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jahorin
10-08-2006, 12:17
just a quick question.

can you stand and shoot with hail of doom arrow?

i would be incline to say yes. but i just want to check here before i go into a debate with my opponent(s).

Atrahasis
10-08-2006, 12:23
No reason why not.

StormCrow
10-08-2006, 14:09
Yes you certainly can, as i found out the hard way.

DeathlessDraich
10-08-2006, 16:19
A good question jahorin and much harder than expected to resolve. Although I agreed with the others as a gut feeling, it took me sometime to find some relevant rule references which left me uncertain.

Pg 152:" Magic Weapons: By which we mean ... bows, crossbows etc

The 'etc' must include arrows which incidentally is not in the missile weapon list but must be there by implication.

Pg 152: " A character who has a magic close combat weapon cannot use other close combat weapons"

'Close Combat' but since bow has been included previously, it can be assumed that Magic Bows are included.

Therefore a Bow of Loren Must be used in Standing and Shooting.

Hail of Doom however is an Enchanted Item - Nothing helpful in the rules.

The rules for Stand and Shoot:
Pg 45: "If the charged unit has missile weapons .... can (stand and) shoot"

The interpretation of missile weapons is important and there have been long debates about it. It does not state only 'normal' missile weapons Or either normal or magic arrows cannot be used but can that be assumed?

So can Wood elf characters S&S with Hail of Doom, Arcane bodkins etc?
Those who say yes must accept that Strangle Roots can S&S.
I think Atrahasis mentioned that Strangle Roots would be able to do so in a future Wood Elves Errata.

Another example:
1) A Skaven Engineer with a Brass Orb (similar to Death globes). Can it S&S?

DeathMasterSnikch
10-08-2006, 16:26
Another example:
1) A Skaven Engineer with a Brass Orb (similar to Death globes). Can it S&S?

Doubt it would if it could. Skaven arn't known for bravery and oppening a crack in reality a few foot infront of you takes some mighty large footballs.

I'm against the idea of S&S with anything besides magic weapons. Arcane, enchanted etc are out by vote of a house rule.

Another thing is can a skink S&S with the Staff Of Lost Sun? We said yes as it was a magical weapon in the game it happend (resulting in a dead night runner -Oh no :rolleyes:- )

god octo
10-08-2006, 16:55
I would say yes, as you can s&s with other magic arrows and it doesnt say anything against it- though in 7th ed, something may come up.

DeathlessDraich
10-08-2006, 17:43
I'm against the idea of S&S with anything besides magic weapons. Arcane, enchanted etc are out by vote of a house rule.

Another thing is can a skink S&S with the Staff Of Lost Sun? We said yes as it was a magical weapon in the game it happend (resulting in a dead night runner -Oh no :rolleyes:- )

Reading your posts is hard, in more ways than 1;) ,Snikch with that 'wiggle' in the background.:D

Atrahasis
10-08-2006, 18:51
Pg 152: " A character who has a magic close combat weapon cannot use other close combat weapons"

'Close Combat' but since bow has been included previously, it can be assumed that Magic Bows are included.

No. You do not need to assume anything. It specifies close combat weapons, and so that is what it means.

mageith
10-08-2006, 19:19
Hail of Doom however is an Enchanted Item - Nothing helpful in the rules.

:) Or it may be the answer. Can you stand and shoot with an Enchanted item?

I don't have the WE rules here at work. How is this Enchanted weapon used? Is there any reference to a bow? Is there a requirement for a bow? Or is that merely implied?

Personally I'd allow it, if the possesor has purchased a bow or a bow comes with the Hail of Doom Arrow.

Also when is the Hail of Doom used? Is it in the shooting phase or in some other phase, like the magic phase?

Obviously the name implies its an arrow and therefore part of a small missile weapon. The fact that it is an Enchanted Item may or may not cause a rules hiccup.

god octo
10-08-2006, 20:37
the Hail of doom arrow is fired exactly like a normal arrow, but when it is fired, all the special affects of the bow are discounted and up to 18 shots can be fired:D . All the magic arrows are treated like normal arrows, so to speak.

gortexgunnerson
10-08-2006, 20:43
So can Wood elf characters S&S with Hail of Doom, Arcane bodkins etc?
Those who say yes must accept that Strangle Roots can S&S.
I think Atrahasis mentioned that Strangle Roots would be able to do so in a future Wood Elves Errata.

Strangle root cannot stand and shoot as the treeman does not have a missile weapon, he has a ranged attack.

P61 "If a charge is declared against a unit with missile weapons it can respond by shooting"

Is the same rule that prevents flamers, salamanders etc from stand and shoot. They all have ranged attacks not missile weapons.

Atrahasis
10-08-2006, 21:06
Strangle root cannot stand and shoot as the treeman does not have a missile weapon, he has a ranged attack.

GW think differently. The list of clarifications issued to me as a GW forum mod and GT ref say that a treeman can S&S.

Hagge
22-08-2006, 01:37
Magic arrows are enchanted items that are fired from a missile weapon so there effect for a stand an shoot reaction must be useable since it says a hero takes enough magic arrows to last the battle i mean why would he take any other arrows when hes got arcane bodkins :D so he must be useing them.

In the case of Hail of doom arrow its description is its a single arrow that splits into multiple arrows so whats really stoping him/her from useing that arrow when hes being charged.