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Mephistofeles
11-08-2006, 22:23
I don't think I've seen a question about this here, but if there is one, just wack me over the head and remove the thread.

In the Vampire Counts Army Book, Special Characters Section, it says :

"You do not need to agree with your opponent about using either Zacharias or Mannfred as they are balanced for normal games..."

When I read that my mind went into a :wtf: state, they can't be serious? Is this the same for all characters in all books? Is it just a typo? Is it corrected in an Errata or something?

Keller
11-08-2006, 23:49
Typically, the special characters in the books are 100% legal, unless otherwise stated (trial rules, house rules against using them, etc.). Frankly, at 500+ points, a Lord and 2-3 hero slots, the VC special characters aren;t much of a buy, if you ask me. I'd rather have a few lesser charachters for the same cost, spread around the board where they come in handy.

Mephistofeles
12-08-2006, 09:53
Yeah, but I mean, for instance Zacharias makes a complete mockery of all your opponents attempts to cast magic, which is simply a game winner against many Lizzies and HE...

Most tournaments doesn't allow them, even if the book says they are legal, right?

Festus
12-08-2006, 10:15
Hi

Wrong.

Most tourneys allow them. There arer worse or more cheesy combinations possible for less price by using the standard armylists, so the few SCs really shouldn't be any bother...

Greetings
FEstus

Avian
12-08-2006, 11:31
In the Vampire Counts Army Book, Special Characters Section, it says :

"You do not need to agree with your opponent about using either Zacharias or Mannfred as they are balanced for normal games..."
Of course, it fails to mention that if your opponent doesn't want to face Zacharias, then he'll probably just refuse to play against you and there is not a lot you can do to prevent that. :rolleyes:

Such an odd thing to put in an army book.

Flame
12-08-2006, 11:33
Hi

Wrong.

Most tourneys allow them. There arer worse or more cheesy combinations possible for less price by using the standard armylists, so the few SCs really shouldn't be any bother...

Greetings
FEstus


Wrong.

I've never been to a single tournament in the UK that allows special characters. Part of the reason that GW has caused such a stir in the latest GT rulespack is inclusion of special characters, so no, they are not that common at tournaments.

Festus
12-08-2006, 11:45
Hi

UK tourneys may or may not be different from most other country's tournaments. May they not? :)

Greetings
Festus

edit: but you seem to be right in Germany. I checked a few recent tournies' rules. Funny, as most tournies I have been to allowed Special Characters (out of the ABooks), but nearly noone chose to play them...

Flame
12-08-2006, 11:47
They may, but in the 3 tournaments I've played on the continent not one has allowed special characters.

You seemed to infer that special characters are the norm in tournament play, wherea in my experience the exact opposite is true.

Festus
12-08-2006, 12:02
But why should one include Zacharias in his army, or Malekith, or some other monstrosity, which will never earn its points back in a competetive environment?

Most Special Characters are utter cr@p when it comes to cost-performance relation. Many are not protected enough, and those that are usually are much too expensive to earn their own weight.

It is similar to Greater Daemons: You can easily buid a Daemon Prince that costs less and has a better mix and match of abilities than its GD has. I don't know of many players that use GD for competetive reasons (none to be precise). They are only ever used for *fluff* or *coolness* reasons.

Greetings
FEstus

Flame
12-08-2006, 12:32
Morghur, Khazrak, The runelord one. Thats enough to warrent banning them IMO

Atrahasis
12-08-2006, 12:39
Khazrak isn't that great.

I'm amazed he made your list when Skragg and (more importantly) Kroak didn't.

Flame
12-08-2006, 13:02
the ability to draw ANY game (ambush last turn and contest quarters) isnt good enough for you?

Kroak is superb, I forgot about him!

Atrahasis
12-08-2006, 13:12
the ability to draw ANY game (ambush last turn and contest quarters) isnt good enough for you?

You have to take an army of herds and hounds for that to work, and that makes it difficult to win the games you need to qualify. It great for taking 1 point off a force you KNOW will kill you, but the risk of not breaking the 12-point barrier expected to be the requirement for qualification is too high IMO.

The strength of Khazrak is that he doesn't have to buy dross to allow his effective units to ambush. His most effective army would, as far as I can see, be an army with a few good-sized herds which ambush, and then a meaty army of bestigor and ogre-class models that are deployed as normal.

Festus
12-08-2006, 13:55
Hi

Special characters are good, heartily agreed.

But good enough to really shine in an evironment that overflows with SAD, Royal Airforc, absolutely optimized lists and each cheesy combination of abilities, stats and items you can dream of?

Hardly. :)

Greetings
Festus