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View Full Version : Ogryns.....dying?



yohanes13
12-08-2006, 14:59
i love imperial guard ogryns i love the fluff the models and the contrast they make with my horde of guardsmen but gw seem to be killing them, they just cant survive in the new power armoured 40k where 70% of armies are marines of some sort i mean toughness 3 and 5+ saves is crap for supposedly our main counter assault units (rough riders aside who are actually quite good in this version of the codex), now amitadly the high strentgh attacks are cool and can sweep there way through guardsmen and hormagaunts but in the end there to easy to neautralise, you can only afford small and/or few units and enemies identify them and insta kill them early with the plethora of st8 weapons around, this might sound like a anti marine rant but its not i dont mind marines,but at least most armies have a combat squad that can handle them(i know rr can but there also t3 5+ save and one hit onders). i guess im generally unhappy a the quality of ig combat troops i know there not a combat army but the two units we have should be reasonable, what i want to know is, does anyone agree? am i talking out of my ****? are ogryns being killed off and written out of the ig? anyone?



10 marines = 150
6 ogryns =150

rapid fire bolters kill 2-3 (on average) we charge in thinking were gonna get some payback so we launch out 10 -12 attacks 5-6 hit 4 wounds whoops only kill 1-2 were ****ed ogryns get bogged down and die out only taking maybe 5-6 marines with them barely half the points cost, WTF our main assault unit cant even stand up to a bloody tactcal squad not to mention the ripper guns do sod all anyway enough ranting, let me know what you think.

Gen.Steiner
12-08-2006, 15:02
No, they're not dying.

They - like any other unit in the Imperial Guard - have to be used wisely and in concert with others. Having problems fighting ten Marines? Don't - fight five, or even less. Try using them in an assault alongside Stormtroopers or Hardened Veterans (or even infantry with Hardened Fighters, or Sentinels). Use the speed of their Chimera to keep up with (and the bulk of the Chimera to protect) the Rough Riders, and then hit a unit with Hunting Lances and Ogryns.

MEQs are a pain, but hit 'em enough and they will die. I promise. :D

Zzarchov
12-08-2006, 16:48
personally I think ogres need heavy CCW's

BodhiTree
12-08-2006, 16:53
I dunno, they seem like a great unit to tie mean things up with with all of their wounds. It's harder to do that with most guardsmen, as they can fold up like linen.

Col.Gravis
12-08-2006, 16:57
Ogryns are not up to taking out heavily armoured troops (thats the job of Roughriders with Hunting Lances), Ogryns are far better at dealing with light armoured stuff, Dark Eldar, other Guard, Orks etc. If you use the wrong unit for the wrong job they will of course not often make their points back.

Ravenous
12-08-2006, 16:58
it could be worse he could have only 8 marines with a vet sgt with a power fist and kill half the Ogryn by himself

jimbobodoll
12-08-2006, 17:10
it could be worse he could have only 8 marines with a vet sgt with a power fist and kill half the Ogryn by himself

Always the optimist eh? Do reassure the nice chap! ;)

McGonigle
12-08-2006, 18:16
Is there a new Guard Codex out? Since my version has them as T4.

Outlaw289
12-08-2006, 18:22
Is there a new Guard Codex out? Since my version has them as T4.

I always thought they were tougness 4 and S5(6)

yohanes13
12-08-2006, 19:05
1) i know thell die eventually but you can fit a lot of marines in 1500pts and you cant do mega 400pt combination charges on all of them.
2)in a doctrine army (which makes the game much more fun) having rough riders and ogryns puts a huge strain on other doctrines.
3)there too overeliant on there chimera making them useless in a light infantry army like mine.
4)good point with the power fist, imagine terminators ouch.
5)last but not leeast gw keep trying to convince guard players not to be overeliant on heavy weapons not to mention the moans i get every time i set up my army (waah how did you get 8 heavy bolters in one army waah moan waah my eldar dont stand a chance waah) its very annoying but we dont have a choice are cc units arnt up to scratch admitadly a command with commisar and priest can kick butt, howeve they come with a points cost to match and only have 4 guardsmen backing them up,

ps why cant command platoons be 4-9 guardsmen higly overpowered and gives more options(of course limiting heavy and special weapons options a bit.)

Maguni
12-08-2006, 19:16
ps why cant command platoons be 4-9 guardsmen higly overpowered and gives more options(of course limiting heavy and special weapons options a bit.)

Because then we'd have to find something else to complain about. :p

If you're having problems with meqs, get yourself a bunch of plasma guns and a medic in your command squads.

RampagingRavener
12-08-2006, 19:25
The Gaurd player round here uses Ogryns. And I hate them. Hate hate hate. Not in an "OMG teh cheeezee!" way, you understand. But in a "Hmm. Lets be careful around those things" way. Since I play mostly fast, light infantry armies like Tyranids and Dark Eldar, they tend to struggle against the multiwound, st5, T4 Ogryns. I've got less-than-fond memories of a large squad of them smacking their way through almost 30 assorted gaunts and a couple of raveners, and only being able to kill them off by waiting until they'd had their fun and then blasting at them with pretty much every ranged bio-weapon I had at my disposal.

They fill an irritating niche where they're dangerous as to warrent getting fired at, but can soak up a suprising amount of small arms fire and its a tough descision to fire a Venom Cannon or a Darklance that could be better spent killing tanks.

I think they're more of a countercharge unit, that you can keep lurking around the backfeilds to try and see off any enemy units that break through your lines, really.

yohanes13
12-08-2006, 19:25
i hate having to overly on p.guns and key my army to fight marines that when i face something else im *********.

NakedFisherman
12-08-2006, 19:52
Are and our -- two separate words.

BrainFireBob
12-08-2006, 19:54
Add a commisar with powerfist.

Beyond that, I play Marines, and I can tell you, I hate me Ogryns.

You pay 150 points for a squad, I pay 150 points for a squad- if I don't buy them anything.

I normally pay between 230-260 points for each squad (including "protect me from their heavies" transports), only my tanks/speeders are cheaper.

Sure, I'll always win against Ogryns, and wipe them out. After three, four rounds of combat, and I'll take casualties in return (realize, I'm always shot up before I hit the buggers).

That's at least two turns I can't DO anything with that squad. My Force Org choices AND my scoring units are the same. For Guard- and this is one of their major advantages- this is NOT the case. Multiple squads per force org chart means I can't AFFORD to have my squads tied up by #$@% Ogryns. They're a tactical unit, to be used in support of the rest of the list. Think of them as a guaranteed pin that does bonus damage against MEQs- meaning they effectively have traded up points- whereas against Gaunts or Boyz they can just rip through squads.

Shaper Shakra
12-08-2006, 20:02
Attack scouts instead. The Ogryn's can usually take them out with minor casualties. (assuming there isn't a powerfist :eek:)

Chem-Dog
12-08-2006, 20:47
It's another case of Horses for Courses, Marines are Elite they are supposed to be good at wiping stuff out Ogry, on the other hade are Elite for Guard, they aren't supposed to be excellent Marine killers, it's just a sad fact that you're going up against lots of Marine Armies and this is going to mean that a large percentage of the time your Ogryn are going to be struggling.

If I were to make any changes to Ogryn I'd consider the following (not saying all of them but one of or a combination of several)
Make Ripper Guns Rending, the original fluff on the Ripper had it firing off so much shot that it was litterally impossible to miss at close range, if not rending I would seriously consider giving it a better ROF.
If the Ripper Gun is such a hefty piece of kit, how about giving it the Massive CCW tag, reducing saves to a 4+ would address the marine problem directly (this was the reason the rule was invented, after all) without overly penalising weaker units. It's not my favourite rule by a long chalk but it does deal with the problem at hand.
Give Ogryn units the chance to be upgraded to Carapace Armour as a squad option, the justification for flak is that it's cheap to manufacture in bulk to equip the IG armies, Ogryns are a small group of specialist troops in any Imperial Guard army, only the most ecclesiarchial commander would ignore the value of equipping shock troops with better armour.
Bring back the option to have a Commissar accompany an Ogryn squad, Ogryn Commissars would inspire the Ogryn to great feats, making them feel no pain and/or Fearless while he's alive could make them work better.

Captain Optimus Metallus
12-08-2006, 21:01
Nah, I think Ogryns are fine as is. I know I'll be getting the maximum allowable unit size when I start collecting my Imperial Guard. Hell, I'll probably buy the Ogryns before any actual Guardsmen. I just want those figures, already.

Hlokk
13-08-2006, 16:13
I like ogryns, I have a squad of 5. The trick is not to think of them as the IG equivalent of howling banshees, marine assault terminators or incubi, ie: Their not an uber assault squad, they have to be used in conjunction with other units.

For example, I refuse to use them in a chimera. The reason being, aside from my refusal to pay 20 for a transport, that I know there will always be that propensity to say screw it and bomb them forward unsupported into the nearest enemy squad.

What I do use them for is hanging back behind an infantry platoon, then using them for counter assault. Lets say a squad of guardsmen gets assaulted by a big nasty assault unit, I charge these guys in during my next assault phase, my reasoning being that the IG unit will have already weakened the unit they are fighting slightly, and I can pretty much guarentee the bonus +1A for assaulting, whereas, were they out in the open, you couldnt always make sure that was the case.

cailus
14-08-2006, 01:54
I once played my Orks against Guard. By turn 3 the entire Ork army was dead with a total of 3 dead Guardsmen.

The lone survivor was my warboss. Having his boyz vaporised in three turns of heavy bolter, lasgun and heavy stubber fire slightly peeved off so he slaughtered a further 17 Guardsmen and destroyed a Chimera.

hellfire
14-08-2006, 02:40
how does that have anything to do with ogryns cailus?
on a semi-related question why does one ogryn have horns

onnotangu
14-08-2006, 02:58
how does that have anything to do with ogryns cailus?
on a semi-related question why does one ogryn have horns

Because he killed off something big and nasty with those horns and took it as a trophy?

Honestly I can't see a reason to take Orgyns in my Catachan army even though we get them.

Maxis Lithium
14-08-2006, 03:02
Ogryan are a nice, hard uint in my opinion. 3 T4 wounds per model, Assult 2 ripper guns AND 2 S6 base attacks (3 on the charge.) make for a nasty toy. I find that they work well in CoD or other dense fighting environments where they can keep LOS of them until they're in charge range.

When I use an Inquisitor in my list (Which I foten do to take either assasins OR demon hosts) I usually stick him with the squad. Usually he's with a power fist, so he's got some substantal hitting power, and the squad covers him nicely.

I find the squad useful against high toughness targets, like Plauge mariens or even winged hive tyrants. (Who can only take +3 saves and have T6)

Ogryn are NOT the BEST assult unit in the game, but they are unique, which makes them very very effective.

Outlaw289
14-08-2006, 03:28
I once played my Orks against Guard. By turn 3 the entire Ork army was dead with a total of 3 dead Guardsmen.

The lone survivor was my warboss. Having his boyz vaporised in three turns of heavy bolter, lasgun and heavy stubber fire slightly peeved off so he slaughtered a further 17 Guardsmen and destroyed a Chimera.

Um okay.

Were any Ogryns involved in this?



Chem-Dog, by Ogryn Commissars, do you mean Ogryns charged with being Commissars, or Commissars in charge of a unit of Ogryns? I find the first option being somewhat comical yet I want it! :D

Chem-Dog
14-08-2006, 04:48
Chem-Dog, by Ogryn Commissars, do you mean Ogryns charged with being Commissars, or Commissars in charge of a unit of Ogryns? I find the first option being somewhat comical yet I want it! :D

Back in the olden days when Imperial Guard officers could ride Jetbikes there were Ogryn Commissars, Commissars who were dedicated to keeping Ogyns on the straight and narrow, he would accompany them on their duties and inspire them (Usually by telling them the Emperor want them to do whatever it is the Commissar wants them to do) and as much as it sounds fun an Ogryn as Commissar sounds a little bit beyond a BoneHead.

Malempo
14-08-2006, 04:54
Ogryn are fine in an environnement without hidden power fists which indeed is very rare. Simply don't take them if you are going against MEQ so keep them out of tournament list.

TaintedSpam
14-08-2006, 05:33
When I use an Inquisitor in my list (Which I foten do to take either assasins OR demon hosts) I usually stick him with the squad. Usually he's with a power fist...

This is a great idea! I'm starting a MechIG force and was toying with Ogryns, Vets, or DH Termies in going from 1500 to 1850. I simply like the idea of an Inquistor with an Ogryn bodyguard. It sounds fun and uncommon. It's just too easy to take Terminator support.

IG88
14-08-2006, 06:33
Multiple squads per force org chart means [Space Marines] can't AFFORD to have my squads tied up by #$@% Ogryns. They're a tactical unit, to be used in support of the rest of the list.

That's so true. Ogryns are one of the awesome units that work best if you play them towards the fluff. That is to say, send the big dumb lugs in to combat to tie up a squad or two for a while so that no real humans get injured. By losing your emotional attachment to keeping the Ogryns actually alive and instead using them to pound some Space Marines for a few turns to keep their bolters and combat knives pointed away from your other units (say, your heavy weapon squads which are doing the real killing), then you'll do all right.

cailus
14-08-2006, 07:08
how does that have anything to do with ogryns cailus?


It doesn't at all. I just wanted to retell that tale.

GodofWarTx
14-08-2006, 07:39
In the first posters battle situation he neglected to factor in the ripper guns shooting as well.

I cant see what the problem is with a big ass unit of meaty thugs that not only get totally sweet ripper guns, but also wound marines on anything but a 1. They take a HUUUUUUGE bite out of the advantages of plague marines versus guard as well. Use them as lurking counter-assault units with fire support to whittle down your opponent.

Oh, thats right. If its not strength a-million and ignores armor its worthless :rolleyes: