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View Full Version : Do you think we will ever see "pre-painted" GW figs?



shakespear
14-08-2006, 19:26
Believe it or not, many, MANY people LOTHE the painting aspect of the "hobby"

How great would it be, to buy an army and play it the same day.

I remember I bought a huge Tau army the day they came out, it was a YEAR before they hit the table.

Not to mention many people dont have the time or skill to paint. (I contract out)

They could even be painted "so-so quality" like most of the collectable games.

Costwise, other companies are able to keep costs down, and they arent any bigger than GW.

Look at Mcfarlane Toys, you can purchase a spawn figure, painted, 9 inches tall, with 14 points of articulation, for $15 or a unpainted Grey knight that need to be cleaned, mold lines filed, and could be missing parts for the same price.

GW would have to get costs under control but I think they would really outsell the unpainted stuff.

BrainFireBob
14-08-2006, 19:38
Ultimately, I think it would kill the hobby.

Since there's no commitment to painting/building, there isn't identification/that "personal touch" to make someone really bond with their army.

So, people would play, fun game, then move on to other things.

EDIT: It WOULD kill the hobby. It would become just a game.

Some guy (UK)
14-08-2006, 19:55
To be honest, there is an attitude carried by some that the Wargamming hobby is just, well, gamming, and if painted armies were sold, this would only be made worse.

Later, Some Guy

Luke
14-08-2006, 19:56
Depends how much bang I was getting for my buck. Though to be fair the models are overpriced as it is, just imagine how much they would charge for a few layers of paint. And just consider the quality... nah. I wouldnt put money on this happening by any stretch of the imagination.

And yes, it probably would kill GW. (Not the "hobby", GW is not the be-all and end-all of wargaming BrainFireBob)

Ohman
14-08-2006, 20:05
GW is likely to keep looking at different things to expand the company and reach new groups of customers. It's not completly unthinkable that they will someday have a go at making prepainted miniatures.

The company we know today will definatly not release anything prepainted. But who knows what will happen in the future?

shakespear
14-08-2006, 20:06
I just dont see it, I see nobody leaving "the hobby" and TONS more people playing. GW could really rule the world...


Its not a hobby to me, its a game, just like the others I play.

ThousandPlateaus
14-08-2006, 20:24
It'd be a bad move - if you got a Chapel of Sanctuary you can see the standards of mass-painted GW product, and it's not good...
Also, have you ever bought something second hand and thought, 'yeah, the basecoat's o.k, I'll just try and touch it up'? It's a nightmare trying to make that miniature 'your own' again - you just end up having to repaint the whole thing.
It would radically change the hobby, which is what GW produces, rather than simply just games - most new GW players leave after a year as they make the same mistake.

Morathi's Darkest Sin
14-08-2006, 20:40
It has worked for Wiz Kids, and you can quite happily 'finish' them off if you like. The Heroclix figures looked acceptable out of the packet, but looked damn fine when brought up to my wife's painting standard.

I'd think sales could increase, but it would bloody hard to implement, Wiz Kids for example had all their stuff painted in China (I assume cast as well) and thats why I don't see GW doing it.

Although saying that they did do it with that Lord of the Rings hex style game, although I have no idea how thats doing?

The Winslow
14-08-2006, 20:42
Not going to happen. GW has always been pretty adamant about not wanting to go the pre painted route. It would kill GW gaming as we know it, and replace it with more prepainted clicky kiddie games.

If you don't like to paint, send the minis off to Sri Lanka or a similar cheap painting service, or make a deal with one of your buddies to paint your army.

The Winslow
14-08-2006, 20:44
Although saying that they did do it with that Lord of the Rings hex style game, although I have no idea how thats doing?

That was Sabertooth games, otherwise it never would have happened. It's currently dead in the water. Nothing new coming out, nothing available for re order, and no one is buying what is left. Dead, dead, dead.

swordwind
14-08-2006, 20:51
To be frank, the prepainted LotR stuff is dying on its ****.
They're selling off booster packs in The Works for £0.99 just to get rid of them.

I personally dont see the point of playing with miniatures unless your going to paint them yourself. If you have enough time to play a 2-3 hour game then you have enough time to paint aswell.

shakespear
14-08-2006, 21:46
The prepainted LOTR stuff is dying because they didnt promote it, not to mention the regular LOTR stuff doesnt sell close to what 40k/fantasy does. I have seen it for sale and didnt even know GW made it.

If they did something like, release a new codex, lets say Blood Angels, and then offered prepainted Tac squads...

World Domination...




I personally dont see the point of playing with miniatures unless your going to paint them yourself. If you have enough time to play a 2-3 hour game then you have enough time to paint aswell.

I would rather play than paint. I can game 1 night a week or I can spend 6-12 months painting an army, THEN play? no thanks..

Some guy (UK)
14-08-2006, 22:33
I would rather play than paint. I can game 1 night a week or I can spend 6-12 months painting an army, THEN play? no thanks..

But I'd rather do the opposite. Playing has a very low appeal to me- I'd much rather put the hours in converting and painting dozens of masterpieces, so for people like me it would be a waste of time making pre painted models.

I mean, what is it for the lowest standard needed in GW stores- 3 colours and basing. Come on, it doesn't take much to do that does it? Then as the weeks go by, start to finish them. Easy.

Later, Some Guy

The Winslow
15-08-2006, 01:19
If they did something like, release a new codex, lets say Blood Angels, and then offered prepainted Tac squads...

World Domination...

I would rather play than paint. I can game 1 night a week or I can spend 6-12 months painting an army, THEN play? no thanks..

Yeah, I can see you proudly putting out your army of 6 prepainted squads of plastic toys, and the rest of your army still being unpainted. What good would that do?

If you want a painted army, go buy the models, pay someone to paint them.

shakespear
15-08-2006, 02:06
Yeah, I can see you proudly putting out your army of 6 prepainted squads of plastic toys, and the rest of your army still being unpainted. What good would that do?

If you want a painted army, go buy the models, pay someone to paint them.

Whats the differnce between painted toys and prepainted toys? They are still toys.

Having a painted troop choice readily available would drive sales of a codex. They could even do a transport option too.

That cuts out about 50-80% of the painting right there.

I do pay people to paint. I enjoy winning best painted army at most tournys too. I am just saying it would expand the "hobby" and generate lots more of what GW loves most.....Money

The last Fantasy tourny I went to (didnt play) had 12 players and ONE panited army. Basecoat and grey plastic as far as the eye could see. Not to mention legs on bases...

I really think the majority of people dont like to paint or at the very least would prefer to play out of the box and maybe slowly put together a panted army.

Jedi152
15-08-2006, 07:50
I think it would change GW's audience, and bring in a lot younger crowd.

Also it would kill off any originality and and style in armies. In short, i would be among the first to leave the hobby if they went totally to pre-painted crap.

Gaebriel
15-08-2006, 08:18
Prepainted is okay, as long as you're having a low quality, cheap model that's prepainted (to a considerably basic standard) - see Mageknight. But as soon as I pay €10 for an average model, I want to have it a better finish as well.

Would be like a cheap car where I wouldn't bother the colour or an overly expensive car that I would want to be perfect.

NakedFisherman
15-08-2006, 08:22
Nope. Pre-painted stuff sucks.

You're in the wrong hobby (or actually, playing the wrong game).

Dr Death
15-08-2006, 09:17
Yes, pre-painted models really would be the death of the hobby for me. What would be the point? What makes the miniature cost as much as the action figure is the fact that it isnt painted, and it allows you to add your own interpretation to it and hone your own skills. Painting an army is a huge part of what the hobby is about and one of the cheif reasons GW havnt been overwhelmed by other "instant fun" entertainment sources like computer games and the like. Your limited view of the benefits of painting is based on the tournament scene which isnt the finest paragon of the virtues of the craft- Go to coolminiornot.com and tell me pre painted would be better than not:).

Painting for me is a wonderful thing to sit down and do. It's theraputic and rewards patience and perception both of the colours themselves and where they slot into the overall scheme. It's skills like that which are being increasingly forgotten by the speed of life today and so it is crucial that this bastion of patience remains. Look beyond their usage as simple playing peices and look at them as works of sculpting and art. Without painting what would be the point in sculpting the miniatures to the standard they are? What would be the point of using miniatures at all if the only appeal is in the game? It's the fundamental aspects of preparation which make this more than just some flimsey pick up and play matter and inspire a loyalty to the hobby (not just GW) far in excess of any "toy".

Dr Death

skuller
15-08-2006, 10:14
not happening again..... have to remember that the sabertoothgames release the Lord of the ring tradeable miniature game and after 3 years they drop the towel. they did manufactured and all painting outsdide the US. The miniatures per se were ok but they just stop the production even the latest release was limited produced. Dont see them again doing it, it was like spitting upwards and hoping it didnt hit you back in the face since they will be taking a chunk of own market.

BrainFireBob
15-08-2006, 10:20
GW isn't the only wargame- but it does have fairly self-contained hobby and hobby community. And it'd die with pre-painted minis.

simonr1978
15-08-2006, 13:21
I cannot see this happening directly as the cost of assembling and painting the miniatures would likely be prohibitive. I can't see it increasing sales either, things are pricey enough as it is (More than a few of us have long since reached the point where we can neither afford nor justify the cost of buying the miniatures), so adding on extra costs will likely damage sales more than it will help.

The thing with most collectable games is that AFAIK their miniatures are typically one or two piece castings, with pretty basic paint schemes. A plastic Marine probably has more separate parts per figure than many CMGs would have per army!

If you really don't have the time to spend painting then why not air-brush or use spray cans? A basic air-brush will set you back maybe £10 plus a can of air, then entire squads can be base coated in seconds. A few minutes per figure to pick out the basic details, then a few minutes more to flock the base and you have an acceptable squad, probably as good as you would get from a collectable game.

I can only see GW going down this route if they created a separate CMG, and to be honest I think (With no information to back this up I freely admit, this is just gut-instinct) that GW would see this as beneath them. They have built their business on "The Hobby" (Rightly or Wrongly), and for every person that would welcome such a move there will be someone who will regard it as selling out.

CMGs also suffer somewhat from QC issues, possibly the worst recently being WotC's Messerschpitt fiasco. Outsourcing to China is a potential minefield that GW would be wise to avoid if they wish to maintain their claim to be the best in the business.

shakespear
15-08-2006, 13:34
I think it would change GW's audience, and bring in a lot younger crowd.

Also it would kill off any originality and and style in armies. In short, i would be among the first to leave the hobby if they went totally to pre-painted crap.

1. Alot younger crowd is already taking over the hobby

2. There is very little originality and and style in armies now. Same cookie cutter lists.

How is prepainted armies any different than spraypainted ones?

Besides GW doesnt care about vets, only new players.

Jedi152
15-08-2006, 14:13
1. Alot younger crowd is already taking over the hobby
I thought the same until i realised that it was just me, getting older! :)
But GW is becoming more and more beginner friendly, and it is affecting the age of gamers...

2. There is very little originality and and style in armies now. Same cookie cutter lists.
This is due, in part, to the tactics sections of forums such as the one on which we are speaking. The internet seems to be the major factor in destroying originality.

The other factor is that people just want to win. So desparate to win they forget about quirky, fun, fluffy unit and overdose on las/plas squads, or ratling guns etc. People forget that the objective of the game is to have fun regardless of whether you win or lose.

Besides GW doesnt care about vets, only new players.
This is something GW really needs to address.

The Winslow
15-08-2006, 17:18
How is prepainted armies any different than spraypainted ones?

Pretty obvious, I'd think. Pre painted is something that is never going to happen, while spray painted is an option open to you now. It was suggested because of your comments on how you hate to paint. Yes, both methods don't give a very good paintjob, and while most people would never go the spraypaint route, it does give someone like you a way to get color on models with minimum effort. I'd also suggest using the BOM marines, since you only have two parts to glue together.

Anvilbrow
18-08-2006, 03:38
I personally dont see the point of playing with miniatures unless your going to paint them yourself. If you have enough time to play a 2-3 hour game then you have enough time to paint aswell.

While in theory I agree that minis should be painted by myself, this statement smacks of a gamer with a lot of time on his(or her) hands. I don't particularly enjoy painting, yet for tournaments such as the GTs and many RTTs I have painted well over 12K over the last eight years or so. However, on average after my career, wife, three kids, home and property, etc., etc., I have very little time left and must choose how to spend my one night a week or less; playing or painting. I'll play EVERY time unless I have a tournament to get ready for.

Many of us older gamers don't have the advantage of few responsibilities. There was a time for me (the 80s and early 90s) when I played four or five times a week and still had time to go see a couple of movies, go surfing, play soccer etc. Mortgages, spouse, career and kids change that.

So in response to your uneducated statement, no I do not have time to paint if I have time to play, I have time for one or the other and I choose playing.

As for prepainted minis, nah. Crap quality, high prices, lack of individuality and simple pride of workmanship of the individual gamers all spell doom for this ill-conceived idea. I'd sooner play with bare metal and do nearly every week! My opponents don't seem to mind since I never bring the same army twice, something I could not do if I insisted on playing with only painted miniatures.

Captain Rufus
18-08-2006, 04:05
Considering Heroclix, D&D Miniatures, Star Wars Miniatures, are all doing very well in the collectible miniatures front, and Heroscape sells insanely well at mass market retailers, it seems like Games Workshop's main threat is as much them as it is games like Warmachine, Flames of War, and Confrontation.

And they are doing so well most are getting multiple expansions or spinoff games this year.

The vast majority of miniatures play at my local shop that used to carry GW is Heroclix, with Warmachine/Hordes a close second, and a potential Star Wars group starting up soon.

Which is probably why I see GW and a decent amount of its fanbase trying to cling to the artistic aspects of the game as more important than the game itself.

Because it just doesn't stand up to the competition, 40K especially. (40K simply isn't a good game any more.)

20 dollar army books, 40-50 dollar rulebooks, 100-400 bucks for an army that requires hours and hours of work to be playable?

The collectible minis games can be played a few minutes out of the box and for much cheaper.

Hell, most of the CMGs give out free stuff in organized play. GW's tourneys charge big money just to play in em.

Im not saying CMGs have all the answer, because blind buy and retiring sets from play Magic CCG style sure as hell isn't good for anyone, but they definately do things different from GW.

And for a HUGE percentage of gamers and potential players, its enough to make them join in.

3 0f 6
18-08-2006, 08:22
pre-painted models are obviously desired by most of us at one point (when its 1am and you still have 40 models to paint for the game you are playing at 10am) but if we were to buy pre-painted models you know everyone would have THE exact same armies, so there would be even more ultramarines out there, the worst thing would be unless they were supplied unassembled and painted, al the pose would be identical... o and not to mention no oppotunity for conversion work.
I feel it would be better all round to have someone paint models for you if thats a part of the hobby/game you loathe. 3 years back after i had finished my space wolves 1500pt gt army, i continued my painting and managed to paint another 500pts in 2 more days! earlier on in the year i finished my new aditions to this years gt army, and i decidied i wanted to paint something so i unboxed my necrons... and omg, they look so much better with paint on...

7th
18-08-2006, 08:42
I seriously hope not or it will kill the hobby for me and I'll take my hard earned cash elsewhere :)

People moaning about having to have a painted army... you knew what you where getting into when you started playing right? that's akin to me taking up ice skating and moaning that it's a bit cold. the painting and modelling was what really drew me into the hobby as a kid.


1. Alot younger crowd is already taking over the hobby

the 'younger crowd' has always been around the hobby, what age did you get involved with GW at? I'm 26 now and look down with scorn and derision on them damned kids but I started at the age of 12. I think most people moaning about the amount of young people that GW tries to attract to the hobby are just getting a bit old :P


2. There is very little originality and and style in armies now. Same cookie cutter lists.

I've said this a few times to other people, get new opponents who aren't so keen on winning. I cannot stand las/plas squads..... and you know what? I'm a marine player! a 6 man tactical squad with a heavy weapon and a special weapon just strikes me as a bit weird. I can't get out of the habit with 5 man tactical squads with EITHER a heavy or special... I only play with tactical squads like that as a throwback to 2nd ed when you bought a 10 man tactical squad and could split it into combat squads of 5. I'm sure there's more out there like me... and besides, if everyone uses the same cookie cutter lists then surely everyone will know how to deal with them by now?

What better way to throw your opponent by turning up with an army list that doesn't conform to *any* of the norms associated with it?

The internet didn't kill originality, the people deciding to take those cookie cutter army lists killed it themselves.


How is prepainted armies any different than spraypainted ones?

Besides GW doesnt care about vets, only new players.

I got involved in the hobby for a number of reasons, one of them was the painting and modelling aspect. It appealed to my 12 year old mind as my dad is and always has been a big model airplane nut so it kinda rubbed off on me, I thought I too could spend hours and hours bent double over a single model with nothing but a cup of tea for company. Judging by the amount of kids who actually bother to paint their armies compared to older players, I'd say the kids enjoy painting more even if their paintjobs aren't the greatest in the world. It's those kids that'll stick with the hobby throughout their teenage years.


The other factor is that people just want to win. So desparate to win they forget about quirky, fun, fluffy unit and overdose on las/plas squads, or ratling guns etc. People forget that the objective of the game is to have fun regardless of whether you win or lose.

again, this is something I've noticed with myself, changing as I've gotten older, back when I started gaming it was all about winning and getting one over my friends. Nowadays it's more about just having a good time and drinking excessive amounts of tea whilst debating the meaning of life over a handful of dice.

in short, pre-painted would really kill it for me and I'd hope GW never take that route.

Bombot
18-08-2006, 09:00
Judging by the amount of kids who actually bother to paint their armies compared to older players, I'd say the kids enjoy painting more even if their paintjobs aren't the greatest in the world. It's those kids that'll stick with the hobby throughout their teenage years.

I started painting things before I ever bought a GW mini. Then I turned into a gamer who found painting a real drag. These days Iím a gamer who actually might get an army painted before using it!

Sureshot05
18-08-2006, 09:34
I pray they never do - it would make cookie cutter lists more prevalent, and it would kill so much of the hobby.

Learn to paint, you can paint a unit of 40 night goblins in day with ease, once yoc've done that three times, painting becomes a joy and I am now starting to paint faster than I buy (first time since I started!)

squiggoth
18-08-2006, 18:37
I do pay people to paint. I enjoy winning best painted army at most tournys too.

I would be ashamed if I won an award for something I didn't do.
You might as well award Best Painted Army awards for pre-painted Heroclix figures. :eyebrows:

*proud winner of several painting awards with self-painted figs*

Dwarf Supreme
18-08-2006, 19:26
I can understand the appeal of pre-painted armies, especially for a newbie, but it's not for me. Even though painting, especially Epic infantry, can be a drag, I do get a great deal of satisfaction of painting everything myself. Even though I have more time to paint than play, I prefer playing.

Pre-painted minis sure would kill stifle creativity. Sure my Epic Marines are Ultramarines, but I can gaurantee my army looks sufficiently different from another's Ultramarine army. I really don't see GW ever going down that path, since GW is now a minis company that sells games, rather than a game company that sells minis.

Zzarchov
18-08-2006, 19:40
This will happen, it was destined too the moment GW became a PLC.

Pre-Painted mini's (toys) would have a larger appeal and thus sell better (for a few years, then the line would be cut off the factories and stores sold or tooling out the next fad) generating more money for the shareholder (who doesn't care if GW starts making plaid couches as long as it makes money)

This will probably happen around the time WizKids/wizards of the coast buys up GW.

The Winslow
19-08-2006, 02:36
This will probably happen around the time WizKids/wizards of the coast buys up GW.

Except that someone has already bought out both WK and Wotc.) But I still agree with the thought, because I just don't see GW getting bought up, and if that stalls forever the abortion that pre painted plastick warhammerclicks would be, thats fine by me.

johhny-turbo
20-08-2006, 17:44
If you dont wanna paint to play then dont, most GW shops let you play with primed but un-painted as long as there's progress being made during Veteran's Night. While clubs may be different I dont know of any RT shops that make you paint except for tournaments.

idinos
20-08-2006, 18:18
Some clubs don't even care if there is no progress at all actually.

RevEv
23-08-2006, 09:14
No Thanks.

Nothing floats my boat more than looking at my army (and my wife's if I'm playing her) and thinking 'I painted those, they're unique'. I get pleasure from just looking at what I have done - even when they're just in the display case.

Prepainted models would only be put away in the back of the cupboard and forgotten.

FalcesImperatoris
24-08-2006, 11:22
I do pay people to paint. I enjoy winning best painted army at most tournys too.

You know its a bit dishonest to claim the best painted army award when you didn't paint the army yourself.

The award should always go to a player who has put the time and effort into making their own army.

Sureshot05
24-08-2006, 12:13
Even though painting, especially Epic infantry, can be a drag, I do get a great deal of satisfaction of painting everything myself.
.

ESPECIALLY epic infantry.

"Thank god, i've painted up three squads, thats... 15 pts"
:P

But Epic does look the most beautiful when a full army hit the table top.

Eidolon
24-08-2006, 15:40
I think that Dr Death summed it up very eloquently.
But, for those of you that are only interested in gaming, what's the big fuss? Just play with unpainted models (most people do). Failing that, you can take a look at Rackham's upcoming game AT43, complete with pre- painted minis. If you are in it just for the gaming, 40k is not that much of a ruleset, really. You might as well drop it.

Zzarchov
24-08-2006, 16:07
I think your all missing the point...

Its not what us as niche market gamers want, 100% of existing gamers could be opposed to the idea and it still might make good sense to do it. What matters is how many lil tweenies who don't play can scream "Mommy I want it" loud enough to ring in more sales than existing customers do all togethor.
Perhaps switch from Miniatures to Miniatures/Posable action figures

Though it would be cool to see Typhus with Kung-Fu Grip.

citizenkade
24-08-2006, 16:09
This is the whole reason I don't play tonrneys... I spend 2-3 hours on EACH model in my army! More on command! The hobby is painting and modelling to me, then gaming. I HATE clix games... they're cool looking, but I spent over $300 trying to get a Golden Age Flash figure! That's a lot of goon figures! Let's also look at what happens to the jobs of these guys that work in the mini plants for GW... If GW puts out pre-paints they would have to send them out to China and not keep the jobs local. GW costs a bit more because they make their own figs.

Now, if GW put Epic out as pre-painted assembled minis like Mechwarrior, I'd be all over it! That's a game I could get in to, and the cost of a Titan would be low enough to make the game fun. 40k would lose so much to me if I didn't know what I was getting! My 10 year old got 6 Star Wars mini boosters for his birthday... He had ONE Jedi Knight in all of that! He was excited, but I looked at it like paying over 50 bucks for a poorly painted Yoda and some battle droids!

Kriegsherr
24-08-2006, 16:11
Ehm.... why don't just play while in the process of painting? I know a lot of stores don't permit this, but in a gaming group it shouldn't be a problem.

And you can amaze your buddies every month with a newly painted squad. They will be more than happy to play against you even if most of your army is unpainted.

I never understood why so much people make such a big fuss over unpainted minis. Its just a game! And if you don't like painting, just use them unpainted.... or undercoated.


What matters is how many lil tweenies who don't play can scream "Mommy I want it" loud enough to ring in more sales than existing customers do all togethor.


If you're a tween and still can your mommy to buy you something, then you are a lucky git. I am a Tween too and have to work for the stuff.
But I'm quite certain you meant TEENIES ;)


True, the "bash the money out of the kiddies mommy"-Trick seems to be what GW is implementing into all their bussiness strategies.
WizKidz is just way ahead. Ugly stuff they are doing! And they destroyed one of my favorite games I played when I was a kid.... and kiddified it. Ack. Actionfigure Mechs, I'm gonna puke. :)

Grimshawl
24-08-2006, 18:13
I sincerely hope GW never stoops so low as to have prepainted figs, knowing my luck that means they'll anounce it next week as their brilliant new scheme, I mean marketing ploy. Anyway prepainted minis is just not part of this hobby and I hope it never becomes part of it.

Little Geek
24-08-2006, 18:15
Ehm.... why don't just play while in the process of painting? I know a lot of stores don't permit this, but in a gaming group it shouldn't be a problem.

And you can amaze your buddies every month with a newly painted squad. They will be more than happy to play against you even if most of your army is unpainted.


This is what i do, we play with half built/painted models all the time,but its nice to play with a fully painted army.

At my GW store they ask for fully built models and prefer them to be undercoated

Crazy Harborc
25-08-2006, 00:46
GW's store here, does the same.........almost. A couple of the current campaigners have um, "incomplete items" in their army. Hey, they are making weekly progress. THAT is required by the store.

Master Jeridian
26-08-2006, 02:46
Quite aside from the fact GW would have to have machines/people paint and assemble (or design a whole new set of one-piece models) this new range- with this cost carrying over to the customer.

What of DIY? Whether it be my Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Tyranids, Sisters of Battle- I've never chosen an 'official' Chapter, regiment, swarm, Order, or 'official' colour scheme of said units. I don't know, maybe it's an independent streak but GW already tells me a large chunk of the background, all of the rules- I'll be damned if I lack an imagination to even design my own army.
This will die with pre-painted. To the point where everyone will have the same army, with the same painting standard and colours, probably in the same poses.

I'd be ashamed to put pre-painted models down against someone who has spent hours painting a decent army, and I would feel slightly peeved if I had to fight against a pre-painted army for the lack of effort needed.

Painting is the last barrier on the Tournament scene too.

Have to think about your background? Nah, GT's removed it.
Have to think of an army list to take? Nah, just copy a list from the internet.
Have to paint said army? Nah, pre-painted.

Petty or not we gamers also cling to a belief that we are wargaming- the noble art of fighting a battle with lovingly built and painted miniatures. To everyone else they're toy soldiers- and being pre-painted, pre-assembled, that's all they will be.

Not to say GW won't do this. The BoM SM's are examples of GW caving in to this attitude of 'I want it now, and I'm not prepared to make the effort to achieve it'.

It would kill my hobby, but GW would continue albeit cheapened by it.

Hobbes
26-08-2006, 10:13
I think there are several sides to this.
My perspective is that not selling pre painted figs keeps a whole lot of people from buying games and figs - and playing.
I, and my friends like me, all have jobs and are, despite being gamers, happy if we manage to spend 4 hours every second week playing games.

GW games we play include SpaceHulk, BFG, BloodBowl and Necromunda. We play a lot of other board games/strategy games/etc as well, but the point is that there is no time for assembling/painting/bonding-with-my-army type of activities.

If GW wants to keep everyone who doesn't want to spend weeks painting out of their business, then sure. I think it is a shame, and that GW would have a world of new customers if they could handle pre painted figs without upsetting current customers.

Cheers, Hobbes

Rabid Bunny 666
26-08-2006, 10:34
No way dude, i enjoy painting minis

@Shakespear: I hope yuo didn't take credit for them.

Me and my Mate, Josh, won best painted army at the Devourer Tournament last year, fair doos it was small, but the buzz i got knowing that my painting won something was nice, and getting soemone else to paint your figures seems like a gyp to me.

I used to do a little bit of work for a kid at Slough (i was about 14 then) and didn't enjoy it one bit, knowing that i wasn't able to use them in a game after pouring hours into them. Selling minis also does this, both my Deathguard and BT armies got sold (still haven't been payed for either :rolleyes:) and it was lame because every Deathguard had been converted, and i remember Sculpting robes for all my BTs.

Pre Painted minis would kill the hobby for me, doesn't anyone get a warm feeling when you finish that 10 man Tactical Marine squd you've spent 3 days on?

generulpoleaxe
26-08-2006, 12:13
(a lot of people use painting services as they do not have the time themselves to paint. it's there choice, leave them alone.)

gw makes too much money from it's subsiduary products to go down the route of prepainted minis. somebody wants to paint there minis, then that's paint+brushes+glue+flock+tools. there is quite a lot of money to be made on those items.
why do you think staff are told (read ordered) to ask you if you nead any of those items.

Gaebriel
26-08-2006, 12:45
... why do you think staff are told (read ordered) to ask you if you nead any of those items.
I always thought that's because they don't sell :p

As you can get better stuff possibly a hundred meters away for a tenth of the cost...

But maybe I'm just naive?

Crazy Harborc
26-08-2006, 20:11
I have been painting armies for a very long time. It was a problem finding the time to prepare the minies so they could be used. I guess that's one of the reasons wargaming is a lifetime hobby for some of us. We need a lifetime to be able to get it done.

Zzarchov
26-08-2006, 21:46
If you're a tween and still can your mommy to buy you something, then you are a lucky git. I am a Tween too and have to work for the stuff.
But I'm quite certain you meant TEENIES ;)


Teenies are 13-19

Tweenies does not refer to those in their Twenties (aka Twenty Somethings/Adults) but to "Pre Teens" aka a mashing of Twelve (Twe) and Teenager (een) for Tween.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tween


So no, I did mean Tweenies.

t-tauri
26-08-2006, 21:58
Rackham are bringing out an SF game with pre-painted minis called AT-43. If it's a success then I think GW could test the market. I'm sure they'll be watching how well it sells with interest.

I don't think they'll do it simply because of their investment in kits and casting of minis which don't lend themselves to pre-painting. Remember they've done it with the LotR clicky game from Saabertooth, though.

shakespear
29-08-2006, 00:27
Well, Mongoose has upped the ante

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=20621

Crazy Harborc
29-08-2006, 02:41
:evilgrin: ........AND NOW.......phase two of the plan is going to be happening VERY soon. In the not too distant future, GW will be looking over their shoulder at a new star gaining on them.

shakespear
29-08-2006, 02:44
Its perfect, an army to play out of the box. Good quality all around. You can paint over it or just buy the old unpainted/unassembled stuff if you want.

That moderns game will sell well.

SST is much better rule system than 40k anywho..

Osbad
29-08-2006, 12:02
Mongoose and Rackham both seem to see it as the future. And to be frank the results they seem to be getting in the pre-release photos are well worth it.

I could see this being a real winner for them.

Personally I prefer the painting/assembly of models to actually game play, but if the price was right and the quality acceptable I'd shell out for an introductory pack. To be honest I could seriously see myself buying into SST next time around, and certainly their "near future" game which is a milieu I'm more interested in.

Odin
29-08-2006, 12:08
I have to admit, I'd be very tempted to get a few pre-painted GW armies. I have been collecting Chaos for 15 years and still haven't quite finished a whole unit.

IJW
29-08-2006, 12:09
For horde armies like Skaven and Gobbos it would be quite handy.

Gaebriel
30-08-2006, 04:34
Let's just wait until GW's current bussines plan implodes, and the shareholders yet want more money, so they expand into the more mainstream market... :rolleyes:

As long as they don't stop selling unassembled models, I could ignore that 'new wave'...

But I'm an avid all-metal-models-fan anyway...

Grimshawl
30-08-2006, 13:12
Although I still dont favor prepainted mini's I do think Mongoose is proceeding in a good direction for them, especially offering full support of their older players as they move forward, if they can pull that off they will have far outstriped their competitors in customer service.

Sai-Lauren
30-08-2006, 15:50
(a lot of people use painting services as they do not have the time themselves to paint. it's there choice, leave them alone.)

gw makes too much money from it's subsiduary products to go down the route of prepainted minis. somebody wants to paint there minis, then that's paint+brushes+glue+flock+tools. there is quite a lot of money to be made on those items.
why do you think staff are told (read ordered) to ask you if you nead any of those items.

Because people complained that they got home and it wasn't all built and pre-painted for them? After all, it's just a toy store, isn't it? ;)

I just wish they'd stop asking the question every other week when I pick something up :rolleyes: (especially as I'm moving to Tamiya acrylics for the main colours I use in bulk and Cote D'Arms for everything else :angel: ), although as the girl in the local GW mentioned at the weekend, even the staff forget the glue sometimes.

But agreed, didn't someone say a while back that GW's top selling line was Chaos Black?

My personal feeling is - they're my figures. The time I spend building and painting them makes them valuable to me, no matter that I'm nowhere near the worlds greatest artist - whoever said it earlier is right, pre-painted figures would just wind up at the back of the wardrobe, untouched.

My oldest sig on here said "If it was easy, anyone could do it."
That's what pre-painting would do - with pre-painting it's easy, anyone could have their army. But would it be worth it, when the game finally completes its descent into being nothing more than a wallet-waving contest?

You enjoy playing more than painting and have the mighty Silver Pewter and Grey HDPE legion, fine, that's your preference. You want someone else to paint your figures for you, it's your money, do what you want with it.
I'll go up against you - and if you're enjoyable to play against, I'll give you a return match some time.

But commercially available pre-paints from GW themselves? No thanks. It's a wargame, not a toy exhibition.

(Actually, on that note, wouldn't pre-paints shift them from Miniatures to Toys, which would likely bring whole new legal requirements?)

shakespear
30-08-2006, 17:44
I think the average person on the street would call them toys it they saw them. The juvenile rule system doesnt help either.

It will bring a MASSIVE amount of people into the hobby, though GW would probably charge double the price of a regular box.

Mongoose has a good idea, with continuing to produce the unpainted stuff alongside the new stuff.

Other than that, if Jonny Newgamer is faced with the choice of spending $500 on a rulebook, codex, army and painting supplies or prepainted figs with the rules in the box, totaling $100 What is he going to choose?

Painting alienates some people, PRICE alienates ALOT of people.

Odin
30-08-2006, 18:39
You enjoy playing more than painting and have the mighty Silver Pewter and Grey HDPE legion, fine, that's your preference. You want someone else to paint your figures for you, it's your money, do what you want with it.
I'll go up against you - and if you're enjoyable to play against, I'll give you a return match some time.

But the thing is, I'm sick of having an army of grey plastic and pewter models. I'm in the hobby primarily for the gaming. I don't like modelling very much, and I don't like painting very much. And I can assure you if GW did release pre-painted models they wouldn't sit in the back of my wardrobe, they'd be used until the paint had worn off.

BrainFireBob
30-08-2006, 18:50
Odin: Why not pay someone who enjoys painting more than playing to paint your minis? if you don't want a painting service for expense, that's your best option. Everyone should know someone who'd do it on the cheap.

shakespear
30-08-2006, 18:57
Odin: Why not pay someone who enjoys painting more than playing to paint your minis? if you don't want a painting service for expense, that's your best option. Everyone should know someone who'd do it on the cheap.

From someone who has been doing it for years, let me say:

Dont use people from your local club, it creates awkward situations.

People on the net that do it for a living are more reliable.

Sai-Lauren
31-08-2006, 09:02
But the thing is, I'm sick of having an army of grey plastic and pewter models. I'm in the hobby primarily for the gaming. I don't like modelling very much, and I don't like painting very much. And I can assure you if GW did release pre-painted models they wouldn't sit in the back of my wardrobe, they'd be used until the paint had worn off.

I can see your issue.

Personally, I've had days where I really just couldn't sit at my desk and paint anything. I've also had days where I couldn't leave it if I wanted to. :D

I think the problem is, you see it as a chore, something you feel you have to do before you can do what you want to do. A few years back, I painted a guard army in about three weeks - and that really felt like a chore.;)

I'm going to go against most of the advice I normally give on figure painting (start with R&F, and leave the more interesting figures as a treat for yourself once they're done) - but have a look through the blisters in your local store, and find one figure that you really like the look of - no matter what it is or which army it's from (in fact, if it's from a different army to any you own, it could be a bonus). Undercoat it, and when dry, stick a cd on and start to paint it - pick a simple colour scheme, don't have a goal of completing it by time x, accept that it's probably not going to be a work of art, and simply paint it as best you can.

Once it's done, stick it next to your painting area, start on one of your own models, and have that figure as something you're going to try and do better than. Once you start with one figure painted, you'll find you want to get more painted to go along with them.

Think of it as a hobby in it's own right rather than a part of gaming that you don't like, something relaxing, that takes you away from bills, work and stress for a little while.

Odin
31-08-2006, 09:55
I might well get my flatmate to paint some stuff for me. He's constantly being told he needs to enter Golden Daemon. And one of his armies was featured in the Chaos Space Marine Collectors Guide. Plus he owes me for the shopping bills and council tax!

Odin
31-08-2006, 09:58
I'm going to go against most of the advice I normally give on figure painting (start with R&F, and leave the more interesting figures as a treat for yourself once they're done) - but have a look through the blisters in your local store, and find one figure that you really like the look of - no matter what it is or which army it's from (in fact, if it's from a different army to any you own, it could be a bonus). Undercoat it, and when dry, stick a cd on and start to paint it - pick a simple colour scheme, don't have a goal of completing it by time x, accept that it's probably not going to be a work of art, and simply paint it as best you can.

Once it's done, stick it next to your painting area, start on one of your own models, and have that figure as something you're going to try and do better than. Once you start with one figure painted, you'll find you want to get more painted to go along with them.

Thing is, I don't need to try and do better painting - I'm actually very good (he says modestly). In fact, if I didn't hate painting so much, I'd probably enter Golden Daemon myself. I think that's part of the problem. If I was a crap painter I could just slap a basic paint-job on my models and be happy with it. But I can't just do a simple paint-job, because I know I can do much better. I will try again though.

Cruentus
31-08-2006, 17:18
Other than that, if Jonny Newgamer is faced with the choice of spending $500 on a rulebook, codex, army and painting supplies or prepainted figs with the rules in the box, totaling $100 What is he going to choose?

Except that, from what they're doing, is you'd spend $500 on the rulebook, codex, army, and painting supplies from GW, or

spend $485 for rulebook, codexc, army, pre-painted.

At best, they're going to offer the prepainteds at the same price as the unpainted, so there is no savings in that regard, other than time spent painting, and painting supplies (which are probably the best value - I still have working paints from 10 years ago).

While I think the switch to prepainteds will bring in more 'gamers', it won't bring in more 'hobbyists'. Further, I have a problem with the prepainteds, because all the armies look the same, if, at best, they make 2 different schemes. I mean, if you don't have the inclination to paint now, why would you suddenly have the inclination to paint over them to change the scheme?

I think it'll just move that particular game into the realm of clicky games or battletech: a further, even smaller niche within wargaming. I don't think it will eclipse the 'hobby' and unpainteds. Besides, I wouldn't care if they were prepainted, if I don't like the background or the setting doesn't grab me, I wouldn't play it.

And I'd love to see the painting competitions, or judging painting at tournies ;)

shakespear
31-08-2006, 17:56
There price is MUCH less than GW for $150 you can have 1300 points of MI.

They have promised nothing above $29.99

Cruentus
31-08-2006, 19:39
There price is MUCH less than GW for $150 you can have 1300 points of MI.

They have promised nothing above $29.99

Right, sorry, I misunderstood. You were comparing apples to oranges :)

The point I'm making is that you're paying the same price for pre-painted, as for unpainted. So, in your example. You can pay $150 for unpainted MI + $18 for paints, or $150 for prepainted. Oooh, big savings. But if that floats your boat, more power to you.

You're making a comparison across game systems, which don't have similar points costs, army sizes, or anything, so its bogus ;)

Besides, I'd rather spend $500 on GW than $150 on crappy models, in a setting that is rather boring and one-dimensional (gee, bugs again). And don't even get me started on the Skinnies :eek:

:)

Senbei
31-08-2006, 20:39
Hmn... If your talking about the Mongoose stuff... That company seems to be plagued by bad photographs. The MI are, overall, actualy nicer sculpts than GW's IG. Skinnies were nasty but will be re-sculpted. Bugs are good... not as varied as Nids but you also never get the 'Oh, thats a mutated "B", I thought it was an "A" because you used a load of "A" parts in converting it and I don't own the codex' due to it being difficult to mistake a lil bug for a Tanker. There are, in theory, 4 SST races.... (Note that GW only still support a handful of the races they started with,,, e.g. Humans, Orks, Eldar... actualy, that's about it.. Nids don't count due to a 100% redesign) and Mongoose have released a statement anouncing that they are releasing a new game using the new SST ruleset that will contain another four armies and be compatible with all SST stuff..... Background is different mind....

Crazy Harborc
01-09-2006, 01:01
I do wish them good luck in their attempt to attract newbies with ready to use goodies in the next version of SST. IMHO, that just may become a VERY excellant gimmic to bring in gamers who want to play but have no time to prepare minies first.

What the heck.......What is wrong with Mongoose charging a low, low price for prepainted minies? I really don't understand the objection.:)

The Winslow
01-09-2006, 01:35
No objection at all to Mongoose doing it. It will distinguish their line from other games, and give it a selling point.

I'd rather not see GW do it. If you think the GW stores are filled with 11 year olds now, wait until they don't even have to paint the models. Then you'll see the next step "hey, I paid for my army, who has time to read the rules!"
I shudder to think what a saturday would be like at my shops with 30 or so kids that suddenly want to play, and don't have to do anything more than rip open the box and demand a game.

Crazy Harborc
01-09-2006, 02:23
People who want to continue painting will likely still be able to buy "need lots of work" boxes full of pieces that need glue and paint.

Winslow......I agree with your post. But, it "could" make lots of new extra money for GW. It will VERY likely earn lots of money for Mongoose and introduce a large number of newbies to wargaming via Mongoose's systems.

Sai-Lauren
01-09-2006, 08:46
The point I'm making is that you're paying the same price for pre-painted, as for unpainted. So, in your example. You can pay $150 for unpainted MI + $18 for paints, or $150 for prepainted. Oooh, big savings. But if that floats your boat, more power to you.

Don't forget, you've actually got to pay the wages of the painters, the running costs of the building they're working in and so on.

For that "$150 of unpainted figures, plus $18 of paints", it'd more likely work out around $200, if not more. Even if the figures are painted somewhere with cheap labour (and effectively making the paint virtually free because they're buying it in bulk), they've still got to be shipped to your store - with the possibility of breaking the figures or damaging the paint jobs on the way, unless you pack them in foam (more expense) or ship them in small group/individual boxes like the Heroclix/WoTC Star Wars figures are - which again raises the cost.

Add in that the paint jobs would likely be basic (they're trying to churn out as many figures as possible per worker per hour, so would probably be sprayed undercoat, sprayed base colour and have flesh and weapons picked out), and any exotic details are going to be decals - at best they'll have stuck them on for you.

It'd be like buying something listed as "Pro-Painted" on e-bay.:rolleyes:

IJW
01-09-2006, 09:06
@ Sai-Lauren - for reference (having actually read 30+ pages in the thread on the Mongoose forum), the models are mainly being painted by high-tech means and not via cheap labour. So most of your points about basic point jobs due to figures per hour are irrelevant...

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/product_images/full_size/evopre2.jpg

Sure, I can do a far better job than this, but there are surprisingly large numbers of people out there who can't (or don't have time due to work, kids etc.). Mongoose have repeatedly stated that the prepainted models will cost the same (or less) than their current metal models, although we'll have to wait until April to find out for sure.

Crazy Harborc
02-09-2006, 01:39
Over the years, a very common "not for me" I have heard is "I wouldn't have time to paint all that stuff!!" I've heard similar statements from wargammers too. This idea just may be a BIG booster for pulling in newbies.

BlazeXI
04-09-2006, 08:18
i would love to have the option of buying either modeller sets (like the ones now) or prepainted sets at the same price (as supposedly SST will be done). Right now I have 5 fantasy armies, and only two are playable (at least 2000 points painted).

Those prepainted sets would enable me to play with secondary armies straight away and leave my favourite army for painting and modeling.

jansenm
04-09-2006, 09:50
you can always hire someone to paint your minis

Crazy Harborc
05-09-2006, 02:50
These days, you can go to a games store and pick from hundreds/thousands of PC and or playstation games. No painting or assembly required, and no long hours of time preparing to play a first game after hours reading the rules and debaiting what the heck they mean by that??

I have thousands of "I painted that" minies. I have armies for several sets of rules. I'm not likely to go bonkers for pre-painted goodies. HOWEVER, newbies or "just got started playing wargames a few weeks/months ago" people.....They DON'T know how to paint well or quick yet. Offer them good looking ready to use NOW minies for the same price as unready ones:evilgrin:

Let's see now.....GW, unassembled, not ready to use....OR assembled, ready to use minies at lower prices than GW's. Game rules and accessories to.

Oh, nobody will buy thaaaattt. Especially if it's sci-fi gaming.:rolleyes:

Captain Rufus
05-09-2006, 06:39
@ Sai-Lauren - for reference (having actually read 30+ pages in the thread on the Mongoose forum), the models are mainly being painted by high-tech means and not via cheap labour. So most of your points about basic point jobs due to figures per hour are irrelevant...

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/product_images/full_size/evopre2.jpg


Even if I never play Mongoose's minis game, I want to buy that set just to use as Squat Exo Armor troops for 2nd ed 40K play. And maybe unarmored Mobile Infantry for RPG uses. Wizkids' Horrorclix does have an Alien set coming out and an Alien Queen. Some Space Hulk boards and I have the Aliens movie scenario!

BlazeXI
05-09-2006, 15:59
Even if I never play Mongoose's minis game, I want to buy that set just to use as Squat Exo Armor troops for 2nd ed 40K play. And maybe unarmored Mobile Infantry for RPG uses. Wizkids' Horrorclix does have an Alien set coming out and an Alien Queen. Some Space Hulk boards and I have the Aliens movie scenario!

As I have written before a mate of mine claims the game to be excellent. I decided to take a closer look at it in the near future. Might be interesting.

If you have an indy around selling SST take a look at it as I plan to. You've got nothing to lose.

Pokpoko
05-09-2006, 16:40
i can support that statement-the rules are very good(not perfect, since there are a few "grey spots" in the rules), less "cluttered" then the 40k. but it's not a place to discuss this;).


Even if I never play Mongoose's minis game, I want to buy that set just to use as Squat Exo Armor troops for 2nd ed 40K play
that may be a bit problematic(depending on how big the exo of squats is supposed to be), as these guys are a good bit higher(about head taller) then the normal MI infantry, which is already taller then a GW marine.