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View Full Version : I've always wondered... why are armour saves last?



Twisted Ferret
14-08-2006, 18:49
It's never really made sense to me. :confused: I am referring to the fact that you only save after the wound has been made. As far as I am aware, armour prevents wounds; since when does it have magical healing powers? ("Aaargh! Me leg! No... wait... I have armour!" *pop* [leg magically reappears])

hellfire
14-08-2006, 18:54
probably to make troops more survivable you would lose for more men if you rolled armor saves before rolls to wound its the same kind of reason weapon ranges are so ridicoulissly short compared to real-world stuff

Outlaw289
14-08-2006, 19:01
probably to make troops more survivable you would lose for more men if you rolled armor saves before rolls to wound its the same kind of reason weapon ranges are so ridicoulissly short compared to real-world stuff

Why would you lose more men?

Roll to hit, roll to see how many shots got deflected by armor, then roll to see how many of the remaining shots are able to wound the enemy.

Say you hit 11 times, armor deflected six shots, then you make 5 rolls to wound. Seems reasonable enough to me

Kamin_Majere
14-08-2006, 19:23
Mostly its because it doesnt interupt the player thats making the hits/wounds.

Statically it works out the same no matter how you roll it, but this way it lets the player with priority keep it until they're done. Then the other player can do armor saves.

Its basically a convienence factor

BrainFireBob
14-08-2006, 19:30
You want a fluff reason?

Rolling to wound doesn't see how many wounds you have- it shows how many disabling shots you WOULD have (if there were no armor), then you check to see which ones the armor would save you from.

ie, I hit you in the chest hard enough to stave your ribs into your heart (ouch). You're wearing armor. Did the armor provide enough protection to prevent the hit from staving those ribs? I mean, yeah, helluva bruise, but that's not disabling so it doesn't appear in 40K gameplay.

RampagingRavener
14-08-2006, 19:32
I'm not sure, but I think it was read somewhere thats its a Psycological thing-if, after seeing your opponent hit and wound, you manage to pass a load of saves, it feels a lot more pleasing than to make some saves, then dispite making them more of your troops still get blown away without you being able to do anything about it. Might just be imagining it though.

NakedFisherman
14-08-2006, 19:34
Welcome to the commutative property of multiplication.

As has been said, it's simply to speed up the game. Do it the other way if you wish -- it doesn't matter.

Helicon_One
14-08-2006, 19:39
I'm not sure, but I think it was read somewhere thats its a Psycological thing-if, after seeing your opponent hit and wound, you manage to pass a load of saves, it feels a lot more pleasing than to make some saves, then dispite making them more of your troops still get blown away without you being able to do anything about it. Might just be imagining it though.
I seem to remember this too, something about the final fate of those troops being in the hands of the player controlling them, rather than the opponent. Plus its one less delay to hand over dice to the other player for the next roll, so the game goes a bit faster (yeah, I know its only two seconds to pass the dice over, but those all add up).

Tim

BrainFireBob
14-08-2006, 19:40
Granted, but I always liked how 40K had it set up because it feels realistic.

First, the attacker sees if they can hit the opponent, ideally over a vital. The opponent tries to block. So it's a WS vs WS roll.

So, the attacker hit the defender somewhere it would disable him/her- but did they manage to do it with enough force to actually disable them?

Then, the defender sees if their armor can absorb enough of the hit to prevent it crippling them.

GodofWarTx
14-08-2006, 19:59
I seem to remember this too, something about the final fate of those troops being in the hands of the player controlling them, rather than the opponent. Plus its one less delay to hand over dice to the other player for the next roll, so the game goes a bit faster (yeah, I know its only two seconds to pass the dice over, but those all add up).

Tim

thats how it has been discribed to me as why the system is in place.

RampagingRavener
14-08-2006, 20:03
Yea, thats it, the "Final Fate" thing. I knew I hadn't imagined it!

bob syko
14-08-2006, 20:13
They tried putting them first in play tests but the spirit of jesus popped up and said if they didn't change it he'd make them smell of poo.

UnRiggable
14-08-2006, 21:54
You it was in some WDs, I remember it was before 300(us) and thy say that its fun when the model controller decides the fate of the unit (hence "save")

Adept
15-08-2006, 03:51
It's never really made sense to me. :confused: I am referring to the fact that you only save after the wound has been made. As far as I am aware, armour prevents wounds; since when does it have magical healing powers? ("Aaargh! Me leg! No... wait... I have armour!" *pop* [leg magically reappears])

First you need to see if you hit.

Then you need to see if you hit hard enough.

Then you need to see if the armour withstands the hit.

It's not a case of 'This is a wound, but the armour made it go away' but a case of 'This will be a wound, if the armour doesn't hold.'

Sure, theres that whole 'fate in the hands of the owning player' thing as well. But the process is hardly counter-intuitive.

The Song of Spears
15-08-2006, 15:45
Adept is totally correct. Its just the the short wording of hit/wound/save give can be misinterpreted...

sliganian
15-08-2006, 16:08
I Plus its one less delay to hand over dice to the other player for the next roll, so the game goes a bit faster (yeah, I know its only two seconds to pass the dice over, but those all add up).

Tim

Whoawhoawhoa.

WHOA.

"HAND OVER the DICE?" :wtf:

You don't use your own dice?

You SHARE the dice with the foe?

Do gamers have no respect for the cubes these days?

Course, I've got dice older than most of the gamers here, so perhaps I am a bit too precious about them... :angel:

Goq Gar
15-08-2006, 16:15
Bu.... wha... *Whinge*

My entire perspective on life has been shifted! IM SO CONFUSED! :'(

I need a hug. x_x

IT ALL MAKES TOO MUCH SENSE! WARHAMMER 40k IS TOO INCOMPATIBLE FOR THINGS THAT MAKE SENSE! *The wh40k universe explodes. The Tau win. They just do*

cerealkiller195
15-08-2006, 18:03
teh best way to do it would be the way VOR handeled it. Make saves any that you fail your opponent now can see if he could wound you.