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TenTailedCat
20-06-2005, 21:29
Sorry if this is common knowledge, but what exactly happens when Necrons 'fade out'? Specifically i'm interested in the one's that got trampled by a Dreadnough, smashed by a power fist, chopped up by an Avatar of Khaine or whatever and failed their WBB roll, Are they still repaired when they vanish?

I was under the impression that it's actually impossible to completely destroy a Necron, which seems kind of... Stupid. To say the least.

malika
20-06-2005, 21:36
They get teleported away and then fixed, they probably must have billions of extra spare parts in those pyramids

x-esiv-4c
21-06-2005, 04:10
An old WD mentions an Ad-mech discovery of necron-remains. Apparently the "corpse" would just slowly sublimate and therefore leaving the investigation crew with nothing.

Iracundus
21-06-2005, 05:46
Read that Deathwatch story in the Necron Codex. The Necron remains are teleported back to a tomb complex to be repaired. However, the description of the mangled remains (missing limbs etc.) teleporting back indicates not every shred of mass is recovered so theoretically a sufficiently powerful weapon could have a chance of obliterating a Necron to the point where nothing remains to teleport back.

Wiseman
21-06-2005, 06:06
so technically it would be possible to destroy all necrons to the point of there not being enough parts to put any back together, but it would take to long to bother with.

TenTailedCat
21-06-2005, 09:15
So one can assume that a Necron victory is inevitable, if totally destroying even one Necron would take the combined fire power of a few tanks then I don't see what hope the Imperium (or any other race) actually has. Would launching Exterminatus on a Tomb World **** them over? Without the world and base would they have anywhere to teleport to?

Skander
21-06-2005, 09:36
Not really. (the inevitable necron victory, I mean)
Itīs really difficult to definitively destroy them, but you have to think that they canīt replenish their files. Theyīre not just mechanical bodies, a Necrontyr mind is needed. And since all Necrontyr are dead long ago... The only troop type they can replenish are pariahs, who are human based. But on the other way pariahs donīt benefit from WBB...

TenTailedCat
21-06-2005, 09:44
Oh I suppose you're right, I never really though of the finite numbers they can muster...
Didn't the Necrontyr inhabit a single world before getting enslaved by the C'tan? They can't have a great deal of troops in that case...

malika
21-06-2005, 10:08
No...they fought big wars against the Old Ones before they got their C'tan, they got space travel etc which meant they must have colonized other worlds too...

Which makes me think, if they did get so advanced, why didnt they just migrate to another world which wouldnt have a star that would kill them?

Typheron
21-06-2005, 10:14
well would you want to leave your home behind?


they probably had colonies and stuff out there too but the home world of a species is an important place, look at terra for example.

malika
21-06-2005, 10:44
Did the ones on the colonies die on a young age too?

The Necrontyr wanted to become older so bad...why wouldnt they just migrate to the colonies?

What about Terra? If terra was a hostile planet which would kill us at the age of 20 and we could live on Mars and become 500 many would go to Mars I guess

gunhed
21-06-2005, 14:35
An old WD mentions an Ad-mech discovery of necron-remains

Isn't that the story where a Magos hypothesises about HOW they manage to fade-out when they are so badly damaged?

I think he eventually theorised that the main CPU (or necron equivilent) on the tomb world is always trying to teleport them back, but fully functioning necrons are able to over ride the teleport beam somehow.

x-esiv-4c
21-06-2005, 14:40
No, the article featured the limited release of the "Necron table" which featured a decomposed necron body and a scarab ( I think ) and a picture of the model was used for narration purposes.

Talkie Toaster
21-06-2005, 16:52
Did the ones on the colonies die on a young age too?

The Necrontyr wanted to become older so bad...why wouldnt they just migrate to the colonies?

What about Terra? If terra was a hostile planet which would kill us at the age of 20 and we could live on Mars and become 500 many would go to Mars I guess
After the 1st war, IIRC the Old Ones just kept the Necrontyr stuck in their home system, so that would account for the slightly unwise takeup of the 'Live forever' promise. On the bright side, it does limit the number of Necrons to a few tens of billions (assuming even infants were converted).

Skander
22-06-2005, 08:41
The CīTan wouldnīt be so stupid, I supposse, to drain dry a source of minions so fast... What I imagine is something like "weīll give you your shiny new body when you reach 15 years". Obviously, the Slaan could not let this to continue and somehow attacked and finished the mortal necrontyr, ending the necron production. But how many were created before such an attack is somethig we can only speculate...

Calgar
22-06-2005, 08:46
In the Necron army book there is stated something about Power weapons beeing a perfect weapon against the necrons because when ,say, a power fist strikes an Immortal the energy released dastroys or stops the teleportation mechanism of the necron.

gunhed
22-06-2005, 08:54
No, the article featured the limited release of the "Necron table"

You wouldn't happen to know which issue of WD it was in, would you?

Karhedron
22-06-2005, 10:05
Would launching Exterminatus on a Tomb World **** them over? Without the world and base would they have anywhere to teleport to?
Please watch your language TenTailedCat, remember that this is supposed to be a family-friendly forum.

In answer to your question, yes, destroying a Tomb World with something like Exterminatus will obliterate it and all the Necrons based there. However the fluff suggests that the Deceiver (masquerading as Magos Egal) has infiltrated the AdMech and managed to consistently block an proposals to launch a co-ordinated campaign aimed at exterminating dormant Necron Tombworlds.

He has convinced the rest of the Admech that they must be studied and are too valuable to destroy. That means that only a few Tombworlds have been subject to Exterminatus by enlightened Inquisitors such as Firebrand.

TenTailedCat
22-06-2005, 10:17
Edited out my obscenity, sorry about that.

This deciever fellow, he needs a slap in the face... Can the star gods be completely killed? By conventional weapons/troops that is.

Skander
22-06-2005, 11:21
I doubt it. As far as it has been said, only Black Fortresses and maybe the planet killer are capable of destroying a CīTan.

Delicious Soy
22-06-2005, 12:48
Did the ones on the colonies die on a young age too?I'd say the damage had already been done to the Necrontyr before they invented space travel, generation under punishing exposure to radiation would have crippled their DNA.

Karhedron
22-06-2005, 12:58
Can the star gods be completely killed? By conventional weapons/troops that is.
The only known instances of C'tan being killed are when they are eaten by other C'tan. In fact they may not even be killed in this process, just absorbed.

Killing a C'tan is certainly beyond the capability of anything on the 40K table. At best they can rupture the Necrodermis. This will just annoy the C'tan inside who will head off to find a new body to inhabit. At Epic and BFG scales there are weapons that could conceivably kill a C'tan. C'tan react badly to Wraithcannon hits so larger versions might be able to kill them.

The theory behind the Blackstone Fortresses (or Talismans of Vaul to give them their original name) is that they are massive wraithcannons which could kill a C'tan. There are three ways which the Wraithcannon might be able to accomplish this.

1. The Talismans might simply be designed to hose the C'tan with massive blasts of Warp energy in an attempt to destroy them. Although C'tan can manipulate the laws of physics in the material universe, they are vulnerable to warp energy because it works on an entirely different set of principles.

2. The Talismans might be intended to work more like a D-Cannon and open a rip into the Warp through which the C'tan would be sucked. Trapped in a hostile environment it might well die.

3. It is known that when linked together, the Talismans had the power to destroy a star by sending it supernova. One idea is that the Talismans would be used against a C'tan while it is in its "natural" state and feeding on a star. By destroying the star, the C'tan might be destroyed in the process.

However it is important to remember that there is no evidence that a Blackstone has ever been fired on a C'tan. They were created by Vaul to fight the Dragon (the most powerful of the C'tan). The Eldar legend ends with Vaul setting out with the Talismans to fight the Dragon, there is no clue how the story ends. Since both the Talismans and the Dragon survived the War in Heaven, this would suggest the figth never took place. Perhaps the Dragon went into hibernation before Vaul could find it. Perhaps either Vaul or the Dragon won the fight but not decisively and the looser fled and hid.

Suffice it to say that the only thing known for sure that is able to kill a C'tan is another C'tan. Everything else is just speculation at this stage.

TenTailedCat
22-06-2005, 13:03
Thanks Karhedron... I can't help but think that GW have shot themselves in the foot somewhat with allowing such units on the battlefield. How long will it be before all armies have such monstrosities I wonder...?

Wiseman
22-06-2005, 13:37
maybe the short length of the necron lives wasnt due to their homeworld, but instead it was part of their DNA, that they age at a certain rate. And maybe a short life to them, was that of the normal humans life, but in comparison to the old ones, (who i imagine were immortal) was significantly shorter.

Karhedron
22-06-2005, 14:54
Thanks Karhedron... I can't help but think that GW have shot themselves in the foot somewhat with allowing such units on the battlefield. How long will it be before all armies have such monstrosities I wonder...?
I agree, it is a common complaint. The trouble is that the 40K depiction of the C'tan does not match up with their god-like fluff. That is the reason why there have never been rules written for the Primarchs, because with so much fluff about their powers it would be impossible to have a balanced and yet realistic depiction on the tabletop.

In Epic C'tan are represented as War machines and have a similar level of killing power as a small titan. That is probably closer to where they should be. At the end of the day, C'tan have no more place on the 40K tabletop than the Chaos gods do. I think that GW realised this as plans to release the Outsider in late 2003 mysteriously navished from their schedule.

As to other armies having monstrous units to lead them, Eldar and Chaos have greater daemons already as part of their fluff and Nids have monstrous creatures which pretty much replace tanks. Hopefully GW have realised their mistake and will not suddenly introduce new gribblies.

x-esiv-4c
22-06-2005, 17:27
I agree, it is a common complaint. The trouble is that the 40K depiction of the C'tan does not match up with their god-like fluff.

I totally agree. I've seen a swarm of 'stealers take down the night bringer or a decent volley from a devastator squad in one turn!

Nazguire
24-06-2005, 10:02
In the Necron army book there is stated something about Power weapons beeing a perfect weapon against the necrons because when ,say, a power fist strikes an Immortal the energy released dastroys or stops the teleportation mechanism of the necron.



Gah?!? Where be this hidden? I haven't heard of this before! :eek:

TenTailedCat
24-06-2005, 10:09
Oooooh, juicy annihilation goodness... Time to load up on power weapons and make the Necrontyr extinct.

Barbarossa
24-06-2005, 10:29
Vortex Grenades should work fairly good as well.

Nazguire
24-06-2005, 10:33
Vortex Grenades should work fairly good as well.


The question is, do Vortex Grenades still exist in the background anymore? And can someone please give me the reasoning behind the power weapon=pwn4g3 of Necrons?

Typheron
24-06-2005, 12:25
they still exist they have just become even more rare, and even then vortex missles are still in the fluff and could be used to do the same thing.

the thing is that a vortex grenade would certainly suck in the necrodemis but (and this is based on my theory that the necrodemis is simply a puppet having its strings puilled by the c'tan) would it suck in the C'tan itself?



And can someone please give me the reasoning behind the power weapon=pwn4g3 of Necrons?


ive heard of no direct fluff on this at all, perhaps its just a referance to what happens when any very large wepon hits a necron such as a p.fist or a LC. Vapes or trashes it very badly.

Zheardok
17-03-2006, 01:05
I think they just dis-appear into thin air.

Gen_eV
17-03-2006, 03:34
I've definitely heard that theory about the necrons constantly being called by the tomb-world and having to actively resist to stay "in the field". Therefore, as soon as they're sufficiently damaged, they can't resist teleportation, and get yoinked back home.

Therefore if aNecron was 'fisted, 'noughted or Wailing Doomed, it would actually teleport back the instant it was so damaged it couldn't resist, going 'poof!' into thin air before the weapon couuld seriously wreck the chassis enough to kill the little necrontyr inside.

Of course, an almost dead-on hit by a Demolition cannon would wipe out the necron near-instantly, thus causing utter destruction without chance to teleport. Have to say almost dead-on there, as the impact could trigger teleportation a moment before the explosion of the shell causes all the killy death.

C. Langana
17-03-2006, 04:03
The Necrontyr wanted to become older so bad...why wouldnt they just migrate to the colonies?
Sheer bloody mindedness we're talking about a race who are quite happy with with the notion of 'sterilising' the galaxy, so I think they'd just brazen things out.

Vader266
17-01-2008, 19:26
To understand the Necron phase out ideas, you need to think in real terms. If a soldier today was shot, a field Medic would tend to him. This medic represents the on-board self repair systems that come on every Necron. If the wound is deemed too grevious or the soldier takes a turn for the worse (infected wound etc.) He gets carted to a proper hospital and treated there. This is what happens when a Necron disappears. It gets teleported back to the Tomb World it came from, and repaired with Scarabs. The Necrons also won't run out of spare bits, because they can make more.

When an entire army phases out, that is a different thing entirely. The Tomb World rules that the battle is not going well, so recalls the Necrons to regroup for another attack later. It is a rigid 25% because of the "program" embedded in the Necrons. Or GW just felt like it. One or the other.

Brother Siccarius
17-01-2008, 23:04
So one can assume that a Necron victory is inevitable, if totally destroying even one Necron would take the combined fire power of a few tanks then I don't see what hope the Imperium (or any other race) actually has. Would launching Exterminatus on a Tomb World **** them over? Without the world and base would they have anywhere to teleport to?

Tomb Worlds are usually situated on dead worlds, Imperium cares less about dead worlds, sounds like a perfect opportunity to bust the crust of the world and see if they can salvage minerals from the core.

Kandarin
18-01-2008, 07:00
Tomb Worlds are usually situated on dead worlds, Imperium cares less about dead worlds, sounds like a perfect opportunity to bust the crust of the world and see if they can salvage minerals from the core.

It's not so much that the Imperium doesn't care about dead worlds. There are simply too many dead worlds to survey. Counting planets, moons, trans-Neptunean objects, and so forth, our system alone has over a hundred dead worlds. Combing them would take vast resources and a long period of time. Expand that to a galaxy with untold millions of star systems that support planets and you can see the futility of hunting down all the Tomb Worlds.

On a related note, the Necrons are usually located on dead worlds not because they prefer dead worlds for some bizarre thematic reasn, but because dead worlds are a staggringly vast majority of all worlds in the galaxy. Unlike most races, the Necrons didn't consider 'capacity to support biological life' as one of their criteria when scoping out a world for colonization. Their bases are on dead worlds because for the most part, that's what there is.