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rickie8437
16-08-2006, 15:49
heres a question for you how did the amrour work for the primarchs

did they have to under go the same surygay like the marines black carrapse plugs in skin or did they have them from the start

just flufff never says

Kage2020
16-08-2006, 15:56
A rather interesting point, although no more breaking of the 'fluff' than the question of Inquistors and the adepta sororitas, i.e. there are ways that they can be controlled without recourse to the Black Carapace.

With that said, taking the somewhat twee stance to Primarchs that GW tend to do (IMO, of course), the chances are that they don't need power armour. thus, one might think of it as a variation of the concept of "plate armour". After all, if you read the descriptions in the novels it seems that they're (GW) are heading that way anyway! :D

Kage

Commander Ozae
16-08-2006, 16:36
Most likely the primarchs designed their armor themselves or they got the most talented tech priests to design it for them. The armor was probably more ceremonial than anything else.

Kage2020
16-08-2006, 17:00
And to answer the question that I missed, I would argue that Primarchs did not have all the external gubbins that Marines do in the current 40k universe.

Kage

Lord Zarkov
16-08-2006, 17:29
They must have had black carapace built in as the BC in all marines is grown from the gene seed that is descended from the primarcs and using the gene seed is the only way to make it.

The more interening comment IMO is what would happen if you used Primarch Progenoids

rickie8437
16-08-2006, 18:23
so are you saying that in the novels loken is said to be in plate armour(mrk) that they didnt have the bc and other plug things that it was just like a suit of armour a knight would wear

heretics bane
16-08-2006, 18:43
probably or the emporer had armour ready and waiting for them or they where strong enough to move it them selves

off topic:its alwaqys good to see a person from belfast on war seer,lol

Dais
16-08-2006, 19:06
power armor dosent HAVE to be integrated into the wearer. the servos that control motion can just aid in the movement of the wearer. i think there was a small note about it in the inquisitor rulebook.

Overlord Krycis
16-08-2006, 20:10
Yeah...but the point is that Space Marines have the Black Carapace...therefore, the Primarchs must have had the Black Carapace.
So they probably wore a suit that was more effective than Artificer armour...
Or ran around naked smacking people with large weapons (Russ)...

Chainsworded Codpiece
16-08-2006, 20:26
so are you saying that in the novels loken is said to be in plate armour(mrk) that they didnt have the bc and other plug things that it was just like a suit of armour a knight would wear

Nope, this is incorrrect. Loken HAD the Black Carapace; there is mentiuon of how it slightly deforms his torso and ribcage area (Mersadie Oliton the Remembrancer is watching him dress).

It's likely that the average Astartes thought of it as plate armor; to them, putting it on and having it "connect" to subdermal conduction-points is natural and almost-unnoticed. Kind of like when you strap on your shinguards for the zillionth time. You no longer chafe where the bands go, because that spot is "used" to the rub.

{Yeah, I used tie-on guards in Rec. Soccer, because they would flang off-center otherwise, when some wise-ass kicked me in the foreleg twenty times in a row. Also, I'm a wuss with skinny little calves, I have to tie that ***** on tight}

At any rate, Black Carapace, yes. Even for Pre-heresy Marines. All marks of Armor, except for the Mark One from the Old Unification Wars, needed that interface (IIRC). Otherwise, they were just armored spacesuits with power- coil augments. Not bad, but not Astartes Armor used to it's fullest potential.

Astartes Armor is different than "power armor". Non-Astartes can't wear it and use it well. they just lumber around.

Chainsworded Codpiece
16-08-2006, 20:36
Yeah...but the point is that Space Marines have the Black Carapace...therefore, the Primarchs must have had the Black Carapace.
So they probably wore a suit that was more effective than Artificer armour...
Or ran around naked smacking people with large weapons (Russ)...

Agreed. If the Primarchs didn't have the BC as a condition of being Primarchs, there is no doubt in my think-box that the Emperor had it put into them retroactive-special-like. Also, their field armors were likely works of great craft and cost, made specifically to maximize each individual superhuman's unique somatic talents. Uber-Artificer Armor, useless to all except that Primarch.

Mind you, I say field armor, beauase there are likely many times that Horus or Dorn or whomever really just did don a suit of oversized "plate armor", slabs of ceramite scrimshawed with awesome designs and tricked out with jeweled spikes.

I mean, why not? If all they are worried about is getting shot at by a few Non-Compliants over in Boring City on the planet of NoPlaceAtAll XII, the ceremonial plate, their Honor Guard, their fantastic bodily fortitude, and their latent psychic gifts will protect well enough...

Overlord Krycis
16-08-2006, 20:56
Thats a good point...
But...IIRC, Horus actually had a very old version of Terminator Armour...

Lord Dante
16-08-2006, 20:59
in HH FG Horuse has a few different suits of armour, isnt one terminator armour?

Maybe the Primarchs did have it added after the Emp found them..

rickie8437
17-08-2006, 06:55
cool just thoughtit would be cool to chat about i was just thinking when looking at the visions of death book

also in the novels it says that loken wears a mem suit under his armour is because mrk 4 plate wasnt so good in space or low grav worlds un like power amour of todays marines

rick

im english and live in belfast very strange lol but love it

rickie8437
17-08-2006, 06:57
yes he loads of the things i get the impresion that he has a walk in wardrob to pick which he would wear today (what a women)

Krusk
17-08-2006, 07:13
A primarch can act any damn way he wants, and still be about a million times more Manly than any mere mortal ever born. :)

scwolf
17-08-2006, 07:43
A primarch can act any damn way he wants, and still be about a million times more Manly than any mere mortal ever born. :)

And yes, that means you too, Chuck Norris.
Suck it up and take the hit like a man.

Kage2020
17-08-2006, 15:22
Yeah...but the point is that Space Marines have the Black Carapace...therefore, the Primarchs must have had the Black Carapace.
Not the best chain of logic, but then again given GW science perhaps inescapable. I, for one, would not argue that just because Space Marines have a thing that, from the descriptions is more akin to a bioplastic (/cybernetic prosthesis), that it must automatically come from the Primarchs. I cannot help but think of the concept of germline genetic engineering, look at the properties of the "zygote" in question and go "Hmmnm...". Of course, I've never been one for swalloing the 'fluff' merely because GW has written it! ;) (Not saying that anyone here is either!)

So, again, I see little reason in conceptualising the necessity of the Black Carapace on Primarchs beyond the fallacious argument above, i.e. "Marines have 'em so Primarchs have to have 'em, because Marines are created from Primarchs".

Kage

Lord Dante
17-08-2006, 15:33
For all we know tho - the Primarchs might have had them added when the Emp created them or after he found them all.

I would have thought upon finding the Primarchs he might have tweaked a few settings etc...

Emp: "you want to wear this cool new armour ive built Russ?"

Russ: "yeah, looks good!"

Emp: "im going to have to play with your bits"

Russ: "I didnt sign up for this..."

Warden
17-08-2006, 15:40
They may have been given the BC when they where discovered? it wasn't always that SM had to be preteens to recieve the internal gubbins.

Lord Dante
17-08-2006, 15:42
Humans turned into SM go through the process at a young age as old ppl generally die.

But Primarchs arnt humans and perhaps they wouldnt die in the 'upgrade' process?

Warden
18-08-2006, 11:37
OR if you read some of the older fluff and even bits and bobs about the HH youll find that Marines wheren't always Preteens when they where "Upgraded" Luthor and his Knights are one example.

ThorOdensson
18-08-2006, 11:52
I think ththe primarchs had a black carapace which to them was a natural occurence, and much like with marines the interface was installled/implanted into it when they were found allowing them to have the same control over their various suit of armor as their sub-oridinates

Overlord Krycis
18-08-2006, 12:21
Sorry for the confusion (I was very tired when I wrote the last post) I didn't mean that Primarchs have the BC "cos marines have em!".
The zygotes that all marines have in the pogenoids are derived from the zygotes found in the Primarchs.
Ergo: Primarchs MUST have had a Black Carapace as this is one of the implants grown from the progenoids...
Although I do agree Kage2020, GW's fluff department is sometimes lacking that certain something...


Other than a grammar checker and Dictionary...

Warden
18-08-2006, 12:26
Well that would imply that the BC grows from the zygote, it doesn't it is implanted under the skin.

Overlord Krycis
18-08-2006, 12:36
It doesn't grow under the skin...
It is: "grown in a tank and looks like a black sheet of plastic", if I remember the quote from Index Astartes correctly.
What does happen when it is implanted is that it "sends" nerve bundles deep into the recipient's torso, which meshes with said person's nervous system.
It also goes rock hard and gives an extra layer of protection (the others being the power armour and the interlaced rib plates).

heretics bane
18-08-2006, 13:19
and it helps him become linked with his armour,its the only way they can become "one" with the armour if ive read it correct

Warden
18-08-2006, 14:04
Yes i know how it works but from what you said the primarches already had a BC, which they couldnt as it is implanted late into the Gubbinz cycle of a Marine.

heretics bane
18-08-2006, 16:53
well nobody really knows for sure theres only one man that would know and thats the emporer and hes currently busy until he shifts his butt out of the golden throne

Overlord Krycis
18-08-2006, 18:57
The primarchs were basically the genetic blueprint of the Marines...only MUCH better.
The Black Carapace would've already been implanted into them, as they probably had all of teh other organs...How else would've Mortarion have been able to survive the poisonous atmosphere of Barbarus without his "upgrades".

rickie8437
18-08-2006, 22:27
so whats with lokens licra suit in the novels all about

rickie8437
18-08-2006, 22:29
so whats with the licra suit that loken wears in the novels

Chainsworded Codpiece
19-08-2006, 04:37
yes he loads of the things i get the impresion that he has a walk in wardrob to pick which he would wear today (what a women)

Firstly, try not to sound like you're ten years old. The era of the Primarchs is 30,000 years past our time. Definitions of "manliness" have changed to some degree.

Some of the hardest bastards alive wear violet and gold armor with fanciful little wing janglies hanging off the left shoulderplate.
That would be the Pre-Heresy Emperor's Children.

None of these beings (the Primarchs) feel that wearing luxurious clothing and having a huge wardrobe has anything to do with being male or female.

They do it because it shows they can.

Secondly, for the love of Gxd, pace yourself, and attempt to use appropriate punctuation and sentence structure. What's the rush?

In answer (I hope) to your question...
I suspect the bodysuit Loken wears is an "all-purpose garment". It keeps him from having to worry about what to wear when he's out of armor. Considering that they can be called to battle at any time, the Captains clearly want something they can shuck off instantly to get armored-up, but can still use as "among-people" clothes. Perhaps it's skin-tight enough, even, that his Black Carapace can make "contact" to his armor's interfaces through the garment...eliminating the need to even take the damned thing off in a rush situation. Just hop in the armor and GO!

rickie8437
20-08-2006, 19:20
ok thats true and sounds good but it says in the naovel that he cleaned his armour in nothing but a loin cloth !

oh and im 27 not ten not every one is as good at english than you

rick

jimbobodoll
20-08-2006, 19:35
ok thats true and sounds good but it says in the naovel that he cleaned his armour in nothing but a loin cloth !

oh and im 27 not ten not every one is as good at english than you

rick

:wtf: :eyebrows: dang...

rickie8437
20-08-2006, 19:44
lol take it you found that funny lol sorry some people dont know how to take to people

Reabe
20-08-2006, 20:10
ok thats true and sounds good but it says in the naovel that he cleaned his armour in nothing but a loin cloth !

So? He's the ultimate warrior. When he's doing millitary duty, fashion is the last thing on his mind.

VanHel
21-08-2006, 03:07
Great, now I have an image of The Ultimate Warrior charging a ring wearing power armour.

wRa1tH
22-08-2006, 05:38
i'd place my money on the "primarchs get their BC implant after linking up with the Emperor" theory...

they are genetically enhanced to be better, in almost every manner, than mere humans. but my interpretation of the BC is that it is grafted onto the marines after all the other organs are ready. thus, the same goes for the primarchs. they grew up with all the genetic enhancemens but, they'd need someone to graft the BC onto them.

it's like you have the ability to paint miniatures, but you need the brush to paint the mini. the brush is just like the BC. it allows you to 'interact' with the mini better.

just my take on this topic...

Romanus
22-08-2006, 07:22
I pesonnaly would have thought that the black carapace could be grafted into anyone, anytime. From the discription given on this forum, it sounds more of an inorganic implant rather than an organic, and while i know i've read that it could possibly suffer from mutation like other organs, that sounds more like fluff inconsistancy then anything else. Truly something like this "being plastic like" i would assume, be able to be implanted whenever it was required and also i'mm guessing that there must have been cases where the BC was damaged in battle and needed to be replaced. Anyway thats my take on the subject.

Cheers, Romanus.

wRa1tH
22-08-2006, 10:55
some what OT:
-in warrior coven, the mantis warrior marine was fighting half naked and there was no mention at all of the black carapace. it only described his tatoo...

IIRC, he still had his shoulder pads on...