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View Full Version : Jes Goodwin eldar sculpts vs new ones?



Promethius
17-08-2006, 10:29
I have been going through my collection of Jes Goodwin aspect warrior sculpts these last few days, dusting off my eldar army after the inspiration of the new book. Looking at them, and comparing them to the newer eldar sculpts visible on the eldar threads in the rumour section, and I can't help but wonder why they were ever replaced. Now, some old models from various ranges have had well-deserved resculpts (the hideous 2nd ed zoanthrope, for example), but these eldar are timeless. Out of all of the resculpts since 2nd ed, the swooping hawks are the only ones I can really see a difference with. The fire dragons are almost identical, the scorpions and banshees have benefitted from a little more posability, and the dire avengers have become plastic (a good thing). The warp spiders haven't changed at all. Why change?

Does anyone else think the same?

Tarquinn
17-08-2006, 10:53
I do.

One of the reasons for that I can think about is that if they would simply re-release the 2nd Ed. ones, they would indirectly admit that the current, 3rd Ed. ones were crap.

Damepan
17-08-2006, 10:54
First of all, forgive my english.
Well, Jes Goodwin is a genius.
At the time he touched the eldar, he settled a very high standar that has become unpaired.
This is the main reason you can play with minis sculpted 20 years ago, and not only they donīt look old and out of place, they still got style and glamour, and even seem advanced designs.
But the deep redesign (really need it) of the Codex eldar is a chance too good to let it pass without touching the minis...but I agree with you that no matter how good are the new sculpts, some older designs never will be improved, in any sense (maybe just because we have loved so much time these little metal pieces).
So...pick what you like the most of every edition, and display a beatiful army of all the ages.

muskrat
17-08-2006, 10:55
Warp spiders weren't resculpted, that's why.

Scorps, imo, they made to look WAY too much like their Phoenix Lord- which is bad. Before, they were swift death killy guys- now they look like Eldar Terminators.

ashc
17-08-2006, 10:56
Im pretty unimpressed with what i have seen of the eldar redo in general to be honest; i agree especially on the Aspect side, that Jes's earlier sculpts are, for me, better.

Ash

jedipenguin
17-08-2006, 11:05
Because new models leads to 'ooh, new and shiney' syndrome which makes even the most rational of collectors part with their hard earned dosh.

Eidolon
17-08-2006, 11:16
I do.

One of the reasons for that I can think about is that if they would simply re-release the 2nd Ed. ones, they would indirectly admit that the current, 3rd Ed. ones were crap.

The fact that they are going back to the roots is indication enough of what GW thinks of the 3rd ed eldar. As for the (unecessary for some) redesign of the aspects for 4th, eldar fans get many new shiny models to choose from, GW makes more money, vets are free to use their old miniatures instead.
What's not to like?

Promethius
17-08-2006, 16:06
Thing is, I do agree with some of the other eldar resculpts, for example I love the new warwalkers, and the wraithlord is fantastic. It is simply the aspects - GW are trying to remodel perfection.

DaGork
17-08-2006, 17:36
I'd have to say that the new Eldar aspect warrior sculpts are for those people who weren't into the hobby in 2nd edition (or not into eldar in 2nd edition).

There are only so any 2nd edition models and not everybody can get thier hands on them. These resculpts are for the benefit of the newer gamers. Plus they offer more posability than 2nd edition, which is always a good thing.

Plus, what do you think people's opinion of GW would be if they simply rereleased the old sculpts? There are already a lot of people ready to jump down GW's throat for every little think they do. People would be screaming that GW are a bunch of lazy good-for-nothings that can't even be bothered to make new models for thier new army.

And no one wants that to happen.

Kamin_Majere
17-08-2006, 18:28
I like the old RT aspects and the newest ones. The 3rd edition ones just kinda were meh(except the dark reapers, the 3rd edition ones were my favorite of the 3 versions so far).

The only sculpt i never liked and still dont like are the howling banshees. I've just never liked the models. All 3 versions are fine, i just never could like them i guess. I just hate models prancing on their toes. I've still yet to find something i can use instead:(

But Jes will always be the eldar model God, he pretty much designed the look of the entire race and it will always follow his rule

Rip
17-08-2006, 18:58
The 3rd edition Aspect Warriors were mostly crap.

Everybody seems to wonder why the new Scorpions aren't darting around. Well, they wear some of the heaviest armour in the army, plus it's the Banshees do all that leaping about etc. If the Scorpions did that too, what difference would there be between Banshees and Scorpions? The Scorpions have for me always seemed more quietly menacing than the over-the-top shrieking of the Banshees.

The Guardians were pretty much perfected in 3rd Edition so I'm glad they haven't been redone. Same with the Falcon.

Bombot
17-08-2006, 19:04
Oh yeah, the original Aspect Warriors were great models. One of the reasons I bought a few recently - I could get superior models from eBay for way below the new price.

The GW 'need' to redo models produces some hiliriously bad results sometimes. Like the second run of Tyranid Warriors :wtf:

Baneboss
17-08-2006, 19:20
Why everyone seems to not like 3rd edition DRs? For me they were ones of the best in our current (yet) Eldar line. Except ofcourse beautiful warlocks models. I like all of them.

Old DRs dont appeal to me that much. Newest ones with bug forehead are propably the worst.

Rip
17-08-2006, 21:06
The 3rd edition Reapers looked far too human. They just looked bandy and inoffensive.

Deadite
17-08-2006, 21:26
Well, I like the new models. Sure, they look more like their 2nd edition bretheren, but they've been bulked up to match the style of the awesome 3rd edition guardians.
I mean, I place my 2nd edition scorpions next to a 3rd edition guardian and the scorpion just looks weedy... and is prancing around too much... They're still better than 3rd edition striking bunnies. But I gotta go with something more aesthetically pleasing to me. The new scorpions are slightly bulkier, more skulkier and sly... all of these please me.
So, I'll be looking to sell off my 2nd edition (mostly 2nd hand) stuff to go towards the purchase of 4th edition models/army box.

erickhouse1
28-08-2006, 02:45
i like all the new models except the banshees. the 3rd ed were fine they needed to redo the warp spiders!!!! they look like crap. i would feild some but they just look so bad that i cant so im going with hawks.

unclejimbo827
28-08-2006, 03:23
The Jes Goodwin sculpts are some of the most overrated minatures ever, IMO. They're superior to the 3rd ed. minis, sure, but that really doesn't mean much. Of course, I'm not a fan of the Eldar range.

IJW
28-08-2006, 04:17
The GW 'need' to redo models produces some hiliriously bad results sometimes. Like the second run of Tyranid Warriors :wtf:
The second run of Tyranid Warriors (the first plastic ones originally for Advanced Space Crusade) were great models! Now, if you mean the third run of Warriors that came out after the plastics, I'd have to agree.

For reference, the first run were little metal ones from RT-era that look a bit like current gaunts...

Anyway, back on topic - I really like the older models and the about-to-be-released ones. About the only '3rd ed' one I like is the Dark Reaper exarch.

Outlaw289
28-08-2006, 05:30
The Jew Goodwin.


:angel: Made me lol :D

devolutionary
28-08-2006, 05:44
The 2nd Ed models were nice, I'll concede that. They were glorious for the time, and many elements of them far surpassed the 3rd Ed models (DR helmets, Scorpions in general, etc...)

HOWEVER, 4th Ed, while it is more in line with 2nd Ed, looks one hell of a lot cleaner. The lines are much crisper, the poses much more fluid and Eldarish. The helmets are no longer generically shaped (they all looked rather cone-headish) but now have much greater variety in the curves and shape. The little things are what make the models. I compare the 2nd Ed FD Exarch and the new one... yeah, new one wins. I've always liked Eldar, always viewed them as how Elves should be. 4th Ed gives me the models that I can truly appreciate to make the force though.

That, and the new DAs are freaking sweeeeeeeeeeeeet.

Sildani
28-08-2006, 13:28
New Wraithlord compared to old. All that needs to be said.

Rich 123
28-08-2006, 14:44
Funny really as since I first saw the new Wraithlord I thought it looked far to big and bulky, as well as following current GW tradition for excess bling.

I would much rather have the old Jes Goodwin one, not because its a JG sulpt but just because the lines are cleaner. However the new warwalker is brillaint, much more what I think one should be like - its taken on an aesthetic much like the Falcons but in walker form.

I'm tempted with the idea of sitting down with the old wraithlord (from back when the Eldar had dreadnoughts ;)) and reposing it properly to make it an interesting dynamic model - as that is the only problem with it, its plain pose.

THe new aspects are good as they are an evolution of the 2nd edition ones with more mdoern aspects and scale with more dynamic poses, fitting of the aspect. The Dark Reapers heads look a bit odd (but that is fitting with the 2nd edition sculpts too, hehe). The eldar have had a similar change like the Tyranids (think of the new tyrant, it has alot of the flavour of the classic Jes Goodwin sculpt but just modernised and with more detailing as befits the newer casting techniques).

/Rant over. Just the new wraithlord gets under my skin - Im sure Im going to be bombarded by people saying how Im stupid and dont know what a good mini looks like, but thats life :)
Rich

Xander-K
28-08-2006, 15:03
The old sculpts were pretty good, although the scorpions models had really terrible looking helmets, I don't think the new scorpions look anything like "eldar terminators" as someone put it, they have quite a small physique/not bulky at all.

The exarch looks like predator, but how is that a bad thing? Kahadras (sp) the previous phoenix lord looked just like this and he was a great model to paint. Its a big shame they haven't re-done the spiders, they look about as lively as necron warriors as it stands so this will put people off fielding them.

I can't tell how the new Reaper models look, but the old ones were simply fantastic, they don't look much different, new Dire avengers are superb as are the fire dragons.. one thing I can say about the new models is their poses certainly make them seem more alive than before, which is always good.

t-tauri
28-08-2006, 15:25
The second run of Tyranid Warriors (the first plastic ones originally for Advanced Space Crusade) were great models! Now, if you mean the third run of Warriors that came out after the plastics, I'd have to agree.

For reference, the first run were little metal ones from RT-era that look a bit like current gaunts...
That's because they were termagants. (Note the lack of the "U"). At that time the nids had all sorts of greeblies in the army lists-zoats, squigs, min controlled squads of anything. The first plastic warriors were in Advanced Space Crusade and Tyranid attack. The metals that followed them are okay, just let down by the then current "coco the clown" eavy-metal scheme.

The Goodwin Aspects are still some of the best sculpts sold by GW. I'd agree it's a shame that the Warp Spiders haven't had a few new sculpts done. Some crouching or clinging to a wall would be fantastic and a bit more spidery.

IJW
28-08-2006, 16:33
That's because they were termagants. (Note the lack of the "U"). At that time the nids had all sorts of greeblies in the army lists-zoats, squigs, min controlled squads of anything. The first plastic warriors were in Advanced Space Crusade and Tyranid attack. The metals that followed them are okay, just let down by the then current "coco the clown" eavy-metal scheme.
At the risk of getting into an argument about semantics, the original models were Tyranids (with Intelligence 10), and were even referred to as Tyranid Warriors in the RT rulebook. The only slave race with rules or names at the time were Zoats, who made up at least half of any force. 'Termagants' as such didn't exist.

Then four years later in WD145 the Tyranids were redone almost from scratch - the old models becoming 'just' hunter-slayers with not much intelligence - being replaced as the 'main' Tyranid race by the new upright plastic models. This army list introduced most of the extras such as screamer-killers/Carnifexes, squig swarms, grabber-slashers and mind-controlled slaves. Oh, and Genestealers were revealed as being the advance troops of the Tyranids instead of just random monsters.

Even later (1993 codex?), hunter slayers were renamed Termagants, around the time that Zoats were phased out.

To keep it vaguely on-topic, how many people still rate the old Screamer Killer model as sculpted by JG?


The Goodwin Aspects are still some of the best sculpts sold by GW. I'd agree it's a shame that the Warp Spiders haven't had a few new sculpts done. Some crouching or clinging to a wall would be fantastic and a bit more spidery.
Now that is a neat idea!

Kahadras
28-08-2006, 16:50
The exarch looks like predator, but how is that a bad thing? Kahadras (sp) the previous phoenix lord looked just like this

As much as I'd like to be a Phoenix Lord I'm not. I think the correct spelling is Karandras. :p

Kahadras

t-tauri
28-08-2006, 16:55
At the risk of getting into an argument about semantics, the original models were Tyranids (with Intelligence 10), and were even referred to as Tyranid Warriors in the RT rulebook. The only slave race with rules or names at the time were Zoats, who made up at least half of any force. 'Termagants' as such didn't exist.
The one in the RT book is a concept which is Tyranid Warrior size. It's an extremely rare figure-only a couple exist outside of GW-see the attachment. The hunter slayers/termagants are the little ones which were released post RT and are the ones you refer to as the first Tyranid warriors.

Chem-Dog
28-08-2006, 20:33
I'm a big fan of the original Eldar models, the second load (the 3rd edition ones) were something of a dissapointment, I feel that they were an exception to the usual rule of newer models being better than the older ones, these brand new eldar are generally as good as the originals and some are better (namely the Rangers).

Outlaw289
28-08-2006, 21:16
How does everyone know what the new guys look like? I've never seen this pictures :(

t-tauri
28-08-2006, 21:20
How does everyone know what the new guys look like? I've never seen this pictures :(Get thee to the rumour roundup (http://www.warseer.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=83).

Rip
28-08-2006, 21:29
In general the 2nd Ed models whupped the 3rd Ed models' arses, with the exception of the Guardians.

The 2nd Ed Dark Reapers are still my favourites and will be the models chosen for my army.

silverstu
28-08-2006, 23:04
I have to say the new aspects are a big improvement on the 3ed models- but i still prefer Jes' 2ed classics, the 3ed hawks are rather fine though. Interestingly I love the new dire avengers, war walker and wraithlord- all scuplted by jes, and the new exarchs and farseers look excellent too[jes again?]. My other 40k army is nids- the majority of which is cool plastic kits sculped by... -Jes.
I just hope he never gets tired of nids and eldar!
Having said that the new rangers beat the ass off the old ones[which were cool in thier day] and they were done by martin Footit. The other designer I'd like to see tackle these ranges is Brian Nelson- his work is stunning too.

luchog
29-08-2006, 00:43
In general the 2nd Ed models whupped the 3rd Ed models' arses, with the exception of the Guardians.

The 2nd Ed Dark Reapers are still my favourites and will be the models chosen for my army.

In the process of building a large Harlequin force, I've been picking up a bunch of the old models on eBay. They are still among my favorites of all the Eldar models and hold up well against even the newest scultps for the CE.
I've heard the Death Jester has a new scultp, but I haven't seen it yet.

Anathema
29-08-2006, 10:18
Looks like I'm alone in this, but I own a mix of 2nd and 3rd ed. aspects and I think that with exception of the Scorpions the 3rd ed models are far superior. Comparing Fire Dragons, 2nd ed ones are less detailed and have worse heads, the 3rd ed banshees look much more detailed and deadly, Reapers don't have stupid heads and the Hawks are just so much cleaner and dynamic. The hybrid Avengers which aren't brilliant are still miles better than the 1-pose 2nd ed ones. IMO there's a fair bit of rose-tinting going on. thats why I'm probably not going to be buying any of the new Aspects except the Scorpions. They may be a bit cleaner but they still reek of 2nd ed styling which puts me off big time.

Kriegsherr
29-08-2006, 10:32
Is it only me that thinks the new models are far superior to the 2nd ed ones? (well most of them, the banshees are still to 2nd ed for my liking).

The scorps especially caught my eyes, now they look more bulky and dangerous than ever before, something I really like to see on 3+ S4 minis no matter how advanced the race they belong to is.
And the old firedragons never impressed me. 2nd and 3rd ones were just meh to my eyes. The new ones blew me away.
All of them, with the exception of the banshees maybe, have better poses, look more beefy and more appealing to my eyes.

I don't want to say the Godwin sculpts weren't far superior of everything else when they came out, or that they look bad compared to newer minis. Not at all. But the eldar style has changed a small bit in the last few years, GW went away from the completly round "orb" "magical" style and integrated some more technological and square elements into the eldar look (one of the reasons I finally got interested into the eldar). So while the old sculpts still are very good, the new ones just fit better into the new eldar look IMHO.

Now the plastic DA just beat the old lead avengers in an instant. Posabilety, better look, bigger guns, cooler armour, more exarch options.

Giltharin
29-08-2006, 11:14
I have to say I never liked 3d ed Banshees, Dragons and Scorpions. I loved ans till love 2d ed aspects but the new models are superior: they have the feeling of 2d ed but at the same time are a big improvement (detail, posability...). Very good job JG and GW.
Giltharin

Dr Death
10-11-2006, 11:46
Until this current edition i've not really been an eldar player (i'm still not officially one now, but that may very well change) so this is rather an outsiders veiwpoint. People seem to be talking about 2nd edition as if that was the only eldar range Jes did but am i mistaken for thinking that he had been brought out of retirement for this 4th ed range?

Over all i wouldnt say you can generalise so heavily to say that 3rd edition brought universal dissapointment for the Eldar or indeed that whatever comes out for 4th ed is an instant improovement on it. Personally i find the new banshee's helmets to be a terrible dissapointment after the arching curves of the 3rd ed models (though i am very pleased that proportion between head and body has been restored) and the same i have to say is true of the dark reapers- i far prefered the 3rd ed models helms to the vaguely phallic symbol of 2nd ed or the elongated forhead of the new models.

The fire dragons are another dissapointment- 3rd edition brought in wonderfully arcane armour shapes which emphesised their name of 'dragons' and while the new range has some incredable poses (the exarch with fire pike is an absolute classic) ultimately they look too much like red painted guardians for my tastes.

The scorpions have had a bit of a rough ride because the 2nd edition models were classics but ultimately their age has been their downfall and so i consider the 3rd ed models a required step to come to the current range which despite rather oddly flat heads is still (technically) the best range so far, combining the looks of the 2nd ed models with the poses of the 3rd.

Over all i've been quite incredably impressed by the new eldar range and i honestly beleive that some of the models from it (not nessercarily the aspect warriors but the Farseers, Harlequins, war walker and wraithlord to name but a few) will go on to become absolute classics, featured in rulebooks 10 years hence.

Dr Death

Gimp
10-11-2006, 16:06
I think Jes Goodwins aspect models are pretty cool for there time. But the new wraith lord is pretty cool to.

TCUTTER
10-11-2006, 16:54
jes is very much the god of 40k in terms of sculpting, every model he touchs is impressive, only now thats like 2 a year which blows. lets face it he made the eldar desirable, and the 3rd ed space marines