PDA

View Full Version : Need more GUNS



Griffin
10-08-2006, 14:06
After getting converted to the ranks of the IG, I have decided that my Cadians need more Heavy weapons. All you gaurd players out there, what would you say is the cheapest way to get more Heavy Weapons like, Heavy bolters, PLasma guns enc.


Allso do you guys buy more HW teams for the lascannons/Auto cannons ? or do you convert in some other manner ?

Simsandwich
10-08-2006, 14:08
Ok Here you go.
Buy the Heavy Weapon Platoon Box Set for £20.
Then buy some 60mm Bases.
Instead of only making 3, you can make like 12-15 Heavy Weapon Teams.

Griffin
10-08-2006, 14:11
Exscuse my ignorance but what do you mean 60mm bases ?

ashc
10-08-2006, 14:19
He means the big grab-bags of bases in GW, usually hanging with the rest of the scenery etc, or take a look on the online store's 'Hobby' section.

Ash

Griffin
10-08-2006, 14:23
Oh ok I'll go look online - We don't have Games Workshops here.

ashc
10-08-2006, 14:29
No problem; you could of course choose not to mount them on those bases; alot of players find them awkward and instead mount the gunner and loader seperately; but i like the large bases for prettiness :)

Ash

Griffin
10-08-2006, 14:37
Orly ?, I was actually thinking the same thing just now, I could allso use them to bulk out my Numbers abit if i'm selecting more models.

Where do you guys get Hbolters and Plasma guns ?

Hmmm

Simsandwich
10-08-2006, 14:40
My Dear Friend, blister packs sell them in them.
Heavy Bolters are in the HEAVY WEAPONS PLATOON Set.
PLASMAGUNS come in a blister.

Griffin
10-08-2006, 14:59
Ahh - I've never bought a blister in my entire life. Besides I only got into this a while ago, so I buy everything online. I have one other person in like a 1000 Miles to play with and No Games Workshops in my country, so please forgive my ignorance.

FallenScholar
10-08-2006, 15:04
If you can order bits from GW the chaos marine command sprue has a great plastic plasma gun. Hint I am a guard player (Praetorians) dont take the plasma. It's nice but not worth it when you fry yourself. Go with Rocket launchers instead.


Fallen Scholar

ashc
10-08-2006, 15:19
If you can order bits from GW the chaos marine command sprue has a great plastic plasma gun. Hint I am a guard player (Praetorians) dont take the plasma. It's nice but not worth it when you fry yourself. Go with Rocket launchers instead.


Fallen Scholar

So instead of opting for a special weapon you tell him to take a heavy weapon, thats plain strange :confused:

I wouldnt take plasma on standard squads either; i like to reserve 'special' special weapons (meltas and plasmas) for command squads, veterans, and stormtroopers; if you want a good versatile special weapon thats fluffy too take grenade launchers on your shooty units and flamers on small bog-down-the-enemy units.

Just my opinion though.

Ash

Griffin
10-08-2006, 15:44
Advice always welcome.

HeraldoftheGods
10-08-2006, 15:54
Although I don't play guard, in support of the other guys from what I've heard most good IG generals steer clear of the plasma. It costs alot, is on a low BS trooper, and if it does overheat he's only got a slim chance of making his save.

Helicon_One
10-08-2006, 16:24
Plasma guns are incredibly easy to convert by taking a bolter and a plasma pistol from the SM plastics (your marine playing friends should have loads of these spare) and cutting them so they fit together with the barrel of the plasma pistol replacing the barrel of the bolter.

Tim

xibo
10-08-2006, 16:29
meltaguns and grenade launchers into the squads. (meltas) not too fluffy, but will keep you mobile and beware of tank shocks.
the csm command sprue has a plasma launcher, a plasma pistol, a power fist & sword that might fit cadians if you don't put the sm shoulder pad on it and a heavy boltgun. theres also a lsm sprue ( bt crusade sprue ) which is more expensive, but also has a flamer ( a different to the cadian one ), a meltgun and alot of useless sm stuff :D
btw. i think grenade launchers are most versatile if you fight anything else than Meq frequently.

Toppan
10-08-2006, 18:03
when i read this thread title i admitted to thinking something entirely different. need more guns brought up that armies need more unique guns. all 5 imperial armies all have the same guns...why? standard issue? the DH and WH have unique weaponry and guns, but the marines and IG both have the same. CSM have a few, but other than that, its the same.

i think that since SM and CSM arent supposed to have that many special weapons, seeing as the bolter is considered the alimighty fist of the emperor and whatnot. this doesnt apply to CSM, but then...wouldnt shooting fireballs out of your hand made of pure warp energies be far better?

as for IG, they should have quite a few more weapons than they have. i know the whole fluff background behind why they dont, but still, you dont see american troops running around with vietnamese weapons do you?

maybe that was a bad analogy, but i think by this point you realize what im saying. IG need more special weapons, SM need less, CSM need more fluffy ones. its not like a plasma gun infested with warp energy would be the same as a normal one. say on a 1 instead of overheating the warp energies turn the model into a spawn :)

Baneboss
10-08-2006, 18:04
Ask your SM buddies for spare plasma pistols. Then take your lasguns and try to fit both together. Works for me.

You can use heavy stubbers from tank kits and use them as count as HBs.

ghostmaker12
10-08-2006, 19:14
if your gonna take plasmas beware of frying yourself id go with what every other person has said and use grenade launchers and if your playing COD use some flamers because they ignore cover saves.

btw where do you live?

Xurben
10-08-2006, 19:23
Plasma makes the game fun though!

Aside from that, if you lose him to an overheat its what.. 12 pts gone? If he kills almost anything it's paids for itself, also having a plasma gun/missle launcher in every squad make my opponents respect my lowly guardsmen. It's also very fluffy, but I play Tallarn.

To me, despite the overheating chance, its the most versitile assault/heavy weapon combo guard can get. There is nothing the squad cannot kill with some effectiveness.

Getz
10-08-2006, 19:29
I rarely go to war without some Plasmaguns, the question is where you put them... I put them in my Command squads where the Medic can stop them dying all the time. I generally don't put them into infantry squads except when I'm abolutely sure I'll be facing Terminators (and I'm pleased to say, in my club that's by no means certain...)

Shadowfax
10-08-2006, 21:50
No problem; you could of course choose not to mount them on those bases; alot of players find them awkward and instead mount the gunner and loader seperately
Is this technically legit, considering that the HW teams come with the 60mm bases now?

UnRiggable
10-08-2006, 21:57
Ok Here you go.
Buy the Heavy Weapon Platoon Box Set for 20.
Then buy some 60mm Bases.
Instead of only making 3, you can make like 12-15 Heavy Weapon Teams.

EXPLAIN PLEASE?!?

MrMojoZ
10-08-2006, 22:40
EXPLAIN PLEASE?!?

There are enough extra parts in the platoon box to make more than the default number of teams.

UnRiggable
10-08-2006, 22:43
Don't they come with 12 weapons (4 per team) 6 models and 3 weapon holders?

Inq. Veltane
10-08-2006, 23:25
15 heavy weapons. Mortars, Missile Launchers, Autocannon, Lascannon, Heavy Bolters. You can comfortably make the first two plus one of the last three. If you're inventive you can manage two of the last three but they won't look as good. Or you can just have it so you can swap between Lascannon and Autocannon with the same models very easily. Anyway, to make it work you need to add 9 normal cadians. You then have a crouching gunner with a standing loader for six weapons and then the missile launchers can be standing.

Seleucus
11-08-2006, 00:27
Is this technically legit, considering that the HW teams come with the 60mm bases now?


Yes, it's totally legit - GW advised that they have only put them on the 60mm bases as it is simpler to move around etc., not for any rules reason. Most of the metal figs are on single bases - Catachan, Valhallan etc, though you can model them on other bases if you wish.

In fact, putting both gunner and loader on 60mm bases actually causes a slight problem - if one is killed, you can't take him off, so need to keep a record, or use a counter system to remember who is dead!

I tend to have a mix in my Cadians - Missile Launchers are usually attached to standing troopers on their own base, and you can do the same with mortar teams if you put the mortar on it's own 25mm base. But heavy weapon sqds tend to be on the 60mm bases as it looks better to me.

I also have plenty of spare special weapons guys, and some heavies - mostly converted using spare weapons from my bitz box (ex SM, CSM or Necromunda - the Goliath one-handed grenade launcher for instance!) and swap in and out as the mood takes me, so that I do not play the same style of army every time. But I try to do this BEFORE I know who/what I am facing, to avoid tooling up for the enemy I am going to face.

Also useful if I decide to play hardened vets with 3 meltas or flamers, or special weapons teams, or, occasionally, fit my command sqd out with all special weapons.

I have also used a lot of the Necromunda metal heavy weapons, all hand-held, to convert/up-date my old RT/1st edition plastic guard, all on 25mm bases.

You get the fun of converting and painting up one-off figs and then playing with different set ups.

Seleucus

ekister101
11-08-2006, 00:34
I use plasma all the time in my guard army. The combo of plasma/rocket launcher means potentially 2 auto marine killers per squad, 6 per platoon, 12 per troop slot, in addition to 30 flashlights, which should, on average cause the MEQ player to take 3-6 saves per firing phase. All at 24 inch range. Even better when they close within rapid fire range. When you have 3 troop slots, along with a command squad with a lascannon/plasma gun and 3 pie plates a turn you can do a tremendous amount of damage.

Sure you lose some plasma gunners to overheat, sometimes 3 or 4 times, but the opportunity to kill MEQ outright is too much to give away. I never use grenade launchers, too many power armour armies here in my area. Flamers are nice in COD, but why would you want to close to within 7 inches with guardsmen in a regular game?

Second- getting into cover of some sort (area terrain is really nice) you can make the special weapon and heavy weapon last even longer. It is crucial to most troop heavy IG armies.

Third - I have really been seeing some effective IG armies with autocannons. I don't care for them, especially since I only have a couple. But they do act as both troop and light vehicle killers, making them pretty darn effective. Nice to get 2 shots against those pesky rhinos and chimeras, something you don't get with a rocket launcher, made even better with sharpshooters.

Finally - can a medic save a plasma overheat? I thought that was ruled out.

Getz
11-08-2006, 01:39
Where on earth did you get that idea? The Plasma/medic command squad has been popular for years...

ekister101
11-08-2006, 02:08
who knows? LOL I truly thought that it had been errated in an update. Oh well!! Learn something new everyday.

Griffin
11-08-2006, 07:05
I live in South Africa.

So getting bitz from Other players is out (there are only 2 others in a 500 Miles radius of me)

However I got some really cool Ideas from You guys, I Fight Nids or CSM/SM on a regular basis.

How do you guys feel about mortars ? In a small 500pt engagement I always try and field as many mortars as possible versus my nid opponent, cause I just like mortars.

Allso would you say a mixture of Auto cannons and Grenade launchers are good against SM ? I build my forces more for fluff than anything else, but it's nice winning now and then aswell.

I basically need to figure out ways to get the most efficient use out of my sprues because it takes me about a Month to receive anything if I order.

Are there any common tips and tricks for maximizing use of your bitz ? Allso can somebody post a small 500 and 1000 pt list effective against nids or csm ? I really need some help getting a decent force together.

Toppan
11-08-2006, 07:30
instakill things are really good vs. marines...plasma and missles, meltas etc. its really enjoyable to see marine player's faces when you shoot their commander and he fails his inv...

ashc
11-08-2006, 07:50
instakill things are really good vs. marines...plasma and missles, meltas etc. its really enjoyable to see marine player's faces when you shoot their commander and he fails his inv...

But not with a plasma; its not strength double his toughness and so wont instakill him.... the other 2 would though.

Ash

Epicenter
11-08-2006, 10:19
instakill things are really good vs. marines...plasma and missles, meltas etc. its really enjoyable to see marine player's faces when you shoot their commander and he fails his inv...

Plasma guns can't insta-kill a Marine, though. You need a Strength 8 weapon for that.

You might also want to check out places like Battlewagon Bits (www.bwbits.com) for additional plasmaguns and meltaguns if you're playing with a plastic Guard army (new Cadians, Catachans). Just buy the plasmaguns and meltaguns from Space Marines as bits from them and stick them on instead of lasguns. In the long run, it's a lot cheaper than buying pewter plasma and melta operators in blisters. Admittedly, it doesn't look quite as good as the pewter figs, but eh. It looks good enough and you have the benefit of being able to pose the figure.

ekister101
11-08-2006, 14:32
It can insta-kill any marine that doesn't have an invul save. It is an AP 2 weapon - so no regular save is allowed. That is why rapid firing plasma guns are so deadly against terminators, 2 guys can kill 4 termies.

Back to the question from out friend out in the middle of nowhere. You can also figure out a way to switch weapons on and off using really small magnets if you have skills with converting.

And 500 miles shouldn't keep you from trading bitz from people. Try www.bartertown.com - people there are from all over the world and they trade all the time. Make sure to read the rules of posting before you hit the boards. :)

ashc
11-08-2006, 14:39
It can insta-kill any marine that doesn't have an invul save. It is an AP 2 weapon - so no regular save is allowed. That is why rapid firing plasma guns are so deadly against terminators, 2 guys can kill 4 termies

Its still not 'insta-kill' though is it? i mean, i you can say that a bolter against a guardsman is 'insta-kill' in that sense.

Ash

ekister101
12-08-2006, 00:09
well, in my book, if I hit and wound and they don't get any sort of save (invul, cover, etc) its an insta-kill. Perhaps the wording is copying the rulebooks wording of what an insta-kill is.

I think it is a technicality. Something that kills outright unless the offended party gets some sort of save is an insta-kill for me. Perhaps there is a better word to use, but...

Epicenter
12-08-2006, 01:24
"Denies most armor saves"

For me, insta-kill is when I can shoot a weapon that normally only does one wound at something with 2+ wounds and kill it in a single shot.

Stormhammers
12-08-2006, 05:45
I like mortars too, there is that special satisfaction when you zero in on the enemy and rain fire on him and he cant touch you. I also like that there is alos some..."skill" when using mortars, luck is involved yes, but skill still plays a factor.

Getz
12-08-2006, 12:18
I think mortars are seriously underrated. I've taken to using them in my Mechanised list as they can lob shells over my own tanks (there's nothing quite so detrimental to your LOS than eight chimeras...) although I'd probably take lascannons in a more competitiesetting...

Eitherway, I tend to find that so long as you aim them at a decent concentration of troops they'll usually do as much damage as a team of Heavy bolters...

Consider - against a T4 opponent, A Fire support team of heavy bolters will inflict 3 wounds per round of shooting on average.

To inflict the same number of wounds with a Mortar squad you need to get six models under the blast pattern, which is eminently possible unless the enemy have spread out into very loose formation. (At which point, you punish them by spanking them with a squad of Rough Riders or Ogryns, etc...)

Furthermore, the Mortar has a longer range, doesn't require line of sight and has the chance to Pin the enemy - although it is fair to say that mortars are next to useless against even light vehicles.

Whilst not a great weapon, nor is it a bad one by any means and in certain circumstances it's definately the best choice... (CoD being the classic example)