack.

Festus
05-04-2005, 10:33
Hi

This seems to affect the members of the unit, not the attacks IMO.
Another example is a Sword +1A. This affects the wielder. But as the Weapon in itself is magical, the attacks of the weapon are too.

Greetings
Festus

Falkman
05-04-2005, 10:34
Hi

This seems to affect the members of the unit, not the attacks IMO.

As does the Mane, it confers +1 Strength to the horses of the unit on the first charge.

anarchistica
05-04-2005, 15:11
Well, all Magic Weapons confer Magic Attacks, I think this is clear.
Oh? What's your source? Nothing is clear because you think it is, only an actual reference to the rules that specifically state that all magic weapons confer Magical Attacks would do.


But Anarchistica's exmaple with the Banners is far-fetched, as those banners do not grant a bonus to the attack, so shouldn't be considered here IMO.
As Falkman already said, the Banner has wording identical to the Mane...


Yes, it does.
Every item inscribed with runes turns into a magic item for all purposes and uses.
cf. p.18 WHArmies: Dwarfs
I can't find that line on page 19 of the Dwarf book. The only things i find in reference to this say "effectively" and "in principle", they don't say armour inscribed with runes is magic armour, just that it works identical to magic armour.

*loves rule-lawyering* :D

Major Defense
05-04-2005, 16:25
Seems that everyone wants to give their two cents here. I guess I'll weigh in and make it a buck. Just try to be objective while reading the following.

Alarielle, the Everqueen of Avelorn, grants the 'Boon of Isha'. It gives a unit +1 to hit and specifically states that the attacks count as magical attacks. That ability is factored into the 515 points cost of that unique character. Many spells in the game that improve attacks state whether they infer the bonus of "magical attacks" (i.e.: 'Flaming Sword of Rhuin' does but 'The Bear's Anger' and 'Pha's Illumination' do not) and that ability of those spell is factored into its casting level. If this Bretonnian item does not say "magical attacks" then it does not grant them. To bring up the wording of actual magic weapons is just useless rules lawyering because we aren't talking about magic weapons here.

Festus
05-04-2005, 20:37
I can't find that line on page 19 of the Dwarf book. The only things i find in reference to this say "effectively" and "in principle", they don't say armour inscribed with runes is magic armour, just that it works identical to magic armour.

*loves rule-lawyering* :D
Well, I said p.18 BTW, last paragraph ;)

Greetings
FEstus

anarchistica
05-04-2005, 23:08
Well, I said p.18 BTW, last paragraph ;)

Greetings
FEstus
Yeah i mean page 18, the pagenumber is kinda hard to make out when you zoom out.

And as i said, it only says "effectively" and "in principle". Runic armour might work exactly like magic armour, but it ain't.

Atrahasis
06-04-2005, 11:31
To those claiming any bonus to attacks gives magical attacks :

Does Armour of the Gods grant magical attacks?
Does a unit of bulls under the influence of Bullgorger have magical attacks?

Where does it end? Does a bonus to Initiative mean that attacks made at that Initiative are magical?

Unless an item or effect says that it grants magical attacks, then it does not.