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UltimateNagash
15-08-2006, 17:38
OK, by 17, would you expect most people to have grown out of saying things like "Warhammer is for gays" and then asking "if I'm gay?" (the answer is no - unless you mean happy).
They say it's for "babies" and that I should have "outgrown it".
:wtf:
So, my question is simple: why are people such jerks about me liking Games Workshop games?

P.S. Maybe they're challenged by their own sexuality?
P.P.S. The people I'm referring to are all 17 year old boys in the UK who are somewhat stereotypical boys - they like football (which I don't like), are rarely serious, and many other things.
P.P.P.S. If you couldn't tell, I'm also a boy/man (17 years old).

Rant over. Now if people could be psychological and help me...

Oh, and they like Big B(r)other, and defend it.
Personally - it's the worst show since BT (Before Television)!

Damien 1427
15-08-2006, 18:06
If people go around using gay as an insult, they're probably not terribly intelligent to begin with. The arcane complexity of the game probably fried their poor widdle brains. Then again, anything beyond the gutter press or TV guides is no doubt cast aside because of the long words.

As for "outgrown it", well. We are playing with toy soldiers. It's a nerdy hobby, like comic books, roleplaying or collecting toys (All of which I do myself, geek pride). Most people who know I wargame either don't care, or have hobbies which are just as nerdy. If you have friends who give you a hard time about it, they're not exactly friends.

But it is geeky. Such is the nature of the beast. But people who'll give you crap over it are probably insecure, or just need someone below them in the social ladder so they can feel better about themselves.

Senbei
15-08-2006, 18:06
Dunno... Most people I've met who follow the hobby could be described as being quite homaphobic, some even a bit racist.... Neither of which can be targeted towards myself but I still could never find any reason to join in.

Then again, some of the aforementioned liked wrestling (sweaty, scantily clad, oiled men grappling with eachother... That could be considered slightly homo-erotic... they never saw it that way oddly...), and anyone who is willing to spend hours in a baking GW store on a hot August day has to have something wrong with them..... the places smell foul.

Anyway, back to reality. Truth is that its considered funny and/or macho to criticise people who don't follow mainstream or 'cool' hobbies... People will criticise you, in turn the majority of GW fanboys will talk down about other manufacturers, LARPers or, failing that, TCG players. In the end there are people much older than yourself into the hobby, yeah maybe we're not all into football and maybe GW has targeted the younger generations where the disposable income can be found but if you enjoy it it's not hurting anyone 'cept you via your wallet, lol.

UltimateNagash
15-08-2006, 18:28
Why can't they stop it?
I mean, I know I like comp games, TCGs, reading actual books (!), comics and other things, cartoons and many other things besides. And I don't care what they think - it just annoys me greatly they have to say there coments on something which I like, and they're just slagging it off.
But hey, from now on, I'm not taking any bad things from anyone, and if they do, well, my precious Zombie hounds will be eating early (I only let them out once a month, on a full moon, with some werewolf blood and a little bell on their collar so I can find them again). LOL :D.
I'm soooooo MAD! But such is the nature of life.
At least I know who's going to be mature enough to get a job (me alll the way!).

Olith
15-08-2006, 18:53
So are you in 6th form or something? Still with people you went to secondry/highschool with? That's why. Once you get into the real world no one will care. If you were at college you wouldn't be getting that, and if you are and I've assumed wrong just ignore them.

vampires are cool!
15-08-2006, 18:53
people dislike things they cant understand
they dont understand why you like wargaming
we all like it because its a form of escapism, an inteactive fantasy world bassed on our actions.
its like chess in that respect; you are in control of warriors - people dont think that chess is imature, so why warhammer - cos its goblins and dragons, and this has been promoted as a childish thing, a primative thing, in todays society.
"Its not real, you know" is the most common thing warhammer players hear, do we know this, of coures we do, but that doesnt detract from the fantasy that we're enjoying or the fun of winning.
basicaly, people think its weird cos most warhammer players arnt afraid of their enjoyment becoming stupid or escapist; we like it that way
my sister found me reading a kids book, "thats stupid," she said, "its not worth reading"
why?
beacuse its a childrens book? i've read plenty of 'adult' books, and most bore me to tears, a books a book
and fun is fun

EvC
15-08-2006, 19:01
Most people are ******. You'll probably find that the ones who are most vocal about telling you how gay and childish (Very ironic when someone calls something they don't understand "childish") are the most insecure, as they don't want anyone thinking that they might actually like the little toy soldiers really. A bit like closet gays, really...

Minister
15-08-2006, 19:03
Dunno... Most people I've met who follow the hobby could be described as being quite homaphobic, some even a bit racist.... Neither of which can be targeted towards myself but I still could never find any reason to join in.I'm curious as to what gives you the impression that gamers tend to be (able to be percieved as) homophobic and/or racist.

Simsandwich
15-08-2006, 19:39
I'm curious as to what gives you the impression that gamers tend to be (able to be percieved as) homophobic and/or racist.


Its just his experience.

Bombot
15-08-2006, 20:23
Warhammer is for gays?

Man, no wonder gay blokes are always trying to crack onto me!

TheWarSmith
15-08-2006, 20:48
people dislike things they cant understand
they dont understand why you like wargaming

BINGO!!!!

Lack of understanding is the prime root of bigotry and hatred. It's much easier to hate something because you don't understand it than take the time to try to figure it out. They like football, which you understand, and thus dont' make fun of, but don't enjoy it. They probably don't understand why a person wouldn't like sports too, so they probably make fun of you for that.

the sentiment on this board is actually somewhat unbiased. it seems truthful to me that once I got to college, nobody gave a RATS ASSS!!!! But that may be because it's a LOT easier to surround yourself with people who understand you in college and beyond.

I suggest you assail their house with warmachines(real or fake ones), then have your friends mine a tunnel and show up in his back yard. That'll learn him.

Mad Makz
16-08-2006, 04:00
Truth is if people find you different they will often use that as an excuse to assert there 'superiority' by making fun of that difference. Do not be bitter about this or get mad, truth is they have to justify what they do by belittling others, by complaining about their justifications you run very close to the territory of doing the same in reverse i.e "They don't like it because they are stupid and can't understand it."

This is not necessarily true - they are immature yes, and haven't potentially learnt to live/understand other peoples differences, but this is by and large true of the vast majority of 17 year olds.

Lots of wargamers ARE judgemental of other people, for their views, for their hobbies, for their differences. Judging football fans as jocks/stupid tars intelligent players of football just as much as judging warhammer as 'gay'. Both of which are patently and easily proven to be entirely worthless generalisations.

People are going to be judgemental all the way through your life. The best response you can do is to be proud of your hobby/interests but also try and be a well rounded human being. I don't play soccer or rugby or cricket, but a lot of the people who do play it interest me because they also happen to be nice people. As such I do what I can to know the rules of such sports because there are a vast number of people who I can converse with about it.

There is no 'superiority' in being willfully despondent/ignorant about any hobby. If you can chat about the football with one group of friends, and chat about warhammer with another group of friends, chances are you'll have more friends. And, because you'll set up a situation where you already have something in common, you will probably find that eventually some of the footballing friends - who now do like you/know they can converse with you on an equal level - will ask about those toy soldiers and respect you enough to either not give you stick about them or actually try them out themselves.

If they can't manage to be tolerant then you shouldn't waste your time on them, but that swings both ways, remember to be tolerant of their interests as well.

Zzarchov
16-08-2006, 06:39
Ok, is this really a confusion? Warhammer is on par with roleplaying games as definition of a nerd/geek, computer games only recently became acceptable when the graphics, gore and ease of play came into pop-culture levels.

Playing chess will also get you called a nerd , or "teh ****" or whatever the term these days is, the term varies but its a fact of life. Its not up to them to outgrow it, its up to you to stop caring.

Finn Sourscowl
16-08-2006, 08:31
I think the problem isn't with Warhammer (as your subject title suggests), but with the idiots who tease you about liking Warhammer. As other people have suggested, it's something they don't understand, irgo it's stupid irgo you're stupid.

I know how you feel though, and I suspect that the vast majority of gamers out there (ones who have grown up with the hobby through school) can sympathise as well. I was lucky though, since I went to a grammar school where the bully brigade could add 2 and 2 together and get something approaching 4 and didn't think that taking the **** out of someone for gaming was a particulalry worthwhile sport. They did occasionally, when bored I assume, but I imagine at your average state comp, it would be much worse. I was also lucky in that all my closest friends were gamers and we could just sort of close ranks and ignore any abuse.

I stayed with the hobby though, and now in my late twenties am more into it than ever (much to my wife's annoyance :D)... and the only abuse I get now is from her-who-must-be-obeyed about how much I spend!

So my advice to you would be to stick with it... any abuse from idiots who think you're gay for liking warhammer will go once you're in the Real World (TM)... and as someone pointed out, if it's your "firends" doing the abusing, then, well... :wtf:

Good luck!

snurl
16-08-2006, 09:56
TheWarSmith has got it right.

When high school is over you'll be suprised at how few of those folks you ever see again and at just how little their opinion matters now.

If negative comments from other folks get to you, try not wearing your hobby or interest on your sleeve, that is, keep it under your hat until you are around others who share the same interest in wargames.

People can be ignorant at times. Thats life.

Chuffy
16-08-2006, 11:41
What annoys me more than any of those is when people call Gee-Dub Warhammer.

"Yer, loik, wur you at loik war'ammer on tuesday, innit?"

Lardidar
16-08-2006, 14:10
You all know some random people :)

Most of my non gaming mates just think the mini's look cool and can't believe that I have the patience to hand paint them.

They understand it is a game but I think that is where they knowledge ends, fine by me it is not there thing. They don’t judge me for my hobby and I wont judge them for what they enjoy (mainly drinking and TV)

Anyone who calls you gay because of your hobby is rather immature to say the least, try to explain to them what a gay is and that your hobby in no way involves playing a game of ‘hide the pickle’ with another man.

3 0f 6
16-08-2006, 14:10
some like minded peeps decided they would vandalise the premesis i ran my club from........ they basicly decided the re decorate the wall and windows with thier hate for warhammer......

UltimateNagash
16-08-2006, 14:58
OK, Lardidar (smeg head, har, har, har, are you Rimmer?), I never said they were mates (at least I hopeI didn't), because from the 10 or so years of hell I've been with these kinds of people, I've given up on them.
My actual friends do think they're good, even though they don't play.
My brother enjoys football, plays it etc, and we get alongfine (it might due tothe fact he's about twice my age, but hey).
The title was just to catch peoples eyes (Ihave lazy eyes, and normally go tothingsthat either seems interessting to me, or are controversial (sp?).
BTW, I'm in England, normal school (so free) and am going into year 13 (second year of Sixth Form).
And thank you all for replieing.
And the fantasy thing. Well, I have an imagination, and can actually see what people are describing when written down (unlike some people, who if they start reading a book, they stop after 2 seconds - those are the kind of people I have to be with for over half a day, 5 times a week).
I really enjoy this hobby, and everything else, and I get along with people generally (I can have a proper conversation with adults, even if I'm not interrested, and they will talk back in an adult manner - I don't get talked down to).
I'm clever, it just doesn't show in tests - well, if there was a Games Workshop quiz (or a comics quiz, movie quiz etc [anything I'm really interrested in], I would do really well).
And 3 Of 6, that is really unfortunate, but I notice people do that to lots of people (this is not being racist, or anything else), like hate mail, bombs etc to people from other countries, different skin colours, religions, cultures etc. I guess the main thing is this: most people are intolerant of other people.
Thank you again for al the replies.

Bombot
16-08-2006, 15:31
I'm clever, it just doesn't show in tests

You’re very humble too, I note!

Look, as Zzarchov said, Warhammer and such like are irredeemably geeky. It will never be acceptable to go up to some random fit girl at the bar and ask if she would like to see your dwarf army!

Don’t be a whinging nerd that goes on about how much they hate hates everything ‘mainstream’ (not saying you are!). Instead, just march on not giving a *******.

The **** takers will grow out of it, or just get left behind when you go to university / work / whatever. Just laugh it off for now, or deliver some witty retort (it might just be safer to laugh it off).

TheWarSmith
16-08-2006, 16:28
Dude, it could be worse. When I was in high school my house got vandalized(BADLY).

Among the list of items used to vandalize my house:
toilet paper
ketchup(on car and driveway)
condoms
Crisco(put in door handles, you can NEVER GET IT ALL OUT!!!)
Shaving Cream
Eggs
Gay porn mags

The ketchup and shaving cream were used to spell out various derogatory words referring to Jews and homosexuals that I will not repeat here, but I'm sure you can all imagine what they were, along with the huge swastika they felt appropriate to emblazen in my lawn with shaving cream(that was actually good because it allowed me to file a hate crime).

1)I am Jewish
2)I am not gay

The fact that people would go through this much effort to humiliate somebody is very pathetic. The efforts for them to impose homosexuality on me prove almost without a doubt that most of the criminals are harboring sexual confusion at the least. Does one already OWN gay porn mags, or does one go out specifically to buy/print them upon drafting a project of this nature?

Sorry, I probably distracted from your point, but just saying, verbal harrassment isn't the worst. People make fun of people to get a reaction confirming they've upset the person. If you ignore an *******, it PISSES them off and they simply can't understand why, so they'll just move onto somebody else.

In the case above, when they called me gay, I responded and reacted, which was a mistake. It rewarded their actions, leading to further and more horrific actions.

UltimateNagash
16-08-2006, 16:40
You’re very humble too, I note!

Look, as Zzarchov said, Warhammer and such like are irredeemably geeky. It will never be acceptable to go up to some random fit girl at the bar and ask if she would like to see your dwarf army!

Don’t be a whinging nerd that goes on about how much they hate hates everything ‘mainstream’ (not saying you are!). Instead, just march on not giving a *******.

The **** takers will grow out of it, or just get left behind when you go to university / work / whatever. Just laugh it off for now, or deliver some witty retort (it might just be safer to laugh it off).

I know i'm clever, but I don't know everything. Ask me a question and see what happens.
And TheWarSmith (i hope I got the name right), :wtf: were those people on? And since you know who did it, why no law? Justice? Etc (in an English/American/wherever you live kind of way).

The boyz
16-08-2006, 19:52
Most of my mates, are pretty cool when it comes to collecting/playing Warhammer. They just see it as something I do and dont really take the mick out of me for collecting "little toy soldiers". So I dont have any problems from my mates really.

The people that give me the most greif about the hobby are my parents. They are the people that critisise my involvement in the hobby. In fact my parents are the ones more likely to call me "sad", and say comments like " I thought you would off grown out this crap by now".

I think at the end off the day Warhammer, well the GW hobby in general is something that people do associate geeks/nerds with. If people want to cool me a geek or what ever then let them, I couldnt really care what they think.

vampires are cool!
16-08-2006, 20:22
You’re very humble too, I note!

Look, as Zzarchov said, Warhammer and such like are irredeemably geeky. It will never be acceptable to go up to some random fit girl at the bar and ask if she would like to see your dwarf army!


HA! i might do that just to see what happens!

DeathlessDraich
16-08-2006, 20:34
1) It is true that the Warhammer Gamer has a nerdy image in England and will be an easy target but that does not mean only nerds and geeks are wargamers. Does it matter anyway?

2) It is not quite in the same category as chess. The chess player's image is slightly different.

3) Nearly all primary school boys are fascinated by the game initially. Most of this initial fascination dies off quickly because i) it requires a certain amount of brain power ii) it requires concentration for long periods.
The average English schoolboy is incapable of both!
also iii) it costs - this is GW's fault!

4) Those who derogate wargamers are actually disguising and denying their previous fascination with the game when they were little boys.

5) Those who persevere with the game are imaginative and intelligent boys who tend to be ostracised if they are in the average state school. When the same boys are in college or university they are viewed very differently. Wargamers are simply regarded as idiosyncratic but easily acceptable in larger social circles. Most university students will accept that the wargamer has persisted with a hobby they gave up years ago.

So, Ultimate Nagash, enjoy the game.
Enjoy life in the way you want and not in the way others imposes on you.

My son introduced me to the game and I've supported his interest and willingly adopted it.
Having been in the army and excelled in sports, I willingly embrace being a Nerd!:D

hereticdave
16-08-2006, 21:24
Well like several people have said once you're out into the real world of life i'd say a significant portion if not all of that pressure dissapears. Also as another poster mentioned you're only usually picked out as a nerd etc if that's you're entire life, if you're well rounded out with other interests then once out of Secondary school then people will either not know at all or not give a damn.

Hell its well known by the people i socialize and work with i run a games night on Tuesday's and its even called Nerd Nite to poke fun at ourselves. Nerd Nite's comprise of much raucous gaming that even the wives enjoy combined with rather large quantities of beer. While we may poke fun at ourselves one guy drives tanks for a living and is a regular deer hunter, i've got more working historical firearms and bayonets in my collection than you can shake a stick at and thats just two of us. Are we Nerds and like to play with ickle bitty toy soldiers? - sure. Are we pansies? I suspect not.

Now where's that bloody pickle gone? :P

hereticdave
16-08-2006, 21:45
hehe after re-reading my previous post i guess i might come across as a gun toting loon :eyebrows: Which happily is not the case, i was trying to search for something i did that was non-nerdy as possible :) To elaborate further then i'm very interesting in both wine and beer making, i've just built a 270 square foot brick patio, laid another 500 square feet of grass, built three fences and helped my neighbours build their's, i'm a programmer by trade [though regretfully only doing network admin right now] i'm a serious hiker and biker as well as fitting in time to play the occasional sports and all that nerdy reading and gaming :)

So as i say round yourself out, define yourself. That said defining yourself solely on Warhammer is probably not a good idea :p

Lostanddamned
16-08-2006, 22:21
Yes I'm a geek, why the hell not.

But I'm also a 6'6" human being, with a very solid forehead, and if you insult me about my hobby you will discover that I can headbutt. Ditto anyone who mocks my sexuality, even if they don't realise.

But if you are my mate and you don't mean it, then hey! I'll mock yours too, its all in fun then.#

RevEv
16-08-2006, 22:31
What's wrong with Warhammer?

Better to ask what's wrong with those who mock warhammer.

It is, as others have already said, they just don't understand it and - rather than try and understand it - they just shut it out and ridicule those who participate in what, it has to be said, is the ultimate in geekdom.

I've had it with my own sister - she refused to even come into the GW store I was working in, preferring to stand outside it to wait for me. I've also had a boss try to say that I was unsuitable for a job because I played - only to be corrected by a mutual friend who pointed out the social benefits of actually talking to each other while we play.

It's just another example of predjudice - those with little or no imagination simply putting down those they do not understand or feel threatened by. As hereticdave says - define yourself. I have - I'm a 6ft, 16stone rugby playing, wargaming chaplain who enjoys triathlons, mountain walking, canoe surfing, and motorcycling.... funnily enough it's these things that my wife likes about me too. Alongside that, if people want to call me a geek, or a gay, or a nerd or whatever just because I play with toy soldiers I don't really care.

You are who God made you!

UltimateNagash
16-08-2006, 22:55
My name has no space in it DeathlessDriad! (so very picky, and evil - like my namesake, he, he).

And you want me to define myself: well, I'm not that large, (no idea how heavy I am), I play and enjoy tennis (regurlarly), work on Saturdays and don't drive their (I cycle), very imaganative, have good attention, and who gets on with people who are mature. And I like many things that are not "mainstream".
And this is just something else: I'm unique, I like it, and I don't follow the trend (I play TCG's, and always make a theme, but it's not a common theme, and I never NetDeck [copying a deck from the net, in a bag]).
All in all, I like myself, but the people I have to endure at school - well, they're intollerant ****?>$:skull:^%!^"*$^£*:skull:77777#';][[][@~}{@@>@*(*%^%^!(^%"£)$)""($*"$$ so and soooos.
RANT OFFICIALLY OVER (although I'll still come and view my thread).
Now where'd I go and put those half finished bug things?

Ill Eagle
18-08-2006, 20:51
These boys are calling your hobby gay because they see it upsets you. They're just pushing your buttons, you get mad and they get a kick out of manipulating your emotions like that.

Once you become mature enough to not care what the other chimps say about you, they'll stop flinging their poo at you.

grickherder
18-08-2006, 21:51
Great post Ill Eagle.

slaughteredbull
18-08-2006, 23:05
Ill Eagle is spot on, at the end of the day everyone has some aspect of their life that they are geeky about, whether it is playing wargames, rpg's, watching wrestling, collecting comics, or even knowing every single stat about football.

Everyone is a geek as far as I'm concerned, and basically people can say what they want but deep down they just say to ease their own insecurities.

UltimateNagash
03-09-2006, 12:56
What's wrong with Warhammer?

Better to ask what's wrong with those who mock warhammer.

It is, as others have already said, they just don't understand it and - rather than try and understand it - they just shut it out and ridicule those who participate in what, it has to be said, is the ultimate in geekdom.

I've had it with my own sister - she refused to even come into the GW store I was working in, preferring to stand outside it to wait for me. I've also had a boss try to say that I was unsuitable for a job because I played - only to be corrected by a mutual friend who pointed out the social benefits of actually talking to each other while we play.

It's just another example of predjudice - those with little or no imagination simply putting down those they do not understand or feel threatened by. As hereticdave says - define yourself. I have - I'm a 6ft, 16stone rugby playing, wargaming chaplain who enjoys triathlons, mountain walking, canoe surfing, and motorcycling.... funnily enough it's these things that my wife likes about me too. Alongside that, if people want to call me a geek, or a gay, or a nerd or whatever just because I play with toy soldiers I don't really care.

You are who God made you!

The whole title thing was really a scam: it's a great way to attract people to a topic by putting something outlandish on the front. :D Grief I'm evil!

sigur
03-09-2006, 14:35
Wow, this is pretty cool. It not only shows quite a bit of immatureness but also you might get a PM from the mods quite soon. Way to go, you're the man!

Wintermute
03-09-2006, 17:16
The whole title thing was really a scam: it's a great way to attract people to a topic by putting something outlandish on the front. :D Grief I'm evil!

Next time I suggest you entitle the thread correctly. I say next time because I'm closing this thread.

Wintermute
The WarSeer Inquisition