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McMullet
13-08-2006, 00:51
With the news that SoC will be banned from the UK GT, I was wondering what people thought about this decision and of the list in general. I've never actually faced any of them, though I rather fancy a Middenland army.

It seems like there is some variation in how balanced the list are - for example, the Sea Guard list special rule allowing the entire army to shoot before the game starts is rather silly, whereas Cult of Slaanesh seems fairly sensible, as it's just a combination of elements from two lists.

As such, I put it to you, the great and good of WarSeer: Which of the Summer of Chaos army lists do you consider to be acceptable for use in normal games particularly, pickup games in a store or club?

Poll on its way...

Shaitan
13-08-2006, 01:17
As I'm a Chaos player I voted for Cult of Slaanesh, Archaon's Horde and Daemonic Legion. These are the only known lists to me and I think they aren't overpowered.

DeathMasterSnikch
13-08-2006, 02:03
Can't see myself being too pleased if Archaon's horde turned up after his defeat. I've played Eshin and it doesn't seem too overpowered (especialy as now skirmishers can be march blocked).

TheWarSmith
13-08-2006, 02:52
The good

Cult of Slaanesh:
A beautiful blend of 2 armies with similar feels and playstyles, I think this army is fantastic. It's balanced and flavorful and a beauty to see on the table

Daemonic Legion:
The original intent of the Hordes/beast of chaos book was to have one book for mortal/beast/daemon. Daemon got lumped into mortals w/ hordes, leaving the daemons w/ a really ****** army just using HoC. They really need the additional units and rules presented in the SoC Daemonic Legion list.

Slayers:
All I can say is these are just cool.

the bad
Clan Eshin:
It's cool that this former appendix list got an official nod, but I just don't like the army. In order to play with the really good "under cover of darkness", players often take very NON ESHIN units, like globadiers. Simply not a huge fan of this army, but I'm not an eshin nut like a lot of people out there.

Errantry War:
It's ok, nothin' great. I'm not a huge fan of armies that limit the choices without giving HUGE rewards(yes I know S6 on most charges)

The UGLY:
Sylvanian Levy:
This army is JUST RUDE! The list feels great, but I think it is pretty overpowered. If it got toned down and altered, I'd be ok w/ it.

Archaon's horde:
WOW!! What a waste. free command? ooh, let me pretend to be impressed. This army simply makes chaos even more rigid and less flexible.

Tanith Ghost
13-08-2006, 04:35
As a skaven player, the Eshin list. Rat ninjas will swipe your cheese while you sleep.:p

I also built a small cult of slaanesh army to campaign with, and did fairly well against the lizardmen.

The slayer list seems daunting, until you realize it's all unbreakable. Meaning they won't run from combats they cannot win.

Never seen the Sylvania list, but I'd permit it to be used for the variety.

The only list I'd be worried about facing would be the sea patrol.
My usual skaven list boasts the numbers to laugh it off, but I still hold my breath til that first barrage is over.


The Archaon's horde list is defunct, along with Archaon's horde itself.
I dislike it because it reminds me of the list's special rule 'OMG i'm gavs favorite111111ZOMG!!!!!!'. Having to tolerate that spazz is bad enough without having to put up with his pet speecial character in pick-up games.
Especialy when said character earned himself a one way ticket to spawnsville.

McMullet
13-08-2006, 12:35
Clan Eshin:
It's cool that this former appendix list got an official nod, but I just don't like the army. In order to play with the really good "under cover of darkness", players often take very NON ESHIN units, like globadiers. Simply not a huge fan of this army, but I'm not an eshin nut like a lot of people out there.

Yeah, it's the under cover of darkness rule that I dislike about Eshin. The army as a whole seems fine, but that part seems a tad unfair against a generic list. I'd laugh and laugh at someone playing a pickup game against that with a gunline, but it just seems like a surprise that is too big and too nasty against most players.

I've no problem with surprises in general, and it'd be a fun thing to do in an arranged game, but it seems too random for normal games.

Mephistofeles
13-08-2006, 12:44
Having bought a whole Slaanesh Daemonic Legion Army just before the illegalization of the rules, I'm more then a bit pissed. Well, you can still play 'em, but they are NOT good.

I think all the lists which enable you to play completely different armies are cool with me. The slayers, Daemonic Legion and Slayers are all good, as is the Cult of Slaanesh. Archaons Horde, Grimgors 'ard boys and the Sylvania-thingie is NOT cool. The Sea Patrol I never really got...Not much difference.

Gorbad Ironclaw
13-08-2006, 13:02
Can't see myself being too pleased if Archaon's horde turned up after his defeat. I've played Eshin and it doesn't seem too overpowered (especialy as now skirmishers can be march blocked).


That can only be because your not trying then ;)

The 400 model horde army(tiny night runner units and loads of slaves), with Ld 10 and skitterleaping assassins to kill characters are rock hard. Is it abusive, well, thats in the eyes of the beholder. It does seem to be somewhat outside of what the army was designed to do.
It could become a common Skaven list, especially since weapon teams won't be as good as before.


Also, the night fight rule(if you do go for a skirmish army) doesn't work terribly well I think. Giving huge advantages based on knowing how far the enemy can see etc.



Anyway, most of the SoC lists are fine I think.

Sylvania, Cult of Pleasure, Middenheim and Archeons Horde are all fine.

The 'Ardboyz are fine too(underpowered if anything, unless your doing the lvl 4/Borgut thing), but it should be made obsolete with the new book.

Demon Legions are rock hard, but as long as you don't mix the gods to much, they are fine really.

Slayers(who should also be made obsolete IMO) and Sea Guards should never have made it into the book in the first place. The ultimate rock/paper/scissor lists, they are very poorly designed. Errantry Wars, why is that there too. I mean, it's a Bret list, pretty much like the main book, only potentially given a few more free bonuses.

lord_blackfang
13-08-2006, 13:25
Sea Patrol has been banned in Slovenia for at least a year now. Everything else is acceptable.

Mephistofeles
13-08-2006, 14:04
Why was that particular list banned?

DeathlessDraich
13-08-2006, 14:08
I've played with, or against, all the armies except Middenland. I've used all armies except Midd and Errantry which I've played against a few times.

They're all interesting but nearly all flawed.

1) Daemonic Legions - a) Theme and Fluff: The idea of an all daemon army is excellent. b) Strengths: Too strong overall. Small number of models needed c) Weaknesses: They are rather overused and far too popular. Variety is limited to mixing Marks.

2) Clan Eshin - a) Theme and Fluff: Another nice idea. Very well themed. A Skaven army which could dispense with shooting! b) Strengths: All skirmish, under Cover, Skitterleap + charge. c) Weaknesses: Dice dependent and Eshin Triads are too strong.

3) Grimgor 'Ardboyz: a) What is the underlying theme? Not properly differentiated from othe Orc armies b) Black Orcs as Core. Little Animosity c) Limited magic. Effigy is practically useless unless you get the Dice Rolls

4) Slayers: a) Nice Idea. All Special rules, new units etc seem to be in keeping with the slayer theme b) Great Special abilities for characters. Doomseekers are great and so is Look Out Snorri, Brotherhood and Wards of Grimnir.
c) Susceptible to heavy magic and shooting. Cannot be combined with new slayer rules. Rather Orange looking!

5) Cult of S: a) Incorporates Slaanesh and DE history smoothly. b) A T4 in an elven army! Devoted = Witch Elves + S Musk is a nice touch. c) No one would choose Chaos Knights or Spawns instead of RBT as rare. OR C Warriors. Dark Riders should not be Special.

6. Sylvania: a) Seems more like a variant of Carstein than a new army. Why should Skells and Zombies be armoured? b) Fast moving units as Core - Bats, Wolves (Scouts) which can be summoned. Great new magic Banner. Grave markers enhance the magic. Armoured Skellies and Zombies!! c) No Necromancers - this might make it too strong? No choice of Rare Units

7. Errantry: a) Hastily put together idea. Only one unit - Knights Errant are considered. b) Champion is a Grail Knight; Extra D6 pursue c)Complex Impetuous tests

8. Sea Patrol: a) The naval idea doesn't work. WH is essentially a land battle.
b) Master of the Mists - seemingly good c) Embellishments to the Mists rules in Chronicles, made it ineffective. High elves have even less choice of units. Other than the initial shooting there's nothing to look forward to. Who wants a Merwyrm??

Most of the armies suffer from a lack of choice or a lack of new choices.

Eshin, Sylvania, DL and COS can be viable alternatives but should be tweaked.

Grimgor and Sea Patrol should be scrapped.

lord_blackfang
13-08-2006, 14:13
Why was that particular list banned?

Because it's the one list everybody hated playing against.

TheWarSmith
13-08-2006, 15:30
Honestly, if they made everything illegal save for Daemonic Legion, I wouldn't cry over it. The other armies are nice and cool, but they're just addons and extras.

The daemonic legion was NECESSARY for people who had wanted to run all daemon armies. Using just hordes of chaos, it's very tough to make even half competitive daemonic armies(khorne's not that bad). It basically made the list that already existed playable. So I don't view it as a "new list", but a "revision" of sorts.

My 4 converted changebringers and my $60 heavy converted tzeentch and my stupid horde of about 60 horrors are crying right now. They have no use anymore.