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View Full Version : Dose anyone aggree that dark elfs should be able to take slave's as units



maze ironheart
16-08-2006, 21:26
Hi ive notticed that dark elves arnt able to take slaves as units. which is quite weird because of their history and it would be nice if they had slave units just like skaven do with the same rule's. Because you could use them as shields just the same as skaven some times do and it wont cost hardly any point's because their only 40 point dose any one aggree.

WarSmith7
16-08-2006, 21:48
Hi ive notticed that dark elves arnt able to take slaves as units. which is quite weird because of their history and it would be nice if they had slave units just like skaven do with the same rule's. Because you could use them as shields just the same as skaven some times do and it wont cost hardly any point's because their only 40 point dose any one aggree.


I disagree, for the same reason I removed slaves from my personal Dawi Zharr list.

What motivation can you give to force slaves to fight and die for you? How can you possible control slaves without htem turning on you can attemping to flee during the heat of battle?

You can't.

I think the only reason skaven could theoretically use salves is because they could push them down the mouth of a tunnel, effective plugging it and the slaves would have no where to go.

Even that is a far flung situation and I really don't think skaven should have them either.

TheWarSmith
16-08-2006, 21:56
With skaven, it's the way things go that when your clan gets conquered, you're made into slaves and fight for your captors. That's how it works.

Now, if you raided my lands without that pretense and said "fight or die", I'd probably find the quickest way to the right end of a gun, either from you or the enemy.

Dark elves do have slaves, they're just not fit for fighting.

WarSmith7
16-08-2006, 22:05
With skaven, it's the way things go that when your clan gets conquered, you're made into slaves and fight for your captors. That's how it works.

So, they are like spartan hellites if I remember my history.


Now, if you raided my lands without that pretense and said "fight or die", I'd probably find the quickest way to the right end of a gun, either from you or the enemy.

yup.


Dark elves do have slaves, they're just not fit for fighting.

Yup. I believe the same applies to Chaos dwarfs (save for perhaps greenskin slaves)

Arnizipal
16-08-2006, 22:21
1. Please please please mind your spelling.
2. Dark Elves used slaves in warfare on only 1 occasion. And it was a last ditch effort as well. I don't think Dark Elves find slaves reliable enough to use them on a regular basis.

swordwind
16-08-2006, 23:09
Imagine your a Dark Elf slave. Your home has been burnt to the ground by them. You entire family have been butchered by them. The village you grew up in has been slaughtered and razed to the ground. You've been clapped in irons and throw into a ships cargohold like an animal. You arrive in Nagaroth and are beaten and whipped whilst you work your hands raw doing menial labour 20 hours a day. Then one of them thrusts a sword into your hands and tell you to go fight that army of your countrymen. Are you gonna do what he says? Or stick that sword right in his pointey eared face?

MadJackMcJack
16-08-2006, 23:17
It would end up like that scene from Braveheart where the Irish defect.It would just turn around and bite the Elves in the ****.

The Warlord
16-08-2006, 23:24
Probably are you not going to stick the sword in his face. I believe that:"

Your home has been burnt to the ground by them. You entire family have been butchered by them. The village you grew up in has been slaughtered and razed to the ground. You've been clapped in irons and throw into a ships cargo hold like an animal. You arrive in Nagaroth and are beaten and whipped whilst you work your hands raw doing menial labour 20 hours a day"

Would probably break the will of most people and drugs and promises of reward can be inspirational. I think that the absence of slaves on the battle field is not the risk of them deserting but rather economics. Putting slaves on a battlefield is stupid, when they are fighting and dieing they are not working so it would hurt the slave labour dependent Dark Elf economy like hell.

Shimmergloom
17-08-2006, 00:23
Dark elves use to have slaves in their army list. And their slaves were drugged and herded towards the enemy to wear them down.

So the slaves did not have the sense to attack their captors.

The main reason that slaves were removed is because dark elves are an elite army, not a horde army.

Mad Makz
17-08-2006, 03:20
If you do want to have slaves, you can simply use Dogs of War. A unit of duelists with naught but hand weapons would be perfectly suitable in terms of rules. They are all in a drug induced haze so fight in a loose formation. Should work fine, and it's perfectly legal rules wise.

Alternatively if you want a bit more bite you could take some Norse Berserkers as slaves. Frenzied, ranked, model them up so that they are equipped with mining tools and the like, and you have another perfectly viable slave unit.

Costs a rare slot, but if you want it for 'theme' reasons then that should not matter significantly

DeathMasterSnikch
17-08-2006, 03:46
Hi ive notticed that dark elves arnt able to take slaves as units. which is quite weird because of their history and it would be nice if they had slave units just like skaven do with the same rule's. Because you could use them as shields just the same as skaven some times do and it wont cost hardly any point's because their only 40 point dose any one aggree.

Skaven use slaves from their own race. Elves wouldn't. Skaven slaves can't exactly revolt against their captors, I mean what happens then? Enemy army wouldn't exactly offer them asylum would they now :rolleyes: Skaven slaves have no choice, they fight and may live and eventualy be incorporated back into a clan or they die.

Metafizikal
17-08-2006, 04:52
I don't think Dark Elves find slaves reliable enough to use them on a regular basis.

Oh yes, because DE would never use anything reliable... thatd be 'stupid' :rolleyes:


I always liked the norse berzerkers idea

Alathir
17-08-2006, 05:33
yeah... khemri should get slave units too.

snurl
17-08-2006, 07:19
Sure, why not?
Orcs should be able to take slaves as well.

How about a special leadership test for slave units, where they may change sides, believing their rescue immenent, if the test is failed?

Neknoh
17-08-2006, 08:31
Let's put it like this.

A.
You have five thousand dollars
You end up in a street brawl where your life is at stake
You give those five thousand dollars to your attackers so that you can get the jump on them
You attack your attackers right after they've ripped the five thousand dollars to shreds.

B.
Or, you have five thousand dollars
You get in a streetbrawl where your life is at stake
You try to get away unscathed from said streetbrawl and actually manages to do so
You get home and buy very nasty weapons for those five thousand dollars
You go back to the gang you were in a streetbrawl with
You maim them with your new weapons
You take their money
You now have six thousand dollars AND brand spanking new weapons


Dark Elf Nobillity use slaves as a currency just as much as they use Gold.

maze ironheart
17-08-2006, 10:59
I just thought that dark elfs should be able to take slaves just like skaven do. Also skaven don't just enslave their own race they some times enslave goblins i do know that dark elfs use slaves as currency.

Ps- dose any one know how to delete threads

snurl
17-08-2006, 11:18
Yes, it would be unwise of the DE to use their currency in a fight,
But wouldn't it be nice if they could if they wanted to.

Cenyu
17-08-2006, 11:50
In martial terms slaves are too unreliable to be fielded among a Druchii throng.

In economical terms they are too valuable to be cannon fodder on the battlefield (They serve as currency, sacrifice, workers).



Dark Elves are an elite army - I would like them a lot less if their army list included slaves. Druchii are the masters of war, why soil their prowess by including slave units? Meh.

scavenseer
17-08-2006, 11:56
They might take slaves in order to sacrifice them in front of the enemy to instill fear and to fill the caulron up when its running low.:mad:

J6mnik
17-08-2006, 12:03
They might take slaves in order to sacrifice them in front of the enemy to instill fear and to fill the caulron up when its running low.:mad:

Some tme ago was article in CJ about using slaves in DE army. There was description of these troops, together with Slave Mistress Kharbala.
Some rules were interessing, like "Feeding Cold ones..." or sacrificing slaves in front of army banner...
Someone has this rules, in .pdf file maybe?

Sir_Turalyon
17-08-2006, 12:31
No, No, No and No. Dark Elves use slaves when fighting full-scale wars against High Elves, and make contact with other races when they are on slaving expeditions. If there was a specific army list for DE force invading Ultharan, it should include slave units. Armybook list is "generic" list that any warhammer army has chance of meeting and fighting - read "a corsair raid"; this army is gathering slaves, not wasting them.

Unless it's a specific army list or unit with "may be fielded only against High Elves" rule, there should be no slaves in druchii army. Never ever.

Venkh
17-08-2006, 15:35
Fighting for the Witch King is a huge privelige, not something to be awarded to a mere slave. Warfare weeds out the weaker members of society and allows the most rutheless and brutal to rise to their natural position. Cowering behind slaves would deprive many warriors of kills on the battlefield.

I dont want to see any slaves in my army thanks. It would be like taking a beautiful woman and sticking a great big dong on her. (or adding hip hop influences to rock music)

Metafizikal
17-08-2006, 18:19
theres a fluff story in the army book where they use slaves... you cant say its unfluffy...

Rork
17-08-2006, 18:22
theres a fluff story in the army book where they use slaves... you cant say its unfluffy...

Which misrepresents the story entirely. Lord Yeurl sacrifices the slaves in the middle of the battlefield (the slaves were not there to fight) to deny the Brettonians their mobility due to all the corpses.

Dark Elves are too arrogant to entrust mere slaves with any part of their battleplan - slaves are for working to death, not for potentially losing a battle with.

maze ironheart
17-08-2006, 21:04
Every one has made a good point i only wrote this idea because every one on warseer who plays dark elfs say they get shot to bits by Dwarfs,Skaven most armys that have strength 4 hit war machines and weapons. I fought that cos skaven have slaves to protect them from shooting and they have them in fluff story that dark elfs could do the same.

DeathMasterSnikch
17-08-2006, 21:36
Every one has made a good point i only wrote this idea because every one on warseer who plays dark elfs say they get shot to bits by Dwarfs,Skaven most armys that have strength 4 hit war machines and weapons. I fought that cos skaven have slaves to protect them from shooting and they have them in fluff story that dark elfs could do the same.

Short and simple...

:wtf:

Neknoh
17-08-2006, 22:58
Well, once aggain, the analogy.

You have a fistfull of sand
You get attacked by a big and bad bloke

Do you either a.

Stuff the sand down your pocket, knowing you'll be able to trade it for lots of stuff when you get home so that you can get back at this dude and completely whipe the floor clean using his smacked in face and five thousand more of your friends, all armed with various weapons.

Or B.

Throw the sand in his eyes and run away/kick him in the nutts.


Yes, mr. Greyseer at the back

"Clearly, B, stupid man-manthing!, I could even blow his head off, even if that'd mean me loosing the sand"

And you, mr Druchii General in the third row?

"The filthy and weakling skaven is wrong, clearly, alternative A is the best one, I could even grind the big bloke down to more sand when I get home and sell him for even more warriors at my side, which would allow me to take on even bigger dudes, grinding them down, buying more, and MORE, AND MORE.... MUAHAHAHAAAA!!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Err... I think we have understood your point.

So, dear viewers, this was it for todays "Slaves, and how you use them", see us aggain, next week on Slave-channel, the only channel that brings YOU the latest news on slaves, and the latest vids from the Witch Elves personal stash!

Khaane
18-08-2006, 02:54
Dark elves have been know to use slaves in war, yes the fluff in the DE book does describe a slave raid where the slaves were sacrificed, but there are other stories where they have been used. Remember DEs do not just have slaves from other races, those DE that upset the Witch King in anyway have been sent into slavery. And don't forget in the Darkblade story a regiment of Naggor slaves were used in a decoy attack.

I would say that if you are playing a game in a scinario that would be fitting to use slaves then you should be free to use them, as stated earlier in the thread using DOW duelists would be a good place to find basic rules, or a basic spearman regiment if using captured DEs.

chaos0xomega
18-08-2006, 06:17
IMO I think there should be slaves in the DE army list(perhaps as a free unit, you get one for every Warrior regiment you have, there statline/special rules however prevent them from being able to kill anything but (MAYBE!) a gnoblar in combat), think kind of like the Skaven's slaves in practice, with no other purpose to tie up the enemy(like a speedbump unit). Also, maybe throw in a specail rule, "Choked with Corpses" that every slave regiment that is destroyed becomes terrain and the like to slow your enemy, Yuerl style! Also, DE should be able to open fire on their own units.

For a fluffy explanation of this, these slaves could simply be slaves that have grown too old, or are too sick or weak to work, and as such, instead of just killing them on the spot, they get drugged up, shackled to eachother and forced to fight/ be a distraction/ screw over the DE opponents. Makes perfect sense.

sulla
18-08-2006, 06:43
I couldn't care one way or another if there were slaves in the DE list. i wouldn't be using them so it wouldn't bother me if they were in the list or not.

I'd far rather see bound daemons in the list... something really dangerous to use... maybe something that can get free if the summoning sorceress gets wounded... something that can rampage through both armies lines if it gets out of control. Bound daemons would illustrate the difference between how humans interact with daemons and how the arrogant druchii do...

Krusk
18-08-2006, 07:33
I don't think a Dark Elf force would use such a passive tactic when fighting someone. They would surely use terrain to advantage, but the way I see it, the kind of mobile warfare they use would preclude something like using slaves as meat shields. Orcs and Skaven have lumbering hordes of gunfodder protecting more valuable units. Elves do not.

vampires are cool!
18-08-2006, 08:46
i think they should have slaves as a core - make them similar to skaven slaves in stats, but have a special character called a slave master in the army [you can only have one unit of slaves for every slave master there is]

WarSmith7
18-08-2006, 10:39
i think they should have slaves as a core - make them similar to skaven slaves in stats, but have a special character called a slave master in the army [you can only have one unit of slaves for every slave master there is]

The beastmasters handle the slaves, adding a slave master would be redundant.

maze ironheart
18-08-2006, 11:17
That was the exact point of writting this thread to see if any one aggread with me about dark elfs haveing slaves Also its corsairs that capture slaves so one of them would handle the slaves.

maze ironheart
22-08-2006, 10:27
If dark elfs where able to take slaves in the new edition it could be like the skaven do they cost 40 points for the unit the rules could be they don't cause panic in other units when they run.

Voltaire
22-08-2006, 10:29
Congrats on the double post, but slaves detract from the elite nature of the DE. Slaves are given to Khaine, not the battlefield. The only ay they should be able to be used is paying points for an option to have them as some sort of terrain piece (cf the fluff in the book of letting them go and shooting them to overcome the Bretonnians)

Giladis
22-08-2006, 11:25
Enchanted item:
Field of Slaves 50 pts
Choose an area on the battlefield 6x4 inches that is not in oponents deplyment zone. That area now counts as dificult terain and instils terror in enemy troops.

DeathMasterSnikch
22-08-2006, 17:08
That was the exact point of writting this thread to see if any one aggread with me about dark elfs haveing slaves Also its corsairs that capture slaves so one of them would handle the slaves.

I think the mighty corsairs are above this job. Do you get a chef to deliver your pizza?


If dark elfs where able to take slaves in the new edition it could be like the skaven do they cost 40 points for the unit the rules could be they don't cause panic in other units when they run.

But thats like saying every army can just have a unit from another army and don't say 'i's fluffy' 'cos It isn't fluffy, it's trying to turn an army that requires tactics into one that can just hold enemies up with cheap stuff. I suppose you will want all the slave rules too? Expendable etc so they arn't causing panic?


Congrats on the double post, but slaves detract from the elite nature of the DE. Slaves are given to Khaine, not the battlefield. The only ay they should be able to be used is paying points for an option to have them as some sort of terrain piece (cf the fluff in the book of letting them go and shooting them to overcome the Bretonnians)

^ Agreed, although I see no point in having them at all. Slaves don't fit in the army and terrain pieces will be too complicated. What's the point in having a terrain piece that will both costs above 18 minimum and be hard to balance. i just hate the idea in general.

chaos0xomega
23-08-2006, 02:27
Well, what I am doing is using the rules for the cursed company, making Richter or whatever(the cursed company leader) and modelling him as a slave/beastmaster, and then taking a bunch of random models to represent the slaves/skellies. And then the fact that the regiment grows whenever it kills a single wound model represents the slaver capturing more guys.

Eldacar
23-08-2006, 03:42
If you people want to use slaves so much, then design a terrain feature that looks like a pile of slave corpses. There you go, slaves!

Other than that, no, no and no.

chaos0xomega
23-08-2006, 05:58
Or just use Cursed Company rules...

DeathMasterSnikch
23-08-2006, 06:52
Or just use Cursed Company rules...

fear causing, psychology ignoring, 5+ save slaves... Why are so many people in favour of slaves? Has anyone even got a decent reason.

Refardeon
23-08-2006, 08:44
I use a unit of Goblins with a Beasthandler for my Karond Kar/Beastmaster themed Darkelf army, bought as Halflings with bows from DoW.

I think this is the best use of DoW in Warhammer, filling gaps in fluffy armies rather then fielding DoW units to fill'in gaps instantly implented as weaknesses in the army list ( like Asarnil on his dragon in dwarf or cannons in chaos armys:( ).

It is also a better way then altering the original armylists of GW only by simply adding more options without adding more penalties too. If you want a rule like "expandable" make them more costly, about 1-2 points per model ( or even more for nasty things like ogre kingdom units:rolleyes: )

Revlid
23-08-2006, 09:07
As far as I'm aware it's only the Cult of Slaanesh that actually summons daemons for battle... The only daemon I could see in a regular Dark Elf army would be Malekith's pet Keeper of Secrets.

I disagree with Slaves in a Druchii army, and agree time and again with Neknoh. The only way I could see them appearing on the battlefield would be in Giladis' magic item, or in a Cauldron of Blood.

maze ironheart
23-08-2006, 10:14
If it was by magic they could be evil spirits that where sacrificed to the couldron and they cause fear in enemy units. I am still trying to decide if i should play as orcs and goblins or dark elfs.

WarSmith7
23-08-2006, 16:16
If it was by magic they could be evil spirits that where sacrificed to the couldron and they cause fear in enemy units. I am still trying to decide if i should play as orcs and goblins or dark elfs.

O&G, that way you can have your slaves, except that they are not called slaves, they are called goblins instead....

maze ironheart
25-08-2006, 20:33
It would be quite good if chaos had to summon their daemons in the magic phase unless they had a greater daemon or daemon prince on the field that binds their spirits to the realm of mortals.