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IkuTurso
09-08-2006, 20:44
I've been to warhammer for couple of years now and I'm thinking of starting 40k too.
the armies I'm considering are:
Ultramarines
Black templars
Necrons

Can someone tell me the pros and cons of these armies and maybe tell if I should or shouldnt collect some of these and why.
Thanks in advance.

Gen.Steiner
09-08-2006, 20:52
If you're going to go for Space Marines, go Ultramarine. They are the ultimate Space Marine chapter (their Primarch saved the Imperium after the Heresy), and their 'dex is the standard Space Marine 'dex, which will enable you to change your mind and collect a chapter of your own devising (or even a really random Codex chapter - how about the Space Sharks, Iron Snakes, or Minotaurs?).

Black Templars I am not enamoured with. Bad models in my opinion.

Necrons - ridiculously easy to paint, very hard in the game, robotic skellingtons.

To be honest you might have more fun with the Imperial Guard...

Baneboss
09-08-2006, 20:57
Just dont choose your army for winning purposes unless you wanna participate in lots of tournaments.

I chose mine for looks before i knew much about gaming.

marv335
09-08-2006, 21:07
ultramarines; too common. why not devise your own chapter?
black templars; too easy, although can be made to look stunning with basic conversion
necrons; booooring. sorry, they are and i should know, i've got 3000+pts of them


my advice?

wait a few months for the eldar. if even half the rumours are true you'll be glad you did.

Eidolon
09-08-2006, 23:52
I think you should give us more info on why you narrowed it down to these three. Maybe we would be able to help you more if we had an idea on what you're looking for.

I find it hard suggesting an army from these three, as I don't really like any of them. Maybe you should get yourself some generic marines, experiment with different traits and army lists and see what works for you. You may then choose the chapter that you like (or make you own) and theme your force accordingly.

ThousandPlateaus
10-08-2006, 00:10
Black Templars I am not enamoured with. Bad models in my opinion.


D'you think so? In what way?

johhny-turbo
10-08-2006, 00:49
Ultramarines- These guys are everywhere. Easily the most common army. Rather standard. They're good and reliable with no glaring weaknesses and reletivly flexible. I find them kinda boring though.

Black Templars- A rather nice deviation from Space Marine norm. Cool units and cool stats. Your purchases will be large (scouts+tactical+uprage sprue) but you can easily spread that out several units and the updrade box has alot of sprues.

Necrons- My current army. They don't appear customizable but that's just the surface. The units for the most part have to rely on each other so you cant just go on brute force (well you can, but be prepared to phase out real fast). I feel that Necrons make you think more about tactics then the army list which is a plus. Also the easiest army to paint while coming out with good looking models (anti-thesis of wood elves)

Nabeshin1106
10-08-2006, 01:13
I would say Necrons. They're easy to paint, and you can get lots of points from a small amount of models.
Then again, I'm just really sick of marines beause EVERYONE uses them, and I've been trying to steer people away from any time of Imperium Marine army i can.

'Fex
10-08-2006, 05:14
For a starter army, SM is usually the best choice. The models don't look bad, their codex was just redone so they won't come across a new one for a while, and the stats makes it easier for a player to learn.

I think tau, necrons and eldar would be too much for a basic starter...
Space Marines are well rounded, which can help ease a player in.

My suggestion is play with a small SM force for a while, and get to know the game. Then do some research on another army you might be interested in. The move on from there.

Toppan
10-08-2006, 06:34
my suggestion?

quit deciding armies so fast. do at least 2 weeks of research on fluff, models, paint schemes, practice army lists, and wargear lists. then compile a personal pro/con list of all the armies. then take off the ones with the most personal cons. then i suggest you talk to other players of said remaining army, do a little more research and plan a little more, then get back to us.
but thats just what id do.

also, dont choose variations of armies first, go with just saying, space marines or eldar, not ulthwe or black templars. after you make the army decision then customize it.

Malphax
10-08-2006, 08:22
I agree with Toppan. My first army was a World Eaters army I inherited from one of my friends, and at first I thought it was really cool, but I eventually ended up hating it. After some solid research into other armies, I've found two I truly enjoy playing with. I dunno about two weeks worth, but make sure to pick an army that appeals to you not only for the rules, but also the modelling/painting opportunities and the fluff. The easier you can put yourself into the mindset of your army the better you'll understand it, and the better player you'll be.

On that note, I think you should play Dark Eldar. :)

IkuTurso
10-08-2006, 08:28
Well, I like black templars over ultramarines but do I have to buy those upgrade boxes lot becouse they are 30 euros per box? I like dreadronaughts(spelling?) what armies use thunderhammers btw they are cool.
and I also like necrons, cool models, fast to paint,altought they dont offer much challenge at painting and they dont have any vechiles.

Zook
10-08-2006, 09:08
Necrons are by far the most boring force in the game imo. They're boring to play against, they look kinda boring and their fluff is boring. So I wouldn't go for those.

Ultras is probably the most common force and I can understand that some people are getting tired of them, though I don't mind. They're easy to play with and fun to play against.

I haven't had any experience from BT but if I were going to play marines I'd go for the Dark Angels or Ultras. For some reason I don't find BT very appealing.

If I were you I'd do as it has been said before: Do some heavy research. And when you've chosen what army to play, plan carefully how you want your army to look before running out and buying models.

And btw, I'd wait a couple of months and then go for Eldar, they're simply awsome.

Helicon_One
10-08-2006, 11:28
Just do Orks!

Out of the ones you listed, I'd probably go for Ultras - although I'd prefer to do a successor chapter for something a bit more uncommon. Necrons are just bland in every way, and Templars kinda limited (saying that, I'm not too familiar with their 4th Ed incarnation).

Tim

Broadside
10-08-2006, 12:04
due to some bad players of Black templars in my area id suggest avoidin them as all we here from 1 guy is "ive nearly 6000pts of BT" which is startin to get annoyin

but i do suggest wait for the eldar theres alot of new stuff on the way and its all kick ass

Ravenous
10-08-2006, 12:25
tell him thats fantasic he decided to waste tons of money on 4000pts he will use maybe a few times a decade

bob syko
10-08-2006, 12:42
The advantage of all three of these armies is the fact they are all really easy to paint to a high standard, the problem with the Necrons is there is no telling when they will get more models(if ever), this won't be a problem with SM's especially the black templars as they seem to be GW's new poster children.

How about Orks? Limitless coversion opportunities and a really big community for them here on Warseer.

SwordJon
10-08-2006, 20:46
I think tau, necrons and eldar would be too much for a basic starter...
Space Marines are well rounded, which can help ease a player in.


I dunno. I started with Tau, sold them, and went to Orks. And I did fairly well with the Tau even though most of my gaming group were veteran Marine players and/or Aliatoc/Ulthwe with 3 wraithlords :rolleyes:. Never played Fantasy before. I think if a person learns to play without relying on 3+ saves it will do them good, in the end. But that's just me. I don't wanna play Marines, really, although Chaos interests me a little. Now I just play Orks because... well... Waaagh!

At any rate, I would suggest staying away from Marines. Yes, the tactics are fairly simple, easy to grasp, easy to paint models, etc. But what fun is there in that? For me, not much. I've borrowed friends Marine armies to play with before and it seems to me that it takes more brainpower to win with Orks than it does with Marine :wtf:.

Xander-K
10-08-2006, 21:24
yeah be careful not to choose an army too quick, make sure to read as much of the codex of a possible army first, then look at the models, visualise how you want to paint them, how much time they will take you to assemble/paint etc. the rough cost of a basic army

Once you have done all this, write out an army list and see if you have a fairly varied/fun selection of units.. I have changed my mind for army so many times, and i know i'm not the only one, so choose carefully, it will save you some money!

Lloydy
11-08-2006, 16:21
I personally would start with Necrons although they can be as hard to master as any of the other races. Painting wise, they are easy and they have some nice fluff.

Wraithbored
11-08-2006, 16:23
I would suggest Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Eldar Or Orks

Toppan
11-08-2006, 21:23
ive sort of sigged that thingy i wrote, as i think its a VERY good little idear.

i cant suggest any armies as ive only played orks, but if you like converting, play orks. as far as i can tell, no other armies can really convert that well...maybe IG...

hellfire
12-08-2006, 01:41
do what toppan said

Chem-Dog
12-08-2006, 04:27
To be honest you might have more fun with the Imperial Guard...

Quoted for truth, IG are THE best army in the game, even if you never win a game EVER, they are the best.

VetSgtNamaan
12-08-2006, 05:09
The best way to figure out what army you will like is if you have friends who play 40k borrow thier armies and play some small games with them. I know I picked Deathwing purely because of the fluff. A squad freeing thier planet from genestealer cultist awesome stuff.

Starting an army will be an expensive venture regardless of what you pick so you will want to take the time to try stuff out and make sure you are not wasting your money.

Ravenous
12-08-2006, 07:12
Or just proxy it for awhile. You can either buy the bags of bases or spend the $2 on a sheet of board cut them out yourself and use that until you are with happy how it plays.

On the flip side buy the army with the models you think are pretty.

wasting a grand is a terrible thing.

Lt. Mitch
12-08-2006, 08:44
I would suggest that you go with Necrons.

Ultra Marines;
+ Tactical Flexability, reasonably easy to play with, good model range, regular updates
- Vanilla Marines, common.

Black Temlars;
+ More interesting fluff than Ultras, non vanilla, good assault options, SOME nice models, regular updates, forgiving playstyle, very easy paint scheme.
- Marines, some bad models, common.

Necrons;
+ Interesting fluff, small amount of mini's for pts, easy paint scheme, nice models (IMHO), less common than marines!
- Less forgiving playstyle, can have a lack of mobility, one vehicle, MEq, Ctan only usable for a laugh.

But I would have to say choose which ever army that really apeals too you the most. It will make the modeling and painting more fun and increase your chances of finishing your army.

Oh, and i'd avoid Meq at all costs if it was me!

Gen.Steiner
12-08-2006, 11:30
I would suggest that you go with Necrons.

...

Oh, and i'd avoid Meq at all costs if it was me!

You do know that Necrons are MEQ? 3+ save, you know... :p


Well, I like black templars over ultramarines but do I have to buy those upgrade boxes lot becouse they are 30 euros per box? I like dreadronaughts(spelling?) what armies use thunderhammers btw they are cool.

Thunderhammers? Dreadnoughts? This is a job for...

...The Imperial Fists!

Ultramarines in yellow paint, who specialise in sieges and fortifications, who tote Thunderhammers coming out of their ears, and like Dreadnoughts. It'd fit the Salamanders too to be honest, and all you need is the basic Codex Space Marines and none of these fiddly Black Templar upgrade sets*.

* Although even for Black Templars you don't need those - basic marines painted black will look just as good, if not better, because you're not using those crappy BT models. Which I don't like because they're waaay too "Knights in Space! Lol!" for my tastes.

Venomizer
12-08-2006, 11:40
I'd say Necrons

Pros:

* as easy or complex to paint as you want them to be
* very nice model range
* very nice background
* not as common as marines

Cons:
* not exactly the army you want, if mass mobility is your game
* not the army you want if you like your vehicles
* regardless of what list you take, some people will still call you boring :rolleyes:


the best way to choose an army IMO, is to pick the army that you like the 'feel' of completely - models, background etc. - that way you'll end up with an army you'll want to finish and be happy to game with

Lt. Mitch
12-08-2006, 11:44
You do know that Necrons are MEQ? 3+ save, you know...

:cries: I know, I know:cries:

Should have said something like;

Oh, and I'd avoid MEq at all costs if it was me, something like Tau/Eldar/Orks would be more interesting and less common. :D

Gen.Steiner
12-08-2006, 12:04
That's more like it! :D :p

Xander-K
12-08-2006, 12:25
Eldar in my books are the most flexible, deadly force on the tabletop. If you don't mind the somewhat feminine models, then go for Eldar, they have a lot of fun special rules/specialist units and have weapons that pack a lot of punch.

I used to play Eldar, but I dropped them because I couldn't get a uniform look/scheme for the army, so it looked a rag-tag band of clowns which just isn't on! I started making Necrons recently, but the models are a little boring (except Immortals they're great) I would personally go for Templars as they are like basic marines but with a little more flavour, and some nice command miniatures out there.

ThousandPlateaus
12-08-2006, 12:36
...because you're not using those crappy BT models. Which I don't like because they're waaay too "Knights in Space! Lol!" for my tastes.

What?! Gah! What rubbish you speak! The BT's are excellent! And they *are* Knights in Space!

Gen.Steiner
12-08-2006, 12:39
Yes. They are Knights in Space. Along with all the other Space Marines!

Black Templars take it too far. "Hurr letz charge in2 close combat lol it r teh best!!!!!"

Just... no. No no no. Also, the models are poor sculpts, and which brain-fried monkey came up with chaining the weapons to themselves! Arrrrgh!

ThousandPlateaus
12-08-2006, 12:50
It's brilliant - they're absolute lunatics! Most of those vile, abhuman Marines have something very wrong somewhere in their Geneseed, and with the BTs it's obviously manifested in their capacity for reason, they're just...tapped.

Other Marines may be Knights in space, but I love the fact that the BTs just don't care that the Crusades are over - off they go, smiting everything in their path; they're worse than the HiveMind in their capacity to just destroy everything that gets in their way..

Of course they take it too far - they're deranged!

Do you really think they're bad sculpts, though? I'm suprised - although I've not taken a close enough look at them as yet, in pictures they all seem good.

And the chained weapons = cool!
Inseperable! Even whilst trying to open doors/scratch that itch/wipe bottoms/etc...

Gen.Steiner
12-08-2006, 12:53
Well, all I can say is that my highly subjective, entirely personal, assessment of the BTs is that they suck in their current incarnation. I much preferred the old BTs, of the Codex: Armageddon supplement. They were fine. But now they've got all this sillyness, and it's just... oh, I don't know. :(

Lt. Mitch
12-08-2006, 12:55
I take a short break from the hobby (10yrs) and what do I find has happened to my favourite Rogue Trader Genetically Modified Physchopaths in space?

They've all shouted HUZZAH! and charged headlong into close combat. I mean your average BT would go up like a torch due to all the paper hanging off him. And have you ever tried to change a magazine for a rifle with a massive sword chained to your free arm? :D

ThousandPlateaus
12-08-2006, 13:01
Meh. Armageddon BTs were completely overshadowed by the Steel Legion so I didn't pay them much notice...

And, Mitch, pah! Who needs to change a magazine rifle when you've got a massive sword!

Anyway, back on topic; of the three armies listed, I'd go for Ultramarines, no really! As much as everyone hates them because they're common and vanilla, some of their latest miniatures have been utterly, utterly wonderous - like the Honour Guard. You'd only need the Space Marine Codex, like Steiner said, they're easy to pick up, learn with and add to, and if done well - they look absolutely amazing.

BTs are a personal favourite, but I reckon they'll need a lot of care and attention to get them looking amazing, and Necrons Schmecrons...