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Odin
15-08-2006, 13:29
As the Warhammer army books are gradually re-released during 7th edition, I have started thinking about the future for Chaos. While other books are certainly due first (High Elves, Dark Elves, Vampire Counts, Skaven), and Beasts of Chaos is still a fairly recent release, it is likely that GW will be starting to think about how they will go about re-releasing the Chaos books.

One of the key things they need to think about is obviously the way the armies can be combined. This unique system is a great way of providing both themes and felixibility to Chaos generals. But it is also a very tricky system to implement well, and the current system could benefit from some improvements.

One key change will, I suspect, be to have proper lists for each of the chaos army types. Currently, Mortals have no special choices, as those are basically taken up by Daemons and Beasts. However, I think there is quite a lot of support for the idea of moving certain mortal troop types into Special. Specifically, I think this would be Chosen Knights, Chosen Warriors and Chariots. The 0-1 limit could then be reasonably removed from Chosen Troops (I believe GW are trying to move away from 0-1 limits). This would mean that you have to make a conscious choice between getting some of the more elite Mortal troops, or having Beastherds, Furies etc. However, normal Warriors would need either a price drop or a bit of a boost (like a lot of elite infantry), as they are currently overpriced and a bit rubbish without the Chosen upgrade. And Aspiring Champions need to be made worthwhile (why would you ever take one except as a BSB?).

The Mortals could also do with a few new options. I would suggest that they need a new Rare choice (Id like to see the return of the Chaos Altars from WAAAY back). I also think some Marauder skirmishers might be interesting, perhaps with javelins and shields. Id also quite like to see the return of marauder archers (yes, Chaos should focus primarily on close combat, but it seems likely that the northern tribesmen would have some limited missile troops). I also think the Chaos Giant would fit a bit better in the Mortals list, partly because Beasts have 4 Rare choices and Mortals only have 1, but also because as a humanoid it seems to fit slightly better into the Mortal list. Finally,Id like to see Marauders given the Dogs of War special rule (replacing that option from the DoW main list).

The Daemon army list will, I expect, be more like the Daemonic legion list, with Daemonic Cavalry as Special, and Daemonic Chariots as Rare. Heralds should also be a permanent addition, and the unit champions should be available for infantry and cavalry. One thing I have always wondered about is whether there should be any undivided lesser daemons (other than Furies). It always seemed strange to me that an undivided daemon couldnt choose any undivided minions.

The Beasts book is actually pretty balanced, with a decent balance of core, special and rare choices. No urgent need for this one to be re-done. When it is, Id like to see a Centigor Hero though.

Blimey, what a lot of waffle! Anyway, I just wanted to see what you lot think what do you want to see? What do you expect to see? And what do you NOT want to see?

Metafizikal
15-08-2006, 13:49
yeah, I really would like there to be some incentive to take chaos warriors, theyre way too slow and poor right now, marauders could use a boost too.

daemons need a nice bump too, atleast full command in all basic daemons, and probably the LD upgrade that storm gave them.

Odin
15-08-2006, 13:58
yeah, I really would like there to be some incentive to take chaos warriors, theyre way too slow and poor right now, marauders could use a boost too.

daemons need a nice bump too, atleast full command in all basic daemons, and probably the LD upgrade that storm gave them.

Yes, I don't rate Marauders much either, especially as they can't take Marks.

The problem with raising the Daemons' Ld is that you would then be unable to take a greater daemon/daemon prince in an army led by a Chaos Lord (as the daemon would have a higher Ld and therefore must be the General). Perhaps raise the Ld, but have a rule stating that all daemons lose a Ld if they are in an army with a non-daemonic general? I dunno.

vampires are cool!
15-08-2006, 13:58
i agree totaly,with your comments on the warriors metafizikal, but i also think they need to drasticaly rethink the daemons; they're just to expensive for what they do and even then they dont do alot. i will admit that being hit by a unit of bloodletters is nasty, but they do get slaughtered by missiles and even magic - something that khorne supposidly protects against.
also the mortals are actauly more powerful than the daemons - i dont like this - and i'd also like to see more care taken over the greater daemons

Shaitan
15-08-2006, 14:27
Personally I think there is nothing wrong with the Marauders. Cheap infantry with some nice equipment options.

I think they should change the Warriors and the Daemonic Infantry. Either drop their point costs or pimp the units. Cause now they are just too expensive for what they do.

Also, the Lore of Tzeentch and the Lore of Nurgle might possibly need a revision.

Odin
15-08-2006, 15:20
One other suggestion I had was that the mark of tzeentch should be changed, as follows:

Hero (+35 points) - Becomes Level 1 Sorcerer. May upgrade to Level 2 for +35 points.

Lord (+105 points) - Becomes Level 3 Sorcerer. May upgrade to Level 4 for +35 points.


Also, models with the mark of Khorne should probably lose their bonus dispel dice when they lose frenzy (perhaps with a small discount on cost).

TheWarSmith
15-08-2006, 15:42
So you propose that the new "mortals" list would look similar to archaon's horde, where chosen are simply special choices, and they do gain a skirmishing assault unit as a special(or is it rare?) choice.

If they do re release chaos for 7th eventually(3-4 years out) they need to release the daemon and mortals book almost back to back. Beast book doesn't really need any changes.

The problem is that mortals aren't perfectly stand alone as they should/could be, and daemons(not counting DL) are FAR from being stand alone.

Really all they need to do is work over mortals a bit, as you guys have mentioned(I agree for the most part), then revise the Storm of chaos DL a BIT(cause it wasn't meant to be combined with mortal/beasts), tweak a bit and done. It wouldn't have to be a total overhaul, more similar to what dwarves got with their book(albeit more complicated, i'll give you that.)

500 posts!!!

Odin
15-08-2006, 16:05
Another aspect I'd like to see changed is Daemon Princes. I think they need a bit of a boost, especially if they're to earn their extra hero slot. After all, their stats are almost identical to a Chaos Lord (except with +1 W). But they are far more vulnerable due to their inability to hide in units, and their poor armour/ward saves. They also have a very limited selection of Gifts (like my local petrol station:D ). As a result they tend to operate more like an expensive unit of furies than a combat monster.

I suggest the following possibilities:

Allow Daemon Princes access to most normal Magic Items.

Maybe give them a few more stat increases, such as +1 S & T (with appropriate cost increases).

Make wings an optional extra rather than a standard choice. A lot of Daemon princes in illustrations don't have wings, and I quite like the idea of a Khornate Daemon prince on foot. Perhaps put wings in the gifts section, thus avoiding them becoming a "no-brainer".

Improve their ward save or give them an armour save.

Make Daemon princes only take up a single Lord choice, not an extra Hero choice. However, if they have a magic level of (perhaps) above 2, then they should take up an extra hero slot.


....just a few ideas really. Some or none may be appropriate.

ebolatheripe
15-08-2006, 17:16
I would love to be able to possess and summon a Greater daemon like in 40k. That seems more in line with the fluff and would make the Great Unclean One a better option, if he could possess a Knight in the thick of a fight.

I think all daemons with the exception of Screamers and Furies need a big points reduction, and there own book.

TheWarSmith
15-08-2006, 17:24
Perhaps Daemons could work like they do in 40k where you basically are just buying stat increases

Daemonic flight(fly)
Daemonic speed(M7-10, not sure yet)
Daemonic resilience(+1W)
Daemonic strength(+1S)
Daemonic visage(-1LD to enemies within 6")
Daemonic magic(+Xpts per lvl)

Limit the point cap and have marks give certain gifts automatically.

Metafizikal
15-08-2006, 17:57
Well, the daemon legions are by and large too good, so I dont think they need a huge boost. Just a few things. They definately need more options, by the way of daemonic cavalry and chariots.

the extra LD things is interesting...perhaps the rule could be as simple as they get +1 LD in a daemon army.

the extra LD is a lot bigger than people think, instable on LD 10 is like ld10 stubborn, its mean.

Kyte
15-08-2006, 18:21
Also, the Lore of Tzeentch might possibly need a revision.

NO! It's (IMO) PERFECT! I once turned an entire unit of goblins into horrors :D

TheWarSmith
15-08-2006, 18:37
I think what'd be cool is if Indigo fire had lvls.

lvl 1-S2, horrors
lvl 2-S2, flamers
lvl 3-S2, screamers
lvl 56-S10, chariot(just kidding)

Obviously the casting values for lvl 2 and 3 would be higher

vampires are cool!
15-08-2006, 18:41
Perhaps Daemons could work like they do in 40k where you basically are just buying stat increases

Daemonic flight(fly)
Daemonic speed(M7-10, not sure yet)
Daemonic resilience(+1W)
Daemonic strength(+1S)
Daemonic visage(-1LD to enemies within 6")
Daemonic magic(+Xpts per lvl)

Limit the point cap and have marks give certain gifts automatically.

exactly what id do
internets for that man!

Lostanddamned
15-08-2006, 19:09
Perhaps Daemons could work like they do in 40k where you basically are just buying stat increases

Daemonic flight(fly)
Daemonic speed(M7-10, not sure yet)
Daemonic resilience(+1W)
Daemonic strength(+1S)
Daemonic visage(-1LD to enemies within 6")
Daemonic magic(+Xpts per lvl)

Limit the point cap and have marks give certain gifts automatically.

That sounds like the ticket indeed, but I would have marks give additional bonuses...

DeathMasterSnikch
15-08-2006, 19:12
Perhaps Daemons could work like they do in 40k where you basically are just buying stat increases

Daemonic flight(fly)
Daemonic speed(M7-10, not sure yet)
Daemonic resilience(+1W)
Daemonic strength(+1S)
Daemonic visage(-1LD to enemies within 6")
Daemonic magic(+Xpts per lvl)

Limit the point cap and have marks give certain gifts automatically.

I like this idea *Strokes beard thoughtfully*

ebolatheripe
15-08-2006, 19:18
Perhaps Daemons could work like they do in 40k where you basically are just buying stat increases

Daemonic flight(fly)
Daemonic speed(M7-10, not sure yet)
Daemonic resilience(+1W)
Daemonic strength(+1S)
Daemonic visage(-1LD to enemies within 6")
Daemonic magic(+Xpts per lvl)

Limit the point cap and have marks give certain gifts automatically.

That would be great, but, considering the number of options a Chaos force can field, it could eliminate a Chaos armies weaknesses, making it unbalanced. The only way it may possibly work is if each Daemonic upgrade is of a super high points cost.

TheWarSmith
15-08-2006, 19:37
well, they certainly wouldn't be 5-20 points each like they are in 40k, no.

samw
15-08-2006, 21:24
Actually with the new targetting rules a model in a unit would be pretty safe. Would be a reason to keep the guy on foot.

Gazak Blacktoof
15-08-2006, 21:44
There are lots of alterations I'd make to the chaos list if I were redesigning it. Most have already been mentioned. What I'd really love to see above everything else is the ability to field lots of different types of marauders utilising different equipment and fighting styles. Thrown weapons and bows should deffinately be included as options for marauders at a reasonable points value. All too often ranged weapons are discounted as being too expensive it'd be nice to see some units that could actually use their ranged weapons economically. Obviously to maintain balance ranged weapons have to be more expensive than those used in combat but at 4 points a model their prohibitive currently.

Ranked units of marauders could easily pay for an upgrade to take ranged weapons as a one off purchase rather than per model. This would remove the irritation of paying a ton of points for a few extra attacks and prevent any abuse that might arrise from taking lots of small units.

Sorry waffled a bit there.

der_lex
15-08-2006, 23:09
Some random thoughts:

- Marauders don't need any changes. They're perfect right now for what they're supposed to be: cheap rank and file cannon fodder. To give them marks would be unfluffy, since those that are actually noticed by the gods become Chaos Warriors.

- Chaos Warriors need to be a bit cheaper to make them cost-effective. Otherwise they are fine. On a modelling note, they really need to release that halberd/great weapon/god mark sprue, since converting those weapons on the new CW models would be an utter pain in the backside to do for one or more units. (I still have the older hunchbacks myself, thankfully)

- I'm divided on the Chosen issue. Points-wise I doubt that having more than one Chosen unit is viable in a 2000 point game, so making them special choices would be a downgrade for Chaos rather than an upgrade. I think the current situation is best, and also fits the fluff best (you have only one unit of knights and/or warriors that is the most favoured of all your army, which is what a Chosen unit is).

- Aspiring champions do seem a bit useless if you can get an exalted champion for only 20 points more. Rather than making them more powerful, it would be more viable to make exalteds a bit better and a bit more expensive to create a difference between the two.

- Marks: Fine as is. Mark of Nurgle might be a bit too expensive on units for what it does, but that's debatable.

- Rank and file daemons should have command options and possibly a very slight drop in cost to make them more worthwhile. This especially goes for Horrors, which are way too expensive for what is essentially a unit of goblins with bound spells and a daemonic ward save, especially if you add the usual Flamer bodyguards. Non-rank and file units like the Mounted Daemonettes, Nurglings and Furies/Screamers are fine as they are, both in cost and in power levels.

- An additional mortal/daemon rare choice would be strongly appreciated. I'm personally praying that the Hellcannon will be carried over into 7th, but somehow I doubt it, since it borders on being broken.

- Greater daemons need to be reduced to only a lord and hero choice to make them worth it compared to a properly tooled up daemon prince.

- Magic lores: I don't play Nurgle, so I can't comment on that. Slaanesh is fine as is, and might even need to be toned down a little. The only thing that needs changing in the Tzeentch list is Violet Fire. Either increase the range of the spell or throw it out altogether in favour of something that's actually worth taking.

Odin
16-08-2006, 10:04
Some random thoughts:

- Marauders don't need any changes. They're perfect right now for what they're supposed to be: cheap rank and file cannon fodder. To give them marks would be unfluffy, since those that are actually noticed by the gods become Chaos Warriors.

Agreed, except I think they need more options (the skirmishers and archers) to make an all-Marauder force more viable.


- Chaos Warriors need to be a bit cheaper to make them cost-effective. Otherwise they are fine. On a modelling note, they really need to release that halberd/great weapon/god mark sprue, since converting those weapons on the new CW models would be an utter pain in the backside to do for one or more units. (I still have the older hunchbacks myself, thankfully)

I think Warriors basically need to be reduced in cost by 2 points. That should be ablout right. Another option (probably controversial) would be to give them their 2 attacks back, but raise the cost by about 2 points (or maybe three). This would make them comparable to Saurus. Chosen then simply gain the chaos armour (and the chosen upgrade becomes cheaper - though the overall cost of chosen remains the same because the basic cost has been increased).


- I'm divided on the Chosen issue. Points-wise I doubt that having more than one Chosen unit is viable in a 2000 point game, so making them special choices would be a downgrade for Chaos rather than an upgrade. I think the current situation is best, and also fits the fluff best (you have only one unit of knights and/or warriors that is the most favoured of all your army, which is what a Chosen unit is).

I think you could be right. The main problem at the moment is that there's too many armies with just one unit of chosen knights and one unit of chosen warriors, which is not "fluffy" (though it could be argued as a Warlord's bodyguard). However, if one of my suggestions above were implemented, basic Warriors would be worth taking, so the problem should go away.


- Aspiring champions do seem a bit useless if you can get an exalted champion for only 20 points more. Rather than making them more powerful, it would be more viable to make exalteds a bit better and a bit more expensive to create a difference between the two.

I'd suggest just reducing the cost of the Aspiring Champion by about 15 points. The actual stats for the heroes are about right (except that I wonder if Exalted Champions should have extra Ld - after all, how are you a leader if your Ld is the same as that of your troops?).


- Marks: Fine as is. Mark of Nurgle might be a bit too expensive on units for what it does, but that's debatable.

Tzeentch really need my suggested option to take Level 1 and 3 heroes, especially for smaller games. And for Khorne to lose their dispel dice when they lose frenzy, I think (a) from a fluff point of view Khorne would not be inclined to provide protection against magic for troops who had lost a combat or even been broken, and (b) it provides a tactical option for magic using armies to wear down the Khorne army's dispel dice.


- Rank and file daemons should have command options and possibly a very slight drop in cost to make them more worthwhile. This especially goes for Horrors, which are way too expensive for what is essentially a unit of goblins with bound spells and a daemonic ward save, especially if you add the usual Flamer bodyguards. Non-rank and file units like the Mounted Daemonettes, Nurglings and Furies/Screamers are fine as they are, both in cost and in power levels.

I'd probably prefer to make Daemons better rather than cheaper. After all, they ought to be pretty damn nasty, more so even than Warriors. Other than that, I agree.


- An additional mortal/daemon rare choice would be strongly appreciated. I'm personally praying that the Hellcannon will be carried over into 7th, but somehow I doubt it, since it borders on being broken.

Hellcannon should probably wait for the Chaos Dwarf book (one which I hope they will start working on soon). There should probably be a (fairly limited) option to take a few CD bits in a Mortal army (probably not Beasts, and certainly not Daemons (the Chaos Dwarfs like to trap Daemons!).


- Greater daemons need to be reduced to only a lord and hero choice to make them worth it compared to a properly tooled up daemon prince.

I dunno. They poo all over Daemon Princes at the moment.


- Magic lores: I don't play Nurgle, so I can't comment on that. Slaanesh is fine as is, and might even need to be toned down a little. The only thing that needs changing in the Tzeentch list is Violet Fire. Either increase the range of the spell or throw it out altogether in favour of something that's actually worth taking.

I love Violet Fire. It's main use is scaring the crap out of the enemy, making them go to excessive lengths to protect their general. And when it does work it's superb. I killed a Vampire Lord in the second turn of a game with it once - the rest of the game was pretty much a mopping-up excercise.

der_lex
16-08-2006, 10:44
Agreed, except I think they need more options (the skirmishers and archers) to make an all-Marauder force more viable.

Okay, but only in a special 'Marauder list', then. In a regular Chaos list they should stay the same for game balance purposes.


Tzeentch really need my suggested option to take Level 1 and 3 heroes, especially for smaller games.

If Tzeentch armies get any better, people will absolutely refuse to play against me in the future. People already frown at the success rate of my list (and no, I don't field a dragon or oodles of chariots). Making Tzeentch viable for lower levels would be nice, though, I agree with that.



I love Violet Fire. It's main use is scaring the crap out of the enemy, making them go to excessive lengths to protect their general. And when it does work it's superb. I killed a Vampire Lord in the second turn of a game with it once - the rest of the game was pretty much a mopping-up excercise.

I mainly play against high leadership armies, so the chances of it actually passing are abysmally small. That means I have to dedicate 3 to 4 casting dice to a spell that only has a very small chance of succeeding. My main gripe, though, is the spell range. Only Chaos Lords have a realistic chance of casting this spell, and the average Tzeentch lords will be about 12 inches away from the enemy on his disc where he can pelt them with spells. If he's within 6 inches, he might as well charge and challenge the damn character (which will kill most things except for some dwarf and vampire characters).
If it were boosted to the levels of Belakor's similar spell, it would become a more viable spell to take.

Compyraptor
16-08-2006, 20:30
I love the mortals in the Chaos army and I'd love it if they made an all-Marauder army more viable, and give it a more barbaric feel and look. Perhaps they could do the following:

New Units:
- Beserkers - your cliched warpaint wearing, drugged up crazed nutters.
- Axe-Throwers or Archers
- War Altar

Upgrades:
- Give bows to Marauder Horsemen?
- The option to upgrade a Marauder Unit Champion (the Chieftains) to a Were. Basically gives them some small stat upgrade or something similar. Obviously there would be limits to how many Weres you could have in an army. Perhaps 0-1 units may have one? Or units with a Were become Special?

TheWarSmith
16-08-2006, 20:47
Marauder horsemen definately should have bows(probably short bows) instead of throwing axes. How often are you getting w/in 8" to chuck the axes at your opponent?

Skirmished archers would make more sense than simply giving marauders bow options. They wouldn't stand in really organized lines and fire like highly trained elves.

Berzerkers are already kind of like what I imagine beastmen to be. Keep in mind that anything going into special/rare has to be compared to beasts/daemons in terms of army role.

Empire get a war altar(well, they most likely will) so I'd hold off on this.

vampires are cool!
16-08-2006, 20:50
actualy id make the warriors an upgrade from marauders with chosen being a random thing [role for every unit in the army, on a 6, D6 models in the unit become chosen, these form a seperate unit] or something like that

TheWarSmith
16-08-2006, 20:59
And you just imported blood angels rules into warhammer fantasy. Well played, hehe.

I think that wouldn't quite work because unlike in 40k, 3 man units can't do much. The only way this would work is if the newly formed chaos unit was UBER good. Also, it'd suck to have your units messed around w/ in terms of ranking, etc.

DeathMasterSnikch
16-08-2006, 21:07
Don't like the idea of chaos bows...maybe throwing axes with a slightly higher range but bows undermines what chaos is. Getting headbutted.

Milgram
16-08-2006, 21:10
actualy id make the warriors an upgrade from marauders with chosen being a random thing [role for every unit in the army, on a 6, D6 models in the unit become chosen, these form a seperate unit] or something like that

this might work on 40k, but in whf the units work completely different.

the problem with chosen ones is - playwise not fluffwise - that you cannot have more than two units even in a 4000 points game, while you get two units in a 1'500 pt game.

how about give them a rule in the way of the big 'uns? you need to have at least one 'normal' unit of the same size for the first unit of chosen ones, another 2 units for the second one and 3 units for the third one - so 6 normal warrior units for 3 chosen units. fluffwise still closer than the 75%+ chosen ones I see nowerdays.

0-1 is a stupid rule anyway in big games - and a rule we normally change for big games - 0-2 on 4k.

aaaaand... I hope they bring back malal or finally introduce the horned rat as a chaos god. :)

WarSmith7
16-08-2006, 22:12
this might work on 40k, but in whf the units work completely different.

I agree, I hate blood angels (stupid death company crazies)


the problem with chosen ones is - playwise not fluffwise - that you cannot have more than two units even in a 4000 points game, while you get two units in a 1'500 pt game.

Is that really a problem, their cost makes taking them in low point games very unwise.


how about give them a rule in the way of the big 'uns? you need to have at least one 'normal' unit of the same size for the first unit of chosen ones, another 2 units for the second one and 3 units for the third one - so 6 normal warrior units for 3 chosen units. fluffwise still closer than the 75%+ chosen ones I see nowerdays.

That doesn't seem to bad, but i'd perfer something more laong the lines of 0-1 per mortal lord fielded. That limits their low game play and also allow for multiple unit in higher point games, plus it gives incentive to take mortal lords over beast ones (who have ambush) and daemons (who are uber), this turns them from being the chosen of the gods, to tribal leaders chosen warriors, the biggest and baddest of his tribe.


aaaaand... I hope they bring back malal or finally introduce the horned rat as a chaos god. :)

First Hashut, then we'll talk...

ebolatheripe
16-08-2006, 22:48
First Hashut, then we'll talk...

Ah men to that.

Pravus
18-08-2006, 13:49
How often are you getting w/in 8" to chuck the axes at your opponent?

All the time <pedant>well, within 6" anyway</pedant>! What I would like to see is variant marauder lists along tribal lines. Its quite clear from the fluff that the Kurgans and other eastern tribes have got the whole Mongol Horde thing going on whereas the norse tribes have more of an infantry bias. Of course, you can theme your army this way already with the existing list but with a variant might still be insteresting e.g.:

Kurgan Raiders List: Marauder Cavalry, Chaos Knights, Chariots core, Marauder Infantry, Chaos Warriors special.

Marauder Cavalry can have light armour (negates fast cavalry rule), shields, spears, short bows, throwing weapons

Norse Raiders List: Marauder Infantry, Chaos Warriors core; Marauder Cav, Chaos Knights and Chariots Special

In addition to standard equipment, Marauder Infantry may take an additional handweapon in a Norse list.

1 Marauder infantry unit can have the "beserk" upgrade making them subject to frenzy.

OR

1 marauder infantry unit can take the "huscarl" upgrade - the unit becomes stubborn if the general joins the unit. May also take a 25pt magic banner.

OR

Marauder infantry in a norse army get the "shieldwall" rule. Any unit with this rule and who is equiped with a shield, get +1 to their armour save from shooting to their front arc

Anyway - you get the idea. Probably not good ideas for a mian army list but would be good for back of the book variants ... maybe

Brother Maynard
18-08-2006, 14:24
I would think in a Kurgan Raiders list, heavy stuff like Knights, chariots, and warriors might be rare choices. Thinking that this type of force is moded after the Mogul hordes, which was comprised primarlily of fast light riders, anything more than that in a themed army would seem to be off the mark. As a compromise to limiting a Kurgan themed army to Light Horsemen and light foot soldiers only, I would say to allow the riders to wear light armor without losing their fast cavalry ability. Also, I'd let them and their foot slogging counter parts be allowed to carry short bows with a march and shoot ability.
Just some thoughts....

Odin
18-08-2006, 14:57
Thing is though, GW seem to be moving away from "variant" lists, and instead aiming to add that flexibility to the core lists. For example, the Dwarfs' ability to take a unit of slayers for every slayer hero, the rumoured Empire rules for Greatswords becoming core with an Elector Count (renamed now as Empire General - sensibly).

TheWarSmith
18-08-2006, 16:50
Look at 40k and the inherant flexibility within the core army book is more so, with:

Imperial Guard Doctrines
Space Marine Traits
Chaos Space Marine Gods
Maybe soon to be Eldar

WarSmith7
18-08-2006, 17:54
The futrue of chaos will be...

Tu-tu wearing pigs and monkeys flailing steam powered chainsaws... The horror...


Nah, in all seriousness.

Besides a few price adjustments and some redesigning of how to field chosen, I dont really see any big changes, except maybe something for daemonic legions.

Twisted Ferret
18-08-2006, 20:54
WAIT WAIT.


Marauders can't take Marks?!

vampires are cool!
18-08-2006, 21:10
nope they cant, and i do think that they should make the chaos more similar to the 40k chaos, upgrading units for a higher status and rank as they advanse towards daemonhood

TheWarSmith
18-08-2006, 21:19
Where you been man? you didn't know marauders couldn't take marks? I agree with that sentiment entirely. They haven't proven themselves enough to gain marks. Worse, think of the abuse for tzeentch marks.

10 marauders, flails, MoT(90 points for a mean flank unit and a power die)

I've been readin' about the Kurgan lately and think that they could make a great army theme, but unfortunately you'd probably have to use beastmen rules to represent them more accurately than marauders.

ebolatheripe
18-08-2006, 21:24
I would really just want unit costs to be adjusted and summoning of greater daemons. That would be enough for me.

DeathMasterSnikch
18-08-2006, 22:36
And the return of the old Great Unclean One, new ones head is wrong >=(

ebolatheripe
18-08-2006, 22:42
And the return of the old Great Unclean One, new ones head is wrong >=(

YES YES YES........... That too.